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The real reason for FTP

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  • Four0SixFour0Six Member UncommonPosts: 1,175

    Fools.

    The real reason for FTP, is so the publisher can charge each and every consumer exactly what they are willing got pay. It is called a "Perfectly Price Discriminating" market. To some it is great, they pay for exactly what they want. But only because they are too short sighted and self centered to see that in this market there is no surplus. The producer gets to charge me nothing, but you $12, and someone else $100, all for the same thing.

     

    Again Fools.

     

    I will admit that it has been rough to have to take a stand and not play, because I think this pricing model is evil, but I'm doing OK.

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    Originally posted by Four0Six

    Fools.

    The real reason for FTP, is so the publisher can charge each and every consumer exactly what they are willing got pay. It is called a "Perfectly Price Discriminating" market. To some it is great, they pay for exactly what they want. But only because they are too short sighted and self centered to see that in this market there is no surplus. The producer gets to charge me nothing, but you $12, and someone else $100, all for the same thing.

     

    Again Fools.

     

    I will admit that it has been rough to have to take a stand and not play, because I think this pricing model is evil, but I'm doing OK.

    I am just curious. What do you think the publishers are doing with all of this money?

  • ArtificeVenatusArtificeVenatus Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    The real reason that game companies are going more and more to FTP isn't about what gamers really want. It's about economics. We've all heard that the middle class is disappearing, that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

    Here is a link to a map showing what's been happening to Chicago. And this is very much like many other big cities. (Look farther down for a time lapse map showing the change. http://www.rebootillinois.com/2014/04/03/uncategorized/mattdietrich/watch-chicagos-middle-class-disappear-amazing-map/3238/?utm_campaign=&utm_source=huffpo&utm_medium=partner

    This is not only about FTP though. It's also about the strong move towards games that play on smaller and smaller machines, all the way down to smartphones (the only thing some people can afford for their toys).

    The world is changing. I knew this was happening for years. But I always thought that the Powers-That-Be would change course before it's too late. They haven't changed though, and it is too late now I'm afraid, and this is our future. Big money, including gaming companies of course, didn't miss this either. The robot revolution in industry is sealing it, as jobs disappear and more and more welfare will be required.

    So the effort has shifted to games on smaller "stations" and FTP, while going after the wealthy that's consolidating at the top (the "Whales") as the source of income.

    Like it or not, that's where we've gone in gaming and where the future lies. Cash shops are here forever, free gaming is too for those left on the welfare programs, part time work, or sub paying jobs.

    Edit: I forgot to include a link about robots where our future lies.... http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

    FTP can be explained in this video :

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An

    It is disgusting what this video contains.

    FTP has been used to grab as much money as possible.

    FTP however does not need to be as we have thus far seen it implemented, hence the reason why I came up with at least a possible solution, through creating P2W Reduction Methods. Such a system has not yet been attempted, likely because no one has bothered to look at an mmo-mmorpg and it's systems in the manner that I have. The only mmorpg that I am aware of that has P2W Reduction Methods is EVE online, and even they likely did not consciously intend such an outcome.

     

    FTP at this point in time has multiple reasons to remain in place well into the future. Those include the playerbase, the revenue that it pulls in compared to subscription only, the saturation of the market, and other details surrounding those. The P2W Reduction Methods is a good step in the right direction. Hopefully, companies will take notice of why and how to implement such systems into their mmo-mmorpgs, at least to some extent.

     

     

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,785
    Originally posted by ArtificeVenatus
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    The real reason that game companies are going more and more to FTP isn't about what gamers really want. It's about economics. We've all heard that the middle class is disappearing, that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

    Here is a link to a map showing what's been happening to Chicago. And this is very much like many other big cities. (Look farther down for a time lapse map showing the change. http://www.rebootillinois.com/2014/04/03/uncategorized/mattdietrich/watch-chicagos-middle-class-disappear-amazing-map/3238/?utm_campaign=&utm_source=huffpo&utm_medium=partner

    This is not only about FTP though. It's also about the strong move towards games that play on smaller and smaller machines, all the way down to smartphones (the only thing some people can afford for their toys).

    The world is changing. I knew this was happening for years. But I always thought that the Powers-That-Be would change course before it's too late. They haven't changed though, and it is too late now I'm afraid, and this is our future. Big money, including gaming companies of course, didn't miss this either. The robot revolution in industry is sealing it, as jobs disappear and more and more welfare will be required.

    So the effort has shifted to games on smaller "stations" and FTP, while going after the wealthy that's consolidating at the top (the "Whales") as the source of income.

    Like it or not, that's where we've gone in gaming and where the future lies. Cash shops are here forever, free gaming is too for those left on the welfare programs, part time work, or sub paying jobs.

    Edit: I forgot to include a link about robots where our future lies.... http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

    FTP can be explained in this video :

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An

    It is disgusting what this video contains.

    FTP has been used to grab as much money as possible.

    FTP however does not need to be as we have thus far seen it implemented, hence the reason why I came up with at least a possible solution, through creating P2W Reduction Methods. Such a system has not yet been attempted, likely because no one has bothered to look at an mmo-mmorpg and it's systems in the manner that I have. The only mmorpg that I am aware of that has P2W Reduction Methods is EVE online, and even they likely did not consciously intend such an outcome.

     

    FTP at this point in time has multiple reasons to remain in place well into the future. Those include the playerbase, the revenue that it pulls in compared to subscription only, the saturation of the market, and other details surrounding those. The P2W Reduction Methods is a good step in the right direction. Hopefully, companies will take notice of why and how to implement such systems into their mmo-mmorpgs, at least to some extent.

     

     

    See, everyone forgets that in capitalism there are two sides of the story. It's not all about the seller. The buyer can make or break the seller. Because he doesn't have to buy. The idea that this FtP money grabbing system is what the buyers want doesn't fit right. But the idea that game companies want to put out crap for lower costs and buyers are stuck with crap and only the few (the Whales) pay money for it fits more into the scenario I have outlined than in any other.

    It's not any one thing though. Every explanation put forth as a reason for FtP is valid. But none of them alone is the whole picture. You have to look at the "four winds" and see which is the stronger to come to a conclusion. And the predominant things is that while we have all the other explanations, it's the "less money to play with" that has the strongest reasoning behind it to explain why such a mucked up revenue system wins out in an entire industry.

    And it's not just "less money to play with" for the buyers, but also for the sellers. The money just isn't there for great products from either end, investors or buyers. And the sellers (the producers) know it.

    Once upon a time....

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Originally posted by Superman0X
    Originally posted by Four0Six

    Fools.

    The real reason for FTP, is so the publisher can charge each and every consumer exactly what they are willing got pay. It is called a "Perfectly Price Discriminating" market. To some it is great, they pay for exactly what they want. But only because they are too short sighted and self centered to see that in this market there is no surplus. The producer gets to charge me nothing, but you $12, and someone else $100, all for the same thing.

     

    Again Fools.

     

    I will admit that it has been rough to have to take a stand and not play, because I think this pricing model is evil, but I'm doing OK.

    I am just curious. What do you think the publishers are doing with all of this money?

    Booze, Hookers and Blow of course. image

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    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I do not agree at all with the money concept.

    IMO it is strictly an end result of MANY poor low quality developers competing against each other.

    SOE was basically company that started the wave,they could no longer compete in the subscription market and imo gave up on it.Smedley stated he would run BOTH,but soon after realized how much spending was happening on his test servers that he figured it was a good idea period.

    What it does is get something out of players that would not play the game otherwise and get more than a locked in subscription could get.This basically allows them to compete in the open market  and grind money out in a sot of sneaky way relying on foolish spenders to make up the difference.

    If no for the f2p scam MOST of these games would not see the time of day and likely most of these devs would not even attempt it.However they have yet found one last gimmick and that is the incredible FREE money from gamer's.This newest idea is mind boggling at how many what i would call "dummies" are investing into games with ZERO investment return.They might get a game to play but guess what,we have had games to play for 30+ years so not like your FREE handouts make any difference.

    The difference was that devs had to compete in the past on merit,on game quality,now all these gimmicks allow every second rate developer to pop into the scene and FLOOD the market with crap.

    F2P is not a scam.

     

    You people here on this site need to come to the drastic and quick realization that your "opinions" here are in the minority across the gaming world.  Subscriptions were a product of an era in which hardly anyone had internet, server hosting fees were high and that online gaming was in it's infancy.  Now that all those things are gone it's time for you cro-magnum of the gaming sphere to come out of your caves and start debating what type of F2P model you want.  It would behoove you to start with something you're familiar with like...what sort of F2P model would allow "me" to spend $15 a month to acheieve the optimum gaming experience.

     

    The quicker you all realize you're not only in the minority but are wrong about F2P then the quicker we can all debate the more aspects of our beloved genre.

    Hook, Line and Sinker.  image

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,789
    The bottom line is that companies big and small are going to give you either what you want or what you are willing to SETTLE FOR. Some want what they consider to be a FREE game to play. Some want a game where they can purchase special items. They all are willing to SETTLE FOR something that may or may not be a total gaming experience. It almost never is a total experience for the "free" player. It is ONLY a total (sometimes) experience for the paying player. What the companies do is leave out portions of the game in order to have content that is purchasable. This excludes the "free" player and forces the paying player to pay MORE for a game they may have been paying for all along. Even if a player is paying a sub and there is a free component to the game, content is with-held in order to having things to sell in their store. At the same time, the paying player is also expected to pick up the costs for those free-loaders expecting a totally free game. All of this has made FTP unacceptable to me. I will not in any way support this model. I think many are beginning to see this as well.

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    We've all heard that the middle class is disappearing, that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

    We've all heard that, but it's not true.  How many poor people had smartphones 10 years ago?  How many rich people had smartphones 20 years ago?  For that matter, how many rich people had electricity at all 200 years ago?  The general trend over the last two centuries in the United States and many other places in the world has been all strata of society getting richer.  Sometimes the gap between rich and poor has widened and sometimes it has narrowed, but all have gotten steadily richer.

    F2P isn't a way to get more money out of the rich.  Rich people didn't get rich by squandering thousands of dollars on stupid stuff.  It's a way to get more money out of people period--some of them poor people who can't afford it.

    I provided a link that clearly shows it happening in Chicago. The entire world is suffering from unsustainable debt and growing unemployment as more proof. And there's free "Obamaphones" now, how long before those become smartphones just to keep the growing burden happy?

    Your link showed widening income inequality in the city of Chicago.  A more descriptive title would have been, "Watch Chicago's middle class flee to the suburbs".

    But more importantly, that only focuses on relative income, not absolute.  The relatively poor in America today have a lot of things that a few decades ago, only the rich could have afforded--or that didn't even exist at all.  That is getting wealthier in an absolute sense, not poorer.

    Twenty years ago, the poor weren't playing "free to play" online games.  The poor didn't have Internet access at all, and probably didn't have a computer, either.

    Yet those people are living from paycheck to paycheck with little to no room to spare if something goes wrong, brining them to ruin and bankruptsy or worse.  They are merely financing must haves while giving up must needs all while walking the razor's edge.  The standard of living has improved over time for Americans, but the poor still have less than the rich and less than the current standard of living.  On top of it all, the wealth gap has grown exponentially, exacerbating an already precarious problem.  The game becomes more and more stacked against the less fortunate, with greater inability to improve their situation, less mobility in the job market and reduced access to higher education.  It is a severely complex issue with many social and economic mechanisms affecting the outcome.

    image
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I do not agree at all with the money concept.

    IMO it is strictly an end result of MANY poor low quality developers competing against each other.

    SOE was basically company that started the wave,they could no longer compete in the subscription market and imo gave up on it.Smedley stated he would run BOTH,but soon after realized how much spending was happening on his test servers that he figured it was a good idea period.

    What it does is get something out of players that would not play the game otherwise and get more than a locked in subscription could get.This basically allows them to compete in the open market  and grind money out in a sot of sneaky way relying on foolish spenders to make up the difference.

    If no for the f2p scam MOST of these games would not see the time of day and likely most of these devs would not even attempt it.However they have yet found one last gimmick and that is the incredible FREE money from gamer's.This newest idea is mind boggling at how many what i would call "dummies" are investing into games with ZERO investment return.They might get a game to play but guess what,we have had games to play for 30+ years so not like your FREE handouts make any difference.

    The difference was that devs had to compete in the past on merit,on game quality,now all these gimmicks allow every second rate developer to pop into the scene and FLOOD the market with crap.

    F2P is not a scam.

     

    You people here on this site need to come to the drastic and quick realization that your "opinions" here are in the minority across the gaming world.  Subscriptions were a product of an era in which hardly anyone had internet, server hosting fees were high and that online gaming was in it's infancy.  Now that all those things are gone it's time for you cro-magnum of the gaming sphere to come out of your caves and start debating what type of F2P model you want.  It would behoove you to start with something you're familiar with like...what sort of F2P model would allow "me" to spend $15 a month to acheieve the optimum gaming experience.

     

    The quicker you all realize you're not only in the minority but are wrong about F2P then the quicker we can all debate the more aspects of our beloved genre.

    Opinions matter, whether they are in the minority or not.  You may not view F2P as a scam, but others have every right to feel that way, if it does indeed make them "Feel" that way.  If you feel there is nothing to debate on the topic, then don't respond.  Give reasons for why you think the way you do, but don't tell people how they should think or feel on anything.

    I do not know all of the factors influencing today's MMOs, but I do know for a fact that I do not like most of them for many varied reasons.  I also feel that part of the reason why I don't like many of those games is the business model as it feels oppressive, immersion breaking and nickel and diming.  I also feel that the focus tends to be on the cash shop and less on the game.  This may not seem legitimate to your point of view, but it is to mine and I have a right to voice it and discuss it on a forum built specifically for this kind of thing.

    image
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I do not agree at all with the money concept.

    IMO it is strictly an end result of MANY poor low quality developers competing against each other.

    SOE was basically company that started the wave,they could no longer compete in the subscription market and imo gave up on it.Smedley stated he would run BOTH,but soon after realized how much spending was happening on his test servers that he figured it was a good idea period.

    What it does is get something out of players that would not play the game otherwise and get more than a locked in subscription could get.This basically allows them to compete in the open market  and grind money out in a sot of sneaky way relying on foolish spenders to make up the difference.

    If no for the f2p scam MOST of these games would not see the time of day and likely most of these devs would not even attempt it.However they have yet found one last gimmick and that is the incredible FREE money from gamer's.This newest idea is mind boggling at how many what i would call "dummies" are investing into games with ZERO investment return.They might get a game to play but guess what,we have had games to play for 30+ years so not like your FREE handouts make any difference.

    The difference was that devs had to compete in the past on merit,on game quality,now all these gimmicks allow every second rate developer to pop into the scene and FLOOD the market with crap.

    F2P is not a scam.

     

    You people here on this site need to come to the drastic and quick realization that your "opinions" here are in the minority across the gaming world.  Subscriptions were a product of an era in which hardly anyone had internet, server hosting fees were high and that online gaming was in it's infancy.  Now that all those things are gone it's time for you cro-magnum of the gaming sphere to come out of your caves and start debating what type of F2P model you want.  It would behoove you to start with something you're familiar with like...what sort of F2P model would allow "me" to spend $15 a month to acheieve the optimum gaming experience.

     

    The quicker you all realize you're not only in the minority but are wrong about F2P then the quicker we can all debate the more aspects of our beloved genre.

    Opinions matter, whether they are in the minority or not.  You may not view F2P as a scam, but others have every right to feel that way, if it does indeed make them "Feel" that way.  If you feel there is nothing to debate on the topic, then don't respond.  Give reasons for why you think the way you do, but don't tell people how they should think or feel on anything.

    I do not know all of the factors influencing today's MMOs, but I do know for a fact that I do not like most of them for many varied reasons.  I also feel that part of the reason why I don't like many of those games is the business model as it feels oppressive, immersion breaking and nickel and diming.  I also feel that the focus tends to be on the cash shop and less on the game.  This may not seem legitimate to your point of view, but it is to mine and I have a right to voice it and discuss it on a forum built specifically for this kind of thing.

    Unless we're talking about English, since "scam" has a very real meaning and there is zero evidence that any game, F2P or otherwise, is a scam. F2P is a scam in the same way that Coach purses are a scam, or Tommy jeans are a scam, or that pharmaceuticals are a scam. You're right, every person has a right to their opinion, and I completely understand how some people dislike the F2P model, but it's actually one of the furthest things from a scam.

    Crazkanuk

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  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,785
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I do not agree at all with the money concept.

    IMO it is strictly an end result of MANY poor low quality developers competing against each other.

    SOE was basically company that started the wave,they could no longer compete in the subscription market and imo gave up on it.Smedley stated he would run BOTH,but soon after realized how much spending was happening on his test servers that he figured it was a good idea period.

    What it does is get something out of players that would not play the game otherwise and get more than a locked in subscription could get.This basically allows them to compete in the open market  and grind money out in a sot of sneaky way relying on foolish spenders to make up the difference.

    If no for the f2p scam MOST of these games would not see the time of day and likely most of these devs would not even attempt it.However they have yet found one last gimmick and that is the incredible FREE money from gamer's.This newest idea is mind boggling at how many what i would call "dummies" are investing into games with ZERO investment return.They might get a game to play but guess what,we have had games to play for 30+ years so not like your FREE handouts make any difference.

    The difference was that devs had to compete in the past on merit,on game quality,now all these gimmicks allow every second rate developer to pop into the scene and FLOOD the market with crap.

    F2P is not a scam.

     

    You people here on this site need to come to the drastic and quick realization that your "opinions" here are in the minority across the gaming world.  Subscriptions were a product of an era in which hardly anyone had internet, server hosting fees were high and that online gaming was in it's infancy.  Now that all those things are gone it's time for you cro-magnum of the gaming sphere to come out of your caves and start debating what type of F2P model you want.  It would behoove you to start with something you're familiar with like...what sort of F2P model would allow "me" to spend $15 a month to acheieve the optimum gaming experience.

     

    The quicker you all realize you're not only in the minority but are wrong about F2P then the quicker we can all debate the more aspects of our beloved genre.

    Opinions matter, whether they are in the minority or not.  You may not view F2P as a scam, but others have every right to feel that way, if it does indeed make them "Feel" that way.  If you feel there is nothing to debate on the topic, then don't respond.  Give reasons for why you think the way you do, but don't tell people how they should think or feel on anything.

    I do not know all of the factors influencing today's MMOs, but I do know for a fact that I do not like most of them for many varied reasons.  I also feel that part of the reason why I don't like many of those games is the business model as it feels oppressive, immersion breaking and nickel and diming.  I also feel that the focus tends to be on the cash shop and less on the game.  This may not seem legitimate to your point of view, but it is to mine and I have a right to voice it and discuss it on a forum built specifically for this kind of thing.

    Unless we're talking about English, since "scam" has a very real meaning and there is zero evidence that any game, F2P or otherwise, is a scam. F2P is a scam in the same way that Coach purses are a scam, or Tommy jeans are a scam, or that pharmaceuticals are a scam. You're right, every person has a right to their opinion, and I completely understand how some people dislike the F2P model, but it's actually one of the furthest things from a scam.

    Too often FtP is a scam.

    When you buy a game (PtP) and then it later switches to FtP and sells cash shop items, it becomes a scam because you didn't know when you bought it that you were going to have to pay money to keep up with the Jones'.

    When a game starts as FtP, but swears it will not sell "win" (regardless of the debate of what that means), and then starts selling XP potions, heals, etc., you've been scammed.

    It doesn't matter that they always say, up front, that they "reserve the right to change". That's legal and covers their arse. But it doesn't change gamer's opinions. They've been scammed through the loss of "good faith".

    But none of that is what this thread was about. That's a different topic, not that I mind it being done in this thread. I didn't post this meaning to cast blame of any kind, just to point out my opinion on the topic I posted.

    p.s. Cash shops always, eventually, expand. Every game will at some point suffer lost players or other reasons to need more revenue.

    Once upon a time....

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    Too often FtP is a scam.

    When you buy a game (PtP) and then it later switches to FtP and sells cash shop items, it becomes a scam because you didn't know when you bought it that you were going to have to pay money to keep up with the Jones'.

    When a game starts as FtP, but swears it will not sell "win" (regardless of the debate of what that means), and then starts selling XP potions, heals, etc., you've been scammed.

    It doesn't matter that they always say, up front, that they "reserve the right to change". That's legal and covers their arse. But it doesn't change gamer's opinions. They've been scammed through the loss of "good faith".

    But none of that is what this thread was about. That's a different topic, not that I mind it being done in this thread. I didn't post this meaning to cast blame of any kind, just to point out my opinion on the topic I posted.

    p.s. Cash shops always, eventually, expand. Every game will at some point suffer lost players or other reasons to need more revenue.

    If you buy a P2P game, and it converts to F2P, that is (a general form of) bait and switch. This is an P2P scam, which historically has had laws created to protect the customer from such abuse.

     

    Selling 'win' is not a scam, as it is a direct result of commercialization. This is not unique to F2P, and is generally given in vague terms (like 'win') to avoid issues with any fraudulent claims. This is why P2P games are much more often sued than F2P over misleading claims.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Superman0X
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    Too often FtP is a scam.

    When you buy a game (PtP) and then it later switches to FtP and sells cash shop items, it becomes a scam because you didn't know when you bought it that you were going to have to pay money to keep up with the Jones'.

    When a game starts as FtP, but swears it will not sell "win" (regardless of the debate of what that means), and then starts selling XP potions, heals, etc., you've been scammed.

    It doesn't matter that they always say, up front, that they "reserve the right to change". That's legal and covers their arse. But it doesn't change gamer's opinions. They've been scammed through the loss of "good faith".

    But none of that is what this thread was about. That's a different topic, not that I mind it being done in this thread. I didn't post this meaning to cast blame of any kind, just to point out my opinion on the topic I posted.

    p.s. Cash shops always, eventually, expand. Every game will at some point suffer lost players or other reasons to need more revenue.

    If you buy a P2P game, and it converts to F2P, that is (a general form of) bait and switch. This is an P2P scam, which historically has had laws created to protect the customer from such abuse.

     

    Selling 'win' is not a scam, as it is a direct result of commercialization. This is not unique to F2P, and is generally given in vague terms (like 'win') to avoid issues with any fraudulent claims. This is why P2P games are much more often sued than F2P over misleading claims.

    +1 exactly

     

    You should probably just stop playing games. 

    Crazkanuk

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    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
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  • ArtificeVenatusArtificeVenatus Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by ArtificeVenatus
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    The real reason that game companies are going more and more to FTP isn't about what gamers really want. It's about economics. We've all heard that the middle class is disappearing, that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

    Here is a link to a map showing what's been happening to Chicago. And this is very much like many other big cities. (Look farther down for a time lapse map showing the change. http://www.rebootillinois.com/2014/04/03/uncategorized/mattdietrich/watch-chicagos-middle-class-disappear-amazing-map/3238/?utm_campaign=&utm_source=huffpo&utm_medium=partner

    This is not only about FTP though. It's also about the strong move towards games that play on smaller and smaller machines, all the way down to smartphones (the only thing some people can afford for their toys).

    The world is changing. I knew this was happening for years. But I always thought that the Powers-That-Be would change course before it's too late. They haven't changed though, and it is too late now I'm afraid, and this is our future. Big money, including gaming companies of course, didn't miss this either. The robot revolution in industry is sealing it, as jobs disappear and more and more welfare will be required.

    So the effort has shifted to games on smaller "stations" and FTP, while going after the wealthy that's consolidating at the top (the "Whales") as the source of income.

    Like it or not, that's where we've gone in gaming and where the future lies. Cash shops are here forever, free gaming is too for those left on the welfare programs, part time work, or sub paying jobs.

    Edit: I forgot to include a link about robots where our future lies.... http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

    FTP can be explained in this video :

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An

    It is disgusting what this video contains.

    FTP has been used to grab as much money as possible.

    FTP however does not need to be as we have thus far seen it implemented, hence the reason why I came up with at least a possible solution, through creating P2W Reduction Methods. Such a system has not yet been attempted, likely because no one has bothered to look at an mmo-mmorpg and it's systems in the manner that I have. The only mmorpg that I am aware of that has P2W Reduction Methods is EVE online, and even they likely did not consciously intend such an outcome.

     

    FTP at this point in time has multiple reasons to remain in place well into the future. Those include the playerbase, the revenue that it pulls in compared to subscription only, the saturation of the market, and other details surrounding those. The P2W Reduction Methods is a good step in the right direction. Hopefully, companies will take notice of why and how to implement such systems into their mmo-mmorpgs, at least to some extent. 

    See, everyone forgets that in capitalism there are two sides of the story. It's not all about the seller. The buyer can make or break the seller. Because he doesn't have to buy. The idea that this FtP money grabbing system is what the buyers want doesn't fit right. But the idea that game companies want to put out crap for lower costs and buyers are stuck with crap and only the few (the Whales) pay money for it fits more into the scenario I have outlined than in any other.

    It's not any one thing though. Every explanation put forth as a reason for FtP is valid. But none of them alone is the whole picture. You have to look at the "four winds" and see which is the stronger to come to a conclusion. And the predominant things is that while we have all the other explanations, it's the "less money to play with" that has the strongest reasoning behind it to explain why such a mucked up revenue system wins out in an entire industry.

    And it's not just "less money to play with" for the buyers, but also for the sellers. The money just isn't there for great products from either end, investors or buyers. And the sellers (the producers) know it.

    Whereas I agree with you on the "not all about the seller" point, that was included in my post that you quoted (IE "the playerbase" is the buyer).

     

    It is to some extent about "less money to play with," but that is also a part of "it costs more to create an AAA MMORPG than it did years ago." The buyer does expect more, and why not, technology is getting better? Some of that technology getting better, makes certain aspects cheaper to create an MMORPG, but certainly not all aspects. 

     

    The buyers actually could afford $15 a month for a subscription only model, but for some reason (a majority of my in real life friends that play MMORPGs included), they want a FtP MMORPG but a subscription only type of game. To myself, that is just not realistic, unless P2W Reduction Methods were to be put in place. Currently such as P2W Reduction Methods have not truly been attempted, so it is a risk, but it looks to be the best route to that FtP MMORPG that seems like a subscription only type of game.

     

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    Originally posted by ArtificeVenatus

    The buyers actually could afford $15 a month for a subscription only model, but for some reason (a majority of my in real life friends that play MMORPGs included), they want a FtP MMORPG but a subscription only type of game. To myself, that is just not realistic, unless P2W Reduction Methods were to be put in place. Currently such as P2W Reduction Methods have not truly been attempted, so it is a risk, but it looks to be the best route to that FtP MMORPG that seems like a subscription only type of game.

     

    Most F2P games are sub based games. Sure, the have optional subs, but this is still the main revenue source for F2P in the west.

    However, neither F2P or P2P games are sub exclusive games anymore. Sub exclusivity is not a function of F2P/P2P, it is really a function of customer demand (regardless of model). This is why you are seeing the same things sold/offered in both F2P and P2P games.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,347
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk

    Unless we're talking about English, since "scam" has a very real meaning and there is zero evidence that any game, F2P or otherwise, is a scam. F2P is a scam in the same way that Coach purses are a scam, or Tommy jeans are a scam, or that pharmaceuticals are a scam. You're right, every person has a right to their opinion, and I completely understand how some people dislike the F2P model, but it's actually one of the furthest things from a scam.

    Stargate Worlds was a scam, or more precisely, a Ponzi scheme.

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