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PvP without direct confrontation

DhaenonDhaenon Member UncommonPosts: 149

Hey all!

 

I was bouncing around the idea of PvP without directly confronting one another and what I came up with is a sort of Outpost that can be conquered through a Reputation system and/or by using NPC monsters to drive the enemy faction out. You never actually fire a shot on the enemy, but you instigate or engineer their demise. 

Do you think such a thing would be well received? 

Comments

  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member UncommonPosts: 819
    so PvE? 

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • DhaenonDhaenon Member UncommonPosts: 149

    Basically PvE but with PvP elements. 

    A few ideas were, say you and your team zone into a dungeon, an enemy team zones in as well and now you must race to the objective. Or say a PvP element much like the game EVOLVE, where you take control of a monster and now a team of the other faction must hunt you down. Not really character to character PvP, but with elements of it. 

  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 1,768

    Sounds like a board game.  Chess or checkers. I don't think it would be considered PvP.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,322

    Sounds like nuclear war actually

  • ZephyrjinxZephyrjinx Member UncommonPosts: 24

    Easy mode?

    image

  • MavolenceMavolence Member UncommonPosts: 635
    Well look at market pvp in EVE as one example
  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035
    Originally posted by Dhaenon
    Hey all!   I was bouncing around the idea of PvP without directly confronting one another and what I came up with is a sort of Outpost that can be conquered through a Reputation system and/or by using NPC monsters to drive the enemy faction out. You never actually fire a shot on the enemy, but you instigate or engineer their demise.  Do you think such a thing would be well received? 

     

    One I suggest you look into:  Heroes Charge, it's free on Android and IOS.

     

    Technically its an RPG-MOBA hybrid and revolves heavily around Arena combat.  BUT, there's never a direct interaction with the other players.  I build a team of heroes which are my defenders.  Someone comes along and attacks my defenders, but it's not me controlling them.  From the engine's point of view, they're only NPCs.  I don't even have to be online.

     

    Same thing in reverse.  I battle my way up a PVP progression ladder fighting against player owned defenders, but never really another player.

     

    The abstraction is amazing.  It's the only PVP game I've ever played and didn't have all sorts of negative reactions to.

     

    Maybe it'll be helpful.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,364
    The idea just sounds like a variation of Capture the Flag.I never liked grouped pvp,i have always felt 1 on 1 is the true pvp form of gaming.In team based games you have too many variables that you cannot control,i prefer to be in total control of my pvp options.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,263

    There was a little game in the 80s called Omega made by Origin where you built a tank and then programmed its behavior using a simple decision tree AI interface to play in a city map. That created a file and you could put your tank up against someone else's.

     

    Origin and Computer Gaming World (the print magazine that later on became the Web Site of the same name which later still changed its name to Gamespot) ran several tournaments.

     

    It was fun in that old 1980's computer gaming geek culture kind of way when a lot f us gamers also programmed a bit or a lot.

     

    Last game to do that even a little bit (as far as I know) was Baldur's Gate with the companion programming interface. I kind of miss that :)

     

     

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Dhaenon
    Hey all! I was bouncing around the idea of PvP without directly confronting one another and what I came up with is a sort of Outpost that can be conquered through a Reputation system and/or by using NPC monsters to drive the enemy faction out. You never actually fire a shot on the enemy, but you instigate or engineer their demise.  Do you think such a thing would be well received? 

    You might just like Die2Nite

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Dhaenon
    Hey all! I was bouncing around the idea of PvP without directly confronting one another and what I came up with is a sort of Outpost that can be conquered through a Reputation system and/or by using NPC monsters to drive the enemy faction out. You never actually fire a shot on the enemy, but you instigate or engineer their demise.  Do you think such a thing would be well received? 

    Already exists in Guildwars: Factions. There you contribute points to your guild/alliance and if you get enough you gain your own outpost and town with a specific area only for members in it.

  • HelleriHelleri Member UncommonPosts: 930
    This is called an RTS?

    image

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,664

    This system was implemented in WoW, I think in WotLK.  Contested zones had PvP towers that could be captured by occupation, non-confrontation.  The idea was that the occupation would be televised across the zone and draw PvPers to the tower.  In my experience it didn't.

     

    SWG had a revolving faction ownership of planets and NPC capital cities.  This was done by Faction (Flagged) PvE, which ever faction does the most faction PvE, becomes the ruling faction.  Because it is flagged, you can stumble into PvP.  That was the design goal.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • GruntyGrunty Member RarePosts: 8,393
    In other words a game based on a passive-aggressive mindset.
    She was grimacing. "That does sound like what America's has been trying to do for the last century or two--get rich faster than the parasites could steal it."   The Free Lunch by Spider Robinson
  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,669
    Originally posted by Iselin
    There was a little game in the 80s called Omega made by Origin where you built a tank and then programmed its behavior using a simple decision tree AI interface to play in a city map. That created a file and you could put your tank up against someone else's.   Origin and Computer Gaming World (the print magazine that later on became the Web Site of the same name which later still changed its name to Gamespot) ran several tournaments.   It was fun in that old 1980's computer gaming geek culture kind of way when a lot f us gamers also programmed a bit or a lot.   Last game to do that even a little bit (as far as I know) was Baldur's Gate with the companion programming interface. I kind of miss that :)

    There's a more modern variation of that idea called Robocode.  You write the tank AI in either Java or .NET.

    It's a lot of fun to mess with.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Grunty
    In other words a game based on a passive-aggressive mindset.

    Kinda like being here, but in 3D. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,299
    Originally posted by Dhaenon
    Hey all!   I was bouncing around the idea of PvP without directly confronting one another and what I came up with is a sort of Outpost that can be conquered through a Reputation system and/or by using NPC monsters to drive the enemy faction out. You never actually fire a shot on the enemy, but you instigate or engineer their demise.  Do you think such a thing would be well received? 

    I got so board half way through this post that I stopped just to tell you about how board this post made me...

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Reminds me a bit of cultural border expansion from civ, passive aggressive engine, with culture bombs etc. it's a really interesting idea but it wouldn't stand on its own because many enjoy pvp therefore it would not make sense without pvp options - interesting if it was though.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • GruntyGrunty Member RarePosts: 8,393
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Grunty
    In other words a game based on a passive-aggressive mindset.

    Kinda like being here, but in 3D. 

    I already lived it in 3D the first 18 years.

    She was grimacing. "That does sound like what America's has been trying to do for the last century or two--get rich faster than the parasites could steal it."   The Free Lunch by Spider Robinson
  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    Well competition is always PVP, but the less that players' decisions affect one another the less dynamic it'll be, and the less likely it'll be called PVP.

    For example a Dungeon Speedrun Leaderboard is technically PVP, but nobody would call it that and it'll only be as interesting as the PVE content it's based on, since you can't do anything to affect other players' times and they can't do anything to affect yours.

    A better implementation would be more like euro-style boardgames, where direct attacks are often prohibited, but your actions have strong impact on the strategic options available to your opponents (often in the form of exclusive decisions: if one player chooses a Harvest action, no other player can take that action this turn.)  Similar techniques could be used to create systems where players weren't in direct conflict with one another, but where their choices have strong impact on the other players' options, and eventually a winner is declared.

    The notion that a winner can be declared seems important, as it implies there's a formalized system for the competition.  Otherwise you end up realizing that players competing for ore spawns on a PVE server are already doing this (player locations are exclusive - we only exist in one place - so I can affect my competition by harvesting the nodes in front of their path or beating them to the high-density part of the zone and harvesting there first.)  And that even though that's theoretically competition, the fact that it's an open-ended activity without formalized rules declaring a winner makes it a lot less competitive.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • anemoanemo Member UncommonPosts: 1,408

    Any game with crafting and even an almost decent economy.

    Guild recruitment.

    the "firsts".

    Game mechanic "masters"/"explorers" for that reputation.

    Tera does have rep/raid grinding for guild housing PvE.

    ____________________

    Be interesting if you could disable some respawn points in some territories for some enemies.

    Be interesting if you could control taxes for some entities and at different rates.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Originally posted by Zephyrjinx
    Easy mode?

    Your sig = gold

     

    Exactly how those games would have been made if they were made today.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • DhaenonDhaenon Member UncommonPosts: 149

    An idea I had was dungeon competition. Your team vs another team, both are trying to reach the end objective first. Mostly it is PvE but maybe you could mess with the other team, shoot a pipeline that causes a fire wall they have to wait to cross or trigger a cave in that requires them to dodge falling rocks while fighting some mobs. 

    Thoughts?

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