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Q1 2015 NCSoft Sale Report

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Comments

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow Member UncommonPosts: 1,185

    Wildstar was released with very little content, mostly artificially gated.

    The PvP progression was dull and the PvE was mostly running same dailies over and over again.

    After the launch they dropped the 30 day "huge patch cycle" and after a year we've seen 5? small content patches.

     

    This is really not how you create a successful MMORPG. At the current state Wildstar is just waiting to be shutdown. Wouldn't recommend anyone to play it.

    Which is shame because I had a lot of fun with the levelling and was really excited to see Wildstar become popular. Unfortunately I was wrong and it completely failed due to lack of updates and fired development team.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,778
    A transition to B2P would bring back old players who will spend some amount of money and that is key. It has had a reasonably decent box sales. The shift in payment model could bring in those who will spend a box fee and the occasional extra but not an ongoing sub. I think on these forums it's so popular to crow about subs and how it's nothing, but outside of here most people aren't interested in another monthly bill or being tied to a recurring payment. It lowers the barrier immensely without dropping it completely. It allows previous customers to pay some more without requiring them to pay more or commit to payments.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by Torval
    A transition to B2P would bring back old players who will spend some amount of money and that is key. It has had a reasonably decent box sales. The shift in payment model could bring in those who will spend a box fee and the occasional extra but not an ongoing sub. I think on these forums it's so popular to crow about subs and how it's nothing, but outside of here most people aren't interested in another monthly bill or being tied to a recurring payment. It lowers the barrier immensely without dropping it completely. It allows previous customers to pay some more without requiring them to pay more or commit to payments.

    I would totally agree with you about B2P if we were still just after launch but before Drop 3.

    However, it's a year later, and were on Drop 5.

    The iceberg isn't ahead ... It's already been hit.

    (EDIT: To clarify, I don't mind subscriptions, at all. I've been paying one since EQ RoK. However, I know for many people it's a hassle to remember which games you're subscribed to and manage credit cards, etc. I don't like subscribing to more than one game at a time, generally, either. It's easy to get engulfed in new content in one game and not play the other for a month, or forget you have a subscription to it entirely.)

     

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Member Posts: 423
    Another MMO death rattle continues unabated.... who is next I wonder?
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,622
    Haven't given a penny to NCSoft  since August 31, 2012.   You just can't trust them to support their games, even the ones making money.   But you can trust them to lie about whatever they say.  

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by d_20
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by rojoArcueid
    Originally posted by zaberfangx
    The longer they wait on doing something it may go the way of city of heroes, or they may just sell it off, they are trying to avoid nexon take over having a game thats making them look bad will not work out for them to avoid the take over.

    Square Enix showed that it is possible to take a dead game and completely overhaul it and turn it unto a successful game. There is a lot to overhaul in WS to make it successful. If they dont do something fast the game will just die, alone.

    Like what?

    I subbed this month and I like WildStar a lot. It really is a good game. What it needs is people. I'm not sure how they can pull it off on that.

     

    Wildstar is a much better pve game than WoW, in my opinion. WoW is just old. Tab targeting is boring. I find the combat in WS quite fun. Apparently not enough people feel the same way.

     

    In all seriousness, if this game had more people it would be great. Is it really the monthly sub that drives people away? Even though WoW still charges one? Is the art style that bad that people can't see past it, get used to it, and see the gameplay?

     

    Obviously this is all subjective. I didn't like the game much the first time I played it, but when I came back and gave it another chance I really like it. I'm just sorry that more people can't enjoy it.

    The ironic thing is that statement has merit.....

    Me personally, the only thing keeping me form playing it is that you have a better chance of winning the mega millions than getting a LFG or PVP queue to pop pre level cap....

  • avalon1000avalon1000 Member UncommonPosts: 790
    I tried to warn them in early closed beta (later just gave up and quit the beta program). The combat was just awful. Lately it seems a lot of game companies are just shooting themselves in the foot (like Firefall which went from a brilliant game in beta to another same old MMO on release). 
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,392
    The average sub number- 52k@$15 give or take. So March is probably lower.
  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by d_20
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by rojoArcueid
    Originally posted by zaberfangx
    The longer they wait on doing something it may go the way of city of heroes, or they may just sell it off, they are trying to avoid nexon take over having a game thats making them look bad will not work out for them to avoid the take over.

    Square Enix showed that it is possible to take a dead game and completely overhaul it and turn it unto a successful game. There is a lot to overhaul in WS to make it successful. If they dont do something fast the game will just die, alone.

    Like what?

    I subbed this month and I like WildStar a lot. It really is a good game. What it needs is people. I'm not sure how they can pull it off on that.

     

    Wildstar is a much better pve game than WoW, in my opinion. WoW is just old. Tab targeting is boring. I find the combat in WS quite fun. Apparently not enough people feel the same way.

     

    In all seriousness, if this game had more people it would be great. Is it really the monthly sub that drives people away? Even though WoW still charges one? Is the art style that bad that people can't see past it, get used to it, and see the gameplay?

     

    Obviously this is all subjective. I didn't like the game much the first time I played it, but when I came back and gave it another chance I really like it. I'm just sorry that more people can't enjoy it.

    The ironic thing is that statement has merit.....

    Me personally, the only thing keeping me form playing it is that you have a better chance of winning the mega millions than getting a LFG or PVP queue to pop pre level cap....

    That's what I meant. I think the game is great as is. It shines with group content. And that's the problem. It's hard to get a group consistently while leveling (especially if you are Dominion on the NA server who plays at off hours -- Oceanic Time Zone). I can stick with it, but most people will not. Hence, not enough players.

    They marketing team needs to find a way to get people in the game, whatever the payment model. It's a fine game -- it just lacks players now and that's a kind of cycle. People try the game, like it (or want to like it), but don't stay because not enough players.


  • NarwrynnNarwrynn Member UncommonPosts: 83
    No one really knows if B2P, F2P or a relaunch would save the game or which of these options would be best. However, what they are doing now is not working. They need to do something and fast. Every day they wait more of their long-term subscribers are going to leave, the players that could and would be the back bone of their returning player base. 
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,392
    Originally posted by Narwrynn

    No one really knows if B2P, F2P or a relaunch would save the game or which of these options would be best. However, what they are doing now is not working. They need to do something and fast. Every day they wait more of their long-term subscribers are going to leave, the players that could and would be the back bone of their returning player base. 

     Agreed. Whether they keep the sub or not or reduce the price or .... whatever I think the only option available, other than closure, is to try and leverage e.g. GW2. Include a free digital copy of WS with every GW2 xpac; if they want to introduce a cash shop use the one in GW2 and so on.

    These results are so bad they have very little room to do anything. Everything costs money, even closing the game. Leveraging their other games may - just - be an option. Free publicity and so on.

  • LazzaroLazzaro Member UncommonPosts: 548

    Carbine has to do something, or WS will cease to exist in a year.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    Wildstar sales continue to spiral downwards (less than half of Q4 2014 sales), and NCSoft overall has taken a dip from previous quarters.

    http://i.imgur.com/ZPDKW2t.png (By Game)

    http://i.imgur.com/QRScRh0.png (Overall)

    I never imagined the sales for Wildstar would be that low. I wonder how much longer they will wait before switching to F2P or shutting the game down completely.

    (EDIT: These reports end in March, and do not reflect Drop 5 release. However, they do reflect Drop 4, which was heralded as creating a new "resurgence" within the game, where a few players claimed that people were returning in droves. Obviously, that wasn't quite the case.)

    Incorrect, year-over-year profits are actually up. You can't compare quarter to quarter in any business and make assumptions as to whether a company is living or dying. In FACT, the OPERATING PROFIT for the company is like $41M USD. Sorry, that's extremely healthy, I don't care what industry you're in. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    Wildstar sales continue to spiral downwards (less than half of Q4 2014 sales), and NCSoft overall has taken a dip from previous quarters.

    http://i.imgur.com/ZPDKW2t.png (By Game)

    http://i.imgur.com/QRScRh0.png (Overall)

    I never imagined the sales for Wildstar would be that low. I wonder how much longer they will wait before switching to F2P or shutting the game down completely.

    (EDIT: These reports end in March, and do not reflect Drop 5 release. However, they do reflect Drop 4, which was heralded as creating a new "resurgence" within the game, where a few players claimed that people were returning in droves. Obviously, that wasn't quite the case.)

    Incorrect, year-over-year profits are actually up. You can't compare quarter to quarter in any business and make assumptions as to whether a company is living or dying. In FACT, the OPERATING PROFIT for the company is like $41M USD. Sorry, that's extremely healthy, I don't care what industry you're in. 

    Good job on missing how this is about Wildstar, not NCSoft as a whole. There's another thread about that.

    Wildstar sales were cut in half from Q4->Q1. There's nothing "good" about that, especially since it's operating under a loss.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    Wildstar sales continue to spiral downwards (less than half of Q4 2014 sales), and NCSoft overall has taken a dip from previous quarters.

    http://i.imgur.com/ZPDKW2t.png (By Game)

    http://i.imgur.com/QRScRh0.png (Overall)

    I never imagined the sales for Wildstar would be that low. I wonder how much longer they will wait before switching to F2P or shutting the game down completely.

    (EDIT: These reports end in March, and do not reflect Drop 5 release. However, they do reflect Drop 4, which was heralded as creating a new "resurgence" within the game, where a few players claimed that people were returning in droves. Obviously, that wasn't quite the case.)

    Incorrect, year-over-year profits are actually up. You can't compare quarter to quarter in any business and make assumptions as to whether a company is living or dying. In FACT, the OPERATING PROFIT for the company is like $41M USD. Sorry, that's extremely healthy, I don't care what industry you're in. 

    Good job on missing how this is about Wildstar, not NCSoft as a whole. There's another thread about that.

    Wildstar sales were cut in half from Q4->Q1. There's nothing "good" about that, especially since it's operating under a loss.

    Yup! But, if we're talking in the context of Wildstar, the vision has been flawed from the beginning. P2P was a god awful mistake and "hardcore" is, similarly, flawed. I think that going B2P, or even F2P, will give them a bit of a boost. Overall, though, it's done like $50 million in sales. What was the development budget? Not sure. However, if they can convert to B2P or F2P then they could probably do better tan $50 this year. It wouldn't be the first time that a game company had to support a game on life support. Also, if there was no upside then you know NCSoft would pull the plug faster than a gold-digger. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    Wildstar sales continue to spiral downwards (less than half of Q4 2014 sales), and NCSoft overall has taken a dip from previous quarters.

    http://i.imgur.com/ZPDKW2t.png (By Game)

    http://i.imgur.com/QRScRh0.png (Overall)

    I never imagined the sales for Wildstar would be that low. I wonder how much longer they will wait before switching to F2P or shutting the game down completely.

    (EDIT: These reports end in March, and do not reflect Drop 5 release. However, they do reflect Drop 4, which was heralded as creating a new "resurgence" within the game, where a few players claimed that people were returning in droves. Obviously, that wasn't quite the case.)

    Incorrect, year-over-year profits are actually up. You can't compare quarter to quarter in any business and make assumptions as to whether a company is living or dying. In FACT, the OPERATING PROFIT for the company is like $41M USD. Sorry, that's extremely healthy, I don't care what industry you're in. 

    Good job on missing how this is about Wildstar, not NCSoft as a whole. There's another thread about that.

    Wildstar sales were cut in half from Q4->Q1. There's nothing "good" about that, especially since it's operating under a loss.

    Yup! But, if we're talking in the context of Wildstar, the vision has been flawed from the beginning. P2P was a god awful mistake and "hardcore" is, similarly, flawed. I think that going B2P, or even F2P, will give them a bit of a boost. Overall, though, it's done like $50 million in sales. What was the development budget? Not sure. However, if they can convert to B2P or F2P then they could probably do better tan $50 this year. It wouldn't be the first time that a game company had to support a game on life support. Also, if there was no upside then you know NCSoft would pull the plug faster than a gold-digger. 

    I could be completely wrong, but I think the original budget was somewhere between $100-$150m.

    Wildstar is currently not-profitable and making less than CoH was when it WAS profitable. NCSoft will be doing something soon, I expect.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    Wildstar sales continue to spiral downwards (less than half of Q4 2014 sales), and NCSoft overall has taken a dip from previous quarters.

    http://i.imgur.com/ZPDKW2t.png (By Game)

    http://i.imgur.com/QRScRh0.png (Overall)

    I never imagined the sales for Wildstar would be that low. I wonder how much longer they will wait before switching to F2P or shutting the game down completely.

    (EDIT: These reports end in March, and do not reflect Drop 5 release. However, they do reflect Drop 4, which was heralded as creating a new "resurgence" within the game, where a few players claimed that people were returning in droves. Obviously, that wasn't quite the case.)

    Incorrect, year-over-year profits are actually up. You can't compare quarter to quarter in any business and make assumptions as to whether a company is living or dying. In FACT, the OPERATING PROFIT for the company is like $41M USD. Sorry, that's extremely healthy, I don't care what industry you're in. 

    Good job on missing how this is about Wildstar, not NCSoft as a whole. There's another thread about that.

    Wildstar sales were cut in half from Q4->Q1. There's nothing "good" about that, especially since it's operating under a loss.

    Yup! But, if we're talking in the context of Wildstar, the vision has been flawed from the beginning. P2P was a god awful mistake and "hardcore" is, similarly, flawed. I think that going B2P, or even F2P, will give them a bit of a boost. Overall, though, it's done like $50 million in sales. What was the development budget? Not sure. However, if they can convert to B2P or F2P then they could probably do better tan $50 this year. It wouldn't be the first time that a game company had to support a game on life support. Also, if there was no upside then you know NCSoft would pull the plug faster than a gold-digger. 

    I could be completely wrong, but I think the original budget was somewhere between $100-$150m.

    Wildstar is currently not-profitable and making less than CoH was when it WAS profitable. NCSoft will be doing something soon, I expect.

    Agree! IDK what the budget was either, but I wouldn't expect it to be much south of $100M. I think they're at least close to entering black with it, and Wildstar still has legs, as long as they don't decide to eff it up like making it less accessible and going to a super-premium model of like $50 a month, lol. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • VolgoreVolgore Member EpicPosts: 3,872

    I LOVE this! Just like Blizzard's minus 3mio subs, there is nothing more satisfying to a disgruntled gamer than seeing another "studio with an attitude" reaping what they sow. And the denial that has been going on on the official WS forums is pure comedy gold on top of that, as i'm still reading "game's doing fine", "Wildstar is having a huge comeback" and such over there :)

    Too bad for the game though...during the few trials i've played i liked it alot. Also, the rats responsible for this failure have left the sinking ship times ago. They should be tracked down, tarred and feathered the day NCSoft pulls the plug on Carbine.

    image
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,225
    First they will try to make their money back on Wildstar before they shut it down if it is still bringing in cash it would be better for NCSoft to do that. 

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by Volgore

    I LOVE this! Just like Blizzard's minus 3mio subs, there is nothing more satisfying to a disgruntled gamer than seeing another "studio with an attitude" reaping what they sow. And the denial that has been going on on the official WS forums is pure comedy gold on top of that, as i'm still reading "game's doing fine", "Wildstar is having a huge comeback" and such over there :)

    Too bad for the game though...during the few trials i've played i liked it alot. Also, the rats responsible for this failure have left the sinking ship times ago. They should be tracked down, tarred and feathered the day NCSoft pulls the plug on Carbine.

    I won't say it makes me happy to see the game doing poorly, but it does show that the market speaks for itself. No one was interested in actually continuing a "vanilla WoW, hardcore raiding experience". 40 man raids, lengthy attunement processes, and unfinished game play mechanics aren't going to cut it.

    I enjoyed Wildstar, despite its numerous flaws; I hate to see it doing this poorly.

    I've said since just before Drop 3 that the game needed to be B2P. They've missed the B2P window by a large margin now, and simply don't have an established IP to support it.

    I really don't want to see Wildstar shutdown, and I'd much rather see it go F2P. I know the anti-F2P whiteknight tears will flow, but it's really what the game needs to survive at this point.

  • KaladinKaladin Member Posts: 468
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk

    Yup! But, if we're talking in the context of Wildstar, the vision has been flawed from the beginning. P2P was a god awful mistake and "hardcore" is, similarly, flawed. I think that going B2P, or even F2P, will give them a bit of a boost. Overall, though, it's done like $50 million in sales. What was the development budget? Not sure. However, if they can convert to B2P or F2P then they could probably do better tan $50 this year. It wouldn't be the first time that a game company had to support a game on life support. Also, if there was no upside then you know NCSoft would pull the plug faster than a gold-digger. 

    I have stated it before, and been trying to debunk it since.  Wildstar gave itself the perception of being hardcore.  It is not hardcore except in that raiding is difficult.  I don't feel that P2P was a mistake, they have been pumping out decent amounts of content and bug fixes since launch.  But I am at the wrong site to be pitching P2P, nobody here will ever be happy with a game they have to pay for.  So I'll just leave that issue alone.

    Their biggest blunder is letting their game slip under the radar of the masses.  Not many have gamers have heard about it.  I have put it on their forums numerous times that they HAVE to advertise the game in a meaningful way.  Banner ads and a crap-ass twitch stream are not going to cut it.  I understand wanting get a grassroots following, but ffs, they gotta do SOMETHING themselves.  The community has pushed it however they could, but online forums, youtube, reddit, and facebook will not get out to very many people that might actually be interested in the game.

    I even said it here, Drop 5's success would be telling, and they MUST make an honest PR push if the game is to get more people to play it.  And I will admit that they are indeed running out of time here.

     

    The game did seem to be making a comeback in Q1 based on nothing but how many people it looked like were in the game, but that doesn't mean much with the finances.  I suspect that the perceived population boom had more to do with 1. more people leaving the PvP server  2. Free trials  3. returning players using their 10 day trial to buy a CREDD.  All of which would make the population look better, but do nothing financially.  Until I saw the financials myself, I was hopeful they were new subscribers.

    I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
    And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
    Hurt - Wars

  • ArakaziArakazi Member UncommonPosts: 911
    I must be in the tiny minority that didn't think WS was THAT bad. Sure, I got bored of it pretty quick, I didn't even make it past level 30. But I didn't think it was a bad game. I thought the concept was a bit outdated. It was hardly original and there was too much busywork but the core gameplay and the game itself was solid. It wasn't the game for me, but I was sure it would find an audience. Seems as if I was wrong on that count.
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726

    Wildstar had a really bad "identity crisis" upon launching. It was significantly more difficult than WoW, and the endgame raiding content was mostly broken with core aspects of itemization missing, incomplete, or poorly implemented. I've posted a few times as to why the population dropped so dramatically.

    With Drop 5, they've fixed the majority of issues I had with it originally, and are finally adding meaningful content to the game. It's in a prime state for F2P conversion.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,392
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk

    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Wildstar sales continue to spiral downwards (less than half of Q4 2014 sales), and NCSoft overall has taken a dip from previous quarters. http://i.imgur.com/ZPDKW2t.png (By Game) http://i.imgur.com/QRScRh0.png (Overall) I never imagined the sales for Wildstar would be that low. I wonder how much longer they will wait before switching to F2P or shutting the game down completely. (EDIT: These reports end in March, and do not reflect Drop 5 release. However, they do reflect Drop 4, which was heralded as creating a new "resurgence" within the game, where a few players claimed that people were returning in droves. Obviously, that wasn't quite the case.)

    Incorrect, year-over-year profits are actually up. You can't compare quarter to quarter in any business and make assumptions as to whether a company is living or dying. In FACT, the OPERATING PROFIT for the company is like $41M USD. Sorry, that's extremely healthy, I don't care what industry you're in. 

    Good job on missing how this is about Wildstar, not NCSoft as a whole. There's another thread about that.

    Wildstar sales were cut in half from Q4->Q1. There's nothing "good" about that, especially since it's operating under a loss.

    Yup! But, if we're talking in the context of Wildstar, the vision has been flawed from the beginning. P2P was a god awful mistake and "hardcore" is, similarly, flawed. I think that going B2P, or even F2P, will give them a bit of a boost. Overall, though, it's done like $50 million in sales. What was the development budget? Not sure. However, if they can convert to B2P or F2P then they could probably do better tan $50 this year. It wouldn't be the first time that a game company had to support a game on life support. Also, if there was no upside then you know NCSoft would pull the plug faster than a gold-digger. 

    I could be completely wrong, but I think the original budget was somewhere between $100-$150m.

    Wildstar is currently not-profitable and making less than CoH was when it WAS profitable. NCSoft will be doing something soon, I expect.

    Agree! IDK what the budget was either, but I wouldn't expect it to be much south of $100M. I think they're at least close to entering black with it, and Wildstar still has legs, as long as they don't decide to eff it up like making it less accessible and going to a super-premium model of like $50 a month, lol. 

     Q2 2014 revenue was about $25M; they also reported that the bulk of the $16M they spent that quarter in marketing was down to WS, there was $1M+ box production as well. Q3 $16m; Q4 just over $5M; this quarter $2.5M.

    Set against that you have a year's operating costs - this quarter is so bad that it may have made a loss.

    Development costs? 7 years + whatever NCSoft paid to buy Carbine who had been working on the concept part for 2 years. The old adage that time is money looms large.

  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,212

    I would give this game a try if the game was optimized at all since beta.  I also despise required linear questing.  If it was possible to solo or duo tougher named mobs or level off dungeon trash that has a rare dungeon wide drop.   Is the loot specific to the mob?  Or is it another boring universal loot table game?  Are there "named" mobs that have specific loot tables?

     

    If they optimized it and there is the option to avoid being ordered around by an NPC,  I would consider it.  

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