Have you seen game-play videos? It's like a parody or a weekend project of a 15 year old. I don't think this has potential or a future. Some games are just really bad and this is one of them especially since they use Unity and will soon discover that the limitations of the engine will not allow for creation of a huge MMORPG unless you completely re-write the core engine and get rid of the java and C# nonsense.
Got it, you don't like the graphics. Is that your sole beef, or is there more. I understand if you don't like the game because of the graphics, but when you say that it doesn't have potential or a future, it sounds like there is more to it than just the graphics. I ask, because I am interested in hearing peoples reasons pro and con for the game. It's one I'm starting to get interested in, so I'm trying guage things.
I've been on the lookout for the next new indie MMO with the kind of atmosphere you descibe in the thread here. Kickstarter is a great tool for backing the things that you do love but so far I've seen no MMO with kickstarter funding actually finish and release. Pathfinder Online looks like it's going to be a good game if it lives up to the promise. Gamers have been let down far to many times when it comes to sandbox titles.
Personally I prefer a living enviroment over a guided themepark experience on rails. There have been several attempts at releasing a successful MMORPG with sandbox elements. Unfortunately most of them turn out to be PVP gank fest and a griefers paradise when they release. Hopefully Goblinworks has a gem here to save us all but I'll believe it when I see it. It will take a bit more convincing before I become a backer.
Have you seen game-play videos? It's like a parody or a weekend project of a 15 year old. I don't think this has potential or a future. Some games are just really bad and this is one of them especially since they use Unity and will soon discover that the limitations of the engine will not allow for creation of a huge MMORPG unless you completely re-write the core engine and get rid of the java and C# nonsense.
Got it, you don't like the graphics. Is that your sole beef, or is there more. I understand if you don't like the game because of the graphics, but when you say that it doesn't have potential or a future, it sounds like there is more to it than just the graphics. I ask, because I am interested in hearing peoples reasons pro and con for the game. It's one I'm starting to get interested in, so I'm trying guage things.
Also did not like:
The ass attached health bars that bounce up and down when you run. This is the most funny thing i have seen in a while! I first thought it was a joke until someone said this is a real game.
The Mobs standing still until someone comes close.
The combat that does not have animations or skips animations.
The sound that is not in sync with the combat and sounds horrible.
Basically the whole thing looks like an amateur project made in a dorm room. Actually, i take that back, i have seen better dorm room Projects than this.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
So the real problem is not that sandboxes are shallow games with nothing to worth doing or accomplishing, the real problem is that people just don't know "if the game is for them?" I think not. If thats really the problem, apparently none of the modern sandbox games are for anyone, because they've all struggled for the very same reasons. Theres nothing worth doing and theres nothing worth fighting over. Counterstrike with elves, does not an MMORPG make.
If you feel that way about sandboxes, you can expect no different from PFO, and perhaps even less from it because it is not fully featured yet.
Would you care to give examples of what sandbox MMOs you are referring to.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
The ass attached health bars that bounce up and down when you run. This is the most funny thing i have seen in a while! I first thought it was a joke until someone said this is a real game.
The Mobs standing still until someone comes close.
The combat that does not have animations or skips animations.
The sound that is not in sync with the combat and sounds horrible.
I think those are all fair critiques, and since those are things that matter to you, it's pretty clear this won't be a game you'd enjoy any time soon. I don't like those things earlier, but I can put up with them because the underlying game systems and the social interaction they produce are very satisfying for me, and because I've seen such steady progress in development.
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Nox, Being the second poster in this thread did you have to repost quote his entire post haha?
OP you make the game sound amazing, but your right graphically and performance wise there has been little to no development resources spent there, just the bare minimum to deliver content.
I tried it but even with a high end gaming rig the game ran so poorly I couldn't deal with it, hurt my eyes after 5 mins. So choppy. The Unity engine is a rough choice for a big game world unless your willing to focus allot of resource's on optimization. Out of the box its horribly inefficient for something like an MMO.
I'm hoping they can optimize the game at some point, I might try it again.
Game uses Unity but pretty much all of it was written from scratch including graphics and net code.
And you know this because you are a PFO developer. I don't think so.
If they "wrote the graphics" then they must have done a piss poor job because they look like 2005 graphics. Have you seen the game? It's hilarious how bad it is.
God i just love ignorant people like you
I know about this because Goblinworks CEO said it on their official forums and yeah graphics are far from good because game is still in very much early development but guess what i dont give a crap about graphics cause i am having more fun in this game than any other MMO.
So the real problem is not that sandboxes are shallow games with nothing to worth doing or accomplishing, the real problem is that people just don't know "if the game is for them?" I think not. If thats really the problem, apparently none of the modern sandbox games are for anyone, because they've all struggled for the very same reasons. Theres nothing worth doing and theres nothing worth fighting over. Counterstrike with elves, does not an MMORPG make.
If you feel that way about sandboxes, you can expect no different from PFO, and perhaps even less from it because it is not fully featured yet.
Would you care to give examples of what sandbox MMOs you are referring to.
Pretty much all of them, except for the most beloved exceptions like SWG or UO. They all find some sort of hook to draw a playerbase, PFOs being Pathfinder rpg. Often its fighting over territory or castles. Other times its deep crafting. None of those things in and of themselves are enough. They should be thought of as props used to created a believable scene, not used as a foundation for creating a world. The cliche that "the players are the content" is a nothing but a marketing line, for it has never been enough on its own.
The ones that were different were those that took the time to create a better atmosphere. They had more PvE, they took the time to create lore, backstory, they had npc factions, evil antagonists and bosses, and more overall forms of progression. That content naturally became something players fought over, and provided the player with something to do every time they logged in.
So the real problem is not that sandboxes are shallow games with nothing to worth doing or accomplishing, the real problem is that people just don't know "if the game is for them?" I think not. If thats really the problem, apparently none of the modern sandbox games are for anyone, because they've all struggled for the very same reasons. Theres nothing worth doing and theres nothing worth fighting over. Counterstrike with elves, does not an MMORPG make.
If you feel that way about sandboxes, you can expect no different from PFO, and perhaps even less from it because it is not fully featured yet.
Would you care to give examples of what sandbox MMOs you are referring to.
Pretty much all of them, except for the most beloved exceptions like SWG or UO. They all find some sort of hook to draw a playerbase, PFOs being Pathfinder rpg. Often its fighting over territory or castles. Other times its deep crafting. None of those things in and of themselves are enough. They should be thought of as props used to created a believable scene, not used as a foundation for creating a world. The cliche that "the players are the content" is a nothing but a marketing line, for it has never been enough on its own.
The ones that were different were those that took the time to create a better atmosphere. They had more PvE, they took the time to create lore, backstory, they had npc factions, evil antagonists and bosses, and more overall forms of progression. That content naturally became something players fought over, and provided the player with something to do every time they logged in.
I think you may be confusing theme park MMOs for sandbox MMOs. When you say "pretty much all of them, but SWG, UO" and you make no mention of EvE Online, you just as well have said "none of the important ones".
Sandbox mmos are primarily built with a focus on PvP and any PvE is meant to support the primary focus. Sandbox MMOs, because of their usual lack of PvE content or PVE risk, require heavy gear degradation (full loot, or high durability loss) in order to keep the crafter / gatherers meaningfully employed. That loot needs to be salvagable so that it can be repurposed into an item that is needed. Crafter and gatherers need to have risk, so that pvpers have both a stake in protecting them and a goal in preying upon them. When balanced correctly, the game becomes an endless war machine where each of its cogs plays their part in keeping the machine running. Having many, many war machines spurs on multiple conflicts, keeping an entire server busy.
Eve has struck that balance, but after 12 years and the lack of avatars, players are naturally looking for something new but equally well done.
Im not asking for PFO to be at EvE's point in 2015, but how about where it was in 2004? You can not tell me that the starting point has not moved in 11 years. An alpha today should perform, look and behave better than a game made 8-10 years ago.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
I agree with the OP that this game really matters. It sets the bar for new misschief from game developers. Now they know they can get away with charging full sub+box fee for what is basically an alpha testing phase, while accusing those fans of not doing enough PR work. The first ever 'early enrollment' and we were all here to witness it! Truly a revolution in gaming as once again the bar is lowered.
Originally posted by vgamer I agree with the OP that this game really matters. It sets the bar for new misschief from game developers. Now they know they can get away with charging full sub+box fee for what is basically an alpha testing phase, while accusing those fans of not doing enough PR work. Truly a revolution in gaming as once again the bar is lowered.
+1
QFT
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Nox, Being the second poster in this thread did you have to repost quote his entire post haha?
OP you make the game sound amazing, but your right graphically and performance wise there has been little to no development resources spent there, just the bare minimum to deliver content.
I tried it but even with a high end gaming rig the game ran so poorly I couldn't deal with it, hurt my eyes after 5 mins. So choppy. The Unity engine is a rough choice for a big game world unless your willing to focus allot of resource's on optimization. Out of the box its horribly inefficient for something like an MMO.
I'm hoping they can optimize the game at some point, I might try it again.
Game uses Unity but pretty much all of it was written from scratch including graphics and net code.
And you know this because you are a PFO developer. I don't think so.
If they "wrote the graphics" then they must have done a piss poor job because they look like 2005 graphics. Have you seen the game? It's hilarious how bad it is.
God i just love ignorant people like you
I know about this because Goblinworks CEO said it on their official forums and yeah graphics are far from good because game is still in very much early development but guess what i dont give a crap about graphics cause i am having more fun in this game than any other MMO.
If you dont like it dont play it.
No need to get personal, i am not playing it because what i have seen is not worth a box price plus a **monthly subscription**. If you think it is then that is fine but calling me ignorant because you have no arguments other than some vague "wrote graphics and netcode" from a developer that has a game that does not look like they done anything to the graphics or netcode.
If they "written the graphics and netcode" it sure is not in the game yet because the graphics are horrible and the animations and fighting look like it's not synchronized at all.
So excuse me if i doubt that statement especially if it comes form a CEO that tries to recruit his players to get more people to subscribe to this garbage.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Originally posted by vgamer I agree with the OP that this game really matters. It sets the bar for new misschief from game developers. Now they know they can get away with charging full sub+box fee for what is basically an alpha testing phase, while accusing those fans of not doing enough PR work. Truly a revolution in gaming as once again the bar is lowered.
+1
QFT
+2
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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There's no need for personal animosity in this discussion. No one's dumb/smart for liking/disliking game X.
People who don't want to play PFO aren't wrong/dumb/whatever. For a host of good reasons they could dislike the design goals, dislike the current state of the game client, not be confident in the developers, etc. That's a pretty personal decision.
People who DO want to play PFO aren't wrong/dumb/whatever. For a host of good reasons they could love the design goals, enjoy the complex game systems, be confident in the developers, etc. That's a pretty personal decision.
I'm a former USMC Major, a PhD research scientist--I'm a reasonably sharp guy I think the game is worth playing and paying $15 a month, and that reflects my world-class expertise in what I personally like and am willing to pay for.
I think you may be confusing theme park MMOs for sandbox MMOs. When you say "pretty much all of them, but SWG, UO" and you make no mention of EvE Online, you just as well have said "none of the important ones".
Sandbox mmos are primarily built with a focus on PvP and any PvE is meant to support the primary focus. Sandbox MMOs, because of their usual lack of PvE content or PVE risk, require heavy gear degradation (full loot, or high durability loss) in order to keep the crafter / gatherers meaningfully employed. That loot needs to be salvagable so that it can be repurposed into an item that is needed. Crafter and gatherers need to have risk, so that pvpers have both a stake in protecting them and a goal in preying upon them. When balanced correctly, the game becomes an endless war machine where each of its cogs plays their part in keeping the machine running. Having many, many war machines spurs on multiple conflicts, keeping an entire server busy.
...
I'm confusing nothing. A sandbox can be PvE just as easily as it can be PvP. Its just a game with no set path, with no one particular way to play but rather many gameplay spheres such as adventure, crafting, commerce, or any other social form of gameplay. In recent years, theres been a number of games that refer to themselves as sandbox, but the truth is they are just as shallow as the themeparks they like to differentiate from. A game doesn't just magically become worth playing if you slap down a world at random and give players the ability to craft. That has never made for a fun experience.
I think you may be confusing theme park MMOs for sandbox MMOs. When you say "pretty much all of them, but SWG, UO" and you make no mention of EvE Online, you just as well have said "none of the important ones".
Sandbox mmos are primarily built with a focus on PvP and any PvE is meant to support the primary focus. Sandbox MMOs, because of their usual lack of PvE content or PVE risk, require heavy gear degradation (full loot, or high durability loss) in order to keep the crafter / gatherers meaningfully employed. That loot needs to be salvagable so that it can be repurposed into an item that is needed. Crafter and gatherers need to have risk, so that pvpers have both a stake in protecting them and a goal in preying upon them. When balanced correctly, the game becomes an endless war machine where each of its cogs plays their part in keeping the machine running. Having many, many war machines spurs on multiple conflicts, keeping an entire server busy.
...
I'm confusing nothing. A sandbox can be PvE just as easily as it can be PvP. Its just a game with no set path, with no one particular way to play but rather many gameplay spheres such as adventure, crafting, commerce, or any other social form of gameplay. In recent years, theres been a number of games that refer to themselves as sandbox, but the truth is they are just as shallow as the themeparks they like to differentiate from. A game doesn't just magically become worth playing if you slap down a world at random and give players the ability to craft. That has never made for a fun experience.
I thought I was pretty clear in recognizing that both are needed. PVP however is the driver of the economy and the focus of the action in most sandbox MMOs.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
I think you may be confusing theme park MMOs for sandbox MMOs. When you say "pretty much all of them, but SWG, UO" and you make no mention of EvE Online, you just as well have said "none of the important ones".
Sandbox mmos are primarily built with a focus on PvP and any PvE is meant to support the primary focus. Sandbox MMOs, because of their usual lack of PvE content or PVE risk, require heavy gear degradation (full loot, or high durability loss) in order to keep the crafter / gatherers meaningfully employed. That loot needs to be salvagable so that it can be repurposed into an item that is needed. Crafter and gatherers need to have risk, so that pvpers have both a stake in protecting them and a goal in preying upon them. When balanced correctly, the game becomes an endless war machine where each of its cogs plays their part in keeping the machine running. Having many, many war machines spurs on multiple conflicts, keeping an entire server busy.
...
I'm confusing nothing. A sandbox can be PvE just as easily as it can be PvP. Its just a game with no set path, with no one particular way to play but rather many gameplay spheres such as adventure, crafting, commerce, or any other social form of gameplay. In recent years, theres been a number of games that refer to themselves as sandbox, but the truth is they are just as shallow as the themeparks they like to differentiate from. A game doesn't just magically become worth playing if you slap down a world at random and give players the ability to craft. That has never made for a fun experience.
I thought I was pretty clear in recognizing that both are needed. PVP however is the driver of the economy and the focus of the action in most sandbox MMOs.
Absolutely not true. Just because most sandbox MMOs (and let's face it a lot of them are not even real sandbox games) rely on PvP doesn't mean they all have to and in fact sandbox MMO doesn't even need combat or economy for that matter.
Originally posted by CrazKanuk I find it so funny and interesting that this whole Why PFO Matters thread came up after I read this
Can you expand on that? What exactly do you find funny? What do you find interesting?
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Originally posted by CrazKanuk I find it so funny and interesting that this whole Why PFO Matters thread came up after I read this
It actually came up a few days before that post, and is probably part of what triggered it.
I can't say I agree with Mbando on everything, but most of what we disagree on is opinions, and my opinions are no move valid than his. And nobody can say he isn't passionate about PFO..
That is an understatement. I'm almost to the point where I would go out on a limb and say that PFO is the first game to effectively mobilize their stalwart fans in some sort of organized, persistent, propaganda campaign. I mean it happens with other games organically all the time, but it doesn't seem it's to the same extent and it, certainly, doesn't have the CEO chiming in. Right now I'm not sure whether this helps or hurts the game. I guess only time will tell.
Where is anyone that supports the game passing or dishing out propaganda? Help me out here. Is there misinformation being written by those people?
Or maybe you mean promoting that people should try a free 15 day key and decide for themselves? Or countering misinformation that a few people post?
It seems reasonable to me to support the Devs assertion that the game is functioning in the features that are released. I use most of them every time that I play. That they are enough for some people to find value in playing the game and paying for it, at this time. Certainly NOT that most MMO fans, or even many, will agree with that.
It isn't an issue that many do not like the price model compared to the state of the game. That is a personal choice. The game is far from complete (is any MMO ever?) or worth the price in most people's minds.
Let's try and keep things about what they should be about. It isn't necessary to dig quotes, take them out of context, and twist them to serve an agenda.
People are not stupid or bad for writing and posting opinions. People are bad when they purposely write and post incorrect info or twist things.
For instance, a little easy research could suss out the background of this: Ryan Dancey is trying to get the players to recruit for the game because the player base is low.
Those threads were started because players were complaining that the pop is low and they can't recruit (in game) for their companies and settlements. The big and successful groups are and have been promoting outside the game. Many were not and still aren't.
Will GW benefit if we bring more players in? Yes. Will the companies and settlements of players benefit if more people play? Yes.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
Where is anyone that supports the game passing or dishing out propaganda?
The title of this thread is propaganda. It suggests that PFO matters - it does not.
It's just another game in skeleton state, so badly done that the CEO is sending out his fans to lure in more people to earn money and maybe, just maybe, turn this into a fully fleshed out game one day.
I'm confusing nothing. A sandbox can be PvE just as easily as it can be PvP. Its just a game with no set path, with no one particular way to play but rather many gameplay spheres such as adventure, crafting, commerce, or any other social form of gameplay. In recent years, theres been a number of games that refer to themselves as sandbox, but the truth is they are just as shallow as the themeparks they like to differentiate from. A game doesn't just magically become worth playing if you slap down a world at random and give players the ability to craft. That has never made for a fun experience.
I thought I was pretty clear in recognizing that both are needed. PVP however is the driver of the economy and the focus of the action in most sandbox MMOs.
The reason for that is usually that it takes the least possibly effort from the devs.
Get me right here, PvP can be really fun (and it could be a lot more fun if more games didn't use PvE mechanics in combat) but there should be PvE focused sandboxes as well as PvP focused ones.
As for PFO I do think they have their ideas right but it seems to me that they really don't have enough resources to make the game into what it should be. The paid Alpha thing means it will take forever to update it. I wish they could have gotten Paizo to actually put in some cash so they could have released it in a better shape and with at least updated character models.
Where is anyone that supports the game passing or dishing out propaganda?
The title of this thread is propaganda. It suggests that PFO matters - it does not.
It's just another game in skeleton state, so badly done that the CEO is sending out his fans to lure in more people to earn money and maybe, just maybe, turn this into a fully fleshed out game one day.
Splitting hairs here, but a suggestion or an opinion are not propaganda. In any case, you have an opinion that contradicts the OP's.
Fair enough!
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Comments
Got it, you don't like the graphics. Is that your sole beef, or is there more. I understand if you don't like the game because of the graphics, but when you say that it doesn't have potential or a future, it sounds like there is more to it than just the graphics. I ask, because I am interested in hearing peoples reasons pro and con for the game. It's one I'm starting to get interested in, so I'm trying guage things.
I self identify as a monkey.
I've been on the lookout for the next new indie MMO with the kind of atmosphere you descibe in the thread here. Kickstarter is a great tool for backing the things that you do love but so far I've seen no MMO with kickstarter funding actually finish and release. Pathfinder Online looks like it's going to be a good game if it lives up to the promise. Gamers have been let down far to many times when it comes to sandbox titles.
Personally I prefer a living enviroment over a guided themepark experience on rails. There have been several attempts at releasing a successful MMORPG with sandbox elements. Unfortunately most of them turn out to be PVP gank fest and a griefers paradise when they release. Hopefully Goblinworks has a gem here to save us all but I'll believe it when I see it. It will take a bit more convincing before I become a backer.
Also did not like:
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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If you feel that way about sandboxes, you can expect no different from PFO, and perhaps even less from it because it is not fully featured yet.
Would you care to give examples of what sandbox MMOs you are referring to.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
I think those are all fair critiques, and since those are things that matter to you, it's pretty clear this won't be a game you'd enjoy any time soon. I don't like those things earlier, but I can put up with them because the underlying game systems and the social interaction they produce are very satisfying for me, and because I've seen such steady progress in development.
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In order to have begun using your game time you had to have created a character and logged into the game. If you didn't do that and your game time was consumed, please email [email protected] and I'll be happy to talk to you about the situation. Likewise, if you were unable to play due to hardware issues or because you're using a Mac also please email me and we'll talk about an equitable resolution for you.
And if you'd like a free 15 day trial, also please email [email protected] and we'll get you set right up!
God i just love ignorant people like you
I know about this because Goblinworks CEO said it on their official forums and yeah graphics are far from good because game is still in very much early development but guess what i dont give a crap about graphics cause i am having more fun in this game than any other MMO.
If you dont like it dont play it.
Pretty much all of them, except for the most beloved exceptions like SWG or UO. They all find some sort of hook to draw a playerbase, PFOs being Pathfinder rpg. Often its fighting over territory or castles. Other times its deep crafting. None of those things in and of themselves are enough. They should be thought of as props used to created a believable scene, not used as a foundation for creating a world. The cliche that "the players are the content" is a nothing but a marketing line, for it has never been enough on its own.
The ones that were different were those that took the time to create a better atmosphere. They had more PvE, they took the time to create lore, backstory, they had npc factions, evil antagonists and bosses, and more overall forms of progression. That content naturally became something players fought over, and provided the player with something to do every time they logged in.
I think you may be confusing theme park MMOs for sandbox MMOs. When you say "pretty much all of them, but SWG, UO" and you make no mention of EvE Online, you just as well have said "none of the important ones".
Sandbox mmos are primarily built with a focus on PvP and any PvE is meant to support the primary focus. Sandbox MMOs, because of their usual lack of PvE content or PVE risk, require heavy gear degradation (full loot, or high durability loss) in order to keep the crafter / gatherers meaningfully employed. That loot needs to be salvagable so that it can be repurposed into an item that is needed. Crafter and gatherers need to have risk, so that pvpers have both a stake in protecting them and a goal in preying upon them. When balanced correctly, the game becomes an endless war machine where each of its cogs plays their part in keeping the machine running. Having many, many war machines spurs on multiple conflicts, keeping an entire server busy.
Eve has struck that balance, but after 12 years and the lack of avatars, players are naturally looking for something new but equally well done.
Im not asking for PFO to be at EvE's point in 2015, but how about where it was in 2004? You can not tell me that the starting point has not moved in 11 years. An alpha today should perform, look and behave better than a game made 8-10 years ago.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
+1
QFT
No need to get personal, i am not playing it because what i have seen is not worth a box price plus a **monthly subscription**. If you think it is then that is fine but calling me ignorant because you have no arguments other than some vague "wrote graphics and netcode" from a developer that has a game that does not look like they done anything to the graphics or netcode.
If they "written the graphics and netcode" it sure is not in the game yet because the graphics are horrible and the animations and fighting look like it's not synchronized at all.
So excuse me if i doubt that statement especially if it comes form a CEO that tries to recruit his players to get more people to subscribe to this garbage.
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+2
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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There's no need for personal animosity in this discussion. No one's dumb/smart for liking/disliking game X.
People who don't want to play PFO aren't wrong/dumb/whatever. For a host of good reasons they could dislike the design goals, dislike the current state of the game client, not be confident in the developers, etc. That's a pretty personal decision.
People who DO want to play PFO aren't wrong/dumb/whatever. For a host of good reasons they could love the design goals, enjoy the complex game systems, be confident in the developers, etc. That's a pretty personal decision.
I'm a former USMC Major, a PhD research scientist--I'm a reasonably sharp guy
I think the game is worth playing and paying $15 a month, and that reflects my world-class expertise in what I personally like and am willing to pay for.
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I'm confusing nothing. A sandbox can be PvE just as easily as it can be PvP. Its just a game with no set path, with no one particular way to play but rather many gameplay spheres such as adventure, crafting, commerce, or any other social form of gameplay. In recent years, theres been a number of games that refer to themselves as sandbox, but the truth is they are just as shallow as the themeparks they like to differentiate from. A game doesn't just magically become worth playing if you slap down a world at random and give players the ability to craft. That has never made for a fun experience.
I thought I was pretty clear in recognizing that both are needed. PVP however is the driver of the economy and the focus of the action in most sandbox MMOs.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
Absolutely not true. Just because most sandbox MMOs (and let's face it a lot of them are not even real sandbox games) rely on PvP doesn't mean they all have to and in fact sandbox MMO doesn't even need combat or economy for that matter.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Can you expand on that? What exactly do you find funny? What do you find interesting?
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That is an understatement. I'm almost to the point where I would go out on a limb and say that PFO is the first game to effectively mobilize their stalwart fans in some sort of organized, persistent, propaganda campaign. I mean it happens with other games organically all the time, but it doesn't seem it's to the same extent and it, certainly, doesn't have the CEO chiming in. Right now I'm not sure whether this helps or hurts the game. I guess only time will tell.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Propaganda?
Where is anyone that supports the game passing or dishing out propaganda? Help me out here. Is there misinformation being written by those people?
Or maybe you mean promoting that people should try a free 15 day key and decide for themselves? Or countering misinformation that a few people post?
It seems reasonable to me to support the Devs assertion that the game is functioning in the features that are released. I use most of them every time that I play. That they are enough for some people to find value in playing the game and paying for it, at this time. Certainly NOT that most MMO fans, or even many, will agree with that.
It isn't an issue that many do not like the price model compared to the state of the game. That is a personal choice. The game is far from complete (is any MMO ever?) or worth the price in most people's minds.
Let's try and keep things about what they should be about. It isn't necessary to dig quotes, take them out of context, and twist them to serve an agenda.
People are not stupid or bad for writing and posting opinions. People are bad when they purposely write and post incorrect info or twist things.
For instance, a little easy research could suss out the background of this: Ryan Dancey is trying to get the players to recruit for the game because the player base is low.
Those threads were started because players were complaining that the pop is low and they can't recruit (in game) for their companies and settlements. The big and successful groups are and have been promoting outside the game. Many were not and still aren't.
Will GW benefit if we bring more players in? Yes. Will the companies and settlements of players benefit if more people play? Yes.
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The title of this thread is propaganda. It suggests that PFO matters - it does not.
It's just another game in skeleton state, so badly done that the CEO is sending out his fans to lure in more people to earn money and maybe, just maybe, turn this into a fully fleshed out game one day.
The reason for that is usually that it takes the least possibly effort from the devs.
Get me right here, PvP can be really fun (and it could be a lot more fun if more games didn't use PvE mechanics in combat) but there should be PvE focused sandboxes as well as PvP focused ones.
As for PFO I do think they have their ideas right but it seems to me that they really don't have enough resources to make the game into what it should be. The paid Alpha thing means it will take forever to update it. I wish they could have gotten Paizo to actually put in some cash so they could have released it in a better shape and with at least updated character models.
Splitting hairs here, but a suggestion or an opinion are not propaganda. In any case, you have an opinion that contradicts the OP's.
Fair enough!
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Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
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