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WOW F2P with paid monthly updates.

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  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,476
    Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Op.....

    tsk tsk...

    You think that when Wow had 16 million that was not incentive enough to really improve the game?I said that from the first year i saw those giant numbers,that they were a money grinding operation that does NOT put back a FAIR amount into the game what gamer's gave to them.

    Wow NEVER deserved 16+ million,it was never a better game than EQ2,matter of fact it came out of the gates a lesser game missing ideas they blatantly copied from SOE.Sure as time went buy SOE became cheap and both started to copy each other ,none the less when your making massive amounts of cash,you would THINK Blizzard would do everything in their power to keep those numbers.

    do you even know what you're talking about.... WoW never had 16m at it's peak it had 12 million and it didnt even get massive until 4 years after release.. so i mean, sure thing bruh

    don't know where you're getting your info but it's wrong...

     

    Source - mmo-champion

     

    Almost all modern mmo's (and later WOW expansions) have followed an opposite pattern. Overhyped, big numbers at the start, a rapid initial population drop and then a slow decline into obscurity.

    Maybe devs should once again focus on growing and developing an MMO over several years, rather than pre-release hype and marketing, expensive promotional videos, celebrity voice actors and initial box sales.

     

    i agree with your sentiment... blizzard didn't know what they were getting into they focused on making the game they wanted to make based on one of their beloved IPs, and it grew.. it wasnt an instant success it took a good 4 years to reach it's peak.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu

    Almost all modern mmo's (and later WOW expansions) have followed an opposite pattern. Overhyped, big numbers at the start, a rapid initial population drop and then a slow decline into obscurity.

    Maybe devs should once again focus on growing and developing an MMO over several years, rather than pre-release hype and marketing, expensive promotional videos, celebrity voice actors and initial box sales.

    Duh, isn't the current way to overhype the game, sell 2 million copies at launch and have players it for 2 weeks and go F2P in 6 months better?

    You are of course right but CEOs tend to just care what heppens the next 3 months or at best the current year.

    Far too many companies rather get $10M today than $100M during the curse of the next 5 years. And thinking short sighted is of course incredible stupid with games that takes 5 years to make. MMOs earn more money if you have a long term plan instead of just focusing on releasing the game as soon as possible and put all work into getting the initial box sales high.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,549
    They end up at the same spot. 200 - 500k subs. It would be foolish to start at less that than that and grow to that number when you could sell millions and end up at the same place.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    You're paying money for what they've already implemented, not for what they will implement in the future.  Unless you're backing a Kickstarter, that is.

    Yup!  It shouldn't be difficult for people to understand that you are paying for access.  The have to twist it to make their point.

    But why are they paying for access? Jesus Christ man, where does this 15 bucks a month go? When WOW first came out server technology wasn't like it is now. Maintenance was every  week.  A chunk of that  $15 dollars went to maintaining the servers. Today WOW does  server maintenance every few weeks, with rolling restarts every other week.  

    What is Blizzard going to say. "Hey guys ,OK  look that 15$ a month you pay,  used to go  mostly to server stability and maintenance. But we have better servers now that require less  man power. So  we are reducing the sub   price to $4.99 to accommodate for that.

    Gimme a break. They are robbing the  consumer.  

    Reminds me of Sears up here in Canada in the 80s. Sears was the place everyone went to.  It was the only big retail chain, and they knew that, so everything was overpriced. You needed a washer/dryer, you went to Sears. You needed jeans, you went to Sears. A barbeque, Sears ! Then other retail chains began to open  up and people said, screw that, I can get a  Sony Television for 150 bucks less  at this other place and guess what,  Sears went byebye.  

    You  can get away  with charging  people 15$ a month when your the only triple AAA MMO on the market , but not anymore, and if you do you better pump out content , because there are games out there that offer way more for much less. 

    That $15.00 goes where ever they want it to go.  You don't get to say what they do with it.  It is their money.

    Robbing?  Are you serious?

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • killua2489killua2489 Member UncommonPosts: 2
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    You're paying money for what they've already implemented, not for what they will implement in the future.  Unless you're backing a Kickstarter, that is.

    Yup!  It shouldn't be difficult for people to understand that you are paying for access.  The have to twist it to make their point.

    But why are they paying for access? Jesus Christ man, where does this 15 bucks a month go? When WOW first came out server technology wasn't like it is now. Maintenance was every  week.  A chunk of that  $15 dollars went to maintaining the servers. Today WOW does  server maintenance every few weeks, with rolling restarts every other week.  

    What is Blizzard going to say. "Hey guys ,OK  look that 15$ a month you pay,  used to go  mostly to server stability and maintenance. But we have better servers now that require less  man power. So  we are reducing the sub   price to $4.99 to accommodate for that.

    Gimme a break. They are robbing the  consumer.  

    Reminds me of Sears up here in Canada in the 80s. Sears was the place everyone went to.  It was the only big retail chain, and they knew that, so everything was overpriced. You needed a washer/dryer, you went to Sears. You needed jeans, you went to Sears. A barbeque, Sears ! Then other retail chains began to open  up and people said, screw that, I can get a  Sony Television for 150 bucks less  at this other place and guess what,  Sears went byebye.  

    You  can get away  with charging  people 15$ a month when your the only triple AAA MMO on the market , but not anymore, and if you do you better pump out content , because there are games out there that offer way more for much less. 

    I want to know where your delusions that any game gives anywhere near as much content as WoW.  What you seem to think is that 15 dollars should go into the game and only the game, but your missing the fact that developers need to eat and have a home, as well as server techs, and artists, and engineers, and pr people as well. By ignoring the people making the game you have no game.  You have no servers, nor forums. hell you could call tech support and hear the number you have dialed is no longer in service. All because you want your 15 dollars to go to the game and only that.  I have yet to play an mmo that gives me multiple raid tiers along side pvp and ranked pvp,  in game pokemon, transmog, achievements, rare mounts, many items for fluff, rerunable old content which includes many great raids and dungeons, enough solo content to keep me busy for 8 years, and so many quests that I still haven't finished loremaster. You seem to think that WoW isn't worth 15 dollars to anyone, that is just you forcing your opinion on others. Your no better than the Westboro baptist church. 

     

  • MMOVet74MMOVet74 Member UncommonPosts: 76
    Originally posted by killua2489
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    You're paying money for what they've already implemented, not for what they will implement in the future.  Unless you're backing a Kickstarter, that is.

    Yup!  It shouldn't be difficult for people to understand that you are paying for access.  The have to twist it to make their point.

    But why are they paying for access? Jesus Christ man, where does this 15 bucks a month go? When WOW first came out server technology wasn't like it is now. Maintenance was every  week.  A chunk of that  $15 dollars went to maintaining the servers. Today WOW does  server maintenance every few weeks, with rolling restarts every other week.  

    What is Blizzard going to say. "Hey guys ,OK  look that 15$ a month you pay,  used to go  mostly to server stability and maintenance. But we have better servers now that require less  man power. So  we are reducing the sub   price to $4.99 to accommodate for that.

    Gimme a break. They are robbing the  consumer.  

    Reminds me of Sears up here in Canada in the 80s. Sears was the place everyone went to.  It was the only big retail chain, and they knew that, so everything was overpriced. You needed a washer/dryer, you went to Sears. You needed jeans, you went to Sears. A barbeque, Sears ! Then other retail chains began to open  up and people said, screw that, I can get a  Sony Television for 150 bucks less  at this other place and guess what,  Sears went byebye.  

    You  can get away  with charging  people 15$ a month when your the only triple AAA MMO on the market , but not anymore, and if you do you better pump out content , because there are games out there that offer way more for much less. 

    I want to know where your delusions that any game gives anywhere near as much content as WoW.  What you seem to think is that 15 dollars should go into the game and only the game, but your missing the fact that developers need to eat and have a home, as well as server techs, and artists, and engineers, and pr people as well. By ignoring the people making the game you have no game.  You have no servers, nor forums. hell you could call tech support and hear the number you have dialed is no longer in service. All because you want your 15 dollars to go to the game and only that.  I have yet to play an mmo that gives me multiple raid tiers along side pvp and ranked pvp,  in game pokemon, transmog, achievements, rare mounts, many items for fluff, rerunable old content which includes many great raids and dungeons, enough solo content to keep me busy for 8 years, and so many quests that I still haven't finished loremaster. You seem to think that WoW isn't worth 15 dollars to anyone, that is just you forcing your opinion on others. Your no better than the Westboro baptist church. 

     

    Are you serious? OMG, so I guess  all the profit from the box sales of every expansion or   base game sold goes into a big    underground  piggybank . Yeah,  I saw all the developers from Bethesda who worked on Skyrim  on the side of the road the other day, begging for spare change  Seems Skyrim doesn't have a monthly fee, guess they don't get paid. huh? 

    Oh and all that stuff you mentioned? "in game pokemon, transmog, achievements, rare mounts, many items for fluff, rerunable old content which includes many great raids and dungeons" That 50 bucks you pay for the game doesn't include that, that's extra  that they  produce with your 15$ a month. The retail game is just the box and game manual. 

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,549
    Irrelevant. That's what they've decided to charge.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • MerklynnMerklynn Member UncommonPosts: 100
    The closest Wow will ever become to another f2p is the gold for subscription Wow Token so dream on ye of little pocket change. When I played I chose the six month sub to get an even better value ($0.43 vs $0.49 per day). Wow may be eleven years old but the value is there.

    Most f2p titles are cash shop trash but without that feature the game will be dead in no time. Everything costs money so if there's a chance people will buy from the store on the regular then at least some revenue is generated. In the long run how many costumes or mounts do the average gamer need to spend real money on.

    If Blizzard were to retool Wow from the ground up with f2p in mind you would tear your hair out at the roots then just cry in the corner at how sad things have become not to mention decent monthly expansions wouldn't be cheap either. Then Blizzard would need all of us to buy them not just a few here & there to keep making quality updates. In the end f2p would be a huge mess & not worth the trouble.

    I too have a dream that if Blizzard ever pulls the plug on Wow that sometime later a stand alone single player version (possibly with four person muliplayer support) would be released on all platforms as Wow Legends. That would be glorious but of course it's never going to happen.

    For now just pay the monthly fee or find another game that fits your budget. There are good f2p out there but Wow won't ever go that route it's just wishful thinking.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by ZombieKen

    Monetization wouldn't change my interaction with WoW.  Nor have I ever had problems with lack of new content.

     

    Cataclysm was appropriately named.  The "improvements" left me cold.  Enough so that I left and never came back.

     

    They won't ever offer me what I want, which is the old game back.  But someone else did.  So now I have what I want.  I have no reason to go back.

     

     

     

    What I'm trying to say is that WOW should not have a sub fee. There was a time  when a sub fee was warranted because like I said technology wasn't as good, servers required  more maintenance,  more manpower, so costs were higher.  Server technology is so much better now that

    if a couple dudes in Northern France  can run a server that holds three times as many  players as the original game and  for free, what the hell is that sub fee for.  

     

    if you feel that strongly that WoW should be free... and $15 a month for you is out of your budget... you have some seriously life choices to make and some hard thinking todo with where your life is headed. WoW is the least of your concerns at this point.

    You don't have to like it, You don't have to pay or play, but millions of other people consider it worth it, so thats fine... also you can play for free with WoW tokens... and yeah there are plenty of other games that have plenty of content for free, just not as much or as good

    I never said 15$ is out of my budget. I never  said anything about that.   Where do you  get this information from? If your going to  insult me based on  lies then just don't respond.

    you're insulting WoW saying it's not worth $15 a month... isnt that the same thing?

    WOW the same thing as a person? Worth varies from person to person you know... IF you feel the need to insult people over their opinion on what is a good value, you may need to rethink your life...

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,415

    I agree that $15/month plus paying for the base game and $50 or so for each expansion is a disincentive, but they are making so much money with that business model even with the decline in subs that it is hard to imagine WoW will go f2p or b2p any time soon.

    If subs keep sinking at such a dramatic pace though it will be interesting to see at what level they think about changing things up. Will it be at 2 million subs? 1 million? If the population falls so far is it even a matter of what they charge anymore? Would going b2p or f2p even make a difference at that point?

    I have a feeling that the dramatic drop off in subs is a combination of newer games that are both cheaper and just as good or better than WoW. For example I can't think of any particular reason why I would want to play it - its crafting is boring, combat is boring, pve is boring, questing is boring, pvp is comparatively boring and unbalanced, most dungeons are complete faceroll (while levelling up at least) and have boring mechanics. The open world and art style are nice, and the animations are fluid, but in many ways it is like a very polished but very boring game- almost more of a social hub.

     

    In other words the problem is probably more that it is being left behind, like the other dinosaurs (EQ etc), than just due to its sub.

    ....
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,476
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by ZombieKen

    Monetization wouldn't change my interaction with WoW.  Nor have I ever had problems with lack of new content.

     

    Cataclysm was appropriately named.  The "improvements" left me cold.  Enough so that I left and never came back.

     

    They won't ever offer me what I want, which is the old game back.  But someone else did.  So now I have what I want.  I have no reason to go back.

     

     

     

    What I'm trying to say is that WOW should not have a sub fee. There was a time  when a sub fee was warranted because like I said technology wasn't as good, servers required  more maintenance,  more manpower, so costs were higher.  Server technology is so much better now that

    if a couple dudes in Northern France  can run a server that holds three times as many  players as the original game and  for free, what the hell is that sub fee for.  

     

    if you feel that strongly that WoW should be free... and $15 a month for you is out of your budget... you have some seriously life choices to make and some hard thinking todo with where your life is headed. WoW is the least of your concerns at this point.

    You don't have to like it, You don't have to pay or play, but millions of other people consider it worth it, so thats fine... also you can play for free with WoW tokens... and yeah there are plenty of other games that have plenty of content for free, just not as much or as good

    I never said 15$ is out of my budget. I never  said anything about that.   Where do you  get this information from? If your going to  insult me based on  lies then just don't respond.

    you're insulting WoW saying it's not worth $15 a month... isnt that the same thing?

    WOW the same thing as a person? Worth varies from person to person you know... IF you feel the need to insult people over their opinion on what is a good value, you may need to rethink your life...

    Thanks for the insight, but my life is just peachy, i don't need to come to forums and start game hate threads because it's the cool thing todo. the fact remains, just because his opinion is that blizzard rob's their customers which is a joke to begin with because worth is in the eye of the consumer over 5 million people disagree, this thread should never even have existed in the first place. i guess it's hard to remain upbeat when the cynicism run's so rampant.

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Op.....

    tsk tsk...

    You think that when Wow had 16 million that was not incentive enough to really improve the game?I said that from the first year i saw those giant numbers,that they were a money grinding operation that does NOT put back a FAIR amount into the game what gamer's gave to them.

    Wow NEVER deserved 16+ million,it was never a better game than EQ2,matter of fact it came out of the gates a lesser game missing ideas they blatantly copied from SOE.Sure as time went buy SOE became cheap and both started to copy each other ,none the less when your making massive amounts of cash,you would THINK Blizzard would do everything in their power to keep those numbers.

    WoW also never HAD 16 million subs...You dont even know how many subs the game peaked at, yet you want us to believe you know its content and what Blizz has put into it?

    Do you even research things before commenting on them?

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,476
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Op.....

    tsk tsk...

    You think that when Wow had 16 million that was not incentive enough to really improve the game?I said that from the first year i saw those giant numbers,that they were a money grinding operation that does NOT put back a FAIR amount into the game what gamer's gave to them.

    Wow NEVER deserved 16+ million,it was never a better game than EQ2,matter of fact it came out of the gates a lesser game missing ideas they blatantly copied from SOE.Sure as time went buy SOE became cheap and both started to copy each other ,none the less when your making massive amounts of cash,you would THINK Blizzard would do everything in their power to keep those numbers.

    WoW also never HAD 16 million subs...

    Do you even research things before commenting on them?

    yeah, the ones where people have no idea what they're talking about and just spout nonsense to jump on the hate train i find the most amusing... it's why i couldn't help myself from posting the graph

  • MMOVet74MMOVet74 Member UncommonPosts: 76
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by ZombieKen

    Monetization wouldn't change my interaction with WoW.  Nor have I ever had problems with lack of new content.

     

    Cataclysm was appropriately named.  The "improvements" left me cold.  Enough so that I left and never came back.

     

    They won't ever offer me what I want, which is the old game back.  But someone else did.  So now I have what I want.  I have no reason to go back.

     

     

     

    What I'm trying to say is that WOW should not have a sub fee. There was a time  when a sub fee was warranted because like I said technology wasn't as good, servers required  more maintenance,  more manpower, so costs were higher.  Server technology is so much better now that

    if a couple dudes in Northern France  can run a server that holds three times as many  players as the original game and  for free, what the hell is that sub fee for.  

     

    if you feel that strongly that WoW should be free... and $15 a month for you is out of your budget... you have some seriously life choices to make and some hard thinking todo with where your life is headed. WoW is the least of your concerns at this point.

    You don't have to like it, You don't have to pay or play, but millions of other people consider it worth it, so thats fine... also you can play for free with WoW tokens... and yeah there are plenty of other games that have plenty of content for free, just not as much or as good

    I never said 15$ is out of my budget. I never  said anything about that.   Where do you  get this information from? If your going to  insult me based on  lies then just don't respond.

    you're insulting WoW saying it's not worth $15 a month... isnt that the same thing?

    WOW the same thing as a person? Worth varies from person to person you know... IF you feel the need to insult people over their opinion on what is a good value, you may need to rethink your life...

    Thanks for the insight, but my life is just peachy, i don't need to come to forums and start game hate threads because it's the cool thing todo. the fact remains, just because his opinion is that blizzard rob's their customers which is a joke to begin with because worth is in the eye of the consumer over 5 million people disagree, this thread should never even have existed in the first place. i guess it's hard to remain upbeat when the cynicism run's so rampant.

    So 5 million people  disagree... ok, but what about the 5 million who left the game  and agree. They don't count?

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,476
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by ZombieKen

    Monetization wouldn't change my interaction with WoW.  Nor have I ever had problems with lack of new content.

     

    Cataclysm was appropriately named.  The "improvements" left me cold.  Enough so that I left and never came back.

     

    They won't ever offer me what I want, which is the old game back.  But someone else did.  So now I have what I want.  I have no reason to go back.

     

     

     

    What I'm trying to say is that WOW should not have a sub fee. There was a time  when a sub fee was warranted because like I said technology wasn't as good, servers required  more maintenance,  more manpower, so costs were higher.  Server technology is so much better now that

    if a couple dudes in Northern France  can run a server that holds three times as many  players as the original game and  for free, what the hell is that sub fee for.  

     

    if you feel that strongly that WoW should be free... and $15 a month for you is out of your budget... you have some seriously life choices to make and some hard thinking todo with where your life is headed. WoW is the least of your concerns at this point.

    You don't have to like it, You don't have to pay or play, but millions of other people consider it worth it, so thats fine... also you can play for free with WoW tokens... and yeah there are plenty of other games that have plenty of content for free, just not as much or as good

    I never said 15$ is out of my budget. I never  said anything about that.   Where do you  get this information from? If your going to  insult me based on  lies then just don't respond.

    you're insulting WoW saying it's not worth $15 a month... isnt that the same thing?

    WOW the same thing as a person? Worth varies from person to person you know... IF you feel the need to insult people over their opinion on what is a good value, you may need to rethink your life...

    Thanks for the insight, but my life is just peachy, i don't need to come to forums and start game hate threads because it's the cool thing todo. the fact remains, just because his opinion is that blizzard rob's their customers which is a joke to begin with because worth is in the eye of the consumer over 5 million people disagree, this thread should never even have existed in the first place. i guess it's hard to remain upbeat when the cynicism run's so rampant.

    So 5 million people  disagree... ok, but what about the 5 million who left the game  and agree. They don't count?

    so.. you're one person saying those 5 million that left, left because they had to pay $15 a month... i'm sure there is a multitude of reasons why people left and i'd say having to pay $15 a month is a low % of that, those people who did leave, probably still wouldn't return if the game went free to play because they consumed current content and have nothing to gain for it... those same people will be clogging up the servers come xpack launch because that's how this dance goes. it's how it's always gone a lot of people left this expansion because of World of Garrisons... i personally don't get what the hate is, no one is forcing me to stay in my garrison when i'm not raiding.. but people need something to complain about to keep themselves happy....

    Hell the new expansion isnt even launched and i've seen so many things on facebook from people saying "well, i'll buy it" and then continuing on in a long winded rant about how they're not happy about buying it because x reasons but they'll still try it and give it a chance.

    which is silly, if you're so unhappy about the artifact weapon system.. don't play the game, why waste your money buying the expansion on something you've seen a short preview of and already decided you hate it.

     

    Edit - and before you make some fanboy comment again.. i'm also playing Skyforge, Ark, ESO and TERA all for different reasons.. each game has aspects i like and dislike, but, i dont need to make hate threads about the thing's i don't like.

  • MMOVet74MMOVet74 Member UncommonPosts: 76
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by ZombieKen

    Monetization wouldn't change my interaction with WoW.  Nor have I ever had problems with lack of new content.

     

    Cataclysm was appropriately named.  The "improvements" left me cold.  Enough so that I left and never came back.

     

    They won't ever offer me what I want, which is the old game back.  But someone else did.  So now I have what I want.  I have no reason to go back.

     

     

     

    What I'm trying to say is that WOW should not have a sub fee. There was a time  when a sub fee was warranted because like I said technology wasn't as good, servers required  more maintenance,  more manpower, so costs were higher.  Server technology is so much better now that

    if a couple dudes in Northern France  can run a server that holds three times as many  players as the original game and  for free, what the hell is that sub fee for.  

     

    if you feel that strongly that WoW should be free... and $15 a month for you is out of your budget... you have some seriously life choices to make and some hard thinking todo with where your life is headed. WoW is the least of your concerns at this point.

    You don't have to like it, You don't have to pay or play, but millions of other people consider it worth it, so thats fine... also you can play for free with WoW tokens... and yeah there are plenty of other games that have plenty of content for free, just not as much or as good

    I never said 15$ is out of my budget. I never  said anything about that.   Where do you  get this information from? If your going to  insult me based on  lies then just don't respond.

    you're insulting WoW saying it's not worth $15 a month... isnt that the same thing?

    WOW the same thing as a person? Worth varies from person to person you know... IF you feel the need to insult people over their opinion on what is a good value, you may need to rethink your life...

    Thanks for the insight, but my life is just peachy, i don't need to come to forums and start game hate threads because it's the cool thing todo. the fact remains, just because his opinion is that blizzard rob's their customers which is a joke to begin with because worth is in the eye of the consumer over 5 million people disagree, this thread should never even have existed in the first place. i guess it's hard to remain upbeat when the cynicism run's so rampant.

    So 5 million people  disagree... ok, but what about the 5 million who left the game  and agree. They don't count?

    so.. you're one person saying those 5 million that left, left because they had to pay $15 a month... i'm sure there is a multitude of reasons why people left and i'd say having to pay $15 a month is a low % of that, those people who did leave, probably still wouldn't return if the game went free to play because they consumed current content and have nothing to gain for it... those same people will be clogging up the servers come xpack launch because that's how this dance goes. it's how it's always gone a lot of people left this expansion because of World of Garrisons... i personally don't get what the hate is, no one is forcing me to stay in my garrison when i'm not raiding.. but people need something to complain about to keep themselves happy....

    Hell the new expansion isnt even launched and i've seen so many things on facebook from people saying "well, i'll buy it" and then continuing on in a long winded rant about how they're not happy about buying it because x reasons but they'll still try it and give it a chance.

    which is silly, if you're so unhappy about the artifact weapon system.. don't play the game, why waste your money buying the expansion on something you've seen a short preview of and already decided you hate it.

     

    Edit - and before you make some fanboy comment again.. i'm also playing Skyforge, Ark, ESO and TERA all for different reasons.. each game has aspects i like and dislike, but, i dont need to make hate threads about the thing's i don't like.

    This is my last response to you. You obviously are a troll. First you accused me of not being able to afford a sub fee and  then  you insulted  me saying that I have real life issues and need to  work on them. I still don't  get that one.  Now you just lost it., saying I'm  unhappy with the artifact system. I never  mentioned anything anywhere  in this post about disliking the artifact system. I never even mentioned any of the new features in  Legions.  I decided I hate it already?  You are making  shit up.  

     

     

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,476
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by MMOVet74
    Originally posted by ZombieKen

    Monetization wouldn't change my interaction with WoW.  Nor have I ever had problems with lack of new content.

     

    Cataclysm was appropriately named.  The "improvements" left me cold.  Enough so that I left and never came back.

     

    They won't ever offer me what I want, which is the old game back.  But someone else did.  So now I have what I want.  I have no reason to go back.

     

     

     

    What I'm trying to say is that WOW should not have a sub fee. There was a time  when a sub fee was warranted because like I said technology wasn't as good, servers required  more maintenance,  more manpower, so costs were higher.  Server technology is so much better now that

    if a couple dudes in Northern France  can run a server that holds three times as many  players as the original game and  for free, what the hell is that sub fee for.  

     

    if you feel that strongly that WoW should be free... and $15 a month for you is out of your budget... you have some seriously life choices to make and some hard thinking todo with where your life is headed. WoW is the least of your concerns at this point.

    You don't have to like it, You don't have to pay or play, but millions of other people consider it worth it, so thats fine... also you can play for free with WoW tokens... and yeah there are plenty of other games that have plenty of content for free, just not as much or as good

    I never said 15$ is out of my budget. I never  said anything about that.   Where do you  get this information from? If your going to  insult me based on  lies then just don't respond.

    you're insulting WoW saying it's not worth $15 a month... isnt that the same thing?

    WOW the same thing as a person? Worth varies from person to person you know... IF you feel the need to insult people over their opinion on what is a good value, you may need to rethink your life...

    Thanks for the insight, but my life is just peachy, i don't need to come to forums and start game hate threads because it's the cool thing todo. the fact remains, just because his opinion is that blizzard rob's their customers which is a joke to begin with because worth is in the eye of the consumer over 5 million people disagree, this thread should never even have existed in the first place. i guess it's hard to remain upbeat when the cynicism run's so rampant.

    So 5 million people  disagree... ok, but what about the 5 million who left the game  and agree. They don't count?

    so.. you're one person saying those 5 million that left, left because they had to pay $15 a month... i'm sure there is a multitude of reasons why people left and i'd say having to pay $15 a month is a low % of that, those people who did leave, probably still wouldn't return if the game went free to play because they consumed current content and have nothing to gain for it... those same people will be clogging up the servers come xpack launch because that's how this dance goes. it's how it's always gone a lot of people left this expansion because of World of Garrisons... i personally don't get what the hate is, no one is forcing me to stay in my garrison when i'm not raiding.. but people need something to complain about to keep themselves happy....

    Hell the new expansion isnt even launched and i've seen so many things on facebook from people saying "well, i'll buy it" and then continuing on in a long winded rant about how they're not happy about buying it because x reasons but they'll still try it and give it a chance.

    which is silly, if you're so unhappy about the artifact weapon system.. don't play the game, why waste your money buying the expansion on something you've seen a short preview of and already decided you hate it.

     

    Edit - and before you make some fanboy comment again.. i'm also playing Skyforge, Ark, ESO and TERA all for different reasons.. each game has aspects i like and dislike, but, i dont need to make hate threads about the thing's i don't like.

    This is my last response to you. You obviously are a troll. First you accused me of not being able to afford a sub fee and  then  you insulted  me saying that I have real life issues and need to  work on them. I still don't  get that one.  Now you just lost it., saying I'm  unhappy with the artifact system. I never  mentioned anything anywhere  in this post about disliking the artifact system. I never even mentioned any of the new features in  Legions. You are making  shit up.  

     

     

     

    actually there was an IF there... i was said IF $15 a month... all of it was based off an IF there was no assumption that you can't afford it, there was an IF statement. Neither a troll or an insult, more of an insinuation i never at any point said

    you cannot afford the sub and should fix your life.. i pointed out that if you cannot afford the sub than WoW is the least of your worries in the first place.

    you make more of what's written instead of  reading whats actually written. there was no personal attack or anything.. just a simple IF statement that you took overly personally.

     

    Edit - and you clearly have a problem reading things you dont want to see... i never said YOU have a problem with the artifact system.. i was pointing out a rant another person made.. which i made very clear.

    Hell the new expansion isnt even launched and i've seen so many things on facebook from

    i dont know how i could have made that anymore clearer... saying that i've read so many posts on facebook (groups) for WoW and that one of the big complaints is artifact weapons.

     

    infact just so you're super clear on understanding

     

    Hell the new expansion isnt even launched and i've seen so many things on facebook from people saying "well, i'll buy it" and then continuing on in a long winded rant about how they're not happy about buying it because x reasons but they'll still try it and give it a chance.

    which is silly, if you're so unhappy about the artifact weapon system.. don't play the game, why waste your money buying the expansion on something you've seen a short preview of and already decided you hate it.

     

    That Had 0 todo with anything you said and was pointing out complaints OTHER people have with an expansion that isnt even released yet... and even though they are so unhappy with what they see, they're still going to buy it and try it anyway.

  • hockeyplayrhockeyplayr Member UncommonPosts: 604
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    Originally we got many zones, 60 levels and lots of interesting features. Dugeons with blue sets and a couple of raids.

    All which lasted a decent amount of time.

    Today we get 10 levels of story we work thru in 3 days and 12 months of pathetic content (pet battles, garrions, dailies, rep grinds, etc.) to re-grind thru.

    That's the problem.

     

    If its a cost issue I just wish they would charge us more - I'd rather pay more for engaging entertainment than pay peanuts to sync my life away.

    Just like I pay $20 (inc food, drinks etc.) to see a new movie each week I'd easily pay the same for a MMO that gave me the same entertainment.

     

     

    We, as adults may, but you have to take into consideration all the kids playing with their parents money.  I know when I was younger and WoW was new I couldn't get my parents to give me $15 a month for a sub but they were more than willing to pay the $5 a month for Runescape, so that is the game i ended up playing..

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Originally posted by hockeyplayr
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    Originally we got many zones, 60 levels and lots of interesting features. Dugeons with blue sets and a couple of raids.

    All which lasted a decent amount of time.

    Today we get 10 levels of story we work thru in 3 days and 12 months of pathetic content (pet battles, garrions, dailies, rep grinds, etc.) to re-grind thru.

    That's the problem.

     

    If its a cost issue I just wish they would charge us more - I'd rather pay more for engaging entertainment than pay peanuts to sync my life away.

    Just like I pay $20 (inc food, drinks etc.) to see a new movie each week I'd easily pay the same for a MMO that gave me the same entertainment.

     

     

    We, as adults may, but you have to take into consideration all the kids playing with their parents money.  I know when I was younger and WoW was new I couldn't get my parents to give me $15 a month for a sub but they were more than willing to pay the $5 a month for Runescape, so that is the game i ended up playing..

    That is your own fault for not having $15 a month for a sub game.  When I was 16 back in 1996 I cut grass to be able to by myself a 4 wheeler that was around $500.  When I was 18, I had a job and I could afford my own computer, my own internet, my car insurance and 2 UO subscriptions.  So No just because kids are lazy and they expect their parents to give them money for everything they want does not mean that games should screw up their game just for lazy people.  Sorry but no.  Learn to make money and quit crying about it.  Hell when I was 13 I also cut grass and made $200 in a month to buy myself a new bike.  

     

    I am tired of people like you making excuses for everyone.  

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011

    OP.  You are right on 1 thing.  WOW is not worth $15 a month and its because they watered down their content so far that Dungeons are basically useless after 1 month, and Raids you blow by them in 2 months.  And people say well do the Challenge modes, dude no I am not into Speed runs.  Give me a Vanilla WOW or TBC Server any day and I would play it.  I would promise you that all the TBC heroics I would complete because I did them before.  I know how to CC and play a role.

     

     WOW went to far to the most casualist gamer and thought they would bring in the Farmvillie crowd and make more money doing that.  Well no you cannot make MMOs easy mode to the point you are done with content in a month.  Now you cannot make a Wildstar MMO where you have massive attunements needing to do very hard 20 man content to do 40 man content.  There is a good middle ground and they cannot seem to get that.   

  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 746
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by hockeyplayr
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    Originally we got many zones, 60 levels and lots of interesting features. Dugeons with blue sets and a couple of raids.

    All which lasted a decent amount of time.

    Today we get 10 levels of story we work thru in 3 days and 12 months of pathetic content (pet battles, garrions, dailies, rep grinds, etc.) to re-grind thru.

    That's the problem.

     

    If its a cost issue I just wish they would charge us more - I'd rather pay more for engaging entertainment than pay peanuts to sync my life away.

    Just like I pay $20 (inc food, drinks etc.) to see a new movie each week I'd easily pay the same for a MMO that gave me the same entertainment.

     

     

    We, as adults may, but you have to take into consideration all the kids playing with their parents money.  I know when I was younger and WoW was new I couldn't get my parents to give me $15 a month for a sub but they were more than willing to pay the $5 a month for Runescape, so that is the game i ended up playing..

    That is your own fault for not having $15 a month for a sub game.  When I was 16 back in 1996 I cut grass to be able to by myself a 4 wheeler that was around $500.  When I was 18, I had a job and I could afford my own computer, my own internet, my car insurance and 2 UO subscriptions.  So No just because kids are lazy and they expect their parents to give them money for everything they want does not mean that games should screw up their game just for lazy people.  Sorry but no.  Learn to make money and quit crying about it.  Hell when I was 13 I also cut grass and made $200 in a month to buy myself a new bike.  

     

    I am tired of people like you making excuses for everyone.  

    when I was 4 I wrote a Opera, when I was 8 I wrote a Symphony, by age 10 I  successfully split the atom, at age 12 I directed the Moon Landing Hoax that people still believe is true, at age 15 I invented Al Gore, now in my 19th year I am working on Slaying the beast known as World of Warcraft.

     

    I am also the king of Nigeria and have given trillions of dollars to random people over the internet.

     

    But you're right, $200 for a bike is a much bigger accomplishment . . .

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Originally posted by sayuu
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by hockeyplayr
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    Originally we got many zones, 60 levels and lots of interesting features. Dugeons with blue sets and a couple of raids.

    All which lasted a decent amount of time.

    Today we get 10 levels of story we work thru in 3 days and 12 months of pathetic content (pet battles, garrions, dailies, rep grinds, etc.) to re-grind thru.

    That's the problem.

     

    If its a cost issue I just wish they would charge us more - I'd rather pay more for engaging entertainment than pay peanuts to sync my life away.

    Just like I pay $20 (inc food, drinks etc.) to see a new movie each week I'd easily pay the same for a MMO that gave me the same entertainment.

     

     

    We, as adults may, but you have to take into consideration all the kids playing with their parents money.  I know when I was younger and WoW was new I couldn't get my parents to give me $15 a month for a sub but they were more than willing to pay the $5 a month for Runescape, so that is the game i ended up playing..

    That is your own fault for not having $15 a month for a sub game.  When I was 16 back in 1996 I cut grass to be able to by myself a 4 wheeler that was around $500.  When I was 18, I had a job and I could afford my own computer, my own internet, my car insurance and 2 UO subscriptions.  So No just because kids are lazy and they expect their parents to give them money for everything they want does not mean that games should screw up their game just for lazy people.  Sorry but no.  Learn to make money and quit crying about it.  Hell when I was 13 I also cut grass and made $200 in a month to buy myself a new bike.  

     

    I am tired of people like you making excuses for everyone.  

    when I was 4 I wrote a Opera, when I was 8 I wrote a Symphony, by age 10 I  successfully split the atom, at age 12 I directed the Moon Landing Hoax that people still believe is true, at age 15 I invented Al Gore, now in my 19th year I am working on Slaying the beast known as World of Warcraft.

     

    I am also the king of Nigeria and have given trillions of dollars to random people over the internet.

     

    But you're right, $200 for a bike is a much bigger accomplishment . . .

    plays violin.  Sorry that you disagree, however I have no sympathy for anyone who cannot make money to support their hobby.  Its no one else's responsibility just your own.  I wrote what I was able to do to prove that some KID does not have to HOPE for their parents to give them money for what they want to do in life.  They need to EARN it and people like you don't get it or never will get it.  Just like my step daughter earns an allowance.  If she does her chores she gets paid, if not well she does not.  If she does not have money for the Movies one night and she wants to go with her friends you know what happens?  She don't go if she didn't earn the money from her chores.  Some of you will say I am a bad parent because I make my kid earn their way, guess what when she is 25 she will not be expecting mommy and daddy to pay for her bills when she is out on her own.  

    So no  hockeyplayr's complaint, or sob story is just that, not him being UNABLE to get the money, its that he expected Mommy And Daddy Handouts instead of finding a way to earn his keep. 

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,070
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Even if WoW went F2P (Unlikely), they would likely still produce content at the same rate because Blizzard as a developer has pretty much always developed at a slow pace. 

     

    They msot likely know that MMOs are only good for so many expansions...At some point they jump the shark and the game starts to decline heavily, which is what we are seeing now......Everquest has cranked out 21 expansions in 16 years and they have lost alot of their customer base as a result also.

  • mark2123mark2123 Member UncommonPosts: 450

    I left WoW for one reason - Blizzard's greed i.e. they do not deserve my money.  What you pay for the box set or expansion is justification for that payment.  Then to pay a monthly sub, when hundreds of other games can give you an online server experience without a sub, shows that Blizzard is greedy.

    If Blizzard took those billions (£1.5b/$2b a year in it's hey-day)  it earned from the subs and invested it in the game, the content releases and game upgrades should have been regular and awesome.

    All Blizzard does is leech from the customer in taking a monthly sub, for what justification?

    Damn, the monthly sub should pay for the expansions - they shouldn't get getting both a sub income and an expansion income.  Total greed.

     

  • BanquettoBanquetto Member UncommonPosts: 1,037
    I have played WoW off and on for the entire time from release until right now.

    There is no point in that spell of nearly 11 years when my sub was inactive, but I WOULD have been playing if it was free.

    $15 a month for a game I'm enjoying? I won't even hesitate for a microsecond to consider that fee.

    Similarly, I won't play a game I'm not currently enjoying, just because it's free.

    Don't like WoW? Fine. Fact is, more people have enjoyed it for longer - proven by them voting with their wallets - than any other game in history.
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