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what went wrong with Wildstar?

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  • FangrimFangrim Member UncommonPosts: 616

    People who say this monstrosity is what so called 'old school' gamers wanted are so far off the mark they should never be allowed to own a toy gun.Cartoon graphics and childish DOUBLE KILL,TRIPLE KILL! noises are not what they want.And why swoop around on a hover board only to jump off and attack mobs with a broken sword?...It's just terrible! It most likely failed because it was too hard for the casuals and too dumb for the rest.

    Edit: In the games defence,I never tried the game but all I had to see were the graphics and combat on you-tube to know its a no way never for me game.


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  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,255

    Its pretty hilarious that people actually think its because its a "WoW clone" or nonsense similar to that.


    Wildstar failed to retain and grow because it had a mountain of performance problems, bugs, imbalances and quality of life issues.

    Pretty much every aspect of the entire game suffered from more than 1 of these issues. Then Carbine made things even worse by putting out new content that broke more things than they fixed instead of fixing what was already broke.


    Even the people that did like WS were leaving. The people that didnt care if WS was a "WoW clone" or a themepark.


    But, then, how many people saying "its because its a themepark and themeparks suck" in this topic played Wildstar?


  • VolenibbletsVolenibblets Member UncommonPosts: 232
    It was at least five years too late and it failed to distinguish itself sufficiently from its predecessors. A polished dinner table looses it's sheen in no time and then its just a dinner table like every other one. The format had/has been trodden into the ground and anyone investing good money into developing any game even remotely along similar lines is a damn fool. The audience has more than made this clear.
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726

    So, I answered this same question a few months back. I really hate to copy/paste things, but I'm going to. However, most of the issues in what I'm about to post have been fixed since then. Wildstar really is a great game, but this is what happened in the beginning.

    Having played Wildstar from launch until finishing GA 6/6 with my guild ... Here's my take on the game.

    The combat and gameplay is wonderfully done. The leveling content does little to take advantage of those systems, so it can be a very boring process unfortunately. Housing was very robust and fun, very well done. Content was very little in terms of what happened post-release, and the quality of patches was very poor. The constant push-back of content "Drops" and promise of fixing everything really set the game back.

    After reaching 50, there was little a "casual" player could do besides dailies (for which there was no real reward, unless you were also clearing raid content, which meant you didn't need the rewards anyways). This lead to the majority of casuals being bored as well at end game.

    End game was the main focus, however, it was poorly designed. A high time wall was originally required to begin raiding, and it was something very few could complete without the help of people who knew the "tricks" to completing the time trials of getting Gold/Silver. This led to few people/guilds actually able to participate in 20-man content. "Casual" raiders in WS would have easily been considered semi-hardcore raiders in WoW for the time-investment and skill it took. Most people who came to WS expecting to raid left very rapidly.

    I saw the fall of many (MANY) guilds, very rapidly once they reached the point where raiding was the goal. I myself went through about 6 guilds before finding one that was actually able to complete the content, had the man power to sustain, and wasn't a complete douche about it. The rest? Within a week or two they all crumbled. Disbanded, completely. Even once a few guilds reached the point of being able to enter 20-man raiding, the roster boss quickly caught up to them. Many merged, only to still disband after failing to have the numbers.

    It also suffered from terrible itemization and RNG. Crafted gear was near BiS until you got an incredibly perfect roll on slots from very specific GA gear drops. Otherwise, it was a break-even at best. This lead to the feeling of lots of stick but no carrot at the end. Having cleared GA and gotten all the drops for my class (SS Healer), I probably got about 15 drops of loot. Only about 4 of which were actual, quantifiable upgrades from what I had crafted or gotten from dungeons. I can't say enough about how terrible itemization was - It reminded me of TBC in WoW. -Crit taken on healer gear? +Focus recovery on tank gear? None of it really made much sense.

    GA was a terribly bug-ridden raid. Some bosses caused complete crashes for over 75% of the raid group, randomly, and without known cause. Some bosses would become invulnerable, causing you to have to reset the entire instance of trash and re-clear to that boss. Some of the bosses had total cheese mechanics, which, to my knowledge, still haven't been fixed. The encounters were somewhat well-created and required pretty precise execution -  It WAS fun, when it worked properly. However, even "on farm", the encounter would still cause multiple raid wipes due to bugs. This made it tedious and really annoying to keep a roster filled with 25+ people.

    DS was even worse - However, I'd given up on raiding just before my guild started in on DS. However, I see now that they're abandoning 40 man content, which is likely the best idea. It will give more for the guilds (few in number) who are able to do 20 man content but not 40 man content something to do. It will probably take far too long for this content to roll around, though. They're constant lack of updates coupled with bug-ridden releases will make sure of this.

    I'm not even referring to simple bugs - I mean completely game-breaking bugs. Not being able to switch hot bars, all of your gear randomly disappearing, purchases from AH changing stats once you buy them, exploits (numerous), class skills being broken (though unchanged in notes), AMPs not working, etc. So many things that would make it incredibly annoying to play the game, across the board. They delayed Drop 3 so much because they wanted it to be bug free as possible, and even then it still lead to multiple game breaking bugs and exploits being opened.

    Wildstar has the capability to be an amazing game - the combat alone made it hard for me to return to other games without feeling bored. However, their target audience was small, and they failed to deliver even to them. Given time to recover and with the advent of F2P, I'm sure it will see more success.

    TL;DR - Too much stick, not enough carrot. All the way through. End game was tough to reach, raiding was hard to reach, and none of it was particularly rewarding. Great potential, poor execution.

  • AlverantAlverant Member RarePosts: 1,131

    The combat got me. I was mashing the same buttons like crazy and there were always too many nearby enemies that accidentally got caught up in your fight. Too many times I wanted to kill a boss and a bunch of other baddies respawned and got involved.

     

    It's too bad, there was so much to love about the game; the art, the setting, the humor, the lore it had so much potential but if they had a way to instance the combat I would have enjoyed it much more. (Those are my preference, yours may vary.)

  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035

    WildStar went off my radar after I saw the first video of combat.

     

    Emphasis on raiding didn't help.  I don't raid.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • corvascorvas Member UncommonPosts: 142
    Originally posted by murilor

    What went wrong with all mmorpgs in these days ? I was talking with my cousin about this, honestly people are still looking for a game like Ultima Online (for old school gamers). my first mmorpg was Ultima Online, and i remember the first time that i played World of Warcraft, was awsome of course, but i miss something, the freedom. People are looking for this freedom again, because this games like Archeage or others sandbox are so hyped. But you know ? I wanna tame a dragon again ! i wanna play harp or guitar in the city, i wanna find places to tame rare mounts, pets, i wanna tame a chicken to make them fight and gamble on this. Why ? Because who makes a mmorpg fun it's the players. People wanna play mmorpgs for fun, not to be stress.

    Sorry my english.

     

    Yep, same here, my first mmo was also UO, and still looking for the same in mmo`s and that is freedom to do whatever you want without boundries (at least not so much ofc), like building a plot to design your own house anywhere you like, combining different skills like for example Magic casting, heavy armor and a 2H sword with a bit of animal taming and ofc better grafix then UO :P

     

    But Wildstar is oke, but not good enough for a subscription imo, played it when it came out and didnt played it after the first month, but i will come back when its F2P

  • NightHaveNNightHaveN Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    I always believed WS was misunderstood, thanks to different factors. The F2P tied with a Steam launch will improve advertisement of the game. What I'm worried is the F2P model. Is so flexible that will make most players go for the free candy.
  • umcorianumcorian Member UncommonPosts: 519

    I got in on a free invite trial, played the game and, by level 8, I hadn't had a bit of fun across 3-4 different classes. 

    That's really all I got. 

  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,282

    My thoughts as a beta player and initial box purchaser, but I only lasted about 45 days.

    Combat was very clunky as there was far too much ground targeting, and there were problems with skills not firing during the initial release phase that I played. There was also a ton of chaos on the screen nearly all the time, it actually made extended play of the game very tiring. Little too much visual and audio stimulation. Combat animations were also very clunky, which is a pet peeve of mine.

    Furthermore, focus on raiding for end game was a tremendous mistake, and one that should not have been made to be frank. There was enough data available from WoW alone to show what type of a raiding model works best with a mmo. 40 man raids didn't really work well in the largest western mmo of all time, I wonder why carbine felt like it would work in their game.

    The game also should have been B2P with a limited cash shop. CREDD could have been like Gems for GW2 and used to purchase from the cash shop. Now they are making an attempt at freemium, which is another mistake.

    Sadly, there were some good elements to the game. There was a lot of comedy to break things up. There was some neat tucked away areas for explorers to discover. With some tweaking and less use of ground targeting, combat could've been more enjoyable. Some of the dungeons were pretty fun.

     

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    In my case Wildstar got a bad case of the "release datesies" They got camped by ESO and, basically, lost out. They released their "Release Window" in August 2013 as Sprint 2014. ESO announced in December 2013 that they would be releasing April 2014. I'm pretty sure that's a big, massive, eff you from ESO.

     

    I'll definitely play and throw money at Wildstar. I prefer the forgiving model as I have kids who I'm sure will play it and who I will play with, but with a crazy model there's no way I can maintain 4 accounts. 

    Crazkanuk

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    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,907
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    Honestly I think it was a well executed polished game and I'm surprised it failed so hard.

    The reason I quit was combat design. But with the lack of MMORP games today, I'll gladly play Wildstar if it had a healthy pool of players.

    Same.  I like the game but the drought of players made me leave.  Honestly, I think most people are just too scared to leave WoW behind and there were just too many similarities between the two.   I don't understand the  "it's not worth a sub" argument when so many that voiced that are perfectly fine in keeping their idle WoW account subbed to.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,377
    Key decision makers / executives chose to ignore the views of people they hoped would buy and play the game.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,021
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    What went wrong with Wildstar in your opinion?

    Since you are specifically asking for our opinions i'll give mine.

    What went wrong?

    1 - They made the leveling up process revolve around the same boring generic questing system that should have died years ago. THis can be overlooked if the rest of the game is fun.... its not, due to the following.

     

    2 - They hyped the combat to no end but delivered the worst combat you can possibly have in a game. Why do i have to play like im aiming down the sight in call of duty? Add a reticle or add a tab target. GW2 has a nice hybrid combat where i dont have to hold the right click 24/7 and still play normally. And Why even have dodge if the telegraph is what hits you instead of the actual attack. In other games you can stay inside the telegraph and if you dodge the attack you dont get hit. In WS you have to get out of the telegraph or you get hit even if the weapon didnt touch you. Lame.

     

    3 - They made classes ridiculously boring and limited. Why cant i dump that greatsword and pick up a mace and a shield? or dual axes? and so on and so forth. Classes are unnecessarily restricted to a single weapon and to add insult  to injury, the skill pattern is lame and promotes button spamming (the WoW rogue combo/finisher mechanic). Why have that on every class? lame...

     

    There you have MY OPINION and the reason i cant play that game anymore. Once it goes F2P i will try the game again specifically using Xpadder. If the combat feels better with a gamepad i might give the game another a second chance. If i manage to make that terrible combat somewhat enjoyable i can overlook the boring questing.

     

    Other than those three points, i like everything else in the game. And its a shame that they have to design point 2 and 3 in that poor way. 2 and 3 are the major deal breakers for me.

     

    EDIT: no, im not demanding any changes. That was their design decision even if i strongly disagree with it. Maybe they consider is too late for that. Like i said, if i manage to make Xpadder a workaround then it should be fine if only as a short term game.





  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,112

    imo,

    1. Main story was only interesting towards the end, making the jounrey more about quest and quest mechanics - so there is a lot of side questing

    2. Quest mechanics were not dynamic enough as advertised - so a let down from the hype. While there was an attempt to have different quest mechanics - the important ones such as the path system restricted players from certain content meanwhile paths such as soldiering did not feel epic enough but was not bad imo - but in the end for solo player chosing a path means they miss out on other options.

    3. Pvp imbalance - range being superior. the melee class had to make sure they were close enough to do dmg since there is no tab targeting.

    4. End game prerequisite grind to begin end game.

    5. pvp content was nothing special 

    6. I lost interest before trying war plots - which is partly the problem im attributing to end game prerequisite grind, but that i did not have access to content and it would become a grind of its own to begin

    7. the classes were pigeon holed - i tried a stalker which apparently as a dps class was weak, and was OP'ed at the time as a tank and dmg mitgator. I never plan on playing a class for a niche role and even so if it was intended to be pigeon holed ignoring the actual possibility for customization. However, i did figure out a way to make a decent dmg dealer stalker with clones and popping clones and going invis and wearing down my target. But it did not feel great doing that and that means for large scale battles i cant really participate since im doing very little dmg and once im caught/cant hide im at a disadvantage even if i attacked since the design for the stalker as dmg was to be use powerful cd's and then hide and then pop them again, which means against a healer would be useless.

    I would say they did a pretty good job on creating an environment, and different quest mechanics but they never expanded beyond a certain degree such as paths for example - but overall the actual different quest mechanics was well done.  Raids were very well done, imo, but thats not why i play mmos. Also housing was very well done.

    overall, they did fall short on important things like pvp maps among the previously mentioned issues which affects the want to alt if the story only becomes interesting towards the end, is a long enough grind to the fun part, the classes are not that great while being pigeon holed etc etc

    I wish they got the imporant things done well, and I would be playing an MMO atm, instead of none.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • EcocesEcoces Member UncommonPosts: 879

    to focused on the "hardcore" aspect of the game kinda left everyone else who didn't want to be "hardcore" out. whether MMORPG.com wants to believe it or not the majority has no interest in being the best of the best in anything. they just want to log in, have fun and progress their characters a bit.

     

    like someone else said they focused on the 1% instead of the 99%

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Member Posts: 423
    The arrival of generation entitled is what went wrong. 
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,839
    Originally posted by Ecoces

    to focused on the "hardcore" aspect of the game kinda left everyone else who didn't want to be "hardcore" out. whether MMORPG.com wants to believe it or not the majority has no interest in being the best of the best in anything. they just want to log in, have fun and progress their characters a bit.

     

    like someone else said they focused on the 1% instead of the 99%

    That was my first thought.  They focused on the hardcore players which are not how the majority of players want to play.  For me it felt more like something that could have been added to WoW as an expansion rather then a game in and of itself.  If a game reminds me of WoW, I might as well just play WoW as they've been doing it longer and better imo.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • zekeofevzekeofev Member UncommonPosts: 240

    Action based combat in MMOs is not something I want. At all.

     

    Its sad too, I really liked the art style and some of the class mechanics as well as the lore. However, I knew I would never like the game because of the combat.

     

    There is many of the opposite crowd of me that hated Wildstar's art style but really like action combat.

     

    The combination of WoW Clone, art style, action combat, lore focus, 40 man raids is hard....many players just are completely against some of these traits that they would never want to try the game.

  • WightyWighty Member UncommonPosts: 699

    What went wrong was these guys were brilliant marketeers creating massive hype. I remember there were beta keys selling for upwards of $100+ on some sites.

    People were frothing at the mouth to get a taste of this because again, the marketing campaign was brilliant, unfortunately the dev-speaks, pre launch videos and commentary, painted are far better picture than what the game actually was.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs

     

    Also 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-3-1-1-1-5-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-4-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-11111111111111..................

     

     

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,067

    . NC Soft Title for one

    . The game itself characters felt too cartoon

    . No True Sandbox game-play

    Over-All did the beta/trial of the game and couldn't stand to play it if I am going to waste my time playing Wild Star, then League OF Legends, HOTS, or Smite are better, and there is no leveling, or grind.

  • reeereeereeereee Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by Ecoces

    to focused on the "hardcore" aspect of the game kinda left everyone else who didn't want to be "hardcore" out. whether MMORPG.com wants to believe it or not the majority has no interest in being the best of the best in anything. they just want to log in, have fun and progress their characters a bit.

     

    like someone else said they focused on the 1% instead of the 99%

    It would be closer to 30% in 2015, the days of vanilla WoW where only a tiny fraction of the population participated in raids are long gone.

     

    The problem is they spent all their endgame resources designing for hardcore and spent the rest of the game to try and drive off those players. 

     

    When the casual players that would actually want an ultra-cartoony art style and console combat ran into the buzz-saw of hardcore content Wildstar had prepared for a dramatically different set of players it's hardly surprising that subscription rates cratered and now Carbine is scrambling to turn out more casual content for those that remain.

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,125
    I left because although I liked the game a great deal and enjoyed the dialogue and quests I was unable to heal and avoid the telegraphs well in the dungeon content leading to an unsatisfactory result for both myself and the group relying on me.

  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383

    combat system was awful.

    It was the worst of rotation based combat combined with the tediousness of actiony combat due to excessive movement required with immersion wrecking crap all over the ground

  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,867
    I think it was the run of the mill quests and quest hubs along with the combat that forces you to look at the ground instead of your character and the mobs you are fighting.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

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