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Player Population At It's Lowest Since 2008

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  • BroomyBroomy Member UncommonPosts: 486
    Originally posted by Talonsin

    There are many reasons for this and one of them is the developers embracing of the marketing slogan "Be the Bad Guy".  Over the years empire space has gotten more and more dangerous which makes mining, trading, mission running and other non-pvp activities less appealing to players.  CCP continues to try and build PR by releasing stories of people losing vast amounts of real money in scams.  Who wants to play a game where everyone is looking to scam you?

    Bottom line, PVP focused games do not attract players like other games do.  If you look at DarkFall, Mortal Online, Archeage and any other MMO that focuses on PVP you find way less players than games that have PVP but only on request, such as WoW and TOR.  All CCP has to do is make empire space a little safer but they have this chip on their shoulder that their game has to be ruthless everywhere.  CCP Falcon said this:

    "Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.

    Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent."

     

    Eve wont die but as they continue to make the game more ruthless and encourage scamming, and other empire-based aggression, it will continue to lose population and become more of a niche game.  Sad really when you think this game was up to over 400k subscribers at one time.

    As I said, this in not the only reason for the decline.  Vets moving on to other games like Elite, high barrier to entry with the drastic learning curve, the normal summer slowdown and other factors are also a part of this issue.

     

    Pretty much this.  A griefers game of about 10k-15k subs.  Very niche and a place where the elite can play with themselves....haha!

    Current Games: SWTOR, EVE Online

  • MossemanMosseman Member Posts: 10
    Griefing is against the rules in EVE. Not sure why you think it's a griefers game.
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,228
    Originally posted by Mosseman
    Griefing is against the rules in EVE. Not sure why you think it's a griefers game.

    If that was true, then CODE wouldn't exist.  They are an alliance whose sole reason for existence is to grief high sec players.

    Not only that, but CCP recently gave them a helping hand by declaring that reshipping in high sec with a criminal timer is not illegal. They stage a bunch of ships in space and then chain gank players in the same system.  That's about as textbook as griefing gets.

    EVE absolutely, 100% caters to the "Be the Bad Guy" philosophy.

  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,062
    in other news, a 12-year old MMO lost a few players.

    image

  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 841
    edited August 2015

    I played EVE from early Beta until summer of 2008 when I saw the writing on the wall and bailed on it.  I haven't been back since and no desire to.  I had good friends who continued to play, but all have stopped playing over the years.  I'm really surprised that this game is still alive.

    From release until early 2008, they had something for everyone to do and was enjoyable for probably 95% of the people playing it.  It was the 5% who weren't having any fun since their fun consisted of disrupting others who were trying to enjoy the game.  I remember all the crying they did about not having enough targets in low sec.  CCP listened to that 5% and you get what you have today.

    The game never had a huge following, but it didn't need one.  I loved it while I played it, but it's not something I would ever go back to.  It's a shell of what it once was and imo not for the better.

    Post edited by Gobstopper3D on

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • MossemanMosseman Member Posts: 10


    Originally posted by h0urg1ass
    If that was true, then CODE wouldn't exist.
    Griefers get banned quite regularly from EVE. If CODE. were a grifer corp, CCP would've destroyed them years ago.


    They are an alliance whose sole reason for existence is to grief high sec players.
    Griefing = shooting people now? Remember: griefing is the unintended exploitation of game mechanics to hamper the game play of other players against which, there is no effective counter.


    Not only that, but CCP recently gave them a helping hand by declaring that reshipping in high sec with a criminal timer is not illegal.
    Not really. They tried to implement the Bowhead as a way for players to move their personal fleet around, but as ever, there's always a clever PvP fan that's able to make good use of new features.


    They stage a bunch of ships in space and then chain gank players in the same system.  That's about as textbook as griefing gets.
    See above.


    EVE absolutely, 100% caters to the "Be the Bad Guy" philosophy.
    Not 100%, not zero either. Somewhere in the middle.
  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,376

    keep in mind guys, the pve crowd conciders "unwanted open pvp" griefing :)

    explains the comments of the last pages.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • MossemanMosseman Member Posts: 10

    Yeah, I kind of figured as much. You'd expect that there'd be fewer people that disliked PvP playing a PvP game. Oh, well. Scrubs gonna scrub.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,828
    Originally posted by Mosseman

     


    Originally posted by h0urg1ass
    If that was true, then CODE wouldn't exist.

    Griefers get banned quite regularly from EVE. If CODE. were a grifer corp, CCP would've destroyed them years ago.

     

     


    They are an alliance whose sole reason for existence is to grief high sec players.
    Griefing = shooting people now? Remember: griefing is the unintended exploitation of game mechanics to hamper the game play of other players against which, there is no effective counter.

     

     


    Not only that, but CCP recently gave them a helping hand by declaring that reshipping in high sec with a criminal timer is not illegal.
    Not really. They tried to implement the Bowhead as a way for players to move their personal fleet around, but as ever, there's always a clever PvP fan that's able to make good use of new features.

     

     


    They stage a bunch of ships in space and then chain gank players in the same system.  That's about as textbook as griefing gets.
    See above.

     

     


    EVE absolutely, 100% caters to the "Be the Bad Guy" philosophy.
    Not 100%, not zero either. Somewhere in the middle.

     

    Neither, its a sandbox game, whether you do something good or bad, is down to the player, ganking does happen in the game, but its a valid game mechanic, i recently lost a hulk to high sec gankers, it happens, just wrote it off as a loss, not like it takes long to get the things, i had a new one in place and mining within 30 mins, and as the gankers left their own wrecks behind, they contributed to my getting a new one, even better, for the next 25 days or so, i have kill rights on them, so i can hunt them down when they least expect it image

  • MossemanMosseman Member Posts: 10


    Originally posted by Phry
    for the next 25 days or so, i have kill rights on them, so i can hunt them down when they least expect it
    Oh, who's going to tell him?
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,828
    Originally posted by Mosseman

     


    Originally posted by Phry
    for the next 25 days or so, i have kill rights on them, so i can hunt them down when they least expect it

    Oh, who's going to tell him?

     

    Feb 2004 player... locator agents work, and, i am very very patient, and have a wide variety of pvp ships prefitted, one of my favourites is a vagabond, but, rarey need to use something other than my Wolf. Battleships are too slow generally, and i wouldnt use a marauder in PVP unless it was part of a defence fleet. Or alternatively, i could use a Rapier with ecm drones, or perhaps sit outside a station waiting for them in a SB or 3. image

  • MossemanMosseman Member Posts: 10


    Originally posted by Phry
    Feb 2004 player
    You're demonstrating a remarkable lack of knowledge regarding HiSec pirates for a 2004 player.


    locator agents work
    They're not your bottleneck.


    one of my favourites is a vagabond, but, rarey need to use something other than my Wolf.
    Neither are ideal for messing with pirates. You're better off with ECM boats, preferably T1, but inties also have their advantages.


    Battleships are too slow generally, and i wouldnt use a marauder in PVP unless it was part of a defence fleet.
    Smart move.


    Or alternatively, i could use a Rapier with ecm drones,
    Stick to solo-friendly ships.


    or perhaps sit outside a station waiting for them in a SB or 3.
    I took a deep breath through clenched teeth when I read that. That's not how you do it. That's not how you do it at all.
  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614
    Originally posted by Mosseman
    [Quote]2) Checking third party sites to be able to do anything is poor game design.[/quote]
    Excessive dependence on third party tools is bad design, I agree. However, the method I mentioned is one option for HiSec logistics without any other player support.

    [Quote]1) Subbing a second account to "scout ahead" like you suggest probably isn't practical for the majority of gamers.

    The mentality of most Eve players is just get another account to scout! or Buy a second account to train for a different kind of ship! That logic is unrealistic for players that aren't playing the game like its a second job. Some people just want to log in and have fun not have to log in a bunch of alts or do a bunch of research on third party sites to know where they can fly safely.

    This is why eve has problems retaining players and why it's in steady decline right now. It caters to only the most nerdy and serious players that want to play eve as a second job.[/quote]
    It's cute that you infer the use of additional accounts and go into a mini rant about their necessity when a much simpler option was available: friends. Have you considered that you could just ask a friend for help? "Hey corpies, anyone been through Uedama recently? Much CODE activity there atm?" Not that hard, is it?

    Well, I have been playing since beta, have the toons with closing to 200M sp to help me with having fun.

     

    That said....I like it from time to time to start a new character and build it from scratch, without (financial) help or any other help from my main toons/alliance etc.

    Getting a trial, do some missions, start station trading to see where I could go. Well....

    Let me say I HATE grinding, I get bored REALLY FAST. I did some research, cost me a few hours. (oh the boredom)

    Started station trading with my character, then logged off, went to play ARK: Survival Evolved.

    After the trial period was over I had enough ISK to plex me a month. That on a limited learning character.

    Since then I kept the account active, still paying with PLEX. I play mostly 30mins/day atm, TOTAL. That's on all accounts.

    I can tell you I have currently 5 accounts active, all paid with passive isk. Not a single penny goes to CCP. Fulltime 40hr/week job, family, + a very active social life. Plus I play other games.

     

    When I started back 12y ago I was struggling to get ISK, mining in a t1 industrial with 1 miner...45 minutes for 300.000 isk.

    The game has been made much more newb friendly ever since.

    I have a friend -who is a financial expert at my company- start playing this game. He looked at the market, liked it, had 4b after 2 months. And his wallet has been growing since.

     

    What I have been saying is: the comment "It caters to only the most nerdy and serious players that want to play eve as a second job" can be true. But all it comes down to is your ability to use your brain. Smart people gather fortunes in no time, while self entitled players that keep complaining and think that everything should be handed on a golden plate and are not willing to think ahead are the ones that keep on grinding ISK to replace lost ships and are still paying for subs with real money.

    And that has been the deal with EVE Online: the sky is the limit. The player is the limit, not the game.

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • MossemanMosseman Member Posts: 10


    Originally posted by Muke
    The player is the limit, not the game.
    QOTD
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,228
    Originally posted by Thane

    keep in mind guys, the pve crowd conciders "unwanted open pvp" griefing :)

    explains the comments of the last pages.

    I'm ranked in the top 2500 on Zkill and I was ranked in the top 50 for several months in a row this year.

    PVP with Spectre Fleet and my group of friends is 99% of my EVE activities.  I absolutely love to PVP.  If I was in EVE for the PVE, then I'd be one bored motherfucker, cause lets face it; EVE PVE is some of the worst in any MMORPG.

    CODE are still a greifer alliance that is helping kill EVE. Every new player lost to a CODE gank is a player lost permanently.  The people who stay with EVE, or keep returning to EVE are the players who last long enough to feel invested.  If you chain gank a new player in their venture for the first couple of days that they are getting started, then you can count them gone forever.

    Killing someone in high sec needs to be made far more difficult, but not impossible.  I agree that undocking is acknowledging that you can be shot non-consensually.  Like I said, PVP is what I'm here for afterall.

    However it needs to be much more difficult to do.  Difficult enough that someone would have to have a real grudge against another player or hope to profit far more than they lose.  Unfortunately killing someone in high sec is extremely easy and the "consequences" are a joke.  You get in a 2 mill isk Catalyst and gank a 50 million ISK Hulk, then fly your pod to another catalyst in space and do it again.  

    Ganking in high sec should be a trade-off, but all of the supposed trade-offs are false.  There aren't any true deterrents.  Sec status is not a deterrent, loss of a 2 million ISK catalyst is not a deterrent, being hunted or having a bounty is not a deterrent.  Most of CODE are ganking on alts anyhow, so who gives a shit if their alt catalyst ganking pilot has a kill right.  Even better if they have a bounty cause then you kill your alt on your main and profit.

    All of EVE should always be dangerous, however, the pendulum has swung too far in favor of the chain gankers.

  • UzidukeUziduke Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Its now safer to mission in NPC Null than it is in High Sec due to the gankers.

    Something Awful this way comes.

  • HowbadisbadHowbadisbad Member UncommonPosts: 453


    Originally posted by Uziduke
    Its now safer to mission in NPC Null than it is in High Sec due to the gankers.

    null has always been pretty safe outside of entry points

    Waiting for:
    The Repopulation
    Albion Online

  • MossemanMosseman Member Posts: 10
    I'm probably responding to a troll but what the hell, it's Christmas.

    -"CODE are still a greifer alliance that is helping kill EVE."

    If that were true. CCP would've banned them all years ago.

    -"Every new player lost to a CODE gank is a player lost permanently."

    Still sounding that broken bell, eh?
    http://i.imgur.com/a73MSTa.png

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5504221#post5504221

    -"The people who stay with EVE, or keep returning to EVE are the players who last long enough to feel invested."

    Source?

    -"If you chain gank a new player in their venture for the first couple of days that they are getting started, then you can count them gone forever."

    Who does this? Not CODE. apparently: https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99002775/

    -"Killing someone in high sec needs to be made far more difficult, but not impossible."

    Why?

    -"Unfortunately killing someone in high sec is extremely easy"

    Try it. Killing some random AFK idiot is a piece of cake. Try killing someone who knows how to survive even when people hunt them. Can't? Don't worry, that's not a comment on your PvP ability, people who actually *try* to defend themselves are damn hard to kill.

    -"and the "consequences" are a joke."

    Suicide gankers have no versatility in HiSec. Attempting to do anything else just leads to embarrassing lossmails. That's the consequence of being a suicide ganker.

    -"Ganking in high sec should be a trade-off, but all of the supposed trade-offs are false."

    Just because some people are willing to accept the consequences for their actions does not mean said consequences do not exist.

    -"Even better if they have a bounty cause then you kill your alt on your main and profit."

    Bounties were changed in December, 2012 to prevent precisely this abuse. Suicide gankers essentially claim free money however, by shooting each other after a gank bit before they get CONCORDed.
  • killkoolkillkool Member UncommonPosts: 83
    I have played eve 10 years with 3 characters. I was what you say a carebear. PVP did not interest me thing all though helping people gived me the stimulance. I am also some older player. Then came the change. The scammers, the allowing of players in your safe zone. They did not care if you mined 4 hours. There kick was it too destroy you, your ship  which you had mined for 3 months. Also in belt you had too watch if you did not attack first, because then you was target for there whole clan. Mostly they left over too a character which was only a minute online. Then they finish the job. Als in PVE missions they steal your loot and dropped an other box hoping you would steal. So sometimes you could even finish your missions. If picked it backed they killed your pve ship, which had carefully billed up again. Because a carebear could also mine in those mission some ore was expensive like omber in those times but a nerf and all that ended you finished only trit of plago in does missions. Also that would be mined because mining in belt became less and less safer. After they could find you in the missions my eve times where over. 

    Also when the hulk was nerved too the same ship and ming barge. The invesments of playing the game where gone
    I payed by credit card not by plex. Plex is something for younger generation.

    So most of the pvpers are plex players. The carebears which where the older ones where the real cash too eve. That has now extinct.
    Eve will run out of cash. Or they must make a little safer or more social.

    AK
  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,341
    killkool said:

    So most of the pvpers are plex players. The carebears which where the older ones where the real cash too eve. That has now extinct.
    Eve will run out of cash. Or they must make a little safer or more social.

    AK
    Sigh. Who PAID for the PLEX? PLEXdoes not enter the economy without someone paying something. So CCP get paid no matter how the account is paid for.
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    h0urg1ass said:
    Originally posted by Mosseman
    Griefing is against the rules in EVE. Not sure why you think it's a griefers game.

    If that was true, then CODE wouldn't exist.  They are an alliance whose sole reason for existence is to grief high sec players.

    Not only that, but CCP recently gave them a helping hand by declaring that reshipping in high sec with a criminal timer is not illegal. They stage a bunch of ships in space and then chain gank players in the same system.  That's about as textbook as griefing gets.

    EVE absolutely, 100% caters to the "Be the Bad Guy" philosophy.

    This guy tells the truth! 

    The game is a cesspool of the worst individuals in online gaming. It's a hollow and boring game that breeds a culture of grief, scams and betrayal actively supported by a developer that has the attention span of a 6 year old and has NEVER finished or fixed any of it's "expansions".

    There is nothing "hardcore" about it. I have played it out of curiosity on and off for a couple of years (85m sp). The game requires no skill. There are no fair or fun fights. It's a spreadsheet game and the fights are exactly like that. You only ever fight when you know you win.

    It's a game for cowards and antisocial assholes.
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,687
    MrSnuffles said:
    This guy tells the truth! 

    The game is a cesspool of the worst individuals in online gaming. It's a hollow and boring game that breeds a culture of grief, scams and betrayal actively supported by a developer that has the attention span of a 6 year old and has NEVER finished or fixed any of it's "expansions".

    There is nothing "hardcore" about it. I have played it out of curiosity on and off for a couple of years (85m sp). The game requires no skill. There are no fair or fun fights. It's a spreadsheet game and the fights are exactly like that. You only ever fight when you know you win.

    It's a game for cowards and antisocial assholes.
    What do you know about PVP? lol
    https://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=63368

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614
    edited August 2015



    There is nothing "hardcore" about it. I have played it out of curiosity on and off for a couple of years (85m sp). The game requires no skill. There are no fair or fun fights. It's a spreadsheet game and the fights are exactly like that. You only ever fight when you know you win.

    It's a game for cowards and antisocial assholes.

    Quote: "the game requires no skill"


    With that killboard history and you were not even in any remotely capable PVP corp in your EVE tenure you have nothing to say really if there is good pvp or bad pvp.  98 kills in a couple of years, I get that on a single good CTA night or single/small gang roam if the carebears and other PVPers are willing.

     (TU Brave Alliance o7 for feeding me during your Catch/Lowsec days, Minas and me say HI and GF)


    Quote: "You only ever fight when you know you win." 
    Seems you backed out of virtually every fight you could have been in with only 98 kills/couple years timespan.
    In fact, with 98 kills and 57! losses it seems you got pwned pretty often, if not all the time.
    So much for quote: " a game that requires no skill."

    I don't see a single 1 vs 1 fight/kill/loss, all were just basicly "fly in a 30+ roam pressing F1-kills and hope you don't get outnumbered "fights".

    Sorry, but you have absolutely NO credibility as EVE pvp is concerned. Simply as you have no PVP experience whatsoever in this game. My take is that you have been PVE-ing every day which in fact, is boring to many.





    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • HowbadisbadHowbadisbad Member UncommonPosts: 453
    h0urg1ass said:
    Originally posted by Mosseman
    Griefing is against the rules in EVE. Not sure why you think it's a griefers game.

    If that was true, then CODE wouldn't exist.  They are an alliance whose sole reason for existence is to grief high sec players.

    Not only that, but CCP recently gave them a helping hand by declaring that reshipping in high sec with a criminal timer is not illegal. They stage a bunch of ships in space and then chain gank players in the same system.  That's about as textbook as griefing gets.

    EVE absolutely, 100% caters to the "Be the Bad Guy" philosophy.



    It's a game for cowards and antisocial assholes.
    PVP is normally a very social endeavor (especially so in EVE) so this is wrong

    Waiting for:
    The Repopulation
    Albion Online

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Muke said:
    Quote: "the game requires no skill"

    With that killboard history and you were not even in any remotely capable PVP corp in your EVE tenure you have nothing to say really if there is good pvp or bad pvp.  98 kills in a couple of years, I get that on a single good CTA night or single/small gang roam if the carebears and other PVPers are willing.

     (TU Brave Alliance o7 for feeding me during your Catch/Lowsec days, Minas and me say HI and GF)


    Quote: "You only ever fight when you know you win." 
    Seems you backed out of virtually every fight you could have been in with only 98 kills/couple years timespan.
    In fact, with 98 kills and 57! losses it seems you got pwned pretty often, if not all the time.
    So much for quote: " a game that requires no skill."

    I don't see a single 1 vs 1 fight/kill/loss, all were just basicly "fly in a 30+ roam pressing F1-kills and hope you don't get outnumbered "fights".

    Sorry, but you have absolutely NO credibility as EVE pvp is concerned. Simply as you have no PVP experience whatsoever in this game. My take is that you have been PVE-ing every day which in fact, is boring to many.

    Thanks for making my point. You salty because you know i am right?
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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