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MMORPG.com : General : MMOFTW - The End or a New Beginning for Funcom?

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  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,183
    edited August 2015

    Look at SWG:CU ... community never asked for those changes and look at what happened.... Look at Vanguard SOH, anthoer arrognat selfish developer ignoring ciommunity requests.. game died... if one does not see the pattern , specially if they are a developer, they will ultimatly learn the hard way, no matte rhow long they have in the game industry, hence Funcom.
    SWG:CU happened because the game was failing, and this was an attempt to save it.

    Listening to the community is fine, but what is much more important is tracking/watching the community. It is only relevant to listen to what they are saying, as it relates to what is observed. More often than naught, most feedback is not useful, as it does not relate to actual, tangible behavior... and this is what counts.
     Every game was failing when WoW launched. Lineage 2 , Shadowbane, SWG , Asherons call.. ect ect. WoW caused the shift to casual friendly mmorpg's.

    Hard to track something that doesnt exist, I.E. a community....
    Actually, if you look at the CCU graphs at the time, WoW didnt really have much effect on the previous MMORPG's. The players that created the WoW userbase were not primarily from the other operating MMORPG's. This caused other companies to try to change their games to appeal to this new audience.... 


    Phry said:
    WoW shifted all the goal posts effectively, SWG wasn't failing, and that wasn't the reason for the CU and all the garbage that came with it, that was purely SOE trying to modify the game so that it could compete with WoW, which was of course, impossible, and the foolishness that followed was just continued poor management, just look at what happened with EQ2 developed around the same time, but after WoW, the game suffered from extreme identity crisis, and since then has continuously circled the drain, even going F2P didn't really help, if they could have just accepted that being a niche game was good enough instead of chasing WoW numbers, they would have been far more successful, and SWG would probably still be there today, poking fun at SW;TOR, even if the player base was no larger than the one in Eve Online. 
    You can check the posts made by Raph Koster, where he lays out the details. This didnt have anything to do with WoW.

    Link Added: http://www.raphkoster.com/2015/04/27/did-star-wars-galaxies-fail/
    Post edited by Superman0X on
  • User836User836 Member UncommonPosts: 117
    Scot said:
    I have no way apart from here of notifying the site that I can't use the forums anymore. Been like that for days now. I can use forum menus, but once in thread the page freezes and I have to close it with Task Manager. For some months now I have not been able to do PM's a message comes up saying Please Complete The Message Field. I cannot get rid of this box to actually type anything in. So this is the only way I can communicate to MMORPG.com my problem. Help!
    I got the page freeze as well when I used Internet Explorer, it doesn't happen with Firefox. So what I'm trying to say is try using another browser if you haven't already.
  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 441
    edited August 2015
    Funcom is guilty of poor execution and marketing. I read a number of comments here about poor development, etc. I could not disagree more. TSW has probably the best story in a MMO I have experienced; period. Much of the story was authored by Ragnar Tornquist who gave us Dreamfall among other things. The concept was unique and groundbreaking. The core mechanics of character progression were new and interesting but maybe too much of a departure for the player base? Conan was a mess at launch but became a much better game over time and remains profitable albeit at a smaller scale. Much of this really isn't a mystery. Funcom is a publicly traded company. Much of their investment went into their engine which was designed to be modular and skinnable. The idea was they would successfully launch TSW and then launch other games using the Dreamworks engine. The initial financial flop on TSW put and end to that idea. I remember being in both closed and open beta for TSW and the game engine being used for open beta was an older build. I thought to myself at the time. What are they thinking? The game looks a lot better than this? People are going to see this and make a judgement.... So yeah... Poor marketing.. If I had a dollar for everyone who told me. Hey I tied the TSW after it went BTP and told me in a surprised voice.. Hey, I really liked the game.... I'd be rich. All in all, very disappointing. This was a decent studio in need of better QC, better marketing. They were very guilty of innovation in the MMO space for good or ill and it looks like it cost them. For those happy to dance on their grave. Congratulations. Whenever this happens, it hurts our hobby.

    Seaspite
    Playing ESO on my X-Box


  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx Member UncommonPosts: 2,400
    I loved the secret world, it was just poorly executed. i really wish they didnt cut corners on that game.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,500
    edited August 2015
    Funcom did it to themselves. Arrogance lead them to where they are now. Never listening to a games community is the biggest downfall in any mmorpg. The communities pay the bills, and time after time Funcom ignored us. Well I guess they are learning the hard way, that without growing healthy communities, it cuts the chances of a games survival by 90%.

    They could've done 2 simple things to save Aoc, and many people posted countless times. They ignored the advice because, hey , they are funcom and they know everything. I will not shed a tear when this comapny closes, and it will be a hallmark for all mmorpgs to take their communities with genuine sincerity.
    Is it really as easy as just not listening to the community, or could it be possible that they just couldn't execute what was really needed? There is a difference and trust me, the community is not always correct.
    They really don't listen and communicate well. The community isn't always right, but they just suck at interaction and PR. For example, when AoC went F2P they had a big campaign inviting new players in but then wouldn't let them post to the forums or provide feedback. They were prickly and unfriendly to the new demographic they were trying to co-opt. There is a long history of that sort of blundering.

    I like their games and don't wish ill on them, but I do think they've made their own road with this.

    One problem I see with MMOs is that they cost so much to make and need to keep making millions annually to be considered viable by the publishers. Something along that line needs to change. No one wants to pay for and play a game they think will be closed down anytime soon.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

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  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,560
    They don't HAVE to cost tens of millions to make though. They can be made with a small dozen-person team, focused on iteration and fun, and become huge hits (TROVE).

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,500
    They don't HAVE to cost tens of millions to make though. They can be made with a small dozen-person team, focused on iteration and fun, and become huge hits (TROVE).
    I absolutely agree with you Bill. There is this big budget "rock star / Hollywood" culture ingrained in development studios. I would think the way going forward has to be more along the line of what you describe with TROVE. Smaller budgets, better efficiency, and focus with manageable scope and goals. Even for big art budget AAA projects I would think this sort of culture and mindset would be beneficial.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • NailzzzNailzzz Member UncommonPosts: 515
    edited August 2015
    Scot said:
    I have no way apart from here of notifying the site that I can't use the forums anymore. Been like that for days now. I can use forum menus, but once in thread the page freezes and I have to close it with Task Manager. For some months now I have not been able to do PM's a message comes up saying Please Complete The Message Field. I cannot get rid of this box to actually type anything in. So this is the only way I can communicate to MMORPG.com my problem. Help!
     I have no desire to derail the convo here, but i thought i would quickly address this. I am having the same problem when i try to access this from a different computer. I suspect it is because they only have Internet Explorer on it. It seems that the forum locks up IE now. Try a different browser. Good Luck.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,784
    Agree with Bill on this. There is a poorly thought believe that MMOs require a ton of money to make. This is just not the case. Server cost aside the art, mechanics, writing and sound can be done by a very small team. Getting everything right for a healthy player base seems to be the hard part.

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  • lobotarulobotaru Member UncommonPosts: 165
    I agree that TSW should be preserved somehow. It had issues, but I think those issues were the result of it trying new things and not having an established standard to draw from. It is definitely an interesting concept, although not my cup of tea.
  • lobotarulobotaru Member UncommonPosts: 165
    I'm stunned FUNCOM has lasted this long. The list of negative adjective I'm tempted to use to dscribe them and their business practices and inneptitude is exceptionally long. So...just a few : GOOD RIDDANCE ,THEY SHOULD HAVE LEFT THE MMOG INDUSTRY MUCH SOONER.
    I have one particular problem with your position, and that is all of the developers making MMORPGs for the last five years could have similarly poor things stated about them. You may dislike these companies, but without them the genre would be that much poorer than it is today. Hell, it very possibly would be dead without those publishers.
  • MitaraMitara Member UncommonPosts: 755
    They don't HAVE to cost tens of millions to make though. They can be made with a small dozen-person team, focused on iteration and fun, and become huge hits (TROVE).
    Could be worth an article to write about the actual costs of such an MMO. Currently we see several small team MMOs being made like Crowfall, Camelot Unchained and Project Gorgon. But how much is actually used?
  • giftedHorngiftedHorn Member UncommonPosts: 106
    For me the first thing a game has to be is fun to play, and Neverwinter is fun for me in a way no Funcom game ever was. But, they broke Neverwinter with Module 6.

    I will try Strongholds and see if it is recovered. I am skeptical. My feeling is, the game will not be back until Castle Never is back.
  • Fallen5Fallen5 Member UncommonPosts: 99
    wana give wildstar a try. miss awesome raids. wana see how they play. maybe get that old impossible to beet with top gear feeling back
  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    Keldor837 said:
    I honestly don't see Funcom being saved. None of their games have had a good track record. That's not to say they're "bad" or didn't make a profit at one point or another. But each one that was considered successful at launch, fizzled out quickly (AoC and Defiance). Anarchy Online is a long-running sci-fi MMO. But when it launched it was profitable, but not widely successful. After like, six years or so. They finally finished a tiny pass-over on the graphics to update the game....it's still archaic looking. Huge waste of time and resources there, and the failed investments with Age of Conan. As someone who does small investments....I would never risk my money on saving Funcom. Unless I was doing a buyout, stripping their workforce, and taking their IP's and either re-launching them after a rework (like FFXIV) or creating sequels within those IP's. In either case, I'd be using new programmers and management. I just don't think any of their IP's are worth all the time and investment.
    1. Wouldn't surprise me if the Norwegian government gave them some kind of funding, it has happened several times before. 2. Defiance is not Funcom's. 3. I don't know how it is today, but 3-4 years ago AO was still profitable, though not by much. 4. The Longest Journey was a great success when released, and have continued generating income for FC over several years. @Thebeasttt: P101 isn't interesting news for me, and neither for you, obviously. But personally I think it's great that less known and less popular games gets some coverage - in my book that's not a bad thing.
  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    *sigh*... Paragraphs removed when posting :(
  • Mr_PithMr_Pith Member UncommonPosts: 29
    edited August 2015
    I've grown tired of The Secret World to be honest and Issue #12 doesn't appeal to me. I think the currency conversion is a welcome addition especially for new people. I'm considering going back to Anarchy Online (an older Funcom game) so Funcom will still be getting my money even more since I have multiple accounts.

     I think The Secret World was a bit hyped in all aspects and still is. It's a slick MMO, and looks really good but the game mechanics and rotations fall short. End-game just becomes an extreme grind in all aspects but you can't really blame Funcom for that. It's the nature of the beast.

    A week ago I plugged in my external harddrive since I recorded all the cut-scenes, dialogues and more and watched cut-scenes for fun on the TV because I really like Ragnar Tornquist inspired writing and storytelling and I was really disappointed how thin the main story-line was and parts of it a rehash of old lore in a new format smashed together with a 1000 references from literature, popular culture and so on. Reminds me of the quote "To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."

    I can save myself time by just watching the rest on Youtube, all the cut-scenes and encounters. But one thing I do hope is that Funcom can find investors or whatever they have to do to pay of all the debts by the deadline.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,674
    Mr_Pith said:
    A week ago I plugged in my external harddrive since I recorded all the cut-scenes, dialogues and more and watched cut-scenes for fun on the TV because I really like Ragnar Tornquist inspired writing and storytelling and I was really disappointed how thin the main story-line was and parts of it a rehash of old lore in a new format smashed together with a 1000 references from literature, popular culture and so on. Reminds me of the quote "To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
    Yep, Ragnar is great :awesome:
    I must admit, that's a massive task... I too recorded my favourite ones, but not every cutscene, there are way too many.
  • Mr_PithMr_Pith Member UncommonPosts: 29
    Po_gg said:
    Mr_Pith said:
    A week ago I plugged in my external harddrive since I recorded all the cut-scenes, dialogues and more and watched cut-scenes for fun on the TV because I really like Ragnar Tornquist inspired writing and storytelling and I was really disappointed how thin the main story-line was and parts of it a rehash of old lore in a new format smashed together with a 1000 references from literature, popular culture and so on. Reminds me of the quote "To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
    Yep, Ragnar is great :awesome:
    I must admit, that's a massive task... I too recorded my favourite ones, but not every cutscene, there are way too many.
    I wouldn't say a massive task, but if I didn't religiously rename files and tag them with a meta-file for location, individuals, quests, etc after every gaming session it would have been a bit daunting going back and trying to organize everything.

    If you enjoy Ragnar and haven't read his Sci-Fi novel for an earlier MMO (AO), I strongly recommend it. For free here:

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/anarchy/frontend/files/CONTENT/download/documents/prophet_without_honour.pdf
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,674
    Mr_Pith said:

    If you enjoy Ragnar and haven't read his Sci-Fi novel for an earlier MMO (AO), I strongly recommend it. For free here:
    http://www.anarchy-online.com/anarchy/frontend/files/CONTENT/download/documents/prophet_without_honour.pdf
    Maybe it won't sounds creepy stalker-ish ( :lol: ) but of course I have it - with all the games, etc. Have even the AO animated series (I think probably from the site you linked, it has great AO materials)
  • Mr_PithMr_Pith Member UncommonPosts: 29
    edited August 2015
    Po_gg said:
    Mr_Pith said:

    If you enjoy Ragnar and haven't read his Sci-Fi novel for an earlier MMO (AO), I strongly recommend it. For free here:
    http://www.anarchy-online.com/anarchy/frontend/files/CONTENT/download/documents/prophet_without_honour.pdf
    Maybe it won't sounds creepy stalker-ish ( :lol: ) but of course I have it - with all the games, etc. Have even the AO animated series (I think probably from the site you linked, it has great AO materials)
    It was a great start to an animated series. It's a shame they didn't keep it up. I have it burnt on CD. :o I've downloaded/parsed everything from soundtracks to all the lore etc. Now if only Red Thread could release the next book in Dreamfall Chapters. :expressionless: 
  • CamthylionCamthylion Member UncommonPosts: 220
    I am sorry but Funcom has only made 1 okay video game, not great, not good, but just okay. Age of conan, but it fell short, and was a let down to all the fans. They have yet to prove they can make anything cutting edge or worth a grain of salt. I vote shut the company down and so good bye and good riddens.
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