Originally posted by booniedog96 If you're not playing with permadeath you aren't playing hardcore. Everything other than permadeath IS care bear mode.
In that case, hardcore is irrelevant to gaming since 99.9999999% of the games don't even have a permadeath mode.
In those games that do not have permadeath and/or full-loot, the players considered as hard-core are just players with more tenacity / time / money over the average of the player population.
I always laugh at those saying permadeath is hardcore, since it tends to result in casual gameplay. The stakes are higher so the natural mode of play is more cautious, which results in safe, boring gameplay with stifled skill improvement. But oooh the button to enable permadeath had "HARDCORE" written on it in fiery letters so that must mean hardcore! It's a clever manipulation that makes players feel good about their casual decision.
The few times I bother using the term I'm mostly just describing players in terms of percentiles. So if I say the hardcore will enjoy something it means I feel the top 0.5% players are very likely to enjoy it, the top 2% nearly as much, and so on where the further you are from the top the less relevant the statement will be.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Well, as far as Pillars goes, I bought it, my last save is literally a room away from the final fight, but I'm just horribly underpowered at the moment. Then The Witcher 3 came out, so "Too da Loo Pillars!" I'll get back to it at some point, but I think I've got to grind some levels, it would appear, before I can go back there.
I think that hardcore refers to the dedication, vigor, intensity that someone puts into it, not their rate of achievement, really. Someone who is completely anal about his truck, cleans it regularly, would never EVER consider anything other than his current brand, has 20 hats with that brand and an equal number (minimum) of brand shirts, will argue with you on the merits of their truck over your vehicle, puts waaaaaay too much time and energy into it. That's hardcore.
I believe hardcore is defined by how much time you put into a game. It's a battle of endurance/attrition more then a battle of how intelligent you are.
I would have considered myself a softcore player when I played UO and EQ. I played a fairly large amount by today's standards. I probably clocked at least 8 hours a day at the time. I never was willing to spend large amounts of time in groups of raiding. Those were the most time consuming activities and would keep you up 12+ hours as you wouldn't want to abandon your group.
Pretty much everyone is softcore these days. Not many people would sacrifice their health for the ability to play a game many hours of a day. It's not worth the tradeoff. Many people didn't know that in the 90s, but most do at this point. Balance is keep to a healthy life.
I don't find that your completion ratio of mainstream games makes you more or less hardcore, instead the only thing told is that core gamers buy a lot of games that they never finish.
Some people like to imagine themselves hardcore because they complete certain games on the hardest mode, but I don't find you a hardcore gamer if you completed a game like Pillars of Eternity on Path of the damned, and you are not more of a gamer than the guy playing it on normal. Instead you are probably the guy that looked up the best way to create your character to nullify much of the difficulty created by putting it on Path of the damned.
That's not to say that there aren't hardcore games that truly push players to the limits but when people rather follow a guide and/or look up fights on youtube you haven't earned your hardcore gamer credentials properly.
I could have gone the hardcore way, but instead I did what most gamers do and chose the easier path.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Interesting thread. Made me do some research. Basically for me, hardcore is an intuitive description of a gamer based on their feelings about gaming in general.
Legally: Definition of a hardcore game.
US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart in Jacobellis v. Ohio, there is no intelligible definition of a casual or hardcore game, but "I know it when I see it."
Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.
Hardcore gamers tend to care less about graphics then casual gamers. While some specialize in a single genre, they typically have fairly diverse taste in games, frequently playing a wide variety of games from different genres. They'll often seek out obscure and older games, based on word of mouth or positive critical reception. Hardcore gamers put good gameplay above all else, and don't mind if a good game has poor (or even nonexistent) graphics, sound, characters and plot.
The stereotypical hardcore gamer is out of shape, and has poor hygene. They spend a lot of their disposable income on video games, consoles, or PC upgrades, and a large percentage of their free time either playing video games or discussing them, online and off. They wear either black clothing, or T-shirts with geeky pop-culture references, often to video games. Their social skills may be sub-par, and they may be less likely than others their age to have many friends, a jobs and a girlfriend/boyfriend. Some of these stereotypes are negative, and they certainly don't apply to all hardcore gamers, but there's a fair amount of truth to them.
"John plays just about every game that comes out. He says he's a hardcore gamer, but I just call him a dork."
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"They wear either black clothing, or T-shirts with geeky pop-culture references, often to video games. Their social skills may be sub-par, and they may be less likely than others their age to have many friends, a jobs and a girlfriend/boyfriend. Some of these stereotypes are negative, and they certainly don't apply to all hardcore gamers, but there's a fair amount of truth to them.
I lol'd at this part. I can't believe they actually wrote the stereotype in the definition!
"They wear either black clothing, or T-shirts with geeky pop-culture references, often to video games. Their social skills may be sub-par, and they may be less likely than others their age to have many friends, a jobs and a girlfriend/boyfriend. Some of these stereotypes are negative, and they certainly don't apply to all hardcore gamers, but there's a fair amount of truth to them.
I lol'd at this part. I can't believe they actually wrote the stereotype in the definition!
I thought it was funny also, as I sit reading this in my Star Trek Academy T-shirt. :-)
Follow the link above to read their other definitions, it's worth it. Here's how it starts;
Hardcore Gamer:
A very vocal, arrogant minority of gamers that assume that the gaming industry revolves (or should revolve) around them.
Consider their own skills, and preferences and, those of their peers, to be the only acceptable use of a recreational medium.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Completing the game isn't a good measure of "hardcore". While I don't think the souls series is hardcore, many people do. I have never completed (the main story) in any souls game and gone to ng+ even though I have over 300 hours in each. This is because I make a bunch of low level pvp characters and do invades but I never bothered to beat the game because it forces you to grind out the places you can go to pvp again and offers no real benefit. The last boss of every game is also one of the easiest for some reason.
I have never completed the main questline of morrowind, skyrim, or oblivion. I have 600 hours or more in those games.
I almost think the definition of hardcore gamer has changed over the past few years.......Now instead of being someone who achieves difficult things, I think the hardcore gamer is just basically someone who plays alot.
Yet mmorpgs love to focus primarily on end-game content that only a sliver of the population will see.
And then they wonder why they fail.
Not sure what the failing part is in reference to, but modern games are not catering to the hardcore, yet they are struggling to stay afloat and have less long term playability (and ROI) than those in the past which were less concerned with casual players.
Originally posted by Theocritus I almost think the definition of hardcore gamer has changed over the past few years.......Now instead of being someone who achieves difficult things, I think the hardcore gamer is just basically someone who plays alot.
I have to agree. I would call anyone who spends forty hours a week playing games as hardcore. But if it's part of your day job like a designer or press, it wouldn't be, or is everyone who works 40 hours a week hardcore? :-P
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Well the main problem is, what hardcore gamer would play Pillar of Eternity or Destiny? Lol.
If I were to answer your question using WoW, I'd say a lot of people are hardcore, and a lot more want to be but aren't.
Literally any name & guild on the top 100 rankings for T17, those are all very hardcore players in my opinion, especially from somebody who's been there in MoP, I know how much time you need to dedicate for that. So that's, 100 x 20.
Anybody between 100-300 are pretty hardcore players as well, and between 300-900 are people trying to get there.
Then you look at PvP, anybody over 2500 is going pretty hardcore at PvP, especially considering how bad PvP is this xpac, so that's like 1800 people just on the 3s ladder. 2k+ Are people trying to get there.
I guess it depends on your definition of what hardcore is, but what I listed above is my definition. I was raiding in MoP Tues/Wed/Thurs 7pm-1am and Sat 10pm-1am, while doing LFR & flex on a few characters each week so I had the gear if it was needed, and I was also pretty hardcore into PvP. I had over 4,500 hours played at level 90 on my main Druid alone.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
Originally posted by Theocritus I almost think the definition of hardcore gamer has changed over the past few years.......Now instead of being someone who achieves difficult things, I think the hardcore gamer is just basically someone who plays alot.
I have to agree. I would call anyone who spends forty hours a week playing games as hardcore. But if it's part of your day job like a designer or press, it wouldn't be, or is everyone who works 40 hours a week hardcore? :-P
Well, yeah, that is how you become great at anything, is playing it a lot lol. I don't think the definition has really changed. You can play anything a lot, it doesn't mean you're going to be good.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
"Hardc0re" as a self-bestowed title, or as suggested by their actual actions and game preferences?
Because the size of the two herds is vastly different.
Very good point. The number of players that actually are at the extreme ends of the spectrum is probably far smaller than the number of players that think they are there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think most of the hardcore gamers are located in china or Korea. well it depends on you on what does "hardcore" means to you. Is it playing multiple games 24/7 or having less time on playing games but they have its mastery? still depends.
Probably no such thing as a "hardcore player", or such a term is misleading when mixing people that play too much all the time together with the people that play too much in one period of time.
Originally posted by Gamer54321 Probably no such thing as a "hardcore player", or such a term is misleading when mixing people that play too much all the time together with the people that play too much in one period of time.
They wouldn't both be hardcore then. A player who once played hardcore is no longer hardcore.
Comments
A "Hardcore Gamer" is a person that games all day. Doesn't matter the game. Doesn't matter the genre. They are gamers through to their soul.
This is yet another attempt to change the reality of a term. It has always meant the same thing...since games were invented.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
In those games that do not have permadeath and/or full-loot, the players considered as hard-core are just players with more tenacity / time / money over the average of the player population.
Hardcore is pretty poorly defined.
I always laugh at those saying permadeath is hardcore, since it tends to result in casual gameplay. The stakes are higher so the natural mode of play is more cautious, which results in safe, boring gameplay with stifled skill improvement. But oooh the button to enable permadeath had "HARDCORE" written on it in fiery letters so that must mean hardcore! It's a clever manipulation that makes players feel good about their casual decision.
The few times I bother using the term I'm mostly just describing players in terms of percentiles. So if I say the hardcore will enjoy something it means I feel the top 0.5% players are very likely to enjoy it, the top 2% nearly as much, and so on where the further you are from the top the less relevant the statement will be.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Well, as far as Pillars goes, I bought it, my last save is literally a room away from the final fight, but I'm just horribly underpowered at the moment. Then The Witcher 3 came out, so "Too da Loo Pillars!" I'll get back to it at some point, but I think I've got to grind some levels, it would appear, before I can go back there.
I think that hardcore refers to the dedication, vigor, intensity that someone puts into it, not their rate of achievement, really. Someone who is completely anal about his truck, cleans it regularly, would never EVER consider anything other than his current brand, has 20 hats with that brand and an equal number (minimum) of brand shirts, will argue with you on the merits of their truck over your vehicle, puts waaaaaay too much time and energy into it. That's hardcore.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I believe hardcore is defined by how much time you put into a game. It's a battle of endurance/attrition more then a battle of how intelligent you are.
I would have considered myself a softcore player when I played UO and EQ. I played a fairly large amount by today's standards. I probably clocked at least 8 hours a day at the time. I never was willing to spend large amounts of time in groups of raiding. Those were the most time consuming activities and would keep you up 12+ hours as you wouldn't want to abandon your group.
Pretty much everyone is softcore these days. Not many people would sacrifice their health for the ability to play a game many hours of a day. It's not worth the tradeoff. Many people didn't know that in the 90s, but most do at this point. Balance is keep to a healthy life.
I don't find that your completion ratio of mainstream games makes you more or less hardcore, instead the only thing told is that core gamers buy a lot of games that they never finish.
Some people like to imagine themselves hardcore because they complete certain games on the hardest mode, but I don't find you a hardcore gamer if you completed a game like Pillars of Eternity on Path of the damned, and you are not more of a gamer than the guy playing it on normal. Instead you are probably the guy that looked up the best way to create your character to nullify much of the difficulty created by putting it on Path of the damned.
That's not to say that there aren't hardcore games that truly push players to the limits but when people rather follow a guide and/or look up fights on youtube you haven't earned your hardcore gamer credentials properly.
I could have gone the hardcore way, but instead I did what most gamers do and chose the easier path.
Interesting thread. Made me do some research. Basically for me, hardcore is an intuitive description of a gamer based on their feelings about gaming in general.
Legally: Definition of a hardcore game.
US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart in Jacobellis v. Ohio, there is no intelligible definition of a casual or hardcore game, but "I know it when I see it."
Urban Dictionary:
Hardcore gamers tend to care less about graphics then casual gamers. While some specialize in a single genre, they typically have fairly diverse taste in games, frequently playing a wide variety of games from different genres. They'll often seek out obscure and older games, based on word of mouth or positive critical reception. Hardcore gamers put good gameplay above all else, and don't mind if a good game has poor (or even nonexistent) graphics, sound, characters and plot.
The stereotypical hardcore gamer is out of shape, and has poor hygene. They spend a lot of their disposable income on video games, consoles, or PC upgrades, and a large percentage of their free time either playing video games or discussing them, online and off. They wear either black clothing, or T-shirts with geeky pop-culture references, often to video games. Their social skills may be sub-par, and they may be less likely than others their age to have many friends, a jobs and a girlfriend/boyfriend. Some of these stereotypes are negative, and they certainly don't apply to all hardcore gamers, but there's a fair amount of truth to them.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I lol'd at this part. I can't believe they actually wrote the stereotype in the definition!
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
Hardcore Gamers
I thought it was funny also, as I sit reading this in my Star Trek Academy T-shirt. :-)
Follow the link above to read their other definitions, it's worth it. Here's how it starts;
Hardcore Gamer:
A very vocal, arrogant minority of gamers that assume that the gaming industry revolves (or should revolve) around them.
Consider their own skills, and preferences and, those of their peers, to be the only acceptable use of a recreational medium.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Yet mmorpgs love to focus primarily on end-game content that only a sliver of the population will see.
And then they wonder why they fail.
Completing the game isn't a good measure of "hardcore". While I don't think the souls series is hardcore, many people do. I have never completed (the main story) in any souls game and gone to ng+ even though I have over 300 hours in each. This is because I make a bunch of low level pvp characters and do invades but I never bothered to beat the game because it forces you to grind out the places you can go to pvp again and offers no real benefit. The last boss of every game is also one of the easiest for some reason.
I have never completed the main questline of morrowind, skyrim, or oblivion. I have 600 hours or more in those games.
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
Not sure what the failing part is in reference to, but modern games are not catering to the hardcore, yet they are struggling to stay afloat and have less long term playability (and ROI) than those in the past which were less concerned with casual players.
I have to agree. I would call anyone who spends forty hours a week playing games as hardcore. But if it's part of your day job like a designer or press, it wouldn't be, or is everyone who works 40 hours a week hardcore? :-P
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Well the main problem is, what hardcore gamer would play Pillar of Eternity or Destiny? Lol.
If I were to answer your question using WoW, I'd say a lot of people are hardcore, and a lot more want to be but aren't.
Literally any name & guild on the top 100 rankings for T17, those are all very hardcore players in my opinion, especially from somebody who's been there in MoP, I know how much time you need to dedicate for that. So that's, 100 x 20.
Anybody between 100-300 are pretty hardcore players as well, and between 300-900 are people trying to get there.
Then you look at PvP, anybody over 2500 is going pretty hardcore at PvP, especially considering how bad PvP is this xpac, so that's like 1800 people just on the 3s ladder. 2k+ Are people trying to get there.
I guess it depends on your definition of what hardcore is, but what I listed above is my definition. I was raiding in MoP Tues/Wed/Thurs 7pm-1am and Sat 10pm-1am, while doing LFR & flex on a few characters each week so I had the gear if it was needed, and I was also pretty hardcore into PvP. I had over 4,500 hours played at level 90 on my main Druid alone.
Well, yeah, that is how you become great at anything, is playing it a lot lol. I don't think the definition has really changed. You can play anything a lot, it doesn't mean you're going to be good.
"Hardc0re" as a self-bestowed title, or as suggested by their actual actions and game preferences?
Because the size of the two herds is vastly different.Very good point. The number of players that actually are at the extreme ends of the spectrum is probably far smaller than the number of players that think they are there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
You shouldn't count quiters. And majority of those are probably quiters( people play a few days and quit )
They wouldn't both be hardcore then. A player who once played hardcore is no longer hardcore.