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Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For
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Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign. Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago. I was one of the biggest GM defenders. At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project. I was wrong and I learned my lesson. I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on.
The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community. They were great. I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
I am sorry to hear that you got burned. It never hurts to do some background checks on all EarlyAccess and Kickstarter type deals. I usually google info and check if any of the artwork or screenshots are "borrowed" from other sites using google image search. But most of the time i just wait until the last week to see how it develops. No need to rush anything with Kickstarter.
Good luck next time
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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I have to know, did you believe an MMO could be built for $100k? Or did Appleton claim to have millions from private investors? I'd like to think he was ignorant of what it would take to build GM, but $100k?
I believe he said he would self-fund the project if Kickstarter failed to fund the whole thing. All his Kickstarter promises are stated on the GM page of the Kickstarter site. I have to admit he could write up a great sounding project. On the other hand, Xsyon was doing a Kickstarter campaign around the same time. That campaign failed and yet Xsyon is a great playable sandbox that is being developed slow but steady. The difference between GM and Xsyon is like night and day in terms of development, customer service and game content. In retrospect, I shoulld have contributed to that instead. Just mho.
In the famous Markeedragon youtube-interview, Appleton claimed he had a sugardaddy who could step in with funding. He also claimed he had a server farm sitting in some datacenter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wkgmYxysEI
What a dejavu, lol. I’ve been called a troll, among other not such sweet things by a fan base from a project similar to Greed Monger, many of those fans had a hard time swallowing it up after giving the project over 60,000$ in “donations” and watching the 3 main “developers” admitting that they couldn’t even program, thus why they wanted the money (to hire people who could…).
May I ask you, why won’t you take legal action against them? As far as I know, they didn’t even sent the t-shirt that they were obligated to due to the Kickstarter, just that itself allows you to do so…
lol . really? You think he has tens of millions (which is how much it will cost to make a decent MMO) and he still needs to beg on KS for a measely $100k?
It’s not about the t-shirt or getting the money back, even so, just because he already spent it, doesn’t mean that he can’t be forced to pay it all back if it comes to that. If people have money to throw at something they don’t know jackshit about, I would assume they should have for this kind of thing, especially when there were offers of fianancial support for the people who take legal action against them in this same thread.
To me its water under the bridge. Let's just say it was the most expensive T-shirt I have ever bought. Why make it more expensive still? I chalk the whole GM fiasco up to a learning experience and my glass is half full. If one doesn't have that attitude life will not be very happy. I like mine to be
I thought people using kickstarter were most of all interested in supporting indie developers realising their plans? What debacles like Greed monger are doing is lowering the credibility of kickstarter as a platform, it turns many potential backers away from projects due to fear of money disappearing down the drain, just as happened with Greed monger.
If you really want to support indie developers the best thing here that can be done is justice, and bring credibility back to kickstarter. I think everyone agrees that the core idea of Kickstarter is a good thing, but as often is the case Greed (pun intended) destroys many good ideas.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
It is worse.
If a company you invests in becomes successful, you make money and get the upside. Even if a KS project is successful, you get no upside.
If you look at it as an investment, it is horrible .. you bear all the risk with zero upside.
^^^ This. Supporting a project on Kickstarter is a donation, not an investment. The few that I help I take out of the same pool of money that I donate to other projects or causes that I think are worthy. I just don't get a tax deduction for Kickstarter pledges
Yes .. it is definitely a donation ... to people who are unable to find investor funding to make games.
Right now he pretends to be:
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Not necessarily related to Greed Monger directly, however, still relevant news in the realm of crowdfunding and scams.
http://news.yahoo.com/federal-regulators-crowdfunding-scam-133408224--finance.html
It's is a complete shame, since both James and Jason walked away with $100,000+ dollars that they provided them. Possibly bought a house, a few game engines to play with, and a few new computers for James. Granted, the backers of Greed Monger really don't seem to care, so why should we?
Again, it is just common sense, especially about a MMORPG. With GreedMonger you had Proctor as the lead developer who had never made a game before. Nobody had ever heard of him.. a few weeks ago he gave us to a link of a game he made before KS... it was a freakin broken space invader game. So you had Appleton who was honest and said he never made a game before, and a lead developer who also couldn´t produce an resume´.. What makes any sane person think they were going to make a MMORPG as their first project? Forget what people say, look at what they have done.
The same is true of Trials of Ascension... 3 nobodies who can´t program decide to do a KS for $750,000 so they can hire real devs to make their game?... seriously? They have now failed 2 kickstarters and had a cash-shop selling virtual items BEFORE they even started making the game. Today they are ´re-launching´ their website to try again to collect money for a game that is basically a guy running around a Unity map.
People just need some common sense. Companies, BIG companies struggle to make a MMORPG despite having dozens or hundreds of employees who are trained and have experience making games. Trials of Ascension and GreedMonger were done by nobodies who had never made a game before...
This entire thing says NOTHING about kickstarter, instead it says a lot about people´s basic ability to do a tiny bit of research. Hi, Jason Appleton... you want $100,000 to make a MMORPG... show me your credits on any game.... show me the portfolio of your lead developer..... oh, you can´t... ok.. bye. Trials of Ascension.. same thing.. 3 devs, 0 games... who the hell is going to pre-order a game from them that doesn´t exist or buy ´dance moves´ or an eyepatch for their character, when the character doesn´t even exist yet.
Stop blaming KS for any of this. just use a little common sense about the most difficult game to make.
People gave money to a guy that looks like Bernie Madoff and expected a different result? Making a game called Greed Monger, you say?
Um, ok.
Being a game developer myself, and a gamer for 30 plus years I told my friends, family to stay clear from this game, I could tell there was many red flags . One I was always check the history of companys and developers. Another what they created so far. Which was not much. I develop alot more alone than they did for a game I made. I worked for big and small companies and now alone, I would never ever try to make a MMORPG.... You need a good team, and they need to be very experienced. Even then I would make a smaller scale game first to see how well you work together. Because not every one can work together. Then make money from it, and use some of it to help fund your game.
I believe these guys did not scam at first, I believe they were way over there head. Which even happen to Curt Schilling.. I think once they realized that, they tried to get them selves out and only got worse. The lead on the team, I believe was Jason which was a gamer, that was a bad sign... The Lead Programmer was someone who never made a game before, or completed one or was successful. Which is another sign..One more sign was they switched Engines from Unity, to Hero , back to Unity.. For a MMO they could of stayed with Hero, but I bet they lack the experienced and realized no tuts for Hero.... They figured the asset store and community, tuts could save them.. For an MMO that won't happen... You need the right team, experience to do so...
You need a few smaller scale games, some multiplayer games under your belt and maybe some larger scale games, then move on to a MMO and by then have a company built around those games..First!!
I see to many people try to make a MMO and fail and peopel try and make MMO's and before they even start fail as the team realizes how much work is involved, making smaller games even can take alot...
ALot of smart experienced devs are moving to Phone /Tablet games now because you can make decent money with single man teams or small teams.. They should have did this, but were not very smart....
Well the story keeps continuing as someone on the Greedmonger forums decided to go the legal route. Copying this from rpgcodex as Mcafee advises me to stay clear from the Greedmonger forums
I will be seeking legal advice on this. I suggest you guys do the same. I don't mind losing money on an actual investment, but this was an out and out scam. Jason, I hope I get to be there to hand you a XXL t-shirt that says " I should have delivered" at your court hearing. And doubt not for one minute, telling your daughter what a crook her dad is, is now high on my bucket list.
http://www.greedmonger.com/forum/showthread.php?2078-Shutting-down-Greed-Monger/page6
Excuse me? Who are you to tell us what can be discussed here? Are you a moderator? Or what forum rules are you using exactly to tell people they shouldn't discuss this? Are you Appleton, or Proctor?
I give a f***. And this a very important f***.
With all due respect, that is exactly what the scam artists want: things to die down, people to let it go, so the 2 jerks in charge of this mess walk away with the 100k in swag and cash.
As such, it is exactly what should not be done.
Let me explain. The idiots who supported this project are not getting their money. Ever. The original and second owners have no reason to. There was no law protecting the people who partook in this scam. They are working on a law... but it will not be able to assist in this case.
It's over. Get over it. It's a lesson that some people had to learn the hard way. Crying won't do anything.
You aren't doing anyone a favor by keeping this topic going. It is common knowledge that kickstaters often rip people off. Bigger and more notable people have done so. Such as Peter Molyneux. Get the fuck over it.
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