I asked "Why are there even levels?" during my 3 weeks of play near launch. I asked this around level 30. Then came "so there are levels but no point". This contributed to my overall feeling of pointlessness from Spvp to RvR to pve land. For it GW2 was just a bad game in so many respects.
So after seeing many posts about the new down scaling I decided to go research it my self to see just how much different it was and found some things that made me wonder even more if it was intended or was supposed to be there in the first place. Check out the link below to see the video I did on it.
I hope you all have your own input for this and see you in game.
So, I finally watched your video. I see where you are coming from, but there's some good reasons why there is leveling in GW2. Additionally, I don't think your argument here is about downscaling, but rather your argument is about why is there leveling in GW2.
First, leveling is a familiar tool that's been used in gaming for decades now. Remember that ANet had to add in Hearts to lower level areas in order to get people to even participate in the events during early playtests. Just having the dynamic events going on around them wasn't enough to get them to do it, because "they didn't have a quest for it". Having a sense of progression is very meaningful to many people as well.
Second, levels are a good way to spread out the populations. If GW2 never had levels a good portion of the population might have just gone strait to Orr and just zerged their way through events for gold farming, gear farming (for salvaging) and the only people left in the rest of the world would be the explorers and crafters since there is a progression system to crafting based upon materials.
Third, levels are used to deliver trait points and skill points. Imagine if you had to go around and hit Hero Challenges all over the world on every single character you make? The leveling system in GW2 ensures that characters can be built via all of the activities available to us. Giving us all traits and skills at new character creation would be pointless since you're killing the initial progression system of leveling a toon. Hell, I have enough gold and resources in GW2 where if I made a new character in a non-leveling system, they would be 100% geared and built the second they were made. That would negate many of the reasons why we play these games, since you could essentially not play a character to level one. Granted, with enough Tomes of Knowledge you can do that now, but that does require some effort on your part.
I understand, I think, your premise. However, I really don't agree with it at all.
They would have been just fine IF you didn't have to get levels...
Originally posted by Dullahan Its just so unrealistic, but par for the course in modern MMOs. As far as I'm concerned, you are either of a certain strength and level, or you aren't. The idea of magically becoming weaker or stronger based on where in the world you are is a huge immersion breaker.
Realistic to what exactly? I must be living under a rock.
If you want immersion in GW2 there is a lot of it. play a Celestial Eng build.
I'm sorry, but if I really have to explain how its unrealistic that I become more or less powerful based on where I'm standing in the world, you are obviously only asking to white knight for the game.
Well, downscaling in GW2 is more about attempting to keep the feeling of a living and breathing world and immersion.
In many mmos there's major threats in certain areas, let's take Zalazane in the Echo Isles in WoW for example. For years the Darkspear Trolls were kicked out of their homeland due to Zalazane having control of the area. When they added the retaking of Echo Isles event in WoW you would see comments on the forums and in chat about how we're finally taking an area back as max level toons from a level 10 "boss". Sure the event Zalazane was a much higher level (more powerful), but the argument was still valid from an immersion stand point. Why the hell didn't one of our max level characters just walk in there and kill the level 10 guy holding the area for years?
The actual intent was that Zalazane was indeed extremely dangerous and it took the might of the Horde to reclaim the area (same goes for the retaking of parts of Gnomeregon for the Alliance side). Per the story he was holding the ancestral lands and there wasn't much the Darkspears could do about it on their own. Downscaling in WoW could have played into the story more and would've seemed a lot less ridiculous that a level 10 could be such a problem.
In GW2, my character isn't "weaker" in relative terms in comparison to how the world works. From a gameplay standpoint, yes my stats are reduced, but I still have all of the knowledge (traits, skills) and my gear. Any of my level 80 toons can wtfpwn low level mobs, but if I want to make a challenge for myself I can waltz into a pack of a dozen or so mobs and have to actually pay attention to what I am doing, as opposed to my level 100 toon being afk in Durotar with a raptor forever attacking me and doing nothing to me at all.
Downscaling is a much more "realistic" mechanic in my opinion.
Thats starting with a faulty premise, and ending up with a preposterous conclusion.
At level 10, there shouldn't be any major risk, its a time for character and plot development. The idea that there is some extreme threat to the realm that must be quelled by young recruits is a farce. Sounds more like another example of trying to make players feel like they're important before they done anything to deserve it.
In the world I live in, if I go to school and gain wisdom, I don't all of a sudden lose it when I go to the market. If I save up and buy a sports car, it doesn't turn into a pinto when I pull up to the mall. If I spend months getting ripped, I don't don a pot belly when I walk into a movie theater. That would be silly.
Originally posted by DMKano For me downscaling is the worst feature period. It's the reason why I dont play GW2. Being forced to scale down simply by entering a lower level area - ugh no thanks. Make it optional - forcing me to be weaker, yeah I'll pass.
I love it, and think it's one of the best features of the game. When I'm playing with my level 14 friend on my level 80, it doesn't feel like I'm a god, it feels like I'm on par with my buddy. Which makes it all the more fun and exciting to play together. Then again, I'm not a player that focuses 100% on end game or pvp. I enjoy the journey...
Different strokes.....
Ditto for me, it's a great way for friends to play along side one another at any time which in this era of musical MMOs is invaluable. I think the mechanic could be toggled but beings the rewards, even for low level content, are scaled up to the character's real level because the difficulty is relatively the same, other systems would have to change with the addition of the toggle.
Overall I think it's a great mechanic as-is to make a game world's content meaningful even if higher level. Personally I think steamrolling content is boring and very unrealistic. So I could fight a bear at level 14 but now that's easy and this small bird thing is pushing my skills at level 50? Another consideration specific to GW2 is that there are many areas that would be missed with a single character without down scaling.
I'm really happy they are making the down scaling even more in line with difficulty comparisons. In a time when devs constantly make content easier this is intriguing.
I honestly don't know what level character I have - it was max level during launch month which was the last time I logged in. My experience is what the scaling was like when ga!e launched - I have no clue what changes were done afterwards.
I remember hitting max level in 3 weeks and then PvPing at max level with my guild for another week and then I never played again.
The thing is, you're never actually weaker when downscaled. If anything you're actually a bit stronger, because you have access to more tools (skills / traits) than someone does who is actually at that lvl. Furthermore (though it seems to have gotten tweaked in the latest patch) it was only the highest end gear that skewed the power curve (again, making you stronger than normal, not weaker), because exotic / ascended gear gave you stats higher than what would be available for someone at that lvl.
That said, everything else is completely subjective. The game having lvls at all is essentially a smokescreen, because the game really doesn't need to have them. They are literally only there to give a false sense of progression (for the gamers that insist on needing lvls to 'feel stronger'). When you get downscaled in the game (and this was true at launch), you're not actually getting weaker at all. The numbers may not seem as flashy, but if you're 1 shotting 80s, you'll still be 1 shotting lvl 10s. But instead of doing 3k dmg on a 2700 hp mob, you'll be doing 300 dmg on a 270hp mob.
It is subjective and I understand the concept of being scaled down in proportion so if you can kill a level 80 mob in 10 seconds, you also kill a level 10 mob in 10 seconds. I get that.
This is where it doesn't work *for me* - as I progress my character I do increased damage so once I do finally get to max level and I am doing 3k damage - its that - hell yes feeling - finally doing 3k damage - yay. I don't want to see that number go down ever - period.
So seeing that 3k number needed down to 300 damage just because I hsppend to be walking through some level 10 mobs .... HUGE turnoff mentally.
I know its shallow of me, but I just can't stand being insta-nerfed in all aspects due to a game mechanic that downscales me - no, i've been at level 10 I am over that I am max level now - please let me be !ax level with max stats and max damage *always*. I've earned it, let me enjoy it.
Again that's my experience and why I dislike downscaling.
You're not nerfed though, you're dealing out the same amount of damage relative to the current level content you are experiencing. You're getting caught up on a cosmetic number basically. If there wasn't damage numbers at all, you would probably notice the health of the enemy actually going down more quickly than it would vs. a level 80 mob since you're still statistically more powerful than the mobs in the area due to your gear and traits.
I also wouldn't call it shallow, but you're basically caught up on a number that is statistically relative to the damage you would deal at any level with the same build and gear.
Of course, we all love seeing "big numbers" from time to time.
Originally posted by flizzer Downscaling is one of the major reasons I love GW2.
I am right there with ya on that!
GW2 down scaling is not perfect, but I do like it. So many times in other MMOs having a high level running through has killed my experience. Like in ESO and doing Dolmens only to have a high level come and one shot everything. I much rather have a down scaled player come assist me and make it fun.
Originally posted by Dullahan Its just so unrealistic, but par for the course in modern MMOs. As far as I'm concerned, you are either of a certain strength and level, or you aren't. The idea of magically becoming weaker or stronger based on where in the world you are is a huge immersion breaker.
Realistic to what exactly? I must be living under a rock.
If you want immersion in GW2 there is a lot of it. play a Celestial Eng build.
I'm sorry, but if I really have to explain how its unrealistic that I become more or less powerful based on where I'm standing in the world, you are obviously only asking to white knight for the game.
Well, downscaling in GW2 is more about attempting to keep the feeling of a living and breathing world and immersion.
In many mmos there's major threats in certain areas, let's take Zalazane in the Echo Isles in WoW for example. For years the Darkspear Trolls were kicked out of their homeland due to Zalazane having control of the area. When they added the retaking of Echo Isles event in WoW you would see comments on the forums and in chat about how we're finally taking an area back as max level toons from a level 10 "boss". Sure the event Zalazane was a much higher level (more powerful), but the argument was still valid from an immersion stand point. Why the hell didn't one of our max level characters just walk in there and kill the level 10 guy holding the area for years?
The actual intent was that Zalazane was indeed extremely dangerous and it took the might of the Horde to reclaim the area (same goes for the retaking of parts of Gnomeregon for the Alliance side). Per the story he was holding the ancestral lands and there wasn't much the Darkspears could do about it on their own. Downscaling in WoW could have played into the story more and would've seemed a lot less ridiculous that a level 10 could be such a problem.
In GW2, my character isn't "weaker" in relative terms in comparison to how the world works. From a gameplay standpoint, yes my stats are reduced, but I still have all of the knowledge (traits, skills) and my gear. Any of my level 80 toons can wtfpwn low level mobs, but if I want to make a challenge for myself I can waltz into a pack of a dozen or so mobs and have to actually pay attention to what I am doing, as opposed to my level 100 toon being afk in Durotar with a raptor forever attacking me and doing nothing to me at all.
Downscaling is a much more "realistic" mechanic in my opinion.
Thats starting with a faulty premise, and ending up with a preposterous conclusion.
At level 10, there shouldn't be any major risk, its a time for character and plot development. The idea that there is some extreme threat to the realm that must be quelled by young recruits is a farce. Sounds more like another example of trying to make players feel like they're important before they done anything to deserve it.
In the world I live in, if I go to school and gain wisdom, I don't all of a sudden lose it when I go to the market. If I save up and buy a sports car, it doesn't turn into a pinto when I pull up to the mall. If I spend months getting ripped, I don't don a pot belly when I walk into a movie theater. That would be silly.
You managed to miss the entire point of my reply.
The WoW example I provided, Zalazane holding the Echo Isles, existed in the Orc and Troll shared starting zone....for years. Through multiple expansion packs. If levels had any true meaning on story (and my example is an example as to why story, levels and perceived power don't always line up), then any one of our characters should have been able to go back and defeat Zalazane at level 15 or even 20. Let alone being a problem for the entire might of the Horde for literal years.
Secondly, you entire second paragraph has NOTHING to do with how downscaling works in GW2.
Your character doesn't lose knowledge. They have all of their skills, traits when downleveled.
The car in your example could be gear I guess. Your gear is still the exotic gear with all of your runes and sigils (remains a sports car).
Your character is still "ripped". You're dealing similar damage in relation to your skills/traits/gear as you would vs. a level 80 mob. Actually, you're dealing with those downscaled mobs more easily since the mobs themselves are designed to not be as difficult as a mob in a level 80 zone. In essence, you're more ripped vs. weaker mobs in general.
If damage numbers were shown in percentages instead of actual damage numbers, you should still see the same relative damage regardless of the level of your character. Your build and traits would be the wild card to decrease and increase your relative damage output. Which is also stated in the video of the OP.
Originally posted by mazut Its good if it brings challenge, now in gw2 its to easy. But its definitely more healthy for the game.
So much of the griefing constant in other games just isn't really possible in a scaling world. I'm sure that annoyed the sorts of people who enjoy such behaviors. And there's the "where did my Big Numbers go, shrinkage oh noes" factor, of course.
On the other hand, there's nowhere in the world you can simply stroll from point A to point B over land without constantly battling (which I found pretty tedious and unrealistic from a "living world" POV).
Like all social experiments, you discover there just ain't no perfect answer.
Personally I've never been crazy about the idea, I also do not like the level scaling introduced in Oblivion with the TES series. Yet at least in that case the Mobs changed as you got higher in level. WHile I can understand the argument that it makes the world usable to all levels, the problem is it removes the feeling of progression far too much. On top of that it's not fresh content, so it gets old. I feel no desire to go back and do it all again.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes it is very bad and for many reasons,the most important being immersion.I could use a lot of analogies to show why.
The ONLY reason for scaling is to suit YOUR needs,that alone is not a good reason,nothing in the world changes to suit you,the only plausible solution is that you make the changes.Lore,EVERY game should have LORE and the inhabitants should always make sense,they should not look and feel like computer code that just switches whenever a player wants it to.
Now imagine you have a Corvette,you want it to suit your needs,so you change the motor to a 4 cylinder,you want better seating space so you change it to be bigger,you want it ti handle like an off road vehicle so you change it's suspension,wheel size etc etc,you no longer have a Corvette.The same thing goes for any mob in a game,once you change it,there is no longer any identification with that mob,it is just computer code.
Also using this game,they were waving a flag on realism,about how the dynamic content changed the world,well why go for plausible realism then turn around and defy it with scaling,it is like your team's thought process was going in different directions.
SOE "EQ2" was imo the first to try it with it's one expansion "Splitpaw Saga" and never went back to it again,i think they learned that it is just a bad idea.I now see the same idea used in Square Enix FFXi and FFXIV,imo that is just being cheap because instead of creating variable content to suit the needs of variables levels,they just scale the same content to be repeatable,cheap,lazy and not cool.
This falls under the same Item Level idea we are seeing games do,it is scaling content to your weapon/gear,that is again a lame idea trying to cut corners on development.Bottom line is developers are always looking for EASIER ways for them to make content,i prefer to see the effort.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
At release a down scaled level 80 would either kill a low level mob 1-2 hits or stand there taking hits all day.
There was no problem - you would feel way more powerful then when you started and it was quite easy for down scaled characters solo champions that would trash a real low level character.
I've posted pictures showing this before and if you want I can go dig them.
The problem is last patch change.
Now, until you are level 60, a real low level character with proper gear will do more damage than a down scaled max level character.
That happens because low level gear has either 1 or 2 attributes while max level has 3 attributes.
So lets say at level 2 a piece of armor gives +10 to a single attribute. The scaling down formula is now trying to split 14 points between 3 attributes. That means the primary attribute of the low level will be higher than the down scaled character. (note the numbers are made up and only presented to explain the overall situation)
In addition previously some attribute points were attached to traits while now you get them as you level.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The primary flaw of not having downscaling is that you're effectively closing the gate behind you every time you move to a higher level/zone. Lower level content is no longer viable. The challenge is gone. The loot is worthless. You break the balance intent of the map for characters of the appropriate levels. You may like facerolling mobs sixty levels your junior, but you look like an idiot doing it, especially to people trying do to their own things. Large events would be ruined by a handful of high levels melting the boss in moments.
Down-leveling keeps all content viable. In addition, it allows for the low level areas to drop level appropriate loot for your character without breaking the economy. You can get level 80 drops in a level 20 zone because you have to take the time to get that loot as opposed to one-shotting the map and getting mass quantities of garbage.
So after seeing many posts about the new down scaling I decided to go research it my self to see just how much different it was and found some things that made me wonder even more if it was intended or was supposed to be there in the first place. Check out the link below to see the video I did on it.
I hope you all have your own input for this and see you in game.
There are pros and cons.
I have enjoyed from time to time to return to some low area as high level player where in past I have been tormented by some elite mob that now I could kill with single shot. Like Hogger. :-)
On pros, one can enjoy low level areas that were skipped while leveling. But big minus here is all loot from quest givers is suited to original level, meaning completely useless to higher level chars.
So after seeing many posts about the new down scaling I decided to go research it my self to see just how much different it was and found some things that made me wonder even more if it was intended or was supposed to be there in the first place. Check out the link below to see the video I did on it.
I hope you all have your own input for this and see you in game.
There are pros and cons.
I have enjoyed from time to time to return to some low area as high level player where in past I have been tormented by some elite mob that now I could kill with single shot. Like Hogger. :-)
On pros, one can enjoy low level areas that were skipped while leveling. But big minus here is all loot from quest givers is suited to original level, meaning completely useless to higher level chars.
At least when it comes to GW2, not entirely useless, as some of the heart vendors you unlock can have unique armor and weapon skins that you can unlock and use at any level.
It doesn't encourage friends to play with someone with a high level character that CAN'T just WTF PWN everything low level.
Then you are not playing the game.
You are just abusing a highlevel to zerg you through the content, which will end in you reaching max level in 1 day and then uninstall the game as it is "too boring, not enough content, no challenge"
It would also end in botting players 1-shotting everything to farm quest content to sell on the markets.
No thanks.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Why have levels if you are down-scaled to match the zone level? I'm with Kano as far as leveling is concerned. If I take the time to reach whatever the max level is then I should feel an appreciable difference in power when moving around the world. However, if you enjoy the down-scaling in GW2, power to you. Why have down-scaling when it makes levels irrelevant? Why not just have scaling? Whatever zone you enter, you are an appropriate level. However, skill acquisition to zone and event completion. That way you can explore the world to you hearts content but if you want to have access to all of your skills, you must complete lower end content. Gives people who want the whole world to be viable that option but those who want an appreciable increase in power a reason to see the world.
There are plenty of problems with GW2.. down scaling is not one of them. Down scaling allows for a myriad of things to be possible.. dungeons that will remain consistently hard, world bosses in lower level zones, map completion is actually an accomplishment (rather than a faceroll). If you didn't have down scaling.. 70% of the dungeons would be a joke, most world bosses would die almost instantly - although they do need some improvements - map completion,and thus legendaries, would be easy to get. Does any of that make sense to you?
I get it.. you feel that you have some "god given right" to do big numbers to mobs that are lower level than you. Get over yourself. Kind of off topic, but I'm tired of this community. You have a group of people that feel the need to comment on every post even though they have absolutely no clue what they are talking about, another group of people who just want to complain about everything.. it's tiring.
Whether you like downscaling in a game or not, it doesn't really matter for gw2. The game is designed with this in mind. Any lower lvl major event would become silly if some max lvl max geared came stomping through. It would skew contribution scores in a bad way for events.
Then there is the immersion factor. The levels are there, but they were never intended to make that much of an impact, just a means of progression for your character. That is another reason why you downscale in the game.
If would be a total fail for their design if they would make scaling down optional.
So yeah, as high lvl player you can actually die in low lvl areas if you are bad at the game. The downscaling can even work in your disadvantage in some cases because Bosses sometimes automatically see you as the biggest threat. Deal with it.
I forget what game it was, but you could "apprentice" people that were 10+ levels below your level and then they could join you on more difficult content.
They wouldn't have the skills and abilities of someone your level, but they'd have the HP and base DPS.
I prefer this method over down scaling to their level. I earned my character so why should I have to be the one that suffers?
Comments
They would have been just fine IF you didn't have to get levels...
Thats starting with a faulty premise, and ending up with a preposterous conclusion.
At level 10, there shouldn't be any major risk, its a time for character and plot development. The idea that there is some extreme threat to the realm that must be quelled by young recruits is a farce. Sounds more like another example of trying to make players feel like they're important before they done anything to deserve it.
In the world I live in, if I go to school and gain wisdom, I don't all of a sudden lose it when I go to the market. If I save up and buy a sports car, it doesn't turn into a pinto when I pull up to the mall. If I spend months getting ripped, I don't don a pot belly when I walk into a movie theater. That would be silly.
Ditto for me, it's a great way for friends to play along side one another at any time which in this era of musical MMOs is invaluable. I think the mechanic could be toggled but beings the rewards, even for low level content, are scaled up to the character's real level because the difficulty is relatively the same, other systems would have to change with the addition of the toggle.
Overall I think it's a great mechanic as-is to make a game world's content meaningful even if higher level. Personally I think steamrolling content is boring and very unrealistic. So I could fight a bear at level 14 but now that's easy and this small bird thing is pushing my skills at level 50? Another consideration specific to GW2 is that there are many areas that would be missed with a single character without down scaling.
I'm really happy they are making the down scaling even more in line with difficulty comparisons. In a time when devs constantly make content easier this is intriguing.
You're not nerfed though, you're dealing out the same amount of damage relative to the current level content you are experiencing. You're getting caught up on a cosmetic number basically. If there wasn't damage numbers at all, you would probably notice the health of the enemy actually going down more quickly than it would vs. a level 80 mob since you're still statistically more powerful than the mobs in the area due to your gear and traits.
I also wouldn't call it shallow, but you're basically caught up on a number that is statistically relative to the damage you would deal at any level with the same build and gear.
Of course, we all love seeing "big numbers" from time to time.
I am right there with ya on that!
GW2 down scaling is not perfect, but I do like it. So many times in other MMOs having a high level running through has killed my experience. Like in ESO and doing Dolmens only to have a high level come and one shot everything. I much rather have a down scaled player come assist me and make it fun.
You managed to miss the entire point of my reply.
The WoW example I provided, Zalazane holding the Echo Isles, existed in the Orc and Troll shared starting zone....for years. Through multiple expansion packs. If levels had any true meaning on story (and my example is an example as to why story, levels and perceived power don't always line up), then any one of our characters should have been able to go back and defeat Zalazane at level 15 or even 20. Let alone being a problem for the entire might of the Horde for literal years.
Secondly, you entire second paragraph has NOTHING to do with how downscaling works in GW2.
Your character doesn't lose knowledge. They have all of their skills, traits when downleveled.
The car in your example could be gear I guess. Your gear is still the exotic gear with all of your runes and sigils (remains a sports car).
Your character is still "ripped". You're dealing similar damage in relation to your skills/traits/gear as you would vs. a level 80 mob. Actually, you're dealing with those downscaled mobs more easily since the mobs themselves are designed to not be as difficult as a mob in a level 80 zone. In essence, you're more ripped vs. weaker mobs in general.
If damage numbers were shown in percentages instead of actual damage numbers, you should still see the same relative damage regardless of the level of your character. Your build and traits would be the wild card to decrease and increase your relative damage output. Which is also stated in the video of the OP.
So much of the griefing constant in other games just isn't really possible in a scaling world. I'm sure that annoyed the sorts of people who enjoy such behaviors. And there's the "where did my Big Numbers go, shrinkage oh noes" factor, of course.
On the other hand, there's nowhere in the world you can simply stroll from point A to point B over land without constantly battling (which I found pretty tedious and unrealistic from a "living world" POV).
Like all social experiments, you discover there just ain't no perfect answer.
Personally I've never been crazy about the idea, I also do not like the level scaling introduced in Oblivion with the TES series. Yet at least in that case the Mobs changed as you got higher in level. WHile I can understand the argument that it makes the world usable to all levels, the problem is it removes the feeling of progression far too much. On top of that it's not fresh content, so it gets old. I feel no desire to go back and do it all again.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes it is very bad and for many reasons,the most important being immersion.I could use a lot of analogies to show why.
The ONLY reason for scaling is to suit YOUR needs,that alone is not a good reason,nothing in the world changes to suit you,the only plausible solution is that you make the changes.Lore,EVERY game should have LORE and the inhabitants should always make sense,they should not look and feel like computer code that just switches whenever a player wants it to.
Now imagine you have a Corvette,you want it to suit your needs,so you change the motor to a 4 cylinder,you want better seating space so you change it to be bigger,you want it ti handle like an off road vehicle so you change it's suspension,wheel size etc etc,you no longer have a Corvette.The same thing goes for any mob in a game,once you change it,there is no longer any identification with that mob,it is just computer code.
Also using this game,they were waving a flag on realism,about how the dynamic content changed the world,well why go for plausible realism then turn around and defy it with scaling,it is like your team's thought process was going in different directions.
SOE "EQ2" was imo the first to try it with it's one expansion "Splitpaw Saga" and never went back to it again,i think they learned that it is just a bad idea.I now see the same idea used in Square Enix FFXi and FFXIV,imo that is just being cheap because instead of creating variable content to suit the needs of variables levels,they just scale the same content to be repeatable,cheap,lazy and not cool.
This falls under the same Item Level idea we are seeing games do,it is scaling content to your weapon/gear,that is again a lame idea trying to cut corners on development.Bottom line is developers are always looking for EASIER ways for them to make content,i prefer to see the effort.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Folks folks.
At release a down scaled level 80 would either kill a low level mob 1-2 hits or stand there taking hits all day.
There was no problem - you would feel way more powerful then when you started and it was quite easy for down scaled characters solo champions that would trash a real low level character.
I've posted pictures showing this before and if you want I can go dig them.
The problem is last patch change.
Now, until you are level 60, a real low level character with proper gear will do more damage than a down scaled max level character.
That happens because low level gear has either 1 or 2 attributes while max level has 3 attributes.
So lets say at level 2 a piece of armor gives +10 to a single attribute. The scaling down formula is now trying to split 14 points between 3 attributes. That means the primary attribute of the low level will be higher than the down scaled character. (note the numbers are made up and only presented to explain the overall situation)
In addition previously some attribute points were attached to traits while now you get them as you level.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The primary flaw of not having downscaling is that you're effectively closing the gate behind you every time you move to a higher level/zone. Lower level content is no longer viable. The challenge is gone. The loot is worthless. You break the balance intent of the map for characters of the appropriate levels. You may like facerolling mobs sixty levels your junior, but you look like an idiot doing it, especially to people trying do to their own things. Large events would be ruined by a handful of high levels melting the boss in moments.
Down-leveling keeps all content viable. In addition, it allows for the low level areas to drop level appropriate loot for your character without breaking the economy. You can get level 80 drops in a level 20 zone because you have to take the time to get that loot as opposed to one-shotting the map and getting mass quantities of garbage.
Oderint, dum metuant.
There are pros and cons.
I have enjoyed from time to time to return to some low area as high level player where in past I have been tormented by some elite mob that now I could kill with single shot. Like Hogger. :-)
On pros, one can enjoy low level areas that were skipped while leveling. But big minus here is all loot from quest givers is suited to original level, meaning completely useless to higher level chars.
At least when it comes to GW2, not entirely useless, as some of the heart vendors you unlock can have unique armor and weapon skins that you can unlock and use at any level.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
Then you are not playing the game.
You are just abusing a highlevel to zerg you through the content, which will end in you reaching max level in 1 day and then uninstall the game as it is "too boring, not enough content, no challenge"
It would also end in botting players 1-shotting everything to farm quest content to sell on the markets.
No thanks.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Why have levels if you are down-scaled to match the zone level? I'm with Kano as far as leveling is concerned. If I take the time to reach whatever the max level is then I should feel an appreciable difference in power when moving around the world. However, if you enjoy the down-scaling in GW2, power to you. Why have down-scaling when it makes levels irrelevant? Why not just have scaling? Whatever zone you enter, you are an appropriate level. However, skill acquisition to zone and event completion. That way you can explore the world to you hearts content but if you want to have access to all of your skills, you must complete lower end content. Gives people who want the whole world to be viable that option but those who want an appreciable increase in power a reason to see the world.
There are plenty of problems with GW2.. down scaling is not one of them. Down scaling allows for a myriad of things to be possible.. dungeons that will remain consistently hard, world bosses in lower level zones, map completion is actually an accomplishment (rather than a faceroll). If you didn't have down scaling.. 70% of the dungeons would be a joke, most world bosses would die almost instantly - although they do need some improvements - map completion,and thus legendaries, would be easy to get. Does any of that make sense to you?
I get it.. you feel that you have some "god given right" to do big numbers to mobs that are lower level than you. Get over yourself. Kind of off topic, but I'm tired of this community. You have a group of people that feel the need to comment on every post even though they have absolutely no clue what they are talking about, another group of people who just want to complain about everything.. it's tiring.
Whether you like downscaling in a game or not, it doesn't really matter for gw2. The game is designed with this in mind. Any lower lvl major event would become silly if some max lvl max geared came stomping through. It would skew contribution scores in a bad way for events.
Then there is the immersion factor. The levels are there, but they were never intended to make that much of an impact, just a means of progression for your character. That is another reason why you downscale in the game.
If would be a total fail for their design if they would make scaling down optional.
So yeah, as high lvl player you can actually die in low lvl areas if you are bad at the game. The downscaling can even work in your disadvantage in some cases because Bosses sometimes automatically see you as the biggest threat. Deal with it.
Lol. Absolutely nothing in GW2 could be described as a challenge.
I forget what game it was, but you could "apprentice" people that were 10+ levels below your level and then they could join you on more difficult content.
They wouldn't have the skills and abilities of someone your level, but they'd have the HP and base DPS.
I prefer this method over down scaling to their level. I earned my character so why should I have to be the one that suffers?
This.
Downscaling allows the entire world to be viable for use across all levels.