VR in existing games should be rather simple....

Random_mage · August 2015

Good Day folks,

I have a cheap google cardboard sort of headset for my phone, I download some content, move my head, and it's like I'm seeing the content blow past my eyes. Virtual reality. How is this so much different then first person view in most video games?

Maybe there is something I'm missing, but beyond the difficulty of tying the accelerometer to the correct camera movement keys, aren't we already in a fully encomplassing world with a 360 degree view? If I look up, can the camera not look up? We were able to create incorporate 3d into existing titles, why not VR? I know it maybe the control scheme, and I'm sure, there are issues with hot bars and the like..

And why is this on the MMORPG forum? MMORPG's are the PERFECT place to bring in VR. What is more roleplaying than actually being in the space? Then actually looking around at your friends/strangers avatar and feeling 'presence'?

killion81 · August 2015

Wasting developer time and resources on something that will almost certainly not result in a profit is contrary to everything a business stands for. Once VR headsets are commonplace in homes across the globe, it will be a different story.

Random_mage · August 2015

killion81 said:

Wasting developer time and resources on something that will almost certainly not result in a profit is contrary to everything a business stands for. Once VR headsets are commonplace in homes across the globe, it will be a different story.

I disagree.
By adding a level of functionality to an existing game, it can cause the current player to continue playing, and to keep paying instead of moving to whatever game supports the newest tech.
Also, it shouldn't be that hard to add this functionality, thus maintaining the bottom line with player retention.

killion81 · August 2015

What percentage of the target market do you think has VR equipment? My guess is you are vastly overestimating the current market penetration. Maybe by 2020 there will be an adequate market to invest resources into, but it's going to take a while for users to adopt the technology and for hardware prices to drop to a range in which the average consumer feels comfortable purchasing the necessary hardware.

Random_mage · August 2015

killion81 said:

What percentage of the target market do you think has VR equipment? My guess is you are vastly overestimating the current market penetration. Maybe by 2020 there will be an adequate market to invest resources into, but it's going to take a while for users to adopt the technology and for hardware prices to drop to a range in which the average consumer feels comfortable purchasing the necessary hardware.

I can see your point of view, as I myself do not currently have anything other than something to hook to my phone, however, I'm talking about the logistics of implementing VR into existing games.
Also, please note that we aren't really talking about the average consumer here. Look at games with long standing player bases, they defy the 'average' consumer. They buy special mouses, special keyboards, anything to give themselves an edge or make their gaming experience more enjoyable. They buy 30" monitors... as far as I know.. or have heard, I don't think the Oculus rift will exceed $300, and it'll be another periferal that will enhance the gaming experience.

And I believe EVE has already done this thing.

Vrika · August 2015

There are already enough games supporting VR, that if VR headsets improve the game experience enough we'll see a lot of people starting to buy them and use them. If that happens, then we'll likely start seeing a lot of more games implementing VR.

On the other hand, as long as it doesn't happen it's not really useful to speculate too much what it would take to implement VR to more games. Those first few games are a testing ground, and at the moment VR are failing the test due to no VR headsets being commercially released yet. Hopefully we'll get commercially released headsets in the future so that the situations would change.

Wizardry · August 2015

The ONLY VR i want to see is when the gamer actually controls all movements decisions within himself and not on a keyboard mouse.
What VR is trying to sell us is just a weak form of added 3d video,we don't need that at all but i guess it works for them as being a cheap way to get into the market.

Ridelynn · August 2015

For games that support Stereoscopic First Person - yeah, it's not a far leap to get to VR. You need two slightly different images - one for each eye, and Stereoscopic does that.

But for games that don't have that support, or that have issues with flat 2D objects (think UI elements and chat boxes and such) - that presents a problem.

That being said, I'm a piss poor typer, and I still have to look at the keyboard occasionally. Combine that with movement (running around in a world) without really running, and I get motion sick fast. VR just isn't for me, but for those that it's for - more power to you.

Gazimoff · August 2015

Random_mage said:

Maybe there is something I'm missing, but beyond the difficulty of tying the accelerometer to the correct camera movement keys, aren't we already in a fully encomplassing world with a 360 degree view? If I look up, can the camera not look up? We were able to create incorporate 3d into existing titles, why not VR? I know it maybe the control scheme, and I'm sure, there are issues with hot bars and the like..

There is something you're missing.

Firstly, you need to run your game at a high enough framerate (90fps+), at a high enough resolution (720p minimum, twice). The high framerate is needed so that sudden shifts in viewpoint are quickly translated into what's shown on the screen, otherwise you have an input dissonance and become motion sick. This becomes especially apparent with prolonged gaming sessions (anything over 15 minutes).

Secondly, your control scheme needs to be tailored for an input device that can be used by feel alone. The average MMO requires mouse and keyboard, the latter of which isn't practical to use while obscured with a headset. Voice comms would need to be baked in from the start. Everything else would need to be accessible from the gamepad.

Thirdly, you need to ensure that your user interface is as uncluttered as possible. The average MMO has a large amount of information displayed on-screen, particularly with the large quantity of abilities, minimap, etc. You also need to ensure that these don't cause any scene dissonance, or you end up with the motion sickness problem again.

These are not easy problems to solve, and there's no commercial demand for it as consumer VR units are not yet on sale. As and when they are, you can expect that developers will take interest. But, in the short term at least, expect these to be isolated cases like EVE Valkyrie and Gunjack. The days of Sword Art Online are years away yet.

Zandil · August 2015

Rift the MMO released a very basic VR support some months back as a beta

Loke666 · August 2015

killion81 said:

Wasting developer time and resources on something that will almost certainly not result in a profit is contrary to everything a business stands for. Once VR headsets are commonplace in homes across the globe, it will be a different story.

That actually have happened and killed one of the best developers ever, Cinemaware. They believed that CD-roms were the future and plow all their money into CD-rom games instead of floppy disks. Sadly it was a few years too early and they went under due to it.

Now, just simply converting the screen to work with VR glasses ain't that hard and wont be much of a problem for larger games like Wow, GW2 and ESO. Making a game mainly for VR uses with those special handcontrolers is a very different matter, a game like that comming out just at the right moment will earn loads of cash but too early and it will flop.

We do remember Nintendos VR console, it was way too early and cost them a lot.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5022221/uploads/editor/kj/iniqg98k6m6m.jpg

Quizzical · August 2015

If you just want to make a game work with virtual reality, that's pretty easy to do so long as you're using recent enough APIs and have both the access and the ability to edit whatever you want. If you want to make a game work with virtual reality well enough to actually have a point, that's a different matter entirely.

Random_mage · August 2015

Loke666 said:

killion81 said:

Wasting developer time and resources on something that will almost certainly not result in a profit is contrary to everything a business stands for. Once VR headsets are commonplace in homes across the globe, it will be a different story.

That actually have happened and killed one of the best developers ever, Cinemaware. They believed that CD-roms were the future and plow all their money into CD-rom games instead of floppy disks. Sadly it was a few years too early and they went under due to it.

Now, just simply converting the screen to work with VR glasses ain't that hard and wont be much of a problem for larger games like Wow, GW2 and ESO. Making a game mainly for VR uses with those special handcontrolers is a very different matter, a game like that comming out just at the right moment will earn loads of cash but too early and it will flop.

We do remember Nintendos VR console, it was way too early and cost them a lot.

If you ever played Nintendos VR console, you'd remember that the graphics were WAY too 1985 (I know it was released in the 90's but it was a red mono chrome screen), and you'd remember that we have come a long way in graphics.

Also, if Im not mistaken, wasn't the virtual boy just a bunch panels at different distances from the eye?

But, that's besides the point..

Over this past week I've come to realize that it won't be that difficult to implement VR. There may be a couple of issues with interfaces, but not all games have a constant on screen skills bar. Nor would all games need to be in first person mode..

Vrika · August 2015

Gazimoff said:
Secondly, your control scheme needs to be tailored for an input device that can be used by feel alone. The average MMO requires mouse and keyboard, the latter of which isn't practical to use while obscured with a headset. Voice comms would need to be baked in from the start. Everything else would need to be accessible from the gamepad.

I don't think keyboard will be that large a problem while wearing VR headset. As long as the game gives you visual feedback on which key you've pressed, all it takes is some practice and you'll be able to use keyboard without even looking at it.

MMO gamers have practised far more ridiculous things than that.

kemono55 · August 2015

On paper, implementing VR in existing games is a trivial thing.

In reality, there are more things to consider than just adding another camera.
Such as effects or elements being rendered after 3D element, thus being "faked" onto the camera as a post process.
Not to mention the scale and speed is completely off by almost every game, which makes it feel "wrong" to play in VR.

So in practice VR only works if you build a game from the ground with the intention of VR or optional VR.

You should consider developing a few test project for VR then you would see all these time consuming extra task unfold.

edit: All this discussion about keyboard or controllers, is very secondary problem in VR,
and not worth mentioning before VR is implemented and working.

Gazimoff · August 2015

Vrika said:

Gazimoff said:
Secondly, your control scheme needs to be tailored for an input device that can be used by feel alone. The average MMO requires mouse and keyboard, the latter of which isn't practical to use while obscured with a headset. Voice comms would need to be baked in from the start. Everything else would need to be accessible from the gamepad.

I don't think keyboard will be that large a problem while wearing VR headset. As long as the game gives you visual feedback on which key you've pressed, all it takes is some practice and you'll be able to use keyboard without even looking at it.

MMO gamers have practised far more ridiculous things than that.

As someone who's got an Oculus DK2, and played several different games with it, I disagree. Additionally, when I've interviewed people working on VR games, they cite the controller as one of the vital parts to that sense of immersion.

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VR in existing games should be rather simple....

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VR in existing games should be rather simple....

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