There was a female only guild in Everquest on our server once. It quickly dissolved into nothingness.
Not because it was female only, but because the idea that someone distances itself from the wider community meant it lost all support from our community.
The larger more important guilds, of which I was part, fully embraced the idea of blocking those members from groups and to avoid accepting members from the female only guild. The female only guild dissolved after a few months.
These are shenanigans for Twitter, not for MMO. Gaming is one of the few places where gender doesn't and shouldn't matter, and I would like to keep it that way.
Do you really only go out of your way (choose) associate with people that are like you? I'm not sure what to say about that...
I am pretty active in my city's tabletop gaming scene (board games, PnP RPGs etc) and, have to say, my table is open to anyone that's a decent person. We have folks from across the economic, social, political, gender, ethnic, whatever else, spectrums playing happily.
Segregation only leads, ultimately, to ignorance IMO.
Makes sense, you all share the same interest. How do you differ than me on this?
Because I don't choose to only hang out 'with my own kind'?
These are just my gaming buddies in that one area. I happily extend that same philosophy right across my life.
Oh really?
How much do you hang out with the boxers at the local gym? Or the football players from school?
Been out hunting with a group of friends lately? Did your neighbor take you to the gun show this weekend?
I doubt any of this. Not that I think there is anything wrong with it.
However, isn't the OP asking if I should be offended that you prefer to hang out with table top gamers, but not the Local Gardening Society in your neighborhood? But of course, when I do it, you see this as segregation? Little harsh, don't you think?
There was a female only guild in Everquest on our server once. It quickly dissolved into nothingness.
Not because it was female only, but because the idea that someone distances itself from the wider community meant it lost all support from our community.
The larger more important guilds, of which I was part, fully embraced the idea of blocking those members from groups and to avoid accepting members from the female only guild. The female only guild dissolved after a few months.
These are shenanigans for Twitter, not for MMO. Gaming is one of the few places where gender doesn't and shouldn't matter, and I would like to keep it that way.
Especially with EQ. It was so community-driven. Everyone pretty much new who you were and your reputation, unlike today.
Hell, I still remember the most hated person on my SWG server. He was KoS / Grief on Sight, no matter what we were doing or where we were going.
Do you really only go out of your way (choose) associate with people that are like you? I'm not sure what to say about that...
I am pretty active in my city's tabletop gaming scene (board games, PnP RPGs etc) and, have to say, my table is open to anyone that's a decent person. We have folks from across the economic, social, political, gender, ethnic, whatever else, spectrums playing happily.
Segregation only leads, ultimately, to ignorance IMO.
Makes sense, you all share the same interest. How do you differ than me on this?
Because I don't choose to only hang out 'with my own kind'?
These are just my gaming buddies in that one area. I happily extend that same philosophy right across my life.
Oh really?
How much do you hang out with the boxers at the local gym? Or the football players from school?
Been out hunting with a group of friends lately? Did your neighbor take you to the gun show this weekend?
I would be open to having any of these people as part of my social circle.
I actually do know folks that hunt, and I do know doormen that box (I was a manager at a nightclub for years). I still meet up for a beer with them every few months.
Like I say, I don't try and segregate myself from 'other types'. I don't build self imposed barriers.
How much do you hang out with the boxers at the local gym? Or the football players from school?
Been out hunting with a group of friends lately? Did your neighbor take you to the gun show this weekend?
I would be open to having any of these people as part of my social circle.
I actually do know folks that hunt, and I do know doormen that box (I was a manager at a nightclub for years). I still meet up for a beer with them every few months.
Like I say, I don't try and segregate myself from 'other types'. I don't build self imposed barriers.
So, yeah, really
To each his own. Would you agree?
Can you expand how an all female guild looks bad? I guess I forgot to ask that earlier.
How much do you hang out with the boxers at the local gym? Or the football players from school?
Been out hunting with a group of friends lately? Did your neighbor take you to the gun show this weekend?
I would be open to having any of these people as part of my social circle.
I actually do know folks that hunt, and I do know doormen that box (I was a manager at a nightclub for years). I still meet up for a beer with them every few months.
Like I say, I don't try and segregate myself from 'other types'. I don't build self imposed barriers.
So, yeah, really
To each his own. Would you agree?
Can you expand how an all female guild looks bad? I guess I forgot to ask that earlier.
My personal view is that women only change anything by being part of everything.
Women locking themselves away into self built social ghettos doesn't move us forward at all and just creates distrust, suspicion, and ignorance.
We spend too much time trying to tell other people what they should believe and then trying to punish them for not believing in a politically correct manner.
If someone wants to have a Guild that consists of guys named John that are all born on June 20th... well.. good for them. Crying about who someone else wants to group with is just.... sad.
If a group of females want to have a female only guild called Valkyries... good for them.
Guilds are not necessarily meant to be some all-inclusive group. If they were, why would they exist if everyone on the server was in it? Guilds function to set you APART from the rest of the server. To say " THIS IS US". Trying to control who people identify with is just... sad.
We spend too much time trying to tell other people what they should believe and then trying to punish them for not believing in a politically correct manner.
Guilds are not necessarily meant to be some all-inclusive group. If they were, why would they exist if everyone on the server was in it? Guilds function to set you APART from the rest of the server. To say " THIS IS US". Trying to control who people identify with is just... sad.
How much do you hang out with the boxers at the local gym? Or the football players from school?
Been out hunting with a group of friends lately? Did your neighbor take you to the gun show this weekend?
I would be open to having any of these people as part of my social circle.
I actually do know folks that hunt, and I do know doormen that box (I was a manager at a nightclub for years). I still meet up for a beer with them every few months.
Like I say, I don't try and segregate myself from 'other types'. I don't build self imposed barriers.
So, yeah, really
To each his own. Would you agree?
Can you expand how an all female guild looks bad? I guess I forgot to ask that earlier.
My personal view is that women only change anything by being part of everything.
Women locking themselves away into self built social ghettos doesn't move us forward at all and just creates distrust, suspicion, and ignorance.
Integration all the way.
Do you respect their right to choose, even if you don't believe in it?
How much do you hang out with the boxers at the local gym? Or the football players from school?
Been out hunting with a group of friends lately? Did your neighbor take you to the gun show this weekend?
I would be open to having any of these people as part of my social circle.
I actually do know folks that hunt, and I do know doormen that box (I was a manager at a nightclub for years). I still meet up for a beer with them every few months.
Like I say, I don't try and segregate myself from 'other types'. I don't build self imposed barriers.
So, yeah, really
To each his own. Would you agree?
Can you expand how an all female guild looks bad? I guess I forgot to ask that earlier.
My personal view is that women only change anything by being part of everything.
Women locking themselves away into self built social ghettos doesn't move us forward at all and just creates distrust, suspicion, and ignorance.
Integration all the way.
Do you respect their right to choose, even if you don't believe in it?
Of course I do. All I have done here is given opinions and my perspective.
I can respect the right to express an opinion without respecting the opinion itself.
People are free to not respect mine, I don't really care that much. I put it out there, you can do what you want with it.
Do they do better in life as well? How are their social skills? What are their views of the other gender?
I question wether they atually do better, and if they do, should women wear burka so as not to distract men? But I think we're getting off-topic a little bit though...
The problem is that people that haven't done anythig wrong gets kicked out or excluded from a guild solely because of their gender. That's not the kind of guilds or attitude I want to support.
Well language restricted guilds are understandable, because if you can't communicate in that language, there isn't any point in being in the guild, although it's possible to an extent.
But gender doesn't have to affect your gaming whatsoever, so that's an unreasonable requirement for a guild.
I care about it, just like a care about a guild not being allowed to be racist.
And no it's definitely not just their own business, because it affects the gaming community, it discrimininates people. And THAT'S a PERIOD!
If discrimination is in the game then it's there, to pretend it isn't is being naive. Or perhaps being accepting of it.
And the rest of the crap you wrote is just an attempt to derail the thread.
Hi!
Guilds are not necessarily meant to be some all-inclusive group. If they were, why would they exist if everyone on the server was in it? Guilds function to set you APART from the rest of the server. To say " THIS IS US". Trying to control who people identify with is just... sad.
If you want to make a guild with open recruiting knock yourself out!
If someone else wants to recruit people who's name begins with J... LET THEM
If someone else wants to recruit only people that are unemployed... Go for it!
Stop trying to control who OTHER people can game with.
You make a great point.
I wonder what mental trauma is caused by "Spanish-Speaking Only" guilds will be.
How about by age group?
How about "Sorry, we don't invite class x, they suck".
Do you respect their right to choose, even if you don't believe in it?
Of course I do. All I have done here is given opinions and my perspective.
I can respect the right to express an opinion without respecting the opinion itself.
People are free to not respect mine, I don't really care that much. I put it out there, you can do what you want with it.
Nah, I didn't mean it that way.
I just mean if it came down to you, personally, to change the rules for guilds, would you force integration, or let them have the right to choose for themselves?
Do you respect their right to choose, even if you don't believe in it?
Of course I do. All I have done here is given opinions and my perspective.
I can respect the right to express an opinion without respecting the opinion itself.
People are free to not respect mine, I don't really care that much. I put it out there, you can do what you want with it.
Nah, I didn't mean it that way.
I just mean if it came down to you, personally, to change the rules for guilds, would you force integration, or let them have the right to choose for themselves?
I would advise as to how it is a bad thing and that meeting and gaming with people who are different to you is a good thing and makes you a broader, more knowledgeable, more tolerant, and more interesting person.
But, no, I have no interest in 'changing rules' for anyone. I wouldn't force anything. I see no point in that.
Sorry to say but girls suck and cause problems the only solution is to remove either all the males or all the females from the situation. In saying that I've met afew girls from games irl before and been quite thankful that all the guilds I've been in from the past haven't been of only one gender.
Originally posted by Akulas Sorry to say but girls suck and cause problems the only solution is to remove either all the males or all the females from the situation. In saying that I've met afew girls from games irl before and been quite thankful that all the guilds I've been in from the past haven't been of only one gender.
I agree.
There's the ones that are there for attention and drama, not the game.
And then there is a few who are there for the game and don't want to be harassed.
If they want to form a guild because it's safer and protects them from constant harassment, then good for them.
Or for the novelty of it.
Or because they hate men.
Their guild, their rules.
Now would a SJW or pseudo-intellectual that took a psychology class, approve? No.
Originally posted by Akulas Sorry to say but girls suck and cause problems the only solution is to remove either all the males or all the females from the situation. In saying that I've met afew girls from games irl before and been quite thankful that all the guilds I've been in from the past haven't been of only one gender.
Reality is, it takes two to tango. People suck. If some really desperate guy with no standards decides to make exceptions to his guild rules just for female attention he is as much at fault as the girl only using him for attention too or free stuff.
Lately I've seen a few female-only guilds in the games I play, and for some reason this was bugging me - I didn't feel it was the right attitude to have towards other players.
I'm not talking about ingame character gender, but the real life gender of the player.
I've known about male-only guilds for a long time, and I didn't really like them, something seemed not right about it to me. So I never joined one.
The reason guilds have been for guys only has been explained with it being the best solution to avoid guild drama due when a girl joins the guild, - the guys start drooling at the girl instead of the endgame loot and the guildmaster (he's ofc male) tears his hair out because of the lack of focus from the members and potential jealousy between them.
This seems like a somewhat valid reason, but it really isn't.
And female-only guilds refuse all males because they want to have a sanctuary from pestering guys, sexual harrasment and all of that. Perhaps being able to talk about whatever they like without getting complaints from guys.
Again seems perfectly understandable, but again the handling of it is wrong.
If we are to have really good guilds to be in, they can't discriminate against real life gender. And to do that we have to look at what's really causing the problems, and that means looking at each individual that gets invited or are already in the guild.
For guilds that find it problematic that girls join, they have to look at the attitudes and behaviour of those that start making drama of a girl being in the guild. Although it could ofc be the girl herself, I bet it would in most cases be a bunch of the guys in that guild that can't cope with having a girl there, and hence they should be the ones to go, not the girl.
Same applies to female only guilds, the one who is actually causing the trouble should be the one that has to leave, not the target of the drama so to speak. If a guy behaves badly they have to leave, but to refuse all guys because of some guys being jerks seems unreasonable to me.
And it could of course be that, theoretically, a guy becomes the target of some drama, while the ones causing it are a bunch of girls. That could also happen, for whatever reason.
So what I want to say is that I don't want to have anything to do with neither male- nor female-only guilds, because it shows a lack of leadership responsibility not to deal with the individuals that aren't actually behaving as they should in a guild, while the ones being invited haven't done anything wrong. (ofc it could be that both parts are misbehaving and then they both have to go).
Hence I would suggest that players boycott those kind of guilds. We don't need more discrimination in the world than what we already have, that's the way I see it anyway.
Originally posted by Akulas Sorry to say but girls suck and cause problems
I agree.
Now would a SJW or pseudo-intellectual that took a psychology class, approve? No.
Didn't get the bite from me that you were looking for, eh? :P
You agree that girls 'suck' and 'cause problems'..?
Wow.
Says the guy that believes how these girls should to play their game and how to associate with others. Taking away choice. You say doing so makes them ignorant, intolerant, etc etc. You said so twice in this thread.
I find it both sad and terrifying that people are finding a need or desire to drag RL issues into make believe games. How can we argue or worry about gender or race when there are firebal throwing, pule rifle wielding, Xray viewing, alien space elves from another dimension in the same game.
These games are supposed to be just that. Games. A place to have fun and escape reality. It is sad that we can't even do that.
I find it both sad and terrifying that people are finding a need or desire to drag RL issues into make believe games. How can we argue or worry about gender or race when there are firebal throwing, pule rifle wielding, Xray viewing, alien space elves from another dimension in the same game.
These games are supposed to be just that. Games. A place to have fun and escape reality. It is sad that we can't even do that.
One of the reasons I stopped playing SWTOR. Or why I'll ignore and move on from the new Marvel Universe comics. Or skip newer movies that come out.
Having RL, 1st-world issues crammed down my throat in every aspect of my life turns me away from all of it.
Do they do better in life as well? How are their social skills? What are their views of the other gender?
I question wether they atually do better, and if they do, should women wear burka so as not to distract men? But I think we're getting off-topic a little bit though...
The problem is that people that haven't done anythig wrong gets kicked out or excluded from a guild solely because of their gender. That's not the kind of guilds or attitude I want to support.
Well language restricted guilds are understandable, because if you can't communicate in that language, there isn't any point in being in the guild, although it's possible to an extent.
But gender doesn't have to affect your gaming whatsoever, so that's an unreasonable requirement for a guild.
I care about it, just like a care about a guild not being allowed to be racist.
And no it's definitely not just their own business, because it affects the gaming community, it discrimininates people. And THAT'S a PERIOD!
If discrimination is in the game then it's there, to pretend it isn't is being naive. Or perhaps being accepting of it.
And the rest of the crap you wrote is just an attempt to derail the thread.
Hi!
Guilds are not necessarily meant to be some all-inclusive group. If they were, why would they exist if everyone on the server was in it? Guilds function to set you APART from the rest of the server. To say " THIS IS US". Trying to control who people identify with is just... sad.
If you want to make a guild with open recruiting knock yourself out!
If someone else wants to recruit people who's name begins with J... LET THEM
If someone else wants to recruit only people that are unemployed... Go for it!
Stop trying to control who OTHER people can game with.
You make a great point.
I wonder what mental trauma is caused by "Spanish-Speaking Only" guilds will be.
How about by age group?
How about "Sorry, we don't invite class x, they suck".
I've seen it all. Their guild, their rules.
"My business, my rules"----an anti-LGBT business owner
"My country, my rules"---- Kim Jong Un
"My religion, my rules" ---ISIS
extreme examples yes, but it enhances the point that if discrimination is ok for one person/group, then it is ok for everyone.
P.S. let's not use the arguement that "it's only a game" if it is a real life factor being used as discrimination.
I haven't seen male/female-only guilds alot, but I've seen them a few times advertising here and there.
But just because the actual guilds aren't a majority, the attitudes linked to them are there all over the place. There's already another thread where OP is a female trying to handle different attention from males.
What I'm saying is there needs to be some attitude change, from the people that think excluding a certain gender will solve the problem, and a heads up to those who don't know what to make of these attitudes and behavior.
That's just the nature of the beast. There's a reason that the stereotype of the average mmo player is an awkward, nerdy, usually pale skinned loser who has had little interaction with women. Not saying everyone is but I've met more fitting that description than not. Gaming is still a wholly male dominated hobby no matter what people say about women making half the population of game players (phone games don't count). Problem is that the few women that DO play these games tend to belong to one of two groups, either they want attention or they want to be left alone, either way they *are* going to get attention and a lot of it. It's unfortunate but that's just what the environment creates.
That's how it's always been, 20 years ago it was no different and in 20 more it will be the same.
Not to sound harsh but you clearly lack any sort of research on the subject of the stereotypical gamer, age demographics, and gender demographics of video game players.
The average age of a gamer is 30 years old, the ratio of male : female gamer is 60 : 40.
The average gamer has a wife and kids and a steady job which allows them to ability to even buy and play games.
So why don't you take that information and adjust that mind set, the nerdy, neck bearded crap is old and has been a dead stereotype for a while.
Comments
There was a female only guild in Everquest on our server once. It quickly dissolved into nothingness.
Not because it was female only, but because the idea that someone distances itself from the wider community meant it lost all support from our community.
The larger more important guilds, of which I was part, fully embraced the idea of blocking those members from groups and to avoid accepting members from the female only guild. The female only guild dissolved after a few months.
These are shenanigans for Twitter, not for MMO. Gaming is one of the few places where gender doesn't and shouldn't matter, and I would like to keep it that way.
Oh really?
How much do you hang out with the boxers at the local gym? Or the football players from school?
Been out hunting with a group of friends lately? Did your neighbor take you to the gun show this weekend?
I doubt any of this. Not that I think there is anything wrong with it.
However, isn't the OP asking if I should be offended that you prefer to hang out with table top gamers, but not the Local Gardening Society in your neighborhood? But of course, when I do it, you see this as segregation? Little harsh, don't you think?
Especially with EQ. It was so community-driven. Everyone pretty much new who you were and your reputation, unlike today.
Hell, I still remember the most hated person on my SWG server. He was KoS / Grief on Sight, no matter what we were doing or where we were going.
I would be open to having any of these people as part of my social circle.
I actually do know folks that hunt, and I do know doormen that box (I was a manager at a nightclub for years). I still meet up for a beer with them every few months.
Like I say, I don't try and segregate myself from 'other types'. I don't build self imposed barriers.
So, yeah, really
To each his own. Would you agree?
Can you expand how an all female guild looks bad? I guess I forgot to ask that earlier.
My personal view is that women only change anything by being part of everything.
Women locking themselves away into self built social ghettos doesn't move us forward at all and just creates distrust, suspicion, and ignorance.
Integration all the way.
Yet here is a post telling what to believe.
Hypocritical.
Do you respect their right to choose, even if you don't believe in it?
Of course I do. All I have done here is given opinions and my perspective.
I can respect the right to express an opinion without respecting the opinion itself.
People are free to not respect mine, I don't really care that much. I put it out there, you can do what you want with it.
You make a great point.
I wonder what mental trauma is caused by "Spanish-Speaking Only" guilds will be.
How about by age group?
How about "Sorry, we don't invite class x, they suck".
I've seen it all. Their guild, their rules.
Nah, I didn't mean it that way.
I just mean if it came down to you, personally, to change the rules for guilds, would you force integration, or let them have the right to choose for themselves?
I would advise as to how it is a bad thing and that meeting and gaming with people who are different to you is a good thing and makes you a broader, more knowledgeable, more tolerant, and more interesting person.
But, no, I have no interest in 'changing rules' for anyone. I wouldn't force anything. I see no point in that.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
I agree.
There's the ones that are there for attention and drama, not the game.
And then there is a few who are there for the game and don't want to be harassed.
If they want to form a guild because it's safer and protects them from constant harassment, then good for them.
Or for the novelty of it.
Or because they hate men.
Their guild, their rules.
Now would a SJW or pseudo-intellectual that took a psychology class, approve? No.
Didn't get the bite from me that you were looking for, eh? :P
You agree that girls 'suck' and 'cause problems'..?
Wow.
Reality is, it takes two to tango. People suck. If some really desperate guy with no standards decides to make exceptions to his guild rules just for female attention he is as much at fault as the girl only using him for attention too or free stuff.
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
You just pretty much explained how the world is
Says the guy that believes how these girls should to play their game and how to associate with others. Taking away choice. You say doing so makes them ignorant, intolerant, etc etc. You said so twice in this thread.
Not suggesting that the OP is doing this but,
I find it both sad and terrifying that people are finding a need or desire to drag RL issues into make believe games. How can we argue or worry about gender or race when there are firebal throwing, pule rifle wielding, Xray viewing, alien space elves from another dimension in the same game.
These games are supposed to be just that. Games. A place to have fun and escape reality. It is sad that we can't even do that.
One of the reasons I stopped playing SWTOR. Or why I'll ignore and move on from the new Marvel Universe comics. Or skip newer movies that come out.
Having RL, 1st-world issues crammed down my throat in every aspect of my life turns me away from all of it.
"My business, my rules"----an anti-LGBT business owner
"My country, my rules"---- Kim Jong Un
"My religion, my rules" ---ISIS
extreme examples yes, but it enhances the point that if discrimination is ok for one person/group, then it is ok for everyone.
P.S. let's not use the arguement that "it's only a game" if it is a real life factor being used as discrimination.
Then don't go to those places?
Not to sound harsh but you clearly lack any sort of research on the subject of the stereotypical gamer, age demographics, and gender demographics of video game players.
The average age of a gamer is 30 years old, the ratio of male : female gamer is 60 : 40.
The average gamer has a wife and kids and a steady job which allows them to ability to even buy and play games.
So why don't you take that information and adjust that mind set, the nerdy, neck bearded crap is old and has been a dead stereotype for a while.