Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

[Column] World of Warcraft: Expansion Post Mortem - Warlords Turns to Borelords

135

Comments

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Originally posted by cerulean2012
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Garrisons were a massive flop :-(

    I really enjoyed them. I counter your flop and call a draw! :)

    Well, some people do but there are far more Wow players that tired of them in weeks so it is still a flop. A success is when they add something the majority of the players like, like the new character models.

    As far as I am concerned that is your personal opinion.  I like the Garrisons and until you can provide actual numbers from Blizzard then I will say it is also a draw at worst.

    We only have one number so far - the 2.9M sub drop. Is it fair to say that garrisons are to blame? I don't think so. However:

    • As someone on the official forums said Timeless Isles could have had a bad reception in MoP. It didn't because it was just a small part of MoP and if you didn't like it you could basically ignore it.
    • Garrisons are a huge part of WoD. And doing garrison missions over and over and over again with all the grind and tedium that that entails is "mandatory". If this doesn't appeal its game over.

    In a few weeks time (Aug4th) we will have the Q2 number - good, bad or indifferent. It will include people who were hanging on  for 6.2, 6.3, 6.4 (whoops!) and maybe it got a boost from tokens. Maybe. As Suzie Ford says above though when the Q3 numbers roll around - well if the forums and blog posts are indicative it will not be good; there is so much that people are unhappy with - not just garrisons. But hey maybe garrisons - and by extension WoD - have been really popular outside NA and the EU; I doubt it though people are basically the same the world over.  

  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I also cannot understand why blizzard don't just develop wow 2, all they need to do is provide achsni for existing players to transfer their achieve history over to wow 2 and the player base and mmorpg fan base in general would love it, plus a massive spike I. Wow while people mop up as many achieves as possible. They are so short sighted.

     

    And what would be in "wow 2"?

    *There is a reason the graphics are cartoony.  so "upgrading" them would be counter productive to the potential player pool.

     

    *Why would they employ a new gameplay strategy when the current one is making them bucket loads of money? They have tried hard content: people didn't like it

     

    *Where do you go from here? we have seen Azzeroth Twice! and there's no room left in lore to explore.

     

    So what you would basicly get would be some generic mmo which has to compete with all the other generic mmos out there.

     

     

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    New engine, new world (e.g titan home world) 60 levels instead of 5, new classes new skill trees, new effects, 40 new zones instead of a few, new questing levelling experience for said 60 levels, new engine allows for itemised housing, new large scale pvp. The list is endless. What it is not is another 5 levels a couple raids and selfies.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Why would they do this, it's called investment and planning for the future.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,139
    I think the reviewer and it appears most everyone that posted in this thread needs to go outside and play Frisbee for a couple of months then come back inside and play computer games again.
  • AbdarAbdar Member UncommonPosts: 400
    Originally posted by Coolit
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Garrisons were a massive flop :-(

     

    Yes they were.

     

    All I wanted was a nice house where I could move things around and place trophies, maybe even have some extra storage. Instead I got a Facebook game which made it feel like you were grinding every time you logged in.

     
     

    Garrisons are the worst version of player housing pretty much ever.

    I might even still be playing if they didn't exist in the first place. The idea of logging in and seeing that place, which looked like all my friends places, where all there was to do were those horrible missions, killed the whole game for me.

  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 2,444

    I wish I wouldn't have bought WoD.  It was okay but WOW is sooooooooo yesterday.   I wish I could buy a new MMO today worth buying!

     

    Make PvE GREAT Again!
  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Garrisons were a massive flop :-(

    Fully agree. Incredibly fun at first glance, enjoyed a lot ... but have nearly destroyed game virtually eliminating any need to go to cities or in wilds to mine, gather, ...

     

    For the rest, have never ever been bored in Wow .. up to WOD. I could play half year strait from 2 to 16 hours per day, depending on time, before WOD was released had 22 alts all manually leveled for both horde and alliance. With Wod - which was I admit very fun for 1 month - I left after barely 1 month. I just can not believe. WOD simply feels like BC2, nothing more nothing less. Fun to some degree and for few maxed up alts i made in this month ... but then boring. And also leveling is incredibly fast. It took me usually half year to have 10 alts by PVE, now JUST 1 MONTH FOR 5?!? Something is definitively wrong. Maybe of for those that love only end game and do not care for jurney ... but I'm (AS MANY) altholic and enjoy mainly PVE and questing ... only at some later time I have been into endgame. 

    Now i have resubbed after half year but ... meh.... i'm playing but without that trademark joy I always had retuning. Well fortunately my new No.1 SWTOR is still fun as hell and have been playing it since I left Wod, now also Gw2 ... and then Swtor expansion coming which is honestly only thing I care now. And I'sure will be there for minimum of half year.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    for everyone asking for WOW 2, most 2's have been horrible in comparison to their predeccessors

    AC2, EQ2, GW2, all not even close to the originals

    I don't agree with you about Gw2 (played the first for 5 years but whatever). Anyways can sequels be better.

    TES 2: Daggerfall was far better. Many people prefer Diablo 2 to 1 (ok, not me).  The Godfather 2 was a far better movie then the first.

    Sure, I imagine that Wow 2 would not be the same experience as someone got playing it in 2004, Wow however is pretty horrible now in comparision to then as well (which is the point of the whole thread) so compared to now I think a sequel would improve things. MMOs needs expansions (payed or otherwise) to grow and continue to florish but after a number the game always go downhill. Too many empty zones, old code that messes things up, gear that have become obsolete and far more levels then the game really was made for.

    Same thing happened to both Everquest games, the first expansions improved them but it started to go downhill after a bunch. Same thing happens to all MMOs.

    A sequel starts out fresh. Running the same game for 20 years with upgrades and expansions will give you a shadow of it's former self.

    AC2 was another matter, it was made way to early, something Origin almost made as well before they cancelled UO2. A MMO should have 8 or so years before a sequel comes out. If AC2 would have released today with a bit more work on it things might have been rather different.

    A Wow 2 will not live up to what many of the ultra fans would hope for but it would still be a new start and a chance for Blizzard to once again get over 10 million subs. I don't see that happening to Wow again unless something very drastically happens. 

  • imunrealimunreal Member UncommonPosts: 21
    The biggest problems was the raids. They were horribly boring. Being a wow raider since TBC, I can say that WoD is the worst raiding expansion, with MoP being a close second.
  • LothkyLothky Member UncommonPosts: 10

    In my opinion, as of today, WoW has 2 main problems:

    1. The most important one is very simple: It's no longer an MMO. Like 90% of the content in WoW nowadays is soloable. And when such a big percentage of the game is soloable in an MMO, it quits being MMO. The other 10% is doable in small or random groups.

    Vanilla WoW had this very clear: WoW was an MMORPG and, even though there were also things that could be soloed, the major part of the game was designed to be done, at least, in small groups:

    • Elite quests.
    • Dungeons (5-10 man)
    • Raids (10-man dungeons, 20-man and 40-man)
    • Materials farming
    • Reputation grinding (Cenarion Circle for example)
    • Of course, the WAR EFFORT event from patch 1.9.
    Almost everything in Vanilla was hard to do solo, and that's why most casuals complained day after day.
     
    During the different expansions, WoW has become, little by little, an Online Action RPG like Diablo, a game where you can solo the content but you have the option to invite your friends and play together. As of today, the only things that you can't do solo are:
    • Raids (depending on dificulty, 10 to 30 players)
    • RBG (10 players)
    • Arenas
    And as PvP in WoW sucks really hard, you're practically left with only Raids.
     
    WoW is no longer an MMO. It's something different. But after so many years playing this game, it's very difficult for some people to leave it. Me, for example. I've invested a lot of time in my account. I have more than 600 days of /played in my main character after almost 10 years of playing, and even though I don't have an active subscription all year long, sometimes I get impatient to receive some 7 free days to play a little.
     
    2. Related to point 1, the second problem of the game is that the game is now too easy and its content is completed too fast.
    Reputations are grinded in a couple of days, gear is obtained in no time, quest chains are completed really fast... The main content lasts no time.
    And since players devour this content so fast but ask for "I don't want to be forced to spend 5 hours/day to be someone in hte game", they developed the achievements, pet/mount collection and other "optional content" that requires hours and hours of investment but has no impact on your character's role.
    And of course, evereyone gets eventually tired of camping a rare mob for its spawn.
     
    But well, actual WoW is what casual players have asked for along the years. Now they realise the game is boring when you can solo it in a few days.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Indsofin

    ....

     
    But well, actual WoW is what casual players have asked for along the years. Now they realise the game is boring when you can solo it in a few days.

    Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.

    Sometimes you think you want something but it really is a bad idea.

    Part of the problem is that people who are happy tend to be silent about it so the devs only hear the whiners who constantly asks for easier and faster content together with better loot.

    And adding more dailies together with garrisons to get the content last longer is like putting a band aid on a amputated leg.

  • JeminaiJeminai Member UncommonPosts: 150
    poor old wow :(
  • compwitchcompwitch Member UncommonPosts: 19

    The problem with garrisons, shipyards etc. is, as you said, the boredom/grind factor when running more than one toon. Now if Blizzard had made garrisons account specific rather than toon specific, we might have had something worth investing in. A garrison where all my toons contributed to the whole, with enough space for all the crafting stations, and where not all items were soulbound (i.e. crafting related mats, loot, follower upgrades ) would have been something where time invested would have been worthwhile. And although Draenor has gone a little way towards lifting the level-bound crafting restrictions, this is still a PITA for those of us who are craft-oriented at lower levels. And crafting in Draenor requires co-operation between toons/players to get the mats you need (sorcerous mats generated are often not the ones you need to craft with, and need swapping, i.e. sorcerous earth from blacksmiths, scribes etc. are needed by tailors for hexweave bags), so why not make the whole thing a toon co-operative.

    As it is, by the time I've done the garrison dailies for all my toons, there's little time left for anything else, and it's become a huge grind.

    Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed a lot of the new Draenor content, but with a little more thought it could have been a more satisfying experience instead of yet another joyless grind.

  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993

    A lot of people saying they should just bring out WoW 2, the problem here isn't the game, it's Blizz. They're not trying anymore, the effort just seems very minimal or Activision are just helping too much lol.

     

    The complaints aren't about how old the game is, combat, limitations or anything along those lines, it's about Blizzard hyping the shit out of their game,

    (Hyper meter at MAXIMUM CAPACITY)

    charging people more, then releasing half baked content ( excluding leveling and raids) and piss poor patches. 6.1 which the majority of the community don't even consider a patch and 6.2 being just a rehash of the same content moved to another location, but I think the biggest smack in the face is then turning round to say "Well expansions pretty much done, hope you enjoyed our to major content patches. especially 6.1".

     

    So them releasing Wow 2 won't change a thing lol. If they want change, the first thing they need to do is kick Activision out, because i'm getting major deja vu, this is just how CoDAW and Destiny launched, both games Activision actively "helping".

     

    Just putting it out there :)

  • GormogonGormogon Member UncommonPosts: 212

    Before history rewrites itself, let's make sure we remember that WoD was supposed to be that expansion that excited players and brought everyone back.  Late last year fans were gushing about how this expansion had taken WoW back to its roots and made it better than ever.  The ability to revisit pre-WarCraft Draenor was supposed to be a return to the heart of the WarCraft story after what many saw as the panda debacle.  Flying, which had supposedly ruined the previous expacs, was removed so that players once again were forced to enjoy the world the way it was meant to be.

     

    It brought back three million players, and failed to hold their attention for even four months.  Even if tokens mask some of the additional decline, it seems inevitable that WoW will continue to shed subs as it has since the end of WotLK/beginning of Cata.   If the "best expac yet" as WoD was touted by many to be less than eight months ago could not halt the decline, nothing will.  Blizzard has no magic expac up its sleeve to reverse things on any kind of long-term basis.

     

    The subs stalled out in the final months of WotLK, and the decline began in the first months of Cata.  Aside from bumps at the start of MoP and WoD, you can draw a downward sloping line through the sub numbers for the next 4+ years.  I came back for the end of MoP and beginning of WoD, but was one of those people who initially left at the very top.  Something changed in late WotLK and into Cata that the game was never really able to recover from.

     
     
  • AvarixAvarix Member RarePosts: 665
    Originally posted by Herase

    A lot of people saying they should just bring out WoW 2, the problem here isn't the game, it's Blizz. They're not trying anymore, the effort just seems very minimal or Activision are just helping too much lol.

     

    The complaints aren't about how old the game is, combat, limitations or anything along those lines, it's about Blizzard hyping the shit out of their game,

    (Hyper meter at MAXIMUM CAPACITY)

    charging people more, then releasing half baked content ( excluding leveling and raids) and piss poor patches. 6.1 which the majority of the community don't even consider a patch and 6.2 being just a rehash of the same content moved to another location, but I think the biggest smack in the face is then turning round to say "Well expansions pretty much done, hope you enjoyed our to major content patches. especially 6.1".

     

    So them releasing Wow 2 won't change a thing lol. If they want change, the first thing they need to do is kick Activision out, because i'm getting major deja vu, this is just how CoDAW and Destiny launched, both games Activision actively "helping".

     

    Just putting it out there :)

    For the most part, I agree.

     

    World of Warcraft seems to have taken a back seat. They are doing a great job at marketing the brand (Warcraft) itself with games like Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm but they forgot about their biggest player. None of these things would be possible without the insane amount of success that World of Warcraft  brought them. Yet they seem to be dropping it on the side of the road to focus on other games, and even a movie. I have no idea what the thought process is there. 'Let's use all this money to try getting new fans! The old ones will be fine on their own!' ? I know Blizzard has some pretty hardcore fans but even they can only take so much. I think we're seeing a breaking point.

     

    My point is why should we care about your game when you have shown over time you lack interest in it as well? Blizzard, it's time to get your hands out of so many pots and focus on what brought you the success you have today. World of Warcraft is funding so many of their projects, and sadly World of Warcraft doesn't seem to be one of them.

  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I also cannot understand why blizzard don't just develop wow 2, all they need to do is provide achsni for existing players to transfer their achieve history over to wow 2 and the player base and mmorpg fan base in general would love it, plus a massive spike I. Wow while people mop up as many achieves as possible. They are so short sighted.

    It's real easy, WoW is 7M sub strong with HotS, Hearthstone, and soon Overwatch to keep $$$ flowing.  Why waste development resource and money when they have all that going?  From WoW subs alone they make 105M monthly.  As long as people are willing to sub to WoW it will not go anywhere.  Then when subs decline to a point where they can't sustain they can flip the f2p switch and make more than they do now on subscriptions.

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Why would they do this, it's called investment and planning for the future.

    Why would they do that?

    Every expansion the customers come back for multiple months. ($$$$)

    They put items into their cashshop. ($$$$$)

    Even at 300k customers with a cashshop they can keep the game profitable. ($$$$)

    Look at SWG, before it died and they ousted the community by 99%. Even the 1% that stayed with the game made the game profitable by buying lottery playing card decks. How many were playing SWG at the end? 50k? Not much more then that and it was only shut down because of SWTOR being released and LucasArts did not want 2x Star Wars IP MMO's out there.

    Blizzard can keep this game running for another 10y with 1% of the current community and still drain money from it.

    And in the end: that is all that matters, not your playing experience, not the reputation. Just cold cash.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • trisoxtrisox Member UncommonPosts: 51

    I didn't play wow for a long time - checked it out a few times but it really is nothing new at this point.

    Iam ready for a Starcraft MMO though. Thank you blizzard, will see you there!

    (Not that i think this would happen anytime soon, if at all)

  • SaluteSalute Member UncommonPosts: 795
    WoW is getting more retarded with every single expansion and patch. Just shut it down and bring a WoW 2.0 or another mmo from Blizz. It has nothing to do with population decline or if its dying or not etc. Its only about how boring, old and almost retarded seems anymore.

    All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
    Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2

  • tordurbartordurbar Member UncommonPosts: 421

    Not surprised by the poor review and the associated comments. This site is one of the most anti-WOW gaming sites on the web.

    I like WOW and am still subbed.

  • DuskDwellerDuskDweller Member UncommonPosts: 1

    I think the main issue with WoW, is WoW itself.

    Its foundations are so freaking old and rotten, they'll do better with shutting it down and starting something new and fresh, and please, for the love of god, something that doesn't let you level from 1 to max in less than a week.

  • sipusipu Member UncommonPosts: 182
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Why would they do this, it's called investment and planning for the future.

    Why would they do that?

    Every expansion the customers come back for multiple months. ($$$$)

    They put items into their cashshop. ($$$$$)

    Even at 300k customers with a cashshop they can keep the game profitable. ($$$$)

    Look at SWG, before it died and they ousted the community by 99%. Even the 1% that stayed with the game made the game profitable by buying lottery playing card decks. How many were playing SWG at the end? 50k? Not much more then that and it was only shut down because of SWTOR being released and LucasArts did not want 2x Star Wars IP MMO's out there.

    Blizzard can keep this game running for another 10y with 1% of the current community and still drain money from it.

    And in the end: that is all that matters, not your playing experience, not the reputation. Just cold cash.

    1%? This mean they would need to fire 90% of staff and cancel all those projects they are investing in now. R U INSANE?

     
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    Originally posted by tordurbar

    Not surprised by the poor review and the associated comments. This site is one of the most anti-WOW gaming sites on the web.

    I like WOW and am still subbed.

    As an active subscriber, I take umbrage with that comment. I do NOT hate WoW. I am disappointed in Warlords for not being up to Blizzard's promises and for not utilizing its resources (lore, developers, it's "biggest team ever, etc.) to create an experience worthy of the game's heritage -- think Lich King here.

    No fan, player or subscriber should have to keep their comments to themselves if they are less than pleased with the product they have invested in. It's OK to be constructively critical, but not OK to remain silent and let this sort of development continue yielding another subpar expac.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


Sign In or Register to comment.