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CIG unilaterally refunds Derek Smart's Kickstarter pledge

RollgunnerRollgunner Member UncommonPosts: 61

*EDIT* *EDIT*

Apparently, The original story is true as confirmed by a SC rep:

 CIG unilaterally refunds Derek Smart's Kickstarter pledge for SC

I'll maintain my opinion that silencing your critics is a bad idea.

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Comments

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    His money's clearly no longer welcome! image

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,971
    Wow! They surely showed him



  • RollgunnerRollgunner Member UncommonPosts: 61


    Originally posted by Torval I don't think it's dangerous or a precedent at all. Business I have worked for have, without prior warning to the customer, stopped business with them and refunded their entire payment. Some customers are bad for your business. It's better that they go elsewhere. Derek Smart got what he had coming. As an industry insider (I know that's a stretch) and a public figure his criticism of the company, the message, and the way it was delivered  is such that this shouldn't be unexpected. I applaud CIG for both refunding and for sending that message.
    But if the customer was released from their business agreement (presumably) because they thought said business was operating in a corrupt fashion, then we're back to the Appearance of Impropriety again.

    Appearance of Impropriety

    Whether they intended to or not, in the common man's mind, they have lent some air of credibility to Smart's claims by unexpectedly dropping him as a customer.

  • DeniZgDeniZg Member UncommonPosts: 697

    Not sure if that is even legal.

    But, CIG has clearly shown that Derek Smart was right or at least on that he knew what he was talking about.

    If they were better and smarter than him, they would have publicly invited him to see the how the game is developing (if there is any development at all).

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,746
    Yeah, they just made him relevant again.

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Rollgunner

     


    Originally posted by Torval I don't think it's dangerous or a precedent at all. Business I have worked for have, without prior warning to the customer, stopped business with them and refunded their entire payment. Some customers are bad for your business. It's better that they go elsewhere. Derek Smart got what he had coming. As an industry insider (I know that's a stretch) and a public figure his criticism of the company, the message, and the way it was delivered  is such that this shouldn't be unexpected. I applaud CIG for both refunding and for sending that message.
    But if the customer was released from their business agreement (presumably) because they thought said business was operating in a corrupt fashion, then we're back to the Appearance of Impropriety again.

     

    Appearance of Impropriety

    Whether they intended to or not, in the common man's mind, they have lent some air of credibility to Smart's claims by unexpectedly dropping him as a customer.

    All it really shows is that they don't want his money, at least to me.. Which I viewed what he did as grandstanding atop a glass house, no more no less. I'm sure anyone who has a picture they want to paint of the situation could brush it with a number of broad strokes. The problem for me is there are far too many agendas in regard to discussion on this game, folks who don't like CR, folks who don't like Crowd Funding, the vaporware crowd, that's excluding the usual groups surrounding typical MMO discussion...etc..etc..etc...

    AT this point it's hard to expect any discussion on this game to harbor any real facts, it almost always degrades into tirades by the groups I pointed out prior. A bunch of hearsay, conjecture, speculation, hyperbole as well as sensationalism. I've seen enough of it at this point to just take a wait and see approach.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KatillaKatilla Member UncommonPosts: 829
    Originally posted by DeniZg

    Not sure if that is even legal.

    But, CIG has clearly shown that Derek Smart was right or at least on that he knew what he was talking about.

    If they were better and smarter than him, they would have publicly invited him to see the how the game is developing (if there is any development at all).

    Just want to point out that this guy isn't what people think he is.

    "Sometimes when I get online, and it's quiet, and I see something that attracts my attention, I'll post just to piss these guys off. That's why I do it. Because I'm in a good mood that day, I go in there and I start trouble."

    http://www.3000ad.com/press/ds_interview_cgw0401.jpg

     

    Yup.  People take this guy seriously?

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823
    Meh , sometimes as a business you get tired of dealing with troublesome people and decide to stop doing business with them. I see nothing wrong with dismissing a disgruntled client. That said , the action taken may stir up other clients , so CGI need to get on the ball and be more open or show greater progress.

    image
  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785

    Derek Smart: "Show the game or give back money."

    CIG: *Hands back money*

    Everyone else: So..... wat happen?

    Erillion: "Have fun"

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    Originally posted by DeniZg

    Not sure if that is even legal.

    Yes, any business has the legal right to refuse servicing a client (which means refund if the product haven't been delivered yet).

  • DeniZgDeniZg Member UncommonPosts: 697
    Originally posted by Katilla

    Just want to point out that this guy isn't what people think he is.

    "Sometimes when I get online, and it's quiet, and I see something that attracts my attention, I'll post just to piss these guys off. That's why I do it. Because I'm in a good mood that day, I go in there and I start trouble."

    http://www.3000ad.com/press/ds_interview_cgw0401.jpg

     

    Yup.  People take this guy seriously?

    Well, CIG obviously does. Otherwise, they would ignore him.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Yeah, they just made him relevant again.

    HAHA, I'll just repost this...

    "Sometimes when I get online, and it's quiet, and I see something that attracts my attention, I'll post just to piss these guys off. That's why I do it. Because I'm in a good mood that day, I go in there and I start trouble." Derek Smart....

    http://www.3000ad.com/press/ds_interview_cgw0401.jpg

    The guy is an attention whore, he would do nothing but use that pledge as his proverbial lighting rod to cause a scene..... Come on now. They took away his crutch..

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584

    if anyone who is a backer thinks what derek said is true then they also can request the same thing, not biggie, most bussiness don't take certain clients for any reason, its they choice, also the kickstarter permit the full refund of backers.

     

    but then derek smart is annoying (to say the least), and this game is stalling too long for my taste already, so if they kill each other i'm ok with it, just gonna take my pocorn and watch the show

     

    BTW, the answer for the refund :)

    http://www.pcinvasion.com/cig-explain-derek-smarts-star-citizen-refund-smart-disputes-claims

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • Moguy3Moguy3 Member UncommonPosts: 70

    From Derek in 2005:

     

    DEREK SMART AT GWJ IN 2005:

    "Public opinion is meaningless to me because opinions are things you can't change and wasting your time trying to convince people otherwise is just that. A waste of time. If I wanted to waste my time, I know a lot of more meaningful ways to do it.

    "Me? I'm just Derek Smart. I hide from no-one. I answer to no-one. I know what my goal in life is and I live it every day. Meanwhile, the f*ckers who figured they could put me under siege, ended up just creating a monster who has simply gotten too frigging big to shove back in the bottle.

    "Then you have those tits who love nothing better than to flame me at a forum where I can't post; and posting all manner of c*ck sh*t. These are the same ladies who give flaming a bad name or who would just duck around the corner if they ran into me in public. Its one thing when you're dealing with a faceless entity - like all the corwardly wankers online who hide behind their fancy aliases, anonymity and obscurity."

    THE AUTHOR'S RESPONSE:

    "Wow. What a dick."

     

    And original link: http://www.polygon.com/2012/11/14/3553620/the-redemption-of-derek-smart

     

    I dont think anyone is " Sweating " this guy. He makes himself a bigger deal than what he really is.

  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,535
    Originally posted by Katilla
    Originally posted by DeniZg

    Not sure if that is even legal.

    But, CIG has clearly shown that Derek Smart was right or at least on that he knew what he was talking about.

    If they were better and smarter than him, they would have publicly invited him to see the how the game is developing (if there is any development at all).

    Just want to point out that this guy isn't what people think he is.

    "Sometimes when I get online, and it's quiet, and I see something that attracts my attention, I'll post just to piss these guys off. That's why I do it. Because I'm in a good mood that day, I go in there and I start trouble."

    http://www.3000ad.com/press/ds_interview_cgw0401.jpg

     

    Yup.  People take this guy seriously?

     

    Apparently, seems a lot of people here including MMORPG staff do not know who Derek Smart really is. The one with the true hidden agenda is indeed Derek Smart, glad CIG is trying to close business ties with him as he is a vile person. I enjoy how he outs Robert's as having a big ego when Smart's ego is just absolutely absurd.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Originally posted by Rollgunner

     


    Originally posted by Torval I don't think it's dangerous or a precedent at all. Business I have worked for have, without prior warning to the customer, stopped business with them and refunded their entire payment. Some customers are bad for your business. It's better that they go elsewhere. Derek Smart got what he had coming. As an industry insider (I know that's a stretch) and a public figure his criticism of the company, the message, and the way it was delivered  is such that this shouldn't be unexpected. I applaud CIG for both refunding and for sending that message.
    But if the customer was released from their business agreement (presumably) because they thought said business was operating in a corrupt fashion, then we're back to the Appearance of Impropriety again.

     

    Appearance of Impropriety

    Whether they intended to or not, in the common man's mind, they have lent some air of credibility to Smart's claims by unexpectedly dropping him as a customer.

    only a stupid person would believe that.  Facts are facts. Assumptions are not facts.  People need a little common sense.

     

    And yes, some customers are bad business.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Stizzled
    Originally posted by Torval

    I applaud CIG for both refunding and for sending that message.

    As an outside observer whose simply waiting to pick the game up when it's finished, this doesn't look good for CIG. By unwillingly refunding his pledge and terminating his status as a contributor they've eliminated any right he had to complain, and taken his ability to speak on behalf of dissatisfied and worried backers. It's a move that's only purpose is to try to invalidate his past and future claims, in other words, they're just silencing his criticism.

     

    Whether or not there is any truth to Derek's claims doesn't matter to me, this is a negative for CIG in my book.

    It's not to me due to simple little fact, everyone knows the guy loves any chance to draw attention to himself, he achieved that, and got his money back, win win for him... ANy company is better off without his ability to claim he's not getting what he paid for.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AriesTigerAriesTiger Member UncommonPosts: 444
    Originally posted by Torval

    I don't think it's dangerous or a precedent at all. Business I have worked for have, without prior warning to the customer, stopped business with them and refunded their entire payment. Some customers are bad for your business. It's better that they go elsewhere.

    Derek Smart got what he had coming. As an industry insider (I know that's a stretch) and a public figure his criticism of the company, the message, and the way it was delivered  is such that this shouldn't be unexpected.

    I applaud CIG for both refunding and for sending that message.

     

    I agree (in the idea/light of refusing business or work.) I know of a faculty member who now serves a great Neopalitan :) who ranted about pro gay activities and how anyone not pro gay is a bigot and ended up getting fired over his Facebook status for classifying them as "bigots." It was a University and I guess they have an easier time then other educational facilities at firing staff. I don't want to pinpoint the University or his name, but we've become good friends as he's now my usual bartender lol (but like this company's withdrawl of this man's donation, I agree with the Instructor's firing.)

  • KatillaKatilla Member UncommonPosts: 829
    After reading up on him for a bit, it starts to seem that he thinks that the only good games, are those that he's had a hand in creating, which are incredibad to say the least.
  • RollgunnerRollgunner Member UncommonPosts: 61
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by Rollgunner

    Appearance of Impropriety

    Whether they intended to or not, in the common man's mind, they have lent some air of credibility to Smart's claims by unexpectedly dropping him as a customer.

    No we're not. Did you dig that crap up to suit your agenda?

    If a customer is verbally critical to that degree of any business then that business is going to sever relationship with them. Unhappy customers sling all sorts of accusations, some may be true or not. The point is that if a customer is that unhappy then it's best to end the relationship.

    The fact that CIG refunded the money without trying to fight him or screw him out of it shows integrity not impropriety. It only lends credibility to the claim if you're looking to prove that. Most customers don't care about those things. They only care that they are getting what they want. If customers really cared about business integrity people wouldn't pay for cable, mobile service, shop at corporate department stores, buy manufactured products, or participate in the economy in any way.

    Alas, I was compelled to take a Media Law class was back in the day, so no, I didn't dig any 'crap' up.

    (In point of fact, to paraphrase Francis Dumar : "I took that class *twice*... I'm no dummy!")

    Also, I don't think I have any agenda. I'm a SC backer too, and I'd like nothing more than to get a great game.

    The fact of the matter is that because it *might be* fishy, that the average person will believe that it *is* fishy.

    For some reason, in an absence of good information, people are inclined to lean towards conspiracies, and the Evil Empire silencing their most vocal critic is a classic. Why did they do that? Was he right all along? (panic ensues)

    That's just how it works, and that's why businesses try to avoid it.

    It may have been a good business decision, but it was a terrible PR decision (which makes it a pretty bad business decision in a situation where perception is everything).

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    IMO all 7 of his points are valid ones.I find it funny they put that much effort into finding his account and removing it,imagine if they were that fast moving on the game.

    I especially like the part about off shore accounts,you bet your ass he has money stored away.You can also bet he pays his brother and wife a substantial sum like a lot more than they are worth.A lot of accusations and problems are not a problem except when you are talking about OTHER people's money.

    The whole design and setup of Kickstarter is just too lazy and slack of effort to make sure the investors are not ripped off.Instead they like to post a TOS telling you about what you don't get or have no control over.

    I like the BS Kickstarter feeds people....

    Our goal is to provide a safe and trusted platform where people are honest and open with one another as they collaborate to bring creative projects to life.

    Then in the next three paragraphs KS goes on to tell you that there is basically nothing they can do for you and it is your responsibility to homework and research.KS does NOT adhere to their claims instead tell you that you have no rights and too bad you sucker.Nice of them to  state they run a trusted platform of honesty and being open when it is clearly NOT the truth.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Originally posted by Rollgunner

    Totally within their rights under the terms of Kickstarter, but refunding a critic's pledge without being asked is a dangerous precedent.

    CIG Refunds Derek Smart's Pledge

    I think this needs a little bit of clarification.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436635/page/7

    Originally posted by dsmart

    Looks like they've started processing refunds for those who ask

    https://twitter.com/SkyHuntersLLC/status/621007545050791936

     

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • RollgunnerRollgunner Member UncommonPosts: 61


    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Rollgunner Appearance of Impropriety
    only a stupid person would believe that.  Facts are facts. Assumptions are not facts.  People need a little common sense.
    It *is* a legal term, and it *is* a real phenomenon. Any sort of internet search will reveal hundreds of court cases where it is cited.

    I agree that it *shouldn't* be true, but the sad truth is that the average person is not rational most of the time.

    "If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence."
    -Bertrand Russell

    In the absence of good information, perception is reality. That's why so many institutions take great pains to avoid the phenomenon.

  • UrobulusUrobulus Member UncommonPosts: 29

    I asked for a refund a week ago, and got a confirmation earlier today from them (after 2 emails only) that they would gladly refund the 200$+ I gave them. I wasn't rude or anything: just plain explained that I didn't believe in the project anymore and felt like the idea I originally pledged my money for wasn't the same anymore.

     

    5-10 days and the money will be back on my card: the guy who took care of my case ast CIG (Patrick) was very nice and respectful of my opinion/view on the project and (unfortunate) lack of faith in it anymore.

     

    Overall very please with them at least finally accepting to give refunds to people who don't believe in their project anymore, which wasn't the case months ago (no refund at all from what I remember from countless people who tried before....).

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,305
    Originally posted by Rollgunner

     


    Originally posted by Torval I don't think it's dangerous or a precedent at all. Business I have worked for have, without prior warning to the customer, stopped business with them and refunded their entire payment. Some customers are bad for your business. It's better that they go elsewhere. Derek Smart got what he had coming. As an industry insider (I know that's a stretch) and a public figure his criticism of the company, the message, and the way it was delivered  is such that this shouldn't be unexpected. I applaud CIG for both refunding and for sending that message.
    But if the customer was released from their business agreement (presumably) because they thought said business was operating in a corrupt fashion, then we're back to the Appearance of Impropriety again.

     

    Appearance of Impropriety

    Whether they intended to or not, in the common man's mind, they have lent some air of credibility to Smart's claims by unexpectedly dropping him as a customer.

    naw, I think Torval has the right of it.

    Companies do this all the time. They just don't want bad customers as bad customers cost money.

    Now should they have? Maybe not as it causes people (such as yourself) to start wondering. What they probably should have done was left it and proven him wrong.

    Then again, who knows what other issues he has caused and they just decided enough is enough.

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