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The Review is Out, Many Gamers Have Spoken, Change is Needed

2

Comments

  • mrneurosismrneurosis Member UncommonPosts: 300
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    I don't think f2p will help this game. It's pretty niche (which is perfectly fine) and the most loyal players who are willing to ignore bugs and the lack of features are already ingame.

     

    The broad majority who would join on a f2p conversion wouldn't be so forgiving.

    In the end they would leave again and PO would miss out on some subscription money.

     

    The only thing that will help PO in the long run is to turn this into a fully fleshed out game.

    Ofcourse sub model is the problem. OP clearly mentioned that PO has few hundred players right now which are not enough for extensive development of game in future. How you think they will turn it into a fully fleshed game without more money? magic?

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281
    Originally posted by Giffen

    I'm not sure what the budget was for this game but from the looks of it from my short time in game, the budget must have been under $20M.  I just don't get it.  The game just doesn't have the graphics, animations, or basic UI that a modern game requires.  Those things should be the absolute first things you master before you open it up to the public, and obviously before you start taking money for the game.

     

    All additional systems you can add on later, but the basics of graphics, animations, and UI are necessary.

     Many ""modern games' with the graphics that you desire have budgets of 100-200+ million, so having a budget of 20 million doesn't exactly leave a lot to inspire.

     Not sure the op gets what he's asking for. Go from some income to almost no income, while you stop working on the game and bugs itself to switch over to a F2P system and then to develop things to sell in cash shop, as it is doubtful they would be able to hire another team at this time to do thos things. Not sure how many players would continue to support a currently poor game in a F2P state that's isn't even able to work on whats wrong currently, because they are forced to try and make item shop things to sell instead (pretty ponies, DLC, keys for drop boxes etc.

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281
    Originally posted by F0URTWENTY
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    I don't think f2p will help this game. It's pretty niche (which is perfectly fine) and the most loyal players who are willing to ignore bugs and the lack of features are already ingame.

     

    The broad majority who would join on a f2p conversion wouldn't be so forgiving.

    In the end they would leave again and PO would miss out on some subscription money.

     

    The only thing that will help PO in the long run is to turn this into a fully fleshed out game.

     

    The reviewer said he could run around for hours without seeing another player so clearly there is a lack of loyal players like you mention. It's not like there are hundreds of people playing Pathfinder right now. There are probably a hundred or so with active subscriptions to be gaining real time xp so they get an advantage over players when the game is finished, but they definitely aren't actively playing the game or it wouldn't be so empty.

     

    If the game was F2P I'm sure my clan would have given it a shot. But we don't need to pay a box fee and subscription to a barebones game like pathfinder when Mortal Online is out and a much more finished and fun sandbox game.

     

    You are right though, open world pvp sandbox games cater to a small niche of players. However a good % of this small niche has been turned off completely by the games monetization methods. You cant cater to a niche of a niche playerbase and expect to have a successful product.

     

    Personally I am a competitive pvper in sandbox games. I would never pay for such a barebones and incomplete game such as Pathfinder. More importantly years from now when the game is in a playable and fun state I would never start a game at a 2 year skill point disadvantage in a skill system like Eve Onlines. Eve Online at least has asyemetrical balance due to ship types to make it balanced and easy to get enough skill points in a specific role to be competitive. In a game like pathfinder the more xp the better without limitations. You cant take the skill system that Eve Online has and forget about the thing that makes it fair: Asymetrical Balance.

     Not sure I understand, you say you "wound never pay for such a barebones and incomplete game as pathfinder." But if it went F2P you and your guild would go play (though not pay anything for it, thus actually costing the game company more, as bandwith, more servers for larger player base maybe cheap but isn't free. Making it F2P will not make PFO any better though it might bring in some players to try it for a month before the newness wears off and they get tired of the bugs and problems it does have and leaves.

     

      Now if your saying you and your guild would be willing to sub if PFO went F2P even if only for a month or 2 then that's a different story.  Sure we all want things for free, and hope others will pay for our play time, but I doubt that all F2P conversions = more money. A bad game that not worth the money is still a bad game not worth the money when its F2P and you can buy a nifty horse or lock box key is it not??? Not saying PFO online is bad I personally haven't played it but the reviews so far seem to point in that direction

  • F0URTWENTYF0URTWENTY Member UncommonPosts: 349
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by F0URTWENTY
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    I don't think f2p will help this game. It's pretty niche (which is perfectly fine) and the most loyal players who are willing to ignore bugs and the lack of features are already ingame.

     

    The broad majority who would join on a f2p conversion wouldn't be so forgiving.

    In the end they would leave again and PO would miss out on some subscription money.

     

    The only thing that will help PO in the long run is to turn this into a fully fleshed out game.

     

    The reviewer said he could run around for hours without seeing another player so clearly there is a lack of loyal players like you mention. It's not like there are hundreds of people playing Pathfinder right now. There are probably a hundred or so with active subscriptions to be gaining real time xp so they get an advantage over players when the game is finished, but they definitely aren't actively playing the game or it wouldn't be so empty.

     

    If the game was F2P I'm sure my clan would have given it a shot. But we don't need to pay a box fee and subscription to a barebones game like pathfinder when Mortal Online is out and a much more finished and fun sandbox game.

     

    You are right though, open world pvp sandbox games cater to a small niche of players. However a good % of this small niche has been turned off completely by the games monetization methods. You cant cater to a niche of a niche playerbase and expect to have a successful product.

     

    Personally I am a competitive pvper in sandbox games. I would never pay for such a barebones and incomplete game such as Pathfinder. More importantly years from now when the game is in a playable and fun state I would never start a game at a 2 year skill point disadvantage in a skill system like Eve Onlines. Eve Online at least has asyemetrical balance due to ship types to make it balanced and easy to get enough skill points in a specific role to be competitive. In a game like pathfinder the more xp the better without limitations. You cant take the skill system that Eve Online has and forget about the thing that makes it fair: Asymetrical Balance.

     Not sure I understand, you say you "wound never pay for such a barebones and incomplete game as pathfinder." But if it went F2P you and your guild would go play (though not pay anything for it, thus actually costing the game company more, as bandwith, more servers for larger player base maybe cheap but isn't free. Making it F2P will not make PFO any better though it might bring in some players to try it for a month before the newness wears off and they get tired of the bugs and problems it does have and leaves.

     

      Now if your saying you and your guild would be willing to sub if PFO went F2P even if only for a month or 2 then that's a different story.  Sure we all want things for free, and hope others will pay for our play time, but I doubt that all F2P conversions = more money. A bad game that not worth the money is still a bad game not worth the money when its F2P and you can buy a nifty horse or lock box key is it not??? Not saying PFO online is bad I personally haven't played it but the reviews so far seem to point in that direction

     

    My guild would not pay for a game that is more incomplete and less fun than the game we are currently playing. My guild would also not start to play pathfinder years from now when it may be fun and complete enough, at a massive skill point disadvantage.

     

    The point being the way they are monetizing the game is preventing many of the niche players this game is trying to cater to from ever even giving it a shot.

     

    If it was F2P we could all be gaining XP and years from now when it may be an actual game and not something that resembles a high school computer science project we would all be on the same level. 

     

    Competitive guilds will not be wanting to jump into pathfinder at a massive disadvantage years from now. We also wont play for a game in the pitiful state Pathfinder is currently at.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,764
    Originally posted by Thebeasttt
    If the game is so terrible it can't use a subscription model, wouldn't the priority be to make the game not terrible?

    Yea, Beasttt, they should just let you fix it.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • seraphis79seraphis79 Member UncommonPosts: 277

    I signed up for the free trial and knew immediately that I wouldn't be paying a monthly sub for the game.  It's too unfinished for me to give them any money.  

    I may check it out in six months or longer once it has time to develop more.

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281
    Originally posted by F0URTWENTY
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by F0URTWENTY
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    I don't think f2p will help this game. It's pretty niche (which is perfectly fine) and the most loyal players who are willing to ignore bugs and the lack of features are already ingame.

     

    The broad majority who would join on a f2p conversion wouldn't be so forgiving.

    In the end they would leave again and PO would miss out on some subscription money.

     

    The only thing that will help PO in the long run is to turn this into a fully fleshed out game.

     

    The reviewer said he could run around for hours without seeing another player so clearly there is a lack of loyal players like you mention. It's not like there are hundreds of people playing Pathfinder right now. There are probably a hundred or so with active subscriptions to be gaining real time xp so they get an advantage over players when the game is finished, but they definitely aren't actively playing the game or it wouldn't be so empty.

     

    If the game was F2P I'm sure my clan would have given it a shot. But we don't need to pay a box fee and subscription to a barebones game like pathfinder when Mortal Online is out and a much more finished and fun sandbox game.

     

    You are right though, open world pvp sandbox games cater to a small niche of players. However a good % of this small niche has been turned off completely by the games monetization methods. You cant cater to a niche of a niche playerbase and expect to have a successful product.

     

    Personally I am a competitive pvper in sandbox games. I would never pay for such a barebones and incomplete game such as Pathfinder. More importantly years from now when the game is in a playable and fun state I would never start a game at a 2 year skill point disadvantage in a skill system like Eve Onlines. Eve Online at least has asyemetrical balance due to ship types to make it balanced and easy to get enough skill points in a specific role to be competitive. In a game like pathfinder the more xp the better without limitations. You cant take the skill system that Eve Online has and forget about the thing that makes it fair: Asymetrical Balance.

     Not sure I understand, you say you "wound never pay for such a barebones and incomplete game as pathfinder." But if it went F2P you and your guild would go play (though not pay anything for it, thus actually costing the game company more, as bandwith, more servers for larger player base maybe cheap but isn't free. Making it F2P will not make PFO any better though it might bring in some players to try it for a month before the newness wears off and they get tired of the bugs and problems it does have and leaves.

     

      Now if your saying you and your guild would be willing to sub if PFO went F2P even if only for a month or 2 then that's a different story.  Sure we all want things for free, and hope others will pay for our play time, but I doubt that all F2P conversions = more money. A bad game that not worth the money is still a bad game not worth the money when its F2P and you can buy a nifty horse or lock box key is it not??? Not saying PFO online is bad I personally haven't played it but the reviews so far seem to point in that direction

     

    My guild would not pay for a game that is more incomplete and less fun than the game we are currently playing. My guild would also not start to play pathfinder years from now when it may be fun and complete enough, at a massive skill point disadvantage.

     

    The point being the way they are monetizing the game is preventing many of the niche players this game is trying to cater to from ever even giving it a shot.

     

    If it was F2P we could all be gaining XP and years from now when it may be an actual game and not something that resembles a high school computer science project we would all be on the same level. 

     

    Competitive guilds will not be wanting to jump into pathfinder at a massive disadvantage years from now. We also wont play for a game in the pitiful state Pathfinder is currently at.

     A worthy and honest answer.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    Originally posted by mrneurosis
     How you think they will turn it into a fully fleshed game without more money? magic?

    I don't think they will flesh it out at all.

    Subscription or f2p - the game will never generate enough money to become something big.

    Harbinger of Fools
  • reeereeereeereee Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by mrneurosis
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    I don't think f2p will help this game. It's pretty niche (which is perfectly fine) and the most loyal players who are willing to ignore bugs and the lack of features are already ingame.

     

    The broad majority who would join on a f2p conversion wouldn't be so forgiving.

    In the end they would leave again and PO would miss out on some subscription money.

     

    The only thing that will help PO in the long run is to turn this into a fully fleshed out game.

    Ofcourse sub model is the problem. OP clearly mentioned that PO has few hundred players right now which are not enough for extensive development of game in future. How you think they will turn it into a fully fleshed game without more money? magic?

    Unfortunately going F2P doesn't actually make your game any more fun.  While normally F2P is a nice boost to the budget this is a niche game in early development.  I don't know that you can guarantee that the loss in subscription fees will be made up in the cash shop.  A few hundred subscribers might be about what this game should have right now. 

  • caremuchlesscaremuchless Member Posts: 603
    Originally posted by Wizardry

     

    You don't rate a game by it's payment plan,rating and review should be completely different topics.

    It's funny you say that.

     

    When GuildWars2 was in it's Hype Mode, there were many Poll Threads that were "What is GW2 Best Feature?"

    The people spoke, "NO MONTHLY CHARGE!"  

     

    I still disagree and think the people are a bunch of idiots.  'Payment plan' is not the foundation of a game.

    image

  • mrneurosismrneurosis Member UncommonPosts: 300
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by mrneurosis
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    I don't think f2p will help this game. It's pretty niche (which is perfectly fine) and the most loyal players who are willing to ignore bugs and the lack of features are already ingame.

     

    The broad majority who would join on a f2p conversion wouldn't be so forgiving.

    In the end they would leave again and PO would miss out on some subscription money.

     

    The only thing that will help PO in the long run is to turn this into a fully fleshed out game.

    Ofcourse sub model is the problem. OP clearly mentioned that PO has few hundred players right now which are not enough for extensive development of game in future. How you think they will turn it into a fully fleshed game without more money? magic?

    Unfortunately going F2P doesn't actually make your game any more fun.  While normally F2P is a nice boost to the budget this is a niche game in early development.  I don't know that you can guarantee that the loss in subscription fees will be made up in the cash shop.  A few hundred subscribers might be about what this game should have right now. 

    Clearly, it does not seem enough right now.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219
    Originally posted by caremuchless
    Originally posted by Wizardry

     

    You don't rate a game by it's payment plan,rating and review should be completely different topics.

    It's funny you say that.

     

    When GuildWars2 was in it's Hype Mode, there were many Poll Threads that were "What is GW2 Best Feature?"

    The people spoke, "NO MONTHLY CHARGE!"  

     

    I still disagree and think the people are a bunch of idiots.  'Payment plan' is not the foundation of a game.

    Ryan Dancey absolutely nailed the relevance/importance of  Pricing + Progression. They're integral to each other due to PERSISTENCE or as Ramin Shokrizade put's it "Stored Value" aka "Equity".

    However the actual implementation, I think there's a far superior way of pricing and if so, that would indeed rip up a great deal of the game design consequentially.

    There's a good article on this (although SWTOR appears to have actually done quite well after F2P conversion despite the author's misgivings):-

     

    The Burning of Star Wars: The Old Republic

     

    The key for PFO growth is via the Group's Recruitment based off their successful in-game gameplay leading to higher growth than other groups, which leads to higher demand but also better supply for and of NEW PLAYERS.

    When PFO hits that (if?) then it will have succeeded with it's game design and game development and marketing and pricing will THEN be modifiable with positive effects, it seems to me. However it's gotta hit that point. I think if they keep dev'ing away and manage to get enough funds to do so until 2016-17, suddenly the game will turn a corner and be profitable and sustainable and actually appeal to a enough people.

  • AudoucetAudoucet Member UncommonPosts: 69

    https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/3415/?page=3  

    " 3. The review was done from the stand point of a reader base that is immovable in their stance that it is a finished product because to play, you must pay a subscription. Fair enough, but….

    ****a. Nothing was said about the endless posts by enthusiastic players that PfO is not a finished game.
    ****b. No mention of many posts explaining that it isn't out to attract players like a "Big Gold Launch" MMO.
    ****c. No mention of the countless examples of advice "It sounds like this game isn't for you yet, and that's OK" "

    GW's move to create their own forums was a good one, at least you can't answer these nonsenses if you don't actually pay a subscription.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by Audoucet

    https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/3415/?page=3  

    " 3. The review was done from the stand point of a reader base that is immovable in their stance that it is a finished product because to play, you must pay a subscription. Fair enough, but….

    ****a. Nothing was said about the endless posts by enthusiastic players that PfO is not a finished game.
    ****b. No mention of many posts explaining that it isn't out to attract players like a "Big Gold Launch" MMO.
    ****c. No mention of the countless examples of advice "It sounds like this game isn't for you yet, and that's OK" "

    GW's move to create their own forums was a good one, at least you can't answer these nonsenses if you don't actually pay a subscription.

    All I see is a bunch of excuses, except for why their game is unfinished and they are charging $15/mo for it.

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,708
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by Audoucet

    https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/3415/?page=3  

    " 3. The review was done from the stand point of a reader base that is immovable in their stance that it is a finished product because to play, you must pay a subscription. Fair enough, but….

    ****a. Nothing was said about the endless posts by enthusiastic players that PfO is not a finished game.
    ****b. No mention of many posts explaining that it isn't out to attract players like a "Big Gold Launch" MMO.
    ****c. No mention of the countless examples of advice "It sounds like this game isn't for you yet, and that's OK" "

    GW's move to create their own forums was a good one, at least you can't answer these nonsenses if you don't actually pay a subscription.

    All I see is a bunch of excuses, except for why their game is unfinished and they are charging $15/mo for it.

    "What endless posts by enthusiastic players?" was my first thought actually. image

    At this point their game is catching a Wildstar level of flack, minus having the benefit of Wildstar having sold much more copies. (And probably having several times the subscribers that PFO has)

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • AndiusMeuridiarAndiusMeuridiar Member UncommonPosts: 91
    Originally posted by rsdancey

     


    For those that wonder why I post this here, instead of on the GW forums, it should be obvious...  It would get deleted.

     

    That's a ridiculous assertion.

    No it's really not. I had multiple threads no more volatile than this locked for "baiting" on the Paizo boards while Spitfire got away with attacking me in the OP of one of his threads and I even got away with doing it to Bluddwolf myself back before my fall from favor.

    Maybe you run things differently on the GW board and don't have Chris Lambertz over there but heavy handed, overzealous moderation rife with favoritism toward the Everbloom Alliance is something I and the members of Aragon came to know and expect from you* on the Paizo boards.

    * "You" referring to Goblinworks/Paizo. 

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,596
    Originally posted by F0URTWENTY

     

     The CEO is trying to sell Eve's real time skill system, not a good game.

     

    This.

    You make the game F2P, and they lose the sub advantage they get from having a realtime based XP system.

    I'd bet there's a huge chunk of subs from players aren't playing the game, just scooping up the XP and waiting for an enjoyable game to be coalesce.  They go F2P, they lose all that revenue.

    Any F2P accounts they pick up will probably be doing the same thing:  setting off their XP advancement and logging off to play something else.

  • AndiusMeuridiarAndiusMeuridiar Member UncommonPosts: 91

    Free to play =/= free to train.

    What I've been suggesting is the go freemium and attach training time and the usage/creation of 2nd and 3rd tier gear along with the gathering of 2nd and third tier materials to the premium sub.

    That allows people to get a very good feel for the game and take part in the community for free while making premium a must have for anyone really serious about it. it also puts more players in the world which are desperately needed at this point.

    Their own version of EVE's plex system and cutting sub price to something more reasonable for what they have to offer would also go a long way.

  • AudoucetAudoucet Member UncommonPosts: 69
    Originally posted by AndiusMeuridiar

    Free to play =/= free to train.

    What I've been suggesting is the go freemium and attach training time and the usage/creation of 2nd and 3rd tier gear along with the gathering of 2nd and third tier materials to the premium sub.

    That allows people to get a very good feel for the game and take part in the community for free while making premium a must have for anyone really serious about it. it also puts more players in the world which are desperately needed at this point.

    Their own version of EVE's plex system and cutting sub price to something more reasonable for what they have to offer would also go a long way.

    And to be fair, that's exactly what it was supposed to be. It was just a few months before launch, that they suddenly decided that you wouldn't be able to play without a sub. It was approximately around the same time that they confessed, that you could max a character role within 2.5 years.

    Before that, the game was supposed to be F2P, with a sub to gain XP.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219
    Originally posted by Audoucet
    Originally posted by AndiusMeuridiar

    Free to play =/= free to train.

    What I've been suggesting is the go freemium and attach training time and the usage/creation of 2nd and 3rd tier gear along with the gathering of 2nd and third tier materials to the premium sub.

    That allows people to get a very good feel for the game and take part in the community for free while making premium a must have for anyone really serious about it. it also puts more players in the world which are desperately needed at this point.

    Their own version of EVE's plex system and cutting sub price to something more reasonable for what they have to offer would also go a long way.

    And to be fair, that's exactly what it was supposed to be. It was just a few months before launch, that they suddenly decided that you wouldn't be able to play without a sub. It was approximately around the same time that they confessed, that you could max a character role within 2.5 years.

    Before that, the game was supposed to be F2P, with a sub to gain XP.

    Good point: From what I remember, I've got to agree with this "change".

    In fact my last post until I spin out my next blog; but the idea I have resolves things such as this in a really good way. :-)

  • BringsliteBringslite Member UncommonPosts: 75
    Originally posted by Audoucet

    https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/3415/?page=3  

    " 3. The review was done from the stand point of a reader base that is immovable in their stance that it is a finished product because to play, you must pay a subscription. Fair enough, but….

    ****a. Nothing was said about the endless posts by enthusiastic players that PfO is not a finished game.
    ****b. No mention of many posts explaining that it isn't out to attract players like a "Big Gold Launch" MMO.
    ****c. No mention of the countless examples of advice "It sounds like this game isn't for you yet, and that's OK" "

    GW's move to create their own forums was a good one, at least you can't answer these nonsenses if you don't actually pay a subscription.

    Still forging ahead with the selective sections of posts are we, Audoucet?

    "My truths, the selected truths that support my truths, and nothing but the parts which support my truths... so help me Zog!"

    Pathfinder Online has plenty of things to point out that will discourage  more than 99.5% of MMO players right now. I have decided to let you spew without too much challenge. I realize that your vendetta? fixation? whatever is pretty important to you. Carry on.

    Thumbs up Buddy!

    No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
    Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
    Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
    ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com

  • AudoucetAudoucet Member UncommonPosts: 69

    People can always look for themselves, but I'm not cruel enough to inflict your entire ramblings unto them.

    And by the way :

    "My truths, the selected truths that support my truths, and nothing but the parts which support my truths... so help me Zog!"

    Zog being PFO's former test server, are you quoting Ryan or what ?

  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,061

    Let me see if I understand you correctly, the game in its current state isn't worth a sub so lets add a "cash shop" so that when it is worth a sub we will have a sub and a cash shop.

     

    Brilliant.

     

    How about don't play until its worth it too you.  Just stop with the real money cash shop is the answer to every problem.

  • AndiusMeuridiarAndiusMeuridiar Member UncommonPosts: 91
    This company will go belly up long before it is ever worth a 15$ sub if they continue to use that as their sole revenue source. It's a long shot either way but a freemium model (Which is what they've always said they'll have once they reach "Open Enrollment") wod certainly slow the bleeding and give them more time to get back on course.

    @Audocet. They actually sold sub time during the second kickstarted and it's been known Early Enrollment would be sub based for a long time. But that was when Ryan was talking about "letting in" a wave of a couple thousand players each month.

    The fact they haven't changed the sub model already to account for their tiny population is proof of gross incompetence, and truly makes me wonder whether they are that far out of touch with reality or perhaps are just trying to keep things running long enough to avoid too much public backlash for failing to deliver a decent game after taking over a million dollars of their supporters money, while knowing that the "It's been a nice run but..." announcement can't be avoided at this point.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    The problem isn't really if the game is F2P or P2P, in either case the game isn't in shape yet for charging anything.

    The games review wouldn't change if they skipped the monthly fees and started to sell items instead, it is just too early in development to start earning money off.

    The real problem here is that Goblin works don't have the money to make a MMO and that leads to a long paid alpha  and beta.

    It isn't the first time a game started charging way too early, AoC did the same and others did before it as well. None of the games that did this had a very happy story however, they got crappy reviews and turned away most potential players and PFO is taking this further than any other company have before.

    Now, I am not sure how they could finance this in another way but this is a road to disaster, and it is too bad since Pathfinder really have a lot of potential. Most players will not give the game a new chance when it finally is ready, or they didn't with the other games who started charging too early before it at least.

    The only way I see now would be doing something like FFXIV did after it's crappy launch and find some money so they can stop charging until the game is ready. But sadly I think we are looking on another failure due to an early release. :(

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