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Player Population At It's Lowest Since 2008

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,608
    h0urg1ass said:
    Originally posted by Mosseman
    Griefing is against the rules in EVE. Not sure why you think it's a griefers game.

    If that was true, then CODE wouldn't exist.  They are an alliance whose sole reason for existence is to grief high sec players.

    Not only that, but CCP recently gave them a helping hand by declaring that reshipping in high sec with a criminal timer is not illegal. They stage a bunch of ships in space and then chain gank players in the same system.  That's about as textbook as griefing gets.

    EVE absolutely, 100% caters to the "Be the Bad Guy" philosophy.

    This guy tells the truth! 

    The game is a cesspool of the worst individuals in online gaming. It's a hollow and boring game that breeds a culture of grief, scams and betrayal actively supported by a developer that has the attention span of a 6 year old and has NEVER finished or fixed any of it's "expansions".

    There is nothing "hardcore" about it. I have played it out of curiosity on and off for a couple of years (85m sp). The game requires no skill. There are no fair or fun fights. It's a spreadsheet game and the fights are exactly like that. You only ever fight when you know you win.

    It's a game for cowards and antisocial assholes.
    Well, except there's not a lot of truth to either of your posts.

    First, Griefing would be when players are able to pin another player down with him or her unable to avoid it or get away, rarely is this the case in EVE.  You almost can't lose a ship if you take proper precautions, make sure you have scouts in nearby systems, don't fly through known gate camps, keep your eyes on local at all times, no afk/unattentive mining or ratting, use travel fits when appropriate and necessary and never, ever use autopilot unless you don't mind losing what you are flying.

    In the case of CODE, I've managed to never be killed by them in hi sec, because I've noticed when they are about, and taken appropriate action when they showed up in my system.  Also, I fly Skiffs fitted for defense, not Hulks fitted for yield, so they rarely find me an attractive target.

    As for the cesspool part, while it does permit real "villains" to exist, it also breed great good among players, and I find EVE to be one of the most social games out there.  Last evening we had an enemy player in our system looking to gank miners.  He noticed I had been a member of his corp back in 2008, so we had a short chat, caught up on events of the past 8 years, and then he went on his way.  While he said they normally never killed ex members, I didn't bother to undock, to test his good will, EVE just isn't that sort of game.

    You said people only fight when they know they can win.  Not quite correct, they only should fight when they think they can win, and sometimes they grossly miscalculate, hence so many ships are killed in very large fights.  My alliance sent a fleet out the other day to attack another, and things were going pretty well until 20 Dreadnaughts hot dropped in, tide turned, we got slaughtered, yet fun was had by all who took it in the right spirit.

    I actually never fight, my killboards are upside down, I'm a sheep who runs and does it pretty well, but losses still happen (death by recliner being one of my worst).  I don't mind people trying to kill me, all part of the game, and in almost every loss, I made a mistake that could have been avoided, and some people are quite good at this, one corpmate of mine plays regularly but hasn't had a ship loss in 2 years. 

    EVE is a game where you control your destiny, and if you find yourself being "griefed" or killed regularly, you are definitely doing something wrong.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Quazal.A said:

    As a 'vet' it is concerning the drop the numbers, but been trying to discuss this in game.

    Firstly i think the problem arrived from the changes from the 2 a year, to the monthly, this change has not garnered any interest, in the past the coming weeks and post weeks of patch day numbers spiked, in any mmo i have played you always see numbers arise around patch time.

    When they changed to monthly they removed this 'buzz' and because the changes are only smal lincrements we are no longer seeing some nice new things, whilst the game makers will say we are still getting the same changes its just smaller steps are not noticed.

    Then, can we honestly say across any MMO numbers are increasing long term, the only games that can say this tend to be MOBA & FPS  - Everything else is suffering. 

    There are some serious problems in game where ccp have / are driving out some of the older players, the dumbing down hasnt bought in anything like the numbers the game used to bring in, of course at some point you will have found any likely player who was interested in this type of game has either played or heard of it.

    We also have things going on in game that (see post above) make the game out to be some hell-hole for A888holes where as any player of a minimum life in game will tell you isnt the case, however, with the likes of Code & goons running amock in highsec this furhter reduces the PvE element that ANY/ALL MMO require, like it or not even full 100% pvp games players like to PvE and they have to be catered for.

    The problem above is ccaused by the COMPLETE stagnation of nullsec, null is now basically one big nap-fest, in days gone by you had 2-3 main powerblocs that wouldn't agree to any naps, nowadays this happens, consider what is happening with Code & Goons, was nullsec a busy hive of pvp we woudn't see them anything like as much in hgihsec but also the players who got bored of ratting/plexing etc and just want to pvp would come back.

    Sadly a joke around the game "EvE is dying" has never looked so likely, is it a slow painful death, or will it be put to bed who knows but unless CCP do something drastic the only end game will be "pull the plug" or just leave a game with 10-15k players playing. Either way this doesn't fill me with joy, personally speaking once EvE dies then my time in ANY MMO will be over, this is the only game of the genre that keeps me playing. 

    I am not so sure that any MMO is slowly growing right at the moment but at least most get a kick up in numbers whenever they release an expansion. Expansions and major patches do attract people and get publicity.

    In Eves case they should have gone to a single huge update each year instead of a small tweak each month. I think that would have created more publicity and gotten some people back at least temporary as well as attracted some new players, as expansions tend to do for many other games.

    But Eve is 12 years old, it is amazing it still have as many players as it still does, I think Wow and Lineage is the only ones around that age that still have more players.

    But it is a pity CCP put so much work into Dust instead of getting out WoDO and putting in some more love for Eve. Long term that was incredible bad since they eventually will need a new MMO to earn money.
  • YalexyYalexy Member UncommonPosts: 1,058
    So what if EvE loses subscriptions?

    Back in 2005 when I started playing there was what? 50k or 60k. Back in these days the game wasn't feeling empty, there was allways a war going on somewhere and CCP didn't loose money.

    EvE can shrink to 250k subs without problems and still be profitable for CCP. 250k subs can easily populate New Eden without it feeling empty, and those numbers are also big enough to wage huge wars and fights with thousands involved.

    So yeah, I'm not seeing any problems there. I would start worrying, if EvE would dip below the 250k mark, but the currently estimated 350k are far from it.
  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203

    http://n4g.com/news/1751076/eve-onlines-player-population-at-its-lowest-since-2008

     

    How do the vets with their enormous time and money investments in Eve Online feel with the direction the game is going? I played for 5 years, and quit after the Incarna captains quarters and microtransactions for cosmetic items. I knew CCP had switched it's business model to milking the remaining playerbase of a game on it's last leg. 

     

    I still read all the patch notes and have been waiting for a reason to come back. But all I see are these UI updates nobody wants and small changes and fixes. CCP must have a much smaller dev team now because I remember them capable of producing content faster when I was still playing.

     

    They didn't even talk about project legion at the last fanfest. Not even a small update. Are the abandoning that like they did with walking in stations and world of darkness? If they integrated FPS combat into Eve with Project Legion it could bring many players back but they choose not to even talk about it?

    CCP betrayed it's playerbase on multiple occasions. CCP disrespected its playerbase on multiple occasions. CCP acted in a very biased fashion towards first BoB and then Goons. CCP failed to police its game and or correct deficiencies in power creep / bugs.

    These things are the primary reasons EvE failed to grow. While some can pretend a lack of growth is no big deal it is in any commercial product. Negative growth is worse obviously.
  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,765
    edited August 2015
    CCP rectified with the player base and did a darn good job of working on the space game and working on the UI since the protest and the other issues mentioned. However, I am still waiting for PI to be completed :)  On the flip side- because of  CCP's track record prior to Dust514 and WoD people held them to a higher standard. Because of this, CCP will always have a uphill battle when working or releasing their games. Eve is still a damn good game. 

    In terms of Project Legion aka Dust 514. If CCP blows off the PC base I can assume that will be a major hit for them. CCP's lack of communication on the status of PL is pretty bad. 


  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203
    CCP didn't rectify with the playerbase. The protest was not the playerbase it was a small segment of the playerbase (alliances). One alliance email - go shoot the indestructible monument because I don't like it and cancel your accounts for a month. 

    The majority of the playerbase wasn't involved.

    Since then and before then they've  worked tirelessly with subscriptions to benefit that same small group while largely ignoring everyone else.

    I have played EvE from 2003 and I know what EvE was meant to be and what it was sold as when it launched. It was an awesome game based on a gritty harsh universe. CCP allowed it to go from gritty and harsh to Somethingaweful in space. It's why the majority of us vets left.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,824
    Some say there's no griefing in EvE then proceed to give information on how to avoid griefing in EvE.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • user547user547 Member UncommonPosts: 150
    The Developer said that EVE is not a game for everyone.  It is rapidly becoming a game for no one.
  • KurirKurir Member UncommonPosts: 244
    I left the Eve years ago and took my three accounts with me, CCP had a great game when it first released then it morphed into the POS that it is. I will never get as invested in a game as I had with Eve, frankly I look forward to the day the plug gets pulled.
  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 Member UncommonPosts: 890
    F0URTWENTY said: ...quit after the Incarna captains quarters and microtransactions for cosmetic items.
    Yeah that's when I quit too. I love EvE think it's the best MMO out there, but it's very time and effort intensive. A game you sink years into, and after Incarna and how it was handled, I just didn't have faith that CCP wouldn't make that investment of time and effort a waste.
  • BruhzaBruhza Member UncommonPosts: 391
    Kurir said:
    I left the Eve years ago and took my three accounts with me, CCP had a great game when it first released then it morphed into the POS that it is. I will never get as invested in a game as I had with Eve, frankly I look forward to the day the plug gets pulled.
    Or we could let people continue to enjoy it for what it is? Ah, my mistake, forgot where I was for a second. The magical lands of self-importance.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,608
    F0URTWENTY said: ...quit after the Incarna captains quarters and microtransactions for cosmetic items.
    Yeah that's when I quit too. I love EvE think it's the best MMO out there, but it's very time and effort intensive. A game you sink years into, and after Incarna and how it was handled, I just didn't have faith that CCP wouldn't make that investment of time and effort a waste.
    Yet, over 4 years has passed since Incarna went live, and EVE is still going strong.

    Sure, has lost some population, and CCP continues with some mis-steps (but then hindsight is 20-20) but overall the game is still very enjoyable to play and I definitely do it pretty casually, though of course some activities aren't for me. (like large scale fleet battles)


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Member UncommonPosts: 568
    edited October 2015
    EVE is NOT for new players.
    The long time existing player base will continue to have fun because they played the game back when it was new player friendly, i.e. at the beginning of the GREAT RACE.
    They made billions and it takes money to make money.
    New players need not apply as they are cannon fodder to the Old Guard.
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,228
    EVE is NOT for new players.
    The long time existing player base will continue to have fun because they played the game back when it was new player friendly, i.e. at the beginning of the GREAT RACE.
    They made billions and it takes money to make money.
    New players need not apply as they are cannon fodder to the Old Guard.
    EVE is very easy for new players.  As a member of Spectre Fleet, the game's leading NPSI community, we take in new players turn them into PVP'ers within weeks of them joining the game.  EVE University and Red vs Blue are also extremely receptive to new players, although RVB is a bit of a mess since Mangala quit the game a year ago.  

    For several years Brave Collective was also, as the name should point out, a very influential corp/alliance made of almost nothing but new players... until they imploded last month, which is really too bad.  Brave Newbie still exist if you want to be a Caldari Squid newbro.

    Not only that, but if you're resourceful and smart, then you can make billions of ISK in your first few months and then buy an older character that has more of the skills you want or need.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,608
    EVE is NOT for new players.
    The long time existing player base will continue to have fun because they played the game back when it was new player friendly, i.e. at the beginning of the GREAT RACE.
    They made billions and it takes money to make money.
    New players need not apply as they are cannon fodder to the Old Guard.
    I have to disagree, Brave  Newbies proved this argument wrong a few years ago, others continue to do so today. I'm in a null sec corp with many newer players (less than 4 years) and we're allied of course with some long time players.

    Still plenty of room for others to join in, primarily because many older players retire leaving room for new blood to establish themselves.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 739
    Kyleran said:
    EVE is NOT for new players.
    The long time existing player base will continue to have fun because they played the game back when it was new player friendly, i.e. at the beginning of the GREAT RACE.
    They made billions and it takes money to make money.
    New players need not apply as they are cannon fodder to the Old Guard.
    I have to disagree, Brave  Newbies proved this argument wrong a few years ago, others continue to do so today. I'm in a null sec corp with many newer players (less than 4 years) and we're allied of course with some long time players.

    Still plenty of room for others to join in, primarily because many older players retire leaving room for new blood to establish themselves.


    Hilarious, you consider people that have 4 year old characters "new"


    that proves a point, I think. . .
  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203
    One issue may be that CCP has to protect its alliance base. That means not changing the game too much in terms of making the game safer. 

    Unfortunately that hat alliance base is very keen on ganking / meta gaming which drives new players away. 

    Then you have natural attrition, the core gamers are getting older, have multiple accounts and when they quit CCP loses multiple subs. 

    Thats a lose lose scenario. Reduced new subs and multiple sub attrition.
  • Billr00Billr00 Member UncommonPosts: 135
    This game is completely enjoyable by a perfectly new player.. it has been proven time and time again .. why the same old song and dance people .. 

    and Ikono Ive been ganked one time in 3 years .. one time .. all the rest of the times Ive died I was out looking for a fight .. either PVE or PVP .. this game is not that restrictive for new players to find a niche and enjoy 

    the propaganda has to stop lol .. you guys might actually turn away someone who could love this game because you don't like it or don't like parts of the community or the mechanics .. 

    I will add this caveat .. it is a game that requires some study and mental acuity to succeed .. this is not WoW where button mashing and random LFG'ing will slowly elevate you to the top 
  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,618
    I love how people say it's not griefing because you are supposed to do 99 steps to ensure your safety at all times.
    It's like me saying I never get ganked in eve because I take the precaution of not playing it.
  • Panserbjorne39Panserbjorne39 Member UncommonPosts: 142
    Foomerang said:
    I love how people say it's not griefing because you are supposed to do 99 steps to ensure your safety at all times.
    It's like me saying I never get ganked in eve because I take the precaution of not playing it.
    More like five or six steps probably with step one being "not a retard". Second step: having situational awareness.Which is too much for most MMORPG'ers to hang with. Because they're retards. Retards who want to faceroll all content and have nothing scary that might hurt them. =( 
    If you get truly ganked in EVE it's your own fault and can be completely avoided most of the time. If someone does kill you in EVE, there are no hard feelings. You can start a private chat window with them and 9 times out of 10 you get a o/ and they're happy to tell you how you could've avoided getting killed.
    Not saying it's all roses and fluffy bunnies in EVE but it's just not nearly as bad as people make it seem.

  • TheOctagonTheOctagon Member UncommonPosts: 404
    edited October 2015
    Re-vamp the combat to something after 2012 and the game would be viable again. As it is now, its clunky and sucks. (Think Elite: Dangerous but within EVE.) I want to fly my ship. Not point and click.

    Also. the whole time lag thing kills it. I don't want to wait 10 minutes to find out I'm dead. I wanna be dead NOW!

  • RavensworthRavensworth Member UncommonPosts: 76
    Muke said:

    Vets quit at some point -can't play till old age- , new players find the game too difficult and compare it to a simple MMO like WoW, which is maxed out in 1 day without challenge or tactics. So they die, quit , uninstall and move on.
     

    There is your reason.

    Well no not really, I played eve for more than 5 years and I have played other non EVE mmo's. So lets look at just EVE because CCP wants EVE to be different.

    1. PVE has become less of PVE and more PVE but you may get ganked in the middle of it or you may get Jita burned. EVE players think the Burning of Jita was cool. From a players taking control of a game it was but for the guy who lost his Drake Blueprint it Really SUCKED!

    2. The longer you have played EVE the better you are at EVE. This is not a skill based game. It is a time based learning game. Yes people who are better gamers who have played the same length of time as me are better than me but Joe New guy has no chance in a fight against me in a frigate after  6 months in game. That's not learning curve that's game mechanics.

    3. EVE has a Ridiculously high learning curve and no official place to learn this. You MUST go to your corporation mates to learn. This makes EVE very difficult to learn as a solo player. A great number of Casual MMO players are solo gamers because of time commitments. 

    4.EVE is not a game for Solo Gamers. Period Freaking DOT.

    5. EVE Can be filled at times filled with power crazed L33t I am better than you A55hats. See Goonswarm from the old days.(not today but in the old days)

    6. CCP Promotes the Big Scams that have happened and they are allowed by the TOS. This can be cool because it makes EVE a more realistic game. But EVE is a GAME not real life and people who are scammed are pissed off.

    7. I can play other MMO's and be challenged for awhile like levelling up a new toon to get my gear etc and raiding with my friends. If I like this pattern or IP I may stay or find another MMO. The pattern is kind of Circular for me and I have about 5 games I do it with. But I only pay for them when I am playing them.
    EVE is different no matter what I do my gunnery doesn't get better no matter how many PVP kills I get it just matters how many months I pay for. If I added EVE to my Circle of Games I play I would have to continue paying for it or I would never catch back up with my friends. This is called PAY TO WIN. EVE has always been PAY TO WIN.

    8. EVE lets you Buy Someone Elses account. This is called Pay To Win!

    image
  • vadio123vadio123 Member UncommonPosts: 593
    its trend to all MMO not only eve or wow 
    Easy understand , you can blame Mobas(yes dota/lol)  

    People usual do excuses ""not have enough time anymore"" but still play 18h facebook chat! simulator 
    or CandyCrush or any other crapy mobile its rare people realy have no time 

    Most one realize dont want burn life in hardcore games like Eve or Mortal or any other sandbox with aproach realism
  • Minuszer0Minuszer0 Member UncommonPosts: 54
    edited October 2015
    Muke said:

    Vets quit at some point -can't play till old age- , new players find the game too difficult and compare it to a simple MMO like WoW, which is maxed out in 1 day without challenge or tactics. So they die, quit , uninstall and move on.
     

    There is your reason.

    Well no not really, I played eve for more than 5 years and I have played other non EVE mmo's. So lets look at just EVE because CCP wants EVE to be different.

    1. PVE has become less of PVE and more PVE but you may get ganked in the middle of it or you may get Jita burned. EVE players think the Burning of Jita was cool. From a players taking control of a game it was but for the guy who lost his Drake Blueprint it Really SUCKED!

    2. The longer you have played EVE the better you are at EVE. This is not a skill based game. It is a time based learning game. Yes people who are better gamers who have played the same length of time as me are better than me but Joe New guy has no chance in a fight against me in a frigate after  6 months in game. That's not learning curve that's game mechanics.

    3. EVE has a Ridiculously high learning curve and no official place to learn this. You MUST go to your corporation mates to learn. This makes EVE very difficult to learn as a solo player. A great number of Casual MMO players are solo gamers because of time commitments. 

    4.EVE is not a game for Solo Gamers. Period Freaking DOT.

    5. EVE Can be filled at times filled with power crazed L33t I am better than you A55hats. See Goonswarm from the old days.(not today but in the old days)

    6. CCP Promotes the Big Scams that have happened and they are allowed by the TOS. This can be cool because it makes EVE a more realistic game. But EVE is a GAME not real life and people who are scammed are pissed off.

    7. I can play other MMO's and be challenged for awhile like levelling up a new toon to get my gear etc and raiding with my friends. If I like this pattern or IP I may stay or find another MMO. The pattern is kind of Circular for me and I have about 5 games I do it with. But I only pay for them when I am playing them.
    EVE is different no matter what I do my gunnery doesn't get better no matter how many PVP kills I get it just matters how many months I pay for. If I added EVE to my Circle of Games I play I would have to continue paying for it or I would never catch back up with my friends. This is called PAY TO WIN. EVE has always been PAY TO WIN.

    8. EVE lets you Buy Someone Elses account. This is called Pay To Win!

    Most of this is fairly inaccurate.

    1.  Nothing new about this.  It has never not been this way.

    2.  This is almost entirely false.  The longer you've played Eve the more diverse you are, but there's a hard limit on the number of skill points that can be applied at any given time.  Engagement envelope is the single most important factor, and that's largely based on ship choice and fitting decisions - not SPs (at over 120 million, I most commonly solo PvP in T2-fit tech 1 frigates and the occasional T2 frigate.  Training a newb to 95% of my current efficacy in these ships would not take long at all). 

    3.  I'll give you the learning curve.  Problematically, this is part of why people believe 2 to be true.

    4.  Plenty of aspects of Eve work just fine solo.  You can't hold Sov, perhaps, but you also can't do at-level raids solo in other games.

    5.  Not really sure how this matters to the type of player you're largely talking about (Solo carebears). 

    6.  "I'm mad at the game because I did something stupid, bloobloobloo!"

    7+8.  See 2.  You don't have to "catch up" - the efficacy model simply does not work that way.  This is baggage that people bring with them from other games, where you "level up" and each subsequent level is objectively stronger than the last.  Every new Eve player thinks they need to "level up" from a frigate to a cruiser to a battleship, because that most closely approximates what they are used to.  Then they get into their battleship, and I come along in a frigate and reduce it to scrap for lulz.

    Really, the more salient contributing factors are likely:

    -It's now possible to effectively train alts on a single account, reducing much of the need for a second account for people who want a trained alt. 

    -Lots of butthurt about capital ship jump fatigue and sov changes.  Especially given that capital ship pilots are often specifically trained alts, the devaluation of capital ships has likely lead to some alts that are less frequently logged in or unsubbed entirely.
    Post edited by Minuszer0 on
  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Talonsin said:

    There are many reasons for this and one of them is the developers embracing of the marketing slogan "Be the Bad Guy".  Over the years empire space has gotten more and more dangerous which makes mining, trading, mission running and other non-pvp activities less appealing to players.  CCP continues to try and build PR by releasing stories of people losing vast amounts of real money in scams.  Who wants to play a game where everyone is looking to scam you?

    Bottom line, PVP focused games do not attract players like other games do.  If you look at DarkFall, Mortal Online, Archeage and any other MMO that focuses on PVP you find way less players than games that have PVP but only on request, such as WoW and TOR.  All CCP has to do is make empire space a little safer but they have this chip on their shoulder that their game has to be ruthless everywhere.  CCP Falcon said this:

    "Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.

    Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent."

     

    Eve wont die but as they continue to make the game more ruthless and encourage scamming, and other empire-based aggression, it will continue to lose population and become more of a niche game.  Sad really when you think this game was up to over 400k subscribers at one time.

    As I said, this in not the only reason for the decline.  Vets moving on to other games like Elite, high barrier to entry with the drastic learning curve, the normal summer slowdown and other factors are also a part of this issue.

     

    Good summery. I don't have a thing against being able to be killed in empire. But the game wasn't always so ruthless, either. The community got extremely toxic which I can see the fun in it for some. But it got way out of control which was supported by the developers.  It wasn't always that bad. Not rose tented glasses. Looking back when EnB closed down. Joined around the same time. It's CCP's game and I have no problems with their path. Respect for being different.  But it's a far cry from what I enjoy about it. PVE sucks balls. I like a good mix. I love space. I love naval warfare like CCP had.

    I don't trust random groups ever. Matter of fact I don't trust anyone in that game and that's tiresome, exhausting to be looking over your shoulder constantly. I trusted people that I moved to that game with but once everyone went their own ways that was it.  I started out in nulsec because of people that I trusted. Years later I was just flying my pve ships. Which I never lost a one. I had a loot pinata well worth what it would take to pop it and that wasn't much. Not because I couldn't but because I was a hard target when flying them. Insta docks / undocks.  insta gate jumps.  Not letting anyone in the same area as me. If I saw someone scan my mission down. I left. Never sat on jump gates in missions. It was tiresome to always be watching over my back. Being vulnerable to the point that if I talked in chat I might attract the wrong type of attention. So I never talked for the most part. I guess it felt more like a job rather than fun to me in the end.  I wouldn't have minded going into a large alliance as a grunt for fleet action.  But the process was stupid to say the least thanks to the meta and past events. I personally got tired of real time training. I wanted to speed my characters training up. I can now. Thanks to the character market but meh. 

    I enjoy reading about what happens in Eve sometimes. But I have no wish to play it anymore. A lot of it is the community the meta. the environment.  I get it. A large group of people like that sort of thing. Good. glad they got a developer who promotes it. It's just not for me.



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