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Why Knights Of The Fallen Empire Will Be Good But Still A Major Disapointment

I used to contemplate playing SWTOR, I completed the first planet as the Galactic Republic, Jedi Guardian, I really liked the game. My major problem with it though was how small the game world was, Vanialla Wow's game world is bigger, the Planets feel restricted in SWTOR, it really isn't a huge open game world except for a couple planets that sort of feel like that.

It is also one of the most story/single player based MMO's, after you finish all of the story and level up then you can do Flashpoints, space pvp, battlegrounds/arenas or world pvp. I suppose that cold be fun, it just disappoints me how small the game world is and it seems like this expansion seems focused on story elements alone. What about more pvp content and larger game worlds? Seems like PVP is going down the drain with now since the factions are all different, what is it? Some mysterious faction vs  Sith Empire/Republic?That would be so stupid because you would go to one of the world pvp planets where it is still Sith vs Republic in Cold War Status then you would all be allies when you are on a pvp planet against this mysterious new faction. 

The main MMO's I play right now are Planetside 2 and Star Trek Online, I also play Command and Conquer 3 Kanes Wrath and Halo Master Chief Collection on Xbox One. I really don't have time for another MMO and it becomes really hard to play more than two mmo's without neglecting one, if I ever did play SWTOR then I bet I will play it like a single player game and never touch it again. 

It just bothers me how these dilemmas on what I should play occupies my mind so much, it is very annoying.

Comments

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by ImperatorBellus

    It just bothers me how these dilemmas on what I should play occupies my mind so much, it is very annoying.

    You should consider yourself lucky. Some people on this site complain non-stop about how awful today's games are and how they have absolutely nothing to play. image

    As for the PvP, they've pretty much confirmed that it'll stay Empire vs Republic when they confirmed that Republic and Empire players wouldn't be able to team up for content. (wouldn't be PvP otherwise, since the new faction isn't a playable one)

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,768

    What is so wrong about playing it as a single player game and never touching it again?   Is there a law against that?

     

    Swtor is about as themeparky a game as I have played.  But thats ok for me I don't mind themeparks, for some quick fun.  But its never going to be a large world for exploring.  The exploring is done through the stories.  

     

    So if you don't like this type of game stay away from it.  But it is what it is and expecting them to change it to something else is a bit naive.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,643
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    What is so wrong about playing it as a single player game and never touching it again?   Is there a law against that?

     

    Swtor is about as themeparky a game as I have played.  But thats ok for me I don't mind themeparks, for some quick fun.  But its never going to be a large world for exploring.  The exploring is done through the stories.  

     

    So if you don't like this type of game stay away from it.  But it is what it is and expecting them to change it to something else is a bit naive.

    Well, people that love Star Wars and MMO's might be a tad disappointed that the only one around is best played as a single player game to be discarded.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,606
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    What is so wrong about playing it as a single player game and never touching it again?   Is there a law against that?

    That up there.

    Like many games before it, SWTOR's endgame has never interested me.  I've never been a raider or a dungeon grinder... only occasionally do I bother with dailies, and with SWTOR that hasn't changed.

    This ultimately results in me finishing the SP content, running the group content a couple times, rolling alts, and cancelling my sub.  I haven't stayed more than 2 months at a time since launch.

    And that's ok with me.

    Now in October, they're promising monthly content*, so that might change my MMO migrating patterns, we'll see.  But if it don't, that's fine by me. 

    *honestly, I hate when a game promises monthly content.  Because it never friggin' happens and is pretty much always unfeasible.  STO and NW have events every few weeks; that's about as close as I have seen.

     

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by Robsolf
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    What is so wrong about playing it as a single player game and never touching it again?   Is there a law against that?

    That up there.

    Like many games before it, SWTOR's endgame has never interested me.  I've never been a raider or a dungeon grinder... only occasionally do I bother with dailies, and with SWTOR that hasn't changed.

    This ultimately results in me finishing the SP content, running the group content a couple times, rolling alts, and cancelling my sub.  I haven't stayed more than 2 months at a time since launch.

    And that's ok with me.

    Now in October, they're promising monthly content*, so that might change my MMO migrating patterns, we'll see.  But if it don't, that's fine by me. 

    *honestly, I hate when a game promises monthly content.  Because it never friggin' happens and is pretty much always unfeasible.  STO and NW have events every few weeks; that's about as close as I have seen.

     

    City of Heroes managed it. They released a storyline pack each month, which contained a few missions, that were free for subs. (and available in the store for others)

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,025

    This is Bioware's new focus for Swtor. The mmo component of the game is secondary and I expect it to be streamlined in the future effectively turning the game more into a single lobby experience. They have admitted that making Swtor a themepark mmo clone was actually a bad idea. It was decided upon too late in development after they already were locked into a very poor engine. Now they likely want to revert the game even more to their original small group story experience they had originally planned.

     

    Why is it this way? Because they have detailed metrics and feedback clearly revealing who their main audience is. This new business direction for Swtor only means that even less attention to pvp and some other more mmo mechanics will be given. Any revamp of such systems will likely be to simplify it and ensure it impacts less on single player and small group story telling.

     

    Basically Swtor is narrowing their scope on who they want to play their game. This is what more companies need to do. Some of us who love pvp (as I do) have been left screwed for years already with little to no attention given to it. I have no idea what they will do to pvp but I am sure it will be to have it impact pve less and less. The best thing I can suggest for them is to separate ranked into it's own mini-game separate from even normal warzones which should be removed entirely from gear grind and have anyone wanting casual pvp simply queue in with pre-determined stats balanced against everyone else ... level and gear would mean nothing.

     

    In a pve story driven game pvp should simply be an outlet for alternate fun. Those wanting to play the pvp gear grind and fotm class swapping can do so without impact on anyone else. Balance should be 90% directed toward pve as ranked pvp players are nothing more than elitists who will swap to another build or character instantly to gain any edge. They do it already so Bioware should ignore them completely and focus on pve story for the betterment of the game.

    You stay sassy!

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Robsolf
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    What is so wrong about playing it as a single player game and never touching it again?   Is there a law against that?

    That up there.

    Like many games before it, SWTOR's endgame has never interested me.  I've never been a raider or a dungeon grinder... only occasionally do I bother with dailies, and with SWTOR that hasn't changed.

    This ultimately results in me finishing the SP content, running the group content a couple times, rolling alts, and cancelling my sub.  I haven't stayed more than 2 months at a time since launch.

    And that's ok with me.

    Now in October, they're promising monthly content*, so that might change my MMO migrating patterns, we'll see.  But if it don't, that's fine by me. 

    *honestly, I hate when a game promises monthly content.  Because it never friggin' happens and is pretty much always unfeasible.  STO and NW have events every few weeks; that's about as close as I have seen.

     

    And me too!! Sometimes I just wanna slash some things with a lightsaber. I just don't want to have to do it indefinitely. I want to experience more. Monthly updates would be nice, but not a necessity for me. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,025
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Robsolf
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    What is so wrong about playing it as a single player game and never touching it again?   Is there a law against that?

    That up there.

    Like many games before it, SWTOR's endgame has never interested me.  I've never been a raider or a dungeon grinder... only occasionally do I bother with dailies, and with SWTOR that hasn't changed.

    This ultimately results in me finishing the SP content, running the group content a couple times, rolling alts, and cancelling my sub.  I haven't stayed more than 2 months at a time since launch.

    And that's ok with me.

    Now in October, they're promising monthly content*, so that might change my MMO migrating patterns, we'll see.  But if it don't, that's fine by me. 

    *honestly, I hate when a game promises monthly content.  Because it never friggin' happens and is pretty much always unfeasible.  STO and NW have events every few weeks; that's about as close as I have seen.

     

    And me too!! Sometimes I just wanna slash some things with a lightsaber. I just don't want to have to do it indefinitely. I want to experience more. Monthly updates would be nice, but not a necessity for me. 

    The monthly story arc updates sure sound nice and give reason for continued return to the game. It is an old and still common argument that mmos are only worth returning to for short a duration. Considering that many old mmos offered years of game play this is a valid argument but the sad truth is that companies are now developing their game around it. Bioware fully understands that their mmo is dependent upon new story and content to keep players playing. It isn't a game with a great deal of emergent game play. Players are driven directly by the content generated by Bioware.

     

    The best Bioware can do is understand what their game is. They know by metrics and feedback that the majority of game play is dominated by pve players playing the game for story so they are adapting their game around this with a more steady flow of story telling. Going the other route of game system and mechanic driven emergent game play is beyond their ability due to the combination of original game concept and their unbelievably terrible game engine. Overall this is a smart decision by them but it will indeed alienate certain types of players from this game.

     

    What keeps me returning is Swtor's terrible mmo mechanics. Frankly I'd seek other mmos for a better mmorpg experience but I do like their story drive approach too. I'd just love to see them evolve their entire mmo game around their new focus instead of ignoring what is broken for so damn long.

    You stay sassy!

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000

    I'm really interested to see what they come up with for the f2p players.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by Octagon7711

    I'm really interested to see what they come up with for the f2p players.

    I imagine nothing will really change there. They'll have to invest if they really want to do it all.

    Before it was RotHC that they had to buy, then it was SoR, and now they'll just have to subscribe for a month to receive the most up to date content. (Pretty much always has been an investment of 15-20 bucks)

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • BlackWatchBlackWatch Member UncommonPosts: 972

    As others have said, it's an awfully funny time for Bioware to be spitting out metrics/numbers after letting 12x XP run for a while.

    Are players going to be focussed on end-game content PvE/PvP?  No.  

    Are players going to be leveling up characters?  Yes.

    So, if I capture metrics on the game right now, the numbers will be a bit misleading.  Furthermore, if I'm an executive and looking at current numbers, I'm going to assume that nobody gives a damn about PvP content.  There is 'little' interest in end-game PvE.  I'm probably going to think that the only thing people care about is... leveling and character story.

    Sadly, I genuinely feel that the team @ Bioware is running into the same issues that the team at SOE did when they ran a game based off of the Star Wars IP... they don't know how to process player feedback correctly.  They lack the appropriate channels for creative and constructive feedback.  What do executives take from misleading numbers and anemic feedback?  Negativity.  Players hate our game.  Change it.  Do something.  Anything.  

    And so then, what are the developers to do with their new marching orders?  Not much.  What's the one thing they can pump out without qualitative data?  Story.  

    I would say at least 50-60% of the players that I played with have left the game.  These are players that I used to play SWG, WoW, and other games with.  

    Why did they leave?

    Poor game performance.  Where is our 64-bit client?  No matter what hardware or bandwidth that I throw at the game, it's still a slug.

    Lack of cross-realm support.  As server numbers drop or as queues for PvP, raid teams, etc., take longer, cross-realms would've helped.

    Space combat has always been a sore subject for the game... both PvP and PvE are in need of help. 

    IMHO... Bioware focussing on story without fixing other systems is a slap in the face to players who have been waiting for various aspects of the game to be fixed.  

    I love Star Wars.  I play Star Wars the Old Republic because it's Star Wars.  If the game was just a SciFi MMO, then I wouldn't give it a 2nd look. 

     

    image

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by BlackWatch

    As others have said, it's an awfully funny time for Bioware to be spitting out metrics/numbers after letting 12x XP run for a while.

    Are players going to be focussed on end-game content PvE/PvP?  No.  

    Are players going to be leveling up characters?  Yes.

    So, if I capture metrics on the game right now, the numbers will be a bit misleading.  Furthermore, if I'm an executive and looking at current numbers, I'm going to assume that nobody gives a damn about PvP content.  There is 'little' interest in end-game PvE.  I'm probably going to think that the only thing people care about is... leveling and character story.

    Sadly, I genuinely feel that the team @ Bioware is running into the same issues that the team at SOE did when they ran a game based off of the Star Wars IP... they don't know how to process player feedback correctly.  They lack the appropriate channels for creative and constructive feedback.  What do executives take from misleading numbers and anemic feedback?  Negativity.  Players hate our game.  Change it.  Do something.  Anything.  

    And so then, what are the developers to do with their new marching orders?  Not much.  What's the one thing they can pump out without qualitative data?  Story.  

    I would say at least 50-60% of the players that I played with have left the game.  These are players that I used to play SWG, WoW, and other games with.  

    Why did they leave?

    Poor game performance.  Where is our 64-bit client?  No matter what hardware or bandwidth that I throw at the game, it's still a slug.

    Lack of cross-realm support.  As server numbers drop or as queues for PvP, raid teams, etc., take longer, cross-realms would've helped.

    Space combat has always been a sore subject for the game... both PvP and PvE are in need of help. 

    IMHO... Bioware focussing on story without fixing other systems is a slap in the face to players who have been waiting for various aspects of the game to be fixed.  

    I love Star Wars.  I play Star Wars the Old Republic because it's Star Wars.  If the game was just a SciFi MMO, then I wouldn't give it a 2nd look. 

     

    The 12x xp was also a result of their metrics. Every MMO company out there keeps detailed numbers on everything you do from the moment you set foot in their game. They know how many mobs you've killed and what kinds, how many quests you've completed and how many (and more importantly which ones) you've skipped, etc... probably down to how long you pause to admire a certain NPC in the world, and how often you go afk (or at least tab out of the game).

    Don't try to twist their words to suit your conspiracy theories, they've released numbers before. Between the exit surveys, and their collected data that shows where most people lose interest, they have a very good idea what their player base wants.

    It's irrelevant what SWG Fan #2 and his buddies want, since most of them want a completely different game anyway. (AKA "Throw out the story 'crap' and make it a boring grind and gank fest like the game that already failed.")

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • IG-88IG-88 Member UncommonPosts: 143

    I read the article thoroghly and while English isnt my native language, i dont consider myself illiterate.

    I really cant fine anything game changing in the expansion, even if some posters here seem to Think its going to be a total revam with new game Engine, combat style and what not.

    Its just an expansion, and they dont even charge extra for it!

    Lets not speculate, but stick to the few facts, which are quite hard to find.

     

     

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,606
    Originally posted by BlackWatch

    As others have said, it's an awfully funny time for Bioware to be spitting out metrics/numbers after letting 12x XP run for a while.

    Are players going to be focussed on end-game content PvE/PvP?  No.  

    Are players going to be leveling up characters?  Yes.

    So, if I capture metrics on the game right now, the numbers will be a bit misleading.  Furthermore, if I'm an executive and looking at current numbers, I'm going to assume that nobody gives a damn about PvP content.  There is 'little' interest in end-game PvE.  I'm probably going to think that the only thing people care about is... leveling and character story.

    Sadly, I genuinely feel that the team @ Bioware is running into the same issues that the team at SOE did when they ran a game based off of the Star Wars IP... they don't know how to process player feedback correctly.  They lack the appropriate channels for creative and constructive feedback.  What do executives take from misleading numbers and anemic feedback?  Negativity.  Players hate our game.  Change it.  Do something.  Anything.  

    And so then, what are the developers to do with their new marching orders?  Not much.  What's the one thing they can pump out without qualitative data?  Story.  

    I would say at least 50-60% of the players that I played with have left the game.  These are players that I used to play SWG, WoW, and other games with.  

    Why did they leave?

    Poor game performance.  Where is our 64-bit client?  No matter what hardware or bandwidth that I throw at the game, it's still a slug.

    Lack of cross-realm support.  As server numbers drop or as queues for PvP, raid teams, etc., take longer, cross-realms would've helped.

    Space combat has always been a sore subject for the game... both PvP and PvE are in need of help. 

    IMHO... Bioware focussing on story without fixing other systems is a slap in the face to players who have been waiting for various aspects of the game to be fixed.  

    I love Star Wars.  I play Star Wars the Old Republic because it's Star Wars.  If the game was just a SciFi MMO, then I wouldn't give it a 2nd look. 

     

    Methinx your causality meter is busted.  12X exists because their data mining indicated such a thing would be popular.  And it clearly was, or else they'd not have brought it back.

    Though without a doubt, the popularity of 12X itself IS probably telling them something.  I think that's true.

    I can only use myself for an example, but I can't help but think that their move back to story was spurred by how people like me play the game.  Before 12X, I'd subscribe 1-2 months every year or so, then cancel.  12X hasn't changed much about that, BUT during those couple months, despite having toons for every class that are at least level 50, I'm creating new characters and running the stories over again in 12X.  I'm skipping out on the endgame content and gear grind to go back to the stories that I've already experienced.

    When I look at the direction they seem to be going with KotFE, it looks alot like the answer to the question:  "How do we get players like RobSoLF back, and keep them subscribed?"

    We'll see if it's the right answer, or even the right question.

  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,015

    if they only look at numbers on activities done then PvP would have gotten way more attention. according to them  selves awhile ago almost half of everything killed in the game was from PvP.. think about that for a second.

     

    to me it looks like they're just focusing on what they are good at or least likely to screw up.

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

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