MS isn't Apple. MS predominantly sells software, Windows and Office. Using a model like Apple would not be possible since Apple sells hardware. Microsoft's model is quite a bit better as well considering the massively larger install base. It would be quite foolish for Microsoft to copy Apple. If Microsoft ever does move to a free upgrade path, then it would be because they have found a better revenue model. Considering the openness for vendors on Microsoft's platform, I doubt they make up for the sales from the Windows Store.
I think Microsoft supports an OS for too long. Many that use the older OS beyond 5 years are corporate with controlled systems. These machines are already locked down with a team of support that maintains them. Its really unnecessary for MS to support a Windows version beyond that point. The more secure stuff is usually not on a Windows version in the first place since its less secure by design.
As much as I would like to see "free" releases, I don't think anyone here is advocating that MS take on Apple's financial model.
Their update schedule - yes. Their model of introducing change to the UI - yes.
But their financial model - nope. I'm ok with paying a bit for software that I use. With Apple, I know I'm paying for that with the hardware (although there was a time where they did charge $25 or so for major updates, it only came back to "free" recently). With Microsoft, I'm ok paying for a Windows release.
Worst thing of all is that Mickey$oft still think that they have the superior OS, while Linux and OSX are steadily gaining on them Though both still have a very small portion of the market (~5% combined), bad decisions like this might push more and more customers away. With SteamOS also around the corner and more and games on Steam (even the big AAA titles) to run on SteamOS, Linux in general might finally become a big thing.
An the other hand, as indie game developer WinX might be a a MUST for me for DirectX 12 and the easier connection to XBOX ONE through the MS Store. But if WinX comes at a price like this, I'd much rather skip that ship and keep my games for DX9/11 instead. Not that DX12 will be a big thing for the coming 2-3 years because only the most recent GPUs will support it...
Originally posted by Thupli Time for me to start seriously considering Linux.
Same here. Right now I'm running Linux from a 4Gb USB stick to get used to it and looking through my library what games and tools are running under Linux. Also a good thing that unity only recently announced that they're porting the engine to Linux as well. I guess when Unity will be available, it's time to install Linux in dual-boot with my Win7.
Lol, of course Microsoft is the best. Stop kidding yourself, those other operating systems aren't gaining on anyone. People who have to work for a living or want to play/accomplish something while not working, use Windows.
They can't be so stupid that they'd stop security updates after only 2-4 years, can they?
I think everyone expects them to try to make the money from all the free updates they offer in some way, but if they're planning to start charging money for fixing security holes in their own product that's a new low.
Originally posted by Thupli Time for me to start seriously considering Linux.
Same here. Right now I'm running Linux from a 4Gb USB stick to get used to it and looking through my library what games and tools are running under Linux.
Lol, of course Microsoft is the best. Stop kidding yourself, those other operating systems aren't gaining on anyone. People who have to work for a living or want to play/accomplish something while not working, use Windows.
The funny thing is, Linux on desktops actually dropped below 1% marketshare.
SteamOS is not helping the downward spiral
I don't think Linux distros are even in the top 10 OS on desktops anymore.
You have Windows, Mac OS, Chrome, and then you have a host of OS based off of Unix and Windows, like ReactOS, GhostBSD, desktop OS that are popular in Russia and China.
Linux on desktop has probably been below 1% marketshare for years, t's just that some people add chrome OS with the linux distros, so the stats are deceptive at best.
The only surprising thing is that it took Microsoft several days to shoot down the rumors. Basically, they're going to do with Windows 10 what they've done with many other previous versions of Windows: at least 10 years of patches, and then decide several years from now whether to extend that beyond ten years.
If everyone auto-updated, you wouldn't need to keep servers with different versions of IE on them for testing, because everyone would always be on the latest one.
It's no joke when ppl talk about how IE lagged behind in web standards. Then you have a browser like Opera that was on the forefront and about 50 ppl use it. Go figure.
I've used Opera as my primary browser since 2001. In fact, I'm even posting from it now. Chrome is similar enough that at least there's a viable enough backup when some site mysteriously decides that it doesn't like Opera.
I use Opera and IE. Don't use Chrome because its Google. I figure any Google product will data mine the hell out of the consumer. Use IE primarily for IE dependent sites and Opera for everything else.
Originally posted by Thupli Time for me to start seriously considering Linux.
Same here. Right now I'm running Linux from a 4Gb USB stick to get used to it and looking through my library what games and tools are running under Linux.
Have fun with your graphics from the 90s and indie garbage.
Did you even LOOK at the site you linked? "This article is incomplete. Please help to improve it, or discuss the issue on the talk page. (September 2014)" The list contains like 250 games? While a quick search on Steam already shows 10 times that number and growing. Not only indie games on Steam are running Linux, but also quite a number of AAA titles are running under Linux. And with Valve having signed an agreement with some major AAA-developers to port games to SteamOS (basically Linux), the number of games on the platform will only grow.
Originally posted by Thupli Time for me to start seriously considering Linux.
Same here. Right now I'm running Linux from a 4Gb USB stick to get used to it and looking through my library what games and tools are running under Linux.
Have fun with your graphics from the 90s and indie garbage.
Did you even LOOK at the site you linked? "This article is incomplete. Please help to improve it, or discuss the issue on the talk page. (September 2014)" The list contains like 250 games? While a quick search on Steam already shows 10 times that number and growing. Not only indie games on Steam are running Linux, but also quite a number of AAA titles are running under Linux. And with Valve having signed an agreement with some major AAA-developers to port games to SteamOS (basically Linux), the number of games on the platform will only grow.
lol, SteamOS
SteamOS has failed months ago, you should read this article:
Why would anyone use a clumsy Steam Controller on their couch when they can use superior PS4 or Xbox controllers and play games actually made to be used with a controller.
If you haven't realized that SteamOS has failed by now, I don't know which cave you have been living in, guess you still think Google Glass is a success too.
Even the "Steam machine" PC some OEM had for sale, have been long pulled from their sites months ago.
And if you want a piece of advice, don't waste your money on SteamOS, and don't waste your time with Linux on desktop.
I've been in your position several times in the past, convinced, by others, that Linux on desktop is cool and useful and is somehow miraculously gaining support and THIS YEAR, Linux will get better. Trying out loads of different distros, installing Gnome and KDE, realizing what an incredible bloated mess KDE is.
Eventually going to Ubuntu after realizing that all those other distros are loaded with bugs, wasting my time on forums trying to get working drivers, getting more and more frustrated, and eventually going back to Windows after realizing Ubuntu is just as bad as all the others and the people who said Linux on desktop is great, are liars, because 99% of them were writing on the forum from a Windows machine.
Let's not even get started on the lack of software. I didn't buy a powerful PC to install a glorified browser and email client. I want to use Corel, D'assault, Autodesk, ...you know, SOFTWARE. Linux has a horrendous software library.
There are no standards on Linux, every distro uses a different file manager, different package managers. It's a freaking mess!
Linux has terrible driver support, things you take for granted like codecs, support, stability, are completely missing on Linux. It's a frustrating OS, with lack of support, and the only thing that it does, is waste your time.
The Linux community? It sucks. The Windows community is helpful and tries to find a solution. The Linux community doesn't understand the first thing about testing new builds and how to assist someone. It's full of people who's main goal is to belittle someone else, "if you're not using the terminal you should go back to windows", "if your driver doesn't work, make your own", "Ubuntu issue -> "use a real distro" jesus christ, and these people wonder why no one uses Linux.
My time is too valuable to waste on Linux.
And I'm not against open source projects. My favorite browser is Firefox on Windows and I love it, it's stable and extremely useful. But Linux on desktop is a horrible horrible mess and a waste of people's time.
Considering Windows 10 is supposed to be "the last Windows" release and considering that when people upgrade from 7 to 10 their serial key is "consumed" with debated rollback procedures, chances are it could be a complicated process to rollback if system becomes corrupted and the fact that by the time Windows 7 expires you will probably buy a Windows 10 PC, the fact that you will have to pay to have multiple PC's "updated" to me says everyone better not upgrade from Windows 7 and just hold onto it and don't do the free upgrade until you buy a new PC with 10 built in.
When everything is taken into consideration, the free upgrade really doesn't seem like such a good idea, i'll just hang onto my 7 so I can always have a PC to use that I don't have to pay to upgrade/update.
MS got the leading edge gamers by the balls here, no Win10=no DX12
Originally posted by Deznts Originally posted by BraindomeConsidering Windows 10 is supposed to be "the last Windows" release and considering that when people upgrade from 7 to 10 their serial key is "consumed" with debated rollback procedures, chances are it could be a complicated process to rollback if system becomes corrupted and the fact that by the time Windows 7 expires you will probably buy a Windows 10 PC, the fact that you will have to pay to have multiple PC's "updated" to me says everyone better not upgrade from Windows 7 and just hold onto it and don't do the free upgrade until you buy a new PC with 10 built in.When everything is taken into consideration, the free upgrade really doesn't seem like such a good idea, i'll just hang onto my 7 so I can always have a PC to use that I don't have to pay to upgrade/update.
MS got the leading edge gamers by the balls here, no Win10=no DX12
Originally posted by BraindomeConsidering Windows 10 is supposed to be "the last Windows" release and considering that when people upgrade from 7 to 10 their serial key is "consumed" with debated rollback procedures, chances are it could be a complicated process to rollback if system becomes corrupted and the fact that by the time Windows 7 expires you will probably buy a Windows 10 PC, the fact that you will have to pay to have multiple PC's "updated" to me says everyone better not upgrade from Windows 7 and just hold onto it and don't do the free upgrade until you buy a new PC with 10 built in.When everything is taken into consideration, the free upgrade really doesn't seem like such a good idea, i'll just hang onto my 7 so I can always have a PC to use that I don't have to pay to upgrade/update.
MS got the leading edge gamers by the balls here, no Win10=no DX12
Just like DX10=Vista eh?
Just like Vista was a free upgrade that MS tried to get everyone to migrate to from 98/98SE/2000/ME/XP? No wait, no similarities here. Carry on.
Originally posted by Thupli Time for me to start seriously considering Linux.
Yupp. To me personally, the only advantage Win has over Linux is DirectX for gaming, for obvious reasons. For now, i would dual boot. Gaming on Win, everything else on Linux. That will be my OS setup when i build my new PC. Wont bother with that with my current old junk.
The only place this is an issue is for a few on boards like this. The vast majority of people that use computers have no idea what linux is. They have one choice and it is windows. That is the way it is going to stay as well.
Lot of rumours, and speculation to get a few people upset...less than a blink to most people that will never care.
I have a Windows PC for gaming. That's it. I play games on it, browse the web and stuff, maybe watch some netflix.
Everything else - I do on the Mac. All my work. Stuff that absolutely requires Windows, for work, I run in a VM - and there isn't a lot of that. MS Project and ... some PLC programming tools. Everything else I'm able to do on the OS X side as well as I could with Windows.
I like Linux, don't get me wrong. It's probably the best server I've ever done work on. But I don't use it as a desktop - I use OSX and a lot of various shell tools to interface with Linux.
As far as Windows 10 being "free upgrade", or Windows 7 not costing you anything - umm... you already paid for Windows 7 in some fashion, so it wasn't free, and updates for that run out eventually. Yes, there is a promotion right now to upgrade to Windows 10, but it isn't free for new computers or new users, or people outside the terms of the limited time promotional campaign, so it's not like a Service Pack upgrade or anything. When you buy Windows, you are also buying a limited time period of semi-guaranteed support - in terms of upgrades and patches and whatnot.
That's all the original article was talking about, and Microsoft has since come back and committed to their "typical" 5+5 year support cycle that has been on most recent editions of Windows. Once that 5+5 runs out, your done on upgrades/updates/support, like it or not. Windows 7 runs out sooner than later - it's already in the extended 5 year support, which means it will only get critical patches from here on out, and there is no more tech support from Microsoft available.
When it was stated that DX12 will drive adoption, my counter to that was that DX10 didn't do anything to drive adoption: developers largely ignored it since it didn't line up well with Console ports, and users weren't clamouring for it since Vista had a host of other problems - so it never took off. Even DX11 hasn't really driven software sales, it still doesn't have a juggernaut of support behind it.
Personally i'll be waiting to see how the launch progresses, and whether or not Third Party antivirus/firewalls are all that well supported in Win10, i've never yet seen a version of Windows that did not need a credible replacement for the built in firewalls etc, that comes with Windows.
Windows firewall is perfectly fine. It's one thing to say you want something with more bells and whistles or an easier to use interface, but to claim it's not "credible" just reeks of misinformation.
Comments
MS isn't Apple. MS predominantly sells software, Windows and Office. Using a model like Apple would not be possible since Apple sells hardware. Microsoft's model is quite a bit better as well considering the massively larger install base. It would be quite foolish for Microsoft to copy Apple. If Microsoft ever does move to a free upgrade path, then it would be because they have found a better revenue model. Considering the openness for vendors on Microsoft's platform, I doubt they make up for the sales from the Windows Store.
I think Microsoft supports an OS for too long. Many that use the older OS beyond 5 years are corporate with controlled systems. These machines are already locked down with a team of support that maintains them. Its really unnecessary for MS to support a Windows version beyond that point. The more secure stuff is usually not on a Windows version in the first place since its less secure by design.
As much as I would like to see "free" releases, I don't think anyone here is advocating that MS take on Apple's financial model.
Their update schedule - yes. Their model of introducing change to the UI - yes.
But their financial model - nope. I'm ok with paying a bit for software that I use. With Apple, I know I'm paying for that with the hardware (although there was a time where they did charge $25 or so for major updates, it only came back to "free" recently). With Microsoft, I'm ok paying for a Windows release.
Lol, of course Microsoft is the best. Stop kidding yourself, those other operating systems aren't gaining on anyone. People who have to work for a living or want to play/accomplish something while not working, use Windows.
Two words: Windows Millenium. 'Nuff said.
Minesweeper and Tetris.
Here is a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_games
Have fun with your graphics from the 90s and indie garbage.
The funny thing is, Linux on desktops actually dropped below 1% marketshare.
SteamOS is not helping the downward spiral
I don't think Linux distros are even in the top 10 OS on desktops anymore.
You have Windows, Mac OS, Chrome, and then you have a host of OS based off of Unix and Windows, like ReactOS, GhostBSD, desktop OS that are popular in Russia and China.
Linux on desktop has probably been below 1% marketshare for years, t's just that some people add chrome OS with the linux distros, so the stats are deceptive at best.
http://www.geek.com/games/steam-isnt-helping-gaming-grow-on-linux-usage-drops-to-less-than-1-1623519/
and the desktop Linux distros are dying too
http://techreport.com/news/28657/microsoft-promises-at-least-10-years-of-support-for-win10
The only surprising thing is that it took Microsoft several days to shoot down the rumors. Basically, they're going to do with Windows 10 what they've done with many other previous versions of Windows: at least 10 years of patches, and then decide several years from now whether to extend that beyond ten years.
The counter to that:
If everyone auto-updated, you wouldn't need to keep servers with different versions of IE on them for testing, because everyone would always be on the latest one.
I've used Opera as my primary browser since 2001. In fact, I'm even posting from it now. Chrome is similar enough that at least there's a viable enough backup when some site mysteriously decides that it doesn't like Opera.
Did you even LOOK at the site you linked? "This article is incomplete. Please help to improve it, or discuss the issue on the talk page. (September 2014)" The list contains like 250 games? While a quick search on Steam already shows 10 times that number and growing. Not only indie games on Steam are running Linux, but also quite a number of AAA titles are running under Linux. And with Valve having signed an agreement with some major AAA-developers to port games to SteamOS (basically Linux), the number of games on the platform will only grow.
lol, SteamOS
SteamOS has failed months ago, you should read this article:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/01/24/steam-machines-are-pointless-and-valve-is-struggling-to-keep-steamos-relevant/
Why would anyone use a clumsy Steam Controller on their couch when they can use superior PS4 or Xbox controllers and play games actually made to be used with a controller.
If you haven't realized that SteamOS has failed by now, I don't know which cave you have been living in, guess you still think Google Glass is a success too.Even the "Steam machine" PC some OEM had for sale, have been long pulled from their sites months ago.
And if you want a piece of advice, don't waste your money on SteamOS, and don't waste your time with Linux on desktop.
I've been in your position several times in the past, convinced, by others, that Linux on desktop is cool and useful and is somehow miraculously gaining support and THIS YEAR, Linux will get better. Trying out loads of different distros, installing Gnome and KDE, realizing what an incredible bloated mess KDE is.
Eventually going to Ubuntu after realizing that all those other distros are loaded with bugs, wasting my time on forums trying to get working drivers, getting more and more frustrated, and eventually going back to Windows after realizing Ubuntu is just as bad as all the others and the people who said Linux on desktop is great, are liars, because 99% of them were writing on the forum from a Windows machine.
Let's not even get started on the lack of software. I didn't buy a powerful PC to install a glorified browser and email client. I want to use Corel, D'assault, Autodesk, ...you know, SOFTWARE. Linux has a horrendous software library.
There are no standards on Linux, every distro uses a different file manager, different package managers. It's a freaking mess!
Linux has terrible driver support, things you take for granted like codecs, support, stability, are completely missing on Linux. It's a frustrating OS, with lack of support, and the only thing that it does, is waste your time.
The Linux community? It sucks. The Windows community is helpful and tries to find a solution. The Linux community doesn't understand the first thing about testing new builds and how to assist someone. It's full of people who's main goal is to belittle someone else, "if you're not using the terminal you should go back to windows", "if your driver doesn't work, make your own", "Ubuntu issue -> "use a real distro" jesus christ, and these people wonder why no one uses Linux.
My time is too valuable to waste on Linux.
And I'm not against open source projects. My favorite browser is Firefox on Windows and I love it, it's stable and extremely useful. But Linux on desktop is a horrible horrible mess and a waste of people's time.
MS got the leading edge gamers by the balls here, no Win10=no DX12
Just like DX10=Vista eh?
Just like Vista was a free upgrade that MS tried to get everyone to migrate to from 98/98SE/2000/ME/XP? No wait, no similarities here. Carry on.
Yupp. To me personally, the only advantage Win has over Linux is DirectX for gaming, for obvious reasons. For now, i would dual boot. Gaming on Win, everything else on Linux. That will be my OS setup when i build my new PC. Wont bother with that with my current old junk.
The only place this is an issue is for a few on boards like this. The vast majority of people that use computers have no idea what linux is. They have one choice and it is windows. That is the way it is going to stay as well.
Lot of rumours, and speculation to get a few people upset...less than a blink to most people that will never care.
Bought a Mac is what I did.
I have a Windows PC for gaming. That's it. I play games on it, browse the web and stuff, maybe watch some netflix.
Everything else - I do on the Mac. All my work. Stuff that absolutely requires Windows, for work, I run in a VM - and there isn't a lot of that. MS Project and ... some PLC programming tools. Everything else I'm able to do on the OS X side as well as I could with Windows.
I like Linux, don't get me wrong. It's probably the best server I've ever done work on. But I don't use it as a desktop - I use OSX and a lot of various shell tools to interface with Linux.
As far as Windows 10 being "free upgrade", or Windows 7 not costing you anything - umm... you already paid for Windows 7 in some fashion, so it wasn't free, and updates for that run out eventually. Yes, there is a promotion right now to upgrade to Windows 10, but it isn't free for new computers or new users, or people outside the terms of the limited time promotional campaign, so it's not like a Service Pack upgrade or anything. When you buy Windows, you are also buying a limited time period of semi-guaranteed support - in terms of upgrades and patches and whatnot.
That's all the original article was talking about, and Microsoft has since come back and committed to their "typical" 5+5 year support cycle that has been on most recent editions of Windows. Once that 5+5 runs out, your done on upgrades/updates/support, like it or not. Windows 7 runs out sooner than later - it's already in the extended 5 year support, which means it will only get critical patches from here on out, and there is no more tech support from Microsoft available.
When it was stated that DX12 will drive adoption, my counter to that was that DX10 didn't do anything to drive adoption: developers largely ignored it since it didn't line up well with Console ports, and users weren't clamouring for it since Vista had a host of other problems - so it never took off. Even DX11 hasn't really driven software sales, it still doesn't have a juggernaut of support behind it.
Windows firewall is perfectly fine. It's one thing to say you want something with more bells and whistles or an easier to use interface, but to claim it's not "credible" just reeks of misinformation.