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Crowfall: No healing... be ready for zerging or get zerged
Copperfield
Member RarePosts: 654
in Crowfall
I truely dont get it..
MMORPG pvp game with no healing.. will this end up like GW2 zerg festing?
Why do companies keep moving this direction were the healing classes are removed..
It totally destroys teamplay aspect of any mmorpg
Gw2 already destroyed his teamplay aswell.. crowfall will go the same direction
Camelot unchained remains on top of the list..
MMORPG pvp game with no healing.. will this end up like GW2 zerg festing?
Why do companies keep moving this direction were the healing classes are removed..
It totally destroys teamplay aspect of any mmorpg
Gw2 already destroyed his teamplay aswell.. crowfall will go the same direction
Camelot unchained remains on top of the list..
Comments
I think the lack of proper support classes such as strong crowd controllers is the real cause of zerging, in DAOC when a Sorc could AOE Mezz 20 people and freeze them dead it was a big incentive to spread out a bit and make sure you weren't all caught in the snare.
No matter what you do, there will always be zerging, at the end of the day it's a valid tactic and if your side has the numbers, might as well use them to your advantage.
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Kinda sad if you can not think outside the easy 'tank-Dps-healer' setups.
I LOVE to pick on zergs solo in bunker builds or quick gank&spank builds. Pick a target, kill them and nothing the 50+ can do about it.
As for your Camelot Unchained promo: the game isn't even Live yet or has proven it's worth.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
In fact, it might even be the opposite, especially if area of effect heals are availble. The zerg can then sustain itself longer.
Zerging in GW2 PvE is caused by the fact that there are no reliable means to keep or influence mob aggro in many cases. Plus, it simply is the most effective tactic to DPS everything as much as possible while dodging in that game.
As far as PvP goes, zerging is caused by people not knowing what they're doing, as always. There were never zergs that could not be broken.
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You can constantly heal yourself or other people or you can conserve you hitpoints as you fight, you will be forced to use different tactics here since you can't take too much hits but it honestly feels like this will mean people will try to sneak attack other players instead of zerging them because if you have a zerg the opponents will very soon have one as well and here your zerg will run out of steam pretty fast since you just can't heal and continue to run around killing everything.
If you want mechanics against zerging you will need to reward people for attacking opponents with the same or more power then you will give out less loot and XP to people who gang up on others, not increase the healing power of players.
ESO have far more healing than GW2 but both have huge zergs, that is because it is the fastest way to kill many opponents which means you get more rewards. Now, if playing in small teams or by yourself is more rewarding people will do that.
Getting players to think more about formations, holding lines, flanking etc probably needs mechanics like body blocking, friendly fire, terrain/positioning modifiers (eg longer range from elevation, hills impacting player speed, forests providing cover, etc), well thought out respawn options etc.
By removing healing for a mmorpg.. all what is left aeo spamm fest. and or dps
groupplay is completely destroyed
It doesn't magically remove group play either.
Stop just heaving words from your fingers and back up what you're saying with some supporting facts or examples.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The reason you end up with bad designs is >>>PVP
Once you introduce pvp,there needs to be balance if not it will suck bad.Healing does not offer balance it creates lopsided combat.NO DAOC was NOT good combat,that idea is ridiculous.Crowd control as done in these games is FAKE looks unrealistic.
I do not see the intrigue behind rpg's and pvp,it will never be done well,it will always bring about spamming and zerging.Being able to CC a whole pile of players does not fix the problem it creates a new dumb idea.
pvp=player versus player NOT player versus MANY players.There is ONLY one way to focus good quality player versus player and that is in a fps with a good arena setting.PVP needs a good map layout,various weapon/attack choices,zaxis,hot points,healing,cover,escape routes and mmorpg's cannot offer these.
I could post videos of incredible skillful pvp but most would just turn a blind eye,they want to believe DCUO was a great pvp game,they want to believe rpg's can have great pvp,well they can't.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Crowd Control support (CC people)
Terrain Management support controlling the flow of combat via changing the surroundings (Creating walls, pillars, slow fields and so on) (League of Legend Trundel/Anivia and so on)
Buffer (Defences buff offence buffing and so on)
Damage prevention (Creates shields on player to block dmg for duration or reduce it)
PvP tank (Think Braum in League of legends pops a shield that redirects all projectiles to him instead of people behind him)
Doesnt mean there no room for healer class (aka soraka for League) however unlike in say WoW or what not where healing is balanced around PvE having to heal rediculous amount of damage continously its not the case in a game more based around a moba style of combat imo so there alwyas a possibility to see healers in the game but not to the point of say in WoW
and so on i spose the best way to look at things is how things work in the typical MOBA atm seems to be alot of what the dev are going for but in a MMO settings, seeing all classes get same skills but loads of variety of classes i suspect just like MOBA they be adding more on a regular bases to a degree. Think of campaings as month long league matches with muiltipul factions and player polotics. Even in league u sometime see 2 players 2v5ing a team successful when thing play out well for them.
Any game that has player looting will always bring rise to zergs because people want to protect there shit and they do that by numbers even if there loosing a fight there less chance of them to loose there stuff because the chance of 100 people being wiped completely compared to say 10 people wiping is alot largers of them loosing crap. People just dont like to loose things unfortunately.
I personally prefer a game with healer-roles, or at least heavy support-roles. They add another layer to the game and its combat, often adding to its dynamics. They, if done right, can add complexity and encourage more strategic play by extending a combat scenario between two or more groups of players. They help encourage groups to play more in sync with eachother, to play more as team with people having roles to fulfill and eventually master.
CF not having healers is not gamebreaking to me, but chances are I will miss that functionality/role. Hopefully it doesn't take away much in terms of the complexity and strategic importance in pvp combat. Time will tell I guess!
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The presence or absence of healers is not what determines if group play is "destroyed".
Players will play use the easiest tactics with good rewards. And if zerging is a fast way to take down many enemies and get much loot it will be the standard tactics of most of the players.
It is just bad risk Vs reward rate. Trinity have nothing to do with it. If it rewards better with 10 minutes working in a small team than 10 minutes in a zerg then players will work in small teams.
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Get over it already.
Preserving your strenght and avoiding getting hit can be just as fun as someone spamming heals on you. But of course, you can't blame the healer for when you die that way.
There was even talk at one time of DAOC going up to 10 man groups, in order to be more inclusive of some of the newer classes they added so the older ones wouldn't be excluded, but never went forward.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is no Q for bg's or arena or raids or dungeons here. You only pvp full time here except if you are in the starting area. But again that starting area as no dungeon, no raids, no nothing, except mobs to let you practice, your castle etc. to place your spoils into it. But even the crafting mats is gathered by going into the pvp maps ( Campaign Worlds ) only not the starting area.
You guys should read a bit more about the game : https://crowfall.com/#/about-the-game
It explains lot's of things. And why there is no healer per say.