Because people are goal oriented, and accomplishing a goal faster (completing a dungeon) is better.
Older games were much slower paced and for example in EQ1 there was no "completing" a dungeon - people camped spawns for loot.
So why so much rushing - efficiency - it's what humans do.
Well said and to the point as usual.
I'd go a bit further and actually lay the blame of MMOs switching to a much faster goal oriented mindset directly at the feet of these first long and agonizing "old school" MMOs. The genera didn't shift because a new type of player joined the ranks. Those new players turned up because game makers and old school veterans wanted and created a type of game to play where it didn't take weeks to months of boring repetitive tasks to accomplish simple goals.
Yeah, people have tried to rush and be efficient from the very first mmos. It's just that the wheels turned slower back then. Leveling and farming in Lineage was about efficiency. It's human nature to try and push the envelope no matter what.
I can understand it. It could take three months to level up from 49 to 50 in Lineage. A couple deaths could set you back weeks. I think that really got to people after a while. I know it got to me. In the end I think there is a balance between extremely long grindy progression and the skyrocket to cap where it ends up being a treadmill grind. No matter what some people will still push it and go as fast as possible.
Thats why I think there should be a balance for it, instead of to fast or to slow make it more moderate but rewarding like a normal rpg.
because in a world where everybody wins, winning the fastest is the only win possible.
see what I did there?
No. Please explain.
He means that as MMO's shifted to a "please everyone" model where everyone has a relatively easy path to "winning" (in MMO terms, "being max level and having the best stuff") a new measuring stick has been made for who is winning - and it's those who do things first/faster.
Versus the older model in which not everyone made it to level cap, and beyond that engaging in the highest content was a bit more rare and took more time. So people had their own milestones because not everything was feasible for all people.
and then to top it all off we have developers who are developing to force people to wait longer and longer periods of time for progression which absolutely never works. For example, we have STO and NWO that basically have you do a daily and then log out for 20 hours before getting what you need to progress.
I think one person mentioned it but no one picked it up. People are rushing to get to that so-called "end game". They want to start PvPing or raiding in that end game and that is all they really care about. Story and lore and enjoying how that unfolds is just not what they want. Frankly, I do not understand why they even play MMO's. Why not just play a FPS or MOBA instead.
Because we're becoming more stupid, thanks to being over-reliant on technology.
Congrats. The human race (on average) now has an 8 second attention span, which is less than the attention span of the average goldfish. This is reflected in gaming (as in other modes of entertainment and work/lifestyle).
There's where the rush is coming from. Most kids can't pay attention to squat these days.
I think you meant proverbial goldfish rather than average goldfish. How would you measure attention span in goldfish anyway? (BTW it has been proven that goldfish can remember stuff for more than three months).
Thats a lie, maybe it was tedious to you but when you have more immersive rpgs like in first person view and add in lots of details it isnt tedious especially when your getting good and fun rewards as you level and new abilities as you learn your class there is nothing tedious about it. If anything its more tedious to constantly kill things with nothing to do in between with mundane quests of to fetch this and kill that. Grouping well real grouping helps it become far less tedious as well.
You need to learn what lies are. This is the lead designer of CoH specifically stating in his definition of "timesink" that the purpose of timesinks is to keep players subscribed longer. It's not like we even needed a lead designer of a MMORPG to say that to draw the obvious correlation between timesinks becoming common + only in MMORPGs + which are the only games that sold time (subscriptions) to players.
So no, it's not a lie. Lies are a deliberate attempt to mislead. My posts are a deliberate attempt to educate you on the truth of the matter. They're rooted in evidence (the MMORPG flat out saying they're a money-grab) and logic (time-selling games consistently being timesink-heavy.)
Surely you must realize the difference in tedium between "kill these monsters forever" and "Kill these monsters; fetch this item; kill this boss; return to town; bomb these targets; play plants vs. zombies; kill these monsters; go to the next town..." Quests are objectively more varied, and variety is a major way of preventing things from becoming tedious in a game.
Even if you personally prefer those older games, surely you recognize that for most gamers the latter set of activities would be considered far less tedious.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Thats a lie, maybe it was tedious to you but when you have more immersive rpgs like in first person view and add in lots of details it isnt tedious especially when your getting good and fun rewards as you level and new abilities as you learn your class there is nothing tedious about it. If anything its more tedious to constantly kill things with nothing to do in between with mundane quests of to fetch this and kill that. Grouping well real grouping helps it become far less tedious as well.
You need to learn what lies are. This is the lead designer of CoH specifically stating in his definition of "timesink" that the purpose of timesinks is to keep players subscribed longer. It's not like we even needed a lead designer of a MMORPG to say that to draw the obvious correlation between timesinks becoming common + only in MMORPGs + which are the only games that sold time (subscriptions) to players.
So no, it's not a lie. Lies are a deliberate attempt to mislead. My posts are a deliberate attempt to educate you on the truth of the matter. They're rooted in evidence (the MMORPG flat out saying they're a money-grab) and logic (time-selling games consistently being timesink-heavy.)
Surely you must realize the difference in tedium between "kill these monsters forever" and "Kill these monsters; fetch this item; kill this boss; return to town; bomb these targets; play plants vs. zombies; kill these monsters; go to the next town..." Quests are objectively more varied, and variety is a major way of preventing things from becoming tedious in a game.
Even if you personally prefer those older games, surely you recognize that for most gamers the latter set of activities would be considered far less tedious.
Wow amazing one dev speaks for all mmorpgs I suppose which by the way isnt that different then what mmorpgs do today with cash shops, you are lying because your speaking for more then just one older mmorpg. And coh didnt take that long lol, id rather have a fun leveling experience then a shallow rushing experience with lame grouping mechanics.
Thats a lie, maybe it was tedious to you but when you have more immersive rpgs like in first person view and add in lots of details it isnt tedious especially when your getting good and fun rewards as you level and new abilities as you learn your class there is nothing tedious about it. If anything its more tedious to constantly kill things with nothing to do in between with mundane quests of to fetch this and kill that. Grouping well real grouping helps it become far less tedious as well.
You need to learn what lies are. This is the lead designer of CoH specifically stating in his definition of "timesink" that the purpose of timesinks is to keep players subscribed longer. It's not like we even needed a lead designer of a MMORPG to say that to draw the obvious correlation between timesinks becoming common + only in MMORPGs + which are the only games that sold time (subscriptions) to players.
So no, it's not a lie. Lies are a deliberate attempt to mislead. My posts are a deliberate attempt to educate you on the truth of the matter. They're rooted in evidence (the MMORPG flat out saying they're a money-grab) and logic (time-selling games consistently being timesink-heavy.)
Surely you must realize the difference in tedium between "kill these monsters forever" and "Kill these monsters; fetch this item; kill this boss; return to town; bomb these targets; play plants vs. zombies; kill these monsters; go to the next town..." Quests are objectively more varied, and variety is a major way of preventing things from becoming tedious in a game.
Even if you personally prefer those older games, surely you recognize that for most gamers the latter set of activities would be considered far less tedious.
Wow amazing one dev speaks for all mmorpgs I suppose which by the way isnt that different then what mmorpgs do today with cash shops, you are lying because your speaking for more then just one older mmorpg. And coh didnt take that long lol, id rather have a fun leveling experience then a shallow rushing experience with lame grouping mechanics.
Wait a minute in another thread you post how a WoW dev said something that when twisted around made it sound like it supported your QQing. But now when someone post about another dev saying something you dont like or agree with because it does not suit your QQing, you make a stupid remark like "wow amazing one dev speaks for all mmorpgs" ? I believe there is a word for that...I will let you GOOGLE it since thats where you get all your info.
Its like this nowadays. Rush through a dungeon in like 10-15 minutes to farm tomes for gear. Rush through storyline to get to the point of the next expantion pack coming out so you'll be at current stuff. Rush through leveling so you can get to the good stuff.
Seriously so many peaple these days wanna hurry and get stuff done quickly.
Didn't mmo's used to be more laid back. Were peaple took there time and enjoyed the journey instead of hurrying to finish stuff all the time like it is now.
Its like when i enter a dungeon and end up being in a speed run, when i prefer going a slower pace. That's just the way i am, but its impossible to bypass the rushers these days.
Turn the question around: why do you want to do things slowly?
A good game involves gameplay, decisions, and mastery. Becoming more fast, skilled, and efficient at accomplishing the goals you set out to do is part of that.
Calling older MMORPGs "laid back" is extremely kind of you. What they really were was excessively tedious in order to sell more time to players (more subscriptions.)
If you want to do things slowly you can still do it on your own time while soloing. You just can't expect other people to want to be less efficient with their time just because you prefer it that way.
Because time investment is proportional to the appreciation of the reward. I liked the slow pace of EQ because it gave me downtime to socialize. Time to stop and smell the roses, time to think and plan, it gave the world distance with long travel times and made spells like Spirit of the Wolf very meaningful along with Druid and Wizard Teleports.
Mainly because of time relating to appreciation of the reward. It took me 13 Phinnys to get my wizard epic but I then proceeded to port to every wizard spire and click the thing with glee, heck even when I log in now it has sentimental value. Nothing in newer games has helped me form the bonds that I had with people in Everquest. It's all fast paced dungeon run in 15 mins achievement every 2 minutes max level in a week if that.
I like a MMORPG that requires time investment. I enjoy taking things at a slow pace, it's relaxing. Newer MMORPGs are so fast paced it's over almost as soon as it starts. I don't have any time to get invested or socialize.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Because time investment is proportional to the appreciation of the reward.
I certainly hope not. I never got 100x the enjoyment if I spend 100 hours on a game instead of one. And i don't play games for the "reward" .. i play it for fun.
And it isn't very fun if nothing is happening .. at least to me.
Wow amazing one dev speaks for all mmorpgs I suppose which by the way isnt that different then what mmorpgs do today with cash shops, you are lying because your speaking for more then just one older mmorpg. And coh didnt take that long lol, id rather have a fun leveling experience then a shallow rushing experience with lame grouping mechanics.
Right, several F2P MMORPGs do bloat their timesinks to sell XP potions. Meanwhile games like ESO, GW2, and WOW definitely aren't that way, and are some of the better-performing MMORPGs.
Again, drop this "lie" nonsense. It's sensationalist garbage, and the thing you claim I'm lying about is actually the truth.
Nearly all early MMORPGs were undeniably and heavily characterized by timesinks.
Many gamers made forum posts criticizing this known trait of them.
Timesinks were a big part of all the ~10 pre-WOW MMORPGs I played. So yes, it was more than just one older MMORPG. It was basically all of them (though from what I've heard, it's possible UO was the solitary exception.)
So not only is it not a deliberate attempt to mislead you (a lie), it's the truth.
We don't need all devs to chime in to know that timesinks are designed to sell subscriptions. We need only our brains and the visible evidence that timesinks didn't heavily characterize games until they started charging for time. It happened almost simultaneously (again, except UO.) The fact that a developer backs up this logic and evidence is just further evidence of what I'm saying.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Because time investment is proportional to the appreciation of the reward. I liked the slow pace of EQ because it gave me downtime to socialize. Time to stop and smell the roses, time to think and plan, it gave the world distance with long travel times and made spells like Spirit of the Wolf very meaningful along with Druid and Wizard Teleports.
Mainly because of time relating to appreciation of the reward. It took me 13 Phinnys to get my wizard epic but I then proceeded to port to every wizard spire and click the thing with glee, heck even when I log in now it has sentimental value. Nothing in newer games has helped me form the bonds that I had with people in Everquest. It's all fast paced dungeon run in 15 mins achievement every 2 minutes max level in a week if that.
I like a MMORPG that requires time investment. I enjoy taking things at a slow pace, it's relaxing. Newer MMORPGs are so fast paced it's over almost as soon as it starts. I don't have any time to get invested or socialize.
You act as though time isn't being invested. You act as though more than 0.5% of players are reaching the point where no more time invested will be rewarded. But the truth is that fewer than 0.5% of players are going to end up with best-in-slot-everything, so that's at least 99.5% of players who still have time left to invest and rewards left to gain (rewards which can only be reached through monumental time investment.)
What post-2010 MMORPGs have you achieved best-in-slot-everything? None? Well then your appreciation for the rewards you got in those games obviously isn't going to be much if you're not actually putting the same effort and time into the games...
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I remember BSing around in a Cantina in star wars galaxies to restore stats to players by being a musician. I remember waiting on spawns in Asheron's Call and chilling in the trading hub. I miss barter economies that I needed to communicate with other players in person rather than interface with a auction house market system.
Game systems incentives accomplishments only and they have taken out all the downtime because people did not like downtime. Now, players do not even have time to type or they are losing efficiency.
Part of this is the complaints of a portion of the player base and how the developers of newer games decided to change their game.
In vanilla WoW it took a good 30-40 seconds to recharge your health bar by using food and waiting a bit which even allowed some dungeon chatter in a group setting as you had to wait for mana and health. Now it fills up in 4 seconds. People really wonder why no one talks anymore?
Most of the activities besides combat was removed or reduced to side tasks so that they are completely optional so that the combat never has to stop....and then people wonder why we have players that are content locust players that don't talk?
I feel like the main reason people rush is because games now focus more on endgame than anything else. If you're not at cap you're not having much fun. Get to cap as quickly as possible so you can experience the other 70% of the game!
Earlier games spread their content out so you had more to do while leveling...which made sense seeing how long it would take you to level in older MMORPGs. It's not justifiable in todays MMOs seeing how you can generally go from level 1 to cap in a few days to a couple of weeks. I never used to hit cap because of how much of a slog it was, despite playing all the time. Now I blink twice and miss the levels inbetween start and cap.
Its like this nowadays. Rush through a dungeon in like 10-15 minutes to farm tomes for gear. Rush through storyline to get to the point of the next expantion pack coming out so you'll be at current stuff. Rush through leveling so you can get to the good stuff.
Seriously so many peaple these days wanna hurry and get stuff done quickly.
Didn't mmo's used to be more laid back. Were peaple took there time and enjoyed the journey instead of hurrying to finish stuff all the time like it is now.
Its like when i enter a dungeon and end up being in a speed run, when i prefer going a slower pace. That's just the way i am, but its impossible to bypass the rushers these days.
Well....ever since I am playing MMO or MMORPG's since meridian59I often read/saw people asking what's the fastest way to cap lvl/skill/ability's.
Only thing changed, they don't need to ask anymore and just play as the game and the internet will guide them.
The very first time I saw this was opening week when DDO went free to play.
These people obviously knew the game and were way over powered for the content.
My guess is that they were high level players burning alts up to match the level of their mains.
The dungeon run had the finesse of a group of people devouring a full course buffet in 90 seconds. Efficient, but boy was it messy. *burp*
A few of these and I went back to soloing, eventually to drop the game completely.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Comments
Thats why I think there should be a balance for it, instead of to fast or to slow make it more moderate but rewarding like a normal rpg.
Still not seeing it. Keep explaining please.
/snicker
I think one person mentioned it but no one picked it up. People are rushing to get to that so-called "end game". They want to start PvPing or raiding in that end game and that is all they really care about. Story and lore and enjoying how that unfolds is just not what they want. Frankly, I do not understand why they even play MMO's. Why not just play a FPS or MOBA instead.
Let's party like it is 1863!
I think you meant proverbial goldfish rather than average goldfish. How would you measure attention span in goldfish anyway? (BTW it has been proven that goldfish can remember stuff for more than three months).
You need to learn what lies are. This is the lead designer of CoH specifically stating in his definition of "timesink" that the purpose of timesinks is to keep players subscribed longer. It's not like we even needed a lead designer of a MMORPG to say that to draw the obvious correlation between timesinks becoming common + only in MMORPGs + which are the only games that sold time (subscriptions) to players.
So no, it's not a lie. Lies are a deliberate attempt to mislead. My posts are a deliberate attempt to educate you on the truth of the matter. They're rooted in evidence (the MMORPG flat out saying they're a money-grab) and logic (time-selling games consistently being timesink-heavy.)
Surely you must realize the difference in tedium between "kill these monsters forever" and "Kill these monsters; fetch this item; kill this boss; return to town; bomb these targets; play plants vs. zombies; kill these monsters; go to the next town..." Quests are objectively more varied, and variety is a major way of preventing things from becoming tedious in a game.
Even if you personally prefer those older games, surely you recognize that for most gamers the latter set of activities would be considered far less tedious.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Wow amazing one dev speaks for all mmorpgs I suppose which by the way isnt that different then what mmorpgs do today with cash shops, you are lying because your speaking for more then just one older mmorpg. And coh didnt take that long lol, id rather have a fun leveling experience then a shallow rushing experience with lame grouping mechanics.
Wait a minute in another thread you post how a WoW dev said something that when twisted around made it sound like it supported your QQing. But now when someone post about another dev saying something you dont like or agree with because it does not suit your QQing, you make a stupid remark like "wow amazing one dev speaks for all mmorpgs" ? I believe there is a word for that...I will let you GOOGLE it since thats where you get all your info.
Because time investment is proportional to the appreciation of the reward. I liked the slow pace of EQ because it gave me downtime to socialize. Time to stop and smell the roses, time to think and plan, it gave the world distance with long travel times and made spells like Spirit of the Wolf very meaningful along with Druid and Wizard Teleports.
Mainly because of time relating to appreciation of the reward. It took me 13 Phinnys to get my wizard epic but I then proceeded to port to every wizard spire and click the thing with glee, heck even when I log in now it has sentimental value. Nothing in newer games has helped me form the bonds that I had with people in Everquest. It's all fast paced dungeon run in 15 mins achievement every 2 minutes max level in a week if that.
I like a MMORPG that requires time investment. I enjoy taking things at a slow pace, it's relaxing. Newer MMORPGs are so fast paced it's over almost as soon as it starts. I don't have any time to get invested or socialize.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I certainly hope not. I never got 100x the enjoyment if I spend 100 hours on a game instead of one. And i don't play games for the "reward" .. i play it for fun.
And it isn't very fun if nothing is happening .. at least to me.
Right, several F2P MMORPGs do bloat their timesinks to sell XP potions. Meanwhile games like ESO, GW2, and WOW definitely aren't that way, and are some of the better-performing MMORPGs.
Again, drop this "lie" nonsense. It's sensationalist garbage, and the thing you claim I'm lying about is actually the truth.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You act as though time isn't being invested. You act as though more than 0.5% of players are reaching the point where no more time invested will be rewarded. But the truth is that fewer than 0.5% of players are going to end up with best-in-slot-everything, so that's at least 99.5% of players who still have time left to invest and rewards left to gain (rewards which can only be reached through monumental time investment.)
What post-2010 MMORPGs have you achieved best-in-slot-everything? None? Well then your appreciation for the rewards you got in those games obviously isn't going to be much if you're not actually putting the same effort and time into the games...
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I miss systems that included downtime.
I remember BSing around in a Cantina in star wars galaxies to restore stats to players by being a musician. I remember waiting on spawns in Asheron's Call and chilling in the trading hub. I miss barter economies that I needed to communicate with other players in person rather than interface with a auction house market system.
Game systems incentives accomplishments only and they have taken out all the downtime because people did not like downtime. Now, players do not even have time to type or they are losing efficiency.
Part of this is the complaints of a portion of the player base and how the developers of newer games decided to change their game.
In vanilla WoW it took a good 30-40 seconds to recharge your health bar by using food and waiting a bit which even allowed some dungeon chatter in a group setting as you had to wait for mana and health. Now it fills up in 4 seconds. People really wonder why no one talks anymore?
Most of the activities besides combat was removed or reduced to side tasks so that they are completely optional so that the combat never has to stop....and then people wonder why we have players that are content locust players that don't talk?
I feel like the main reason people rush is because games now focus more on endgame than anything else. If you're not at cap you're not having much fun. Get to cap as quickly as possible so you can experience the other 70% of the game!
Earlier games spread their content out so you had more to do while leveling...which made sense seeing how long it would take you to level in older MMORPGs. It's not justifiable in todays MMOs seeing how you can generally go from level 1 to cap in a few days to a couple of weeks. I never used to hit cap because of how much of a slog it was, despite playing all the time. Now I blink twice and miss the levels inbetween start and cap.
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
Well....ever since I am playing MMO or MMORPG's since meridian59I often read/saw people asking what's the fastest way to cap lvl/skill/ability's.
Only thing changed, they don't need to ask anymore and just play as the game and the internet will guide them.
The very first time I saw this was opening week when DDO went free to play.
These people obviously knew the game and were way over powered for the content.
My guess is that they were high level players burning alts up to match the level of their mains.
The dungeon run had the finesse of a group of people devouring a full course buffet in 90 seconds. Efficient, but boy was it messy. *burp*
A few of these and I went back to soloing, eventually to drop the game completely.
OP you a funny guy.
SOON ™
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!