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[Column] General: Is PvP the New Fad?
BillMurphy
Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
AAA development is taking a back seat to small teams and niche games, and almost all of the attention-earners have one thing in common: PVP. This isn’t the first time PVP has come to save the MMO world, and we at MMORPG love us some player on player combat. But there’s something special going on when the year’s most exciting games each list it as their most prized bullet point. The question is, is this trend here to stay, and Crowfall and Camelot: Unchained -- harbingers of the future or just the latest fad?
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
Comments
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Unfortunately its that same over-reliance on PvP that causes those same games to fail. People forget that an MMORPG is supposed to be a virtual world, and in the absence of players, those game "worlds" (I use the term lightly) seem like nothing but a pointless backdrop and leave the players without something meaningful to work towards or even fight over.
The best PvP I've ever had to date still remains classic EverQuest if for no other reason than the fact that, with or without PvP, there was always something to work towards, and thus, so many things to fight over. The rivalry was intense and the drama was real. City sieging and territory control has never even come close to producing that atmosphere.
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
Pvp is easier to develop for because it is the one format that can be repeated nearly endlessly without burn out (if done right). The ONLY fad is the direction developers are taking to limit the cost of development pre and post production.
They decide:
- We can't do what Wow did.
- We aren't willing to do what UO/EQ did.
- We can copy successful formats that have the least development problems.
There are only a few of the indie developers targeting niche market they wish to fill the void that exists. This is why Pantheon, SotA and CU exists (perhaps Crowfall too as they were behind Shadowbane). Those pvp games I listed have a history long before this "fad" and can be excluded. Many more are simply doing what big developers do: they target an genre with maximum returns on investment.
There is no money making secret in PvP. A good game will make money. Pvp is simply easier to develop.
You stay sassy!
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Long term, 24/7, persistent PVP in any games that have it is usually the only emergent, unpredictable part of MMOs.
Players want these unpredictable, one-off, "that was awesome!" moments. Stories and quests are fine the first time through, but you need something other than predictable repetition of content, dungeons and raids for retention.
Not a fad, a trend in the right direction.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I've voiced for ages that the best mmorpg experience is one where everything is integrated seamlessly into the world. PvE should drive PvP and create it's purpose. This can only happen in a sandbox game where the PvE or lore driven world is the main focus.
The trend I hope evolves from this current "fad" (define as you will) is developers waking up to the fact that mmorpgs evolved from WISHING conflict from it's players within a large, primarily PvE world. The setting must exist for PvP to occur and and the setting is what drives PvP. In order for this to happen the game must target the right audience instead of whoring every player from every genre to maximize profits.
These developers are making a specific type of game. This is great. Now they have to learn that everything CAN exist together within one game and one world if the developer is willing to accept the specific player base they originally targeted. This is the only reason why old school mmos existed. They were allowed to exist before greed took over.
Old school mmos had both pve and pvp players. They did not have to be hardcore pvp play grounds most sandbox games today think must exist. The worlds were large enough for all play styles this to exist along with custom servers and most were accepting of the challenges. A developer must be willing to listen to someone crying over getting ganked and sharing instances and say to them, "This is not your game. Get the fuck out." In order for mmorpgs to return a developer must turn away some players. It will never happen without that.
You stay sassy!
PVP is very easy and costs very little to implement.I really wish gamer's would quit being impatient and quit supporting cheap game design,it only encourages the likes of Blizzard and 99% the rest to make cheap sloppy games.
Almost every single developer knows how to design a great game,but choose not to because they can get away selling crap like h1z1 or selling ships w/o a game like SC,or pvp oriented games with toss abilities in a hat because their too lazy to designclasses and balance/test them.
quit supporting thesevunfinished games,quit falling for early access bs and make sure there is a solid complete game supported by pvp.Don't pay for a pvp standalone product,those games are low budget freeware quality.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Some will do well, most will fold or just hang on with small populations. I think Crowfall and Camelot Unchained have a good chance, the rest of the lot seem to have no clue how to design a pvp based game. It is like a comedy of errors for most of these indie games. I feel sorry for the naive people who invested money in many of them.
PVP is not new in MMO's, UO the first major one was designed around it, but I think we have renewed interest because there has not been a very successful one in a long time. I think DAoC and EVE were the last really popular ones. A good pvp game is hard to design because you are always walking a fine line between the hardcore and the rest of the players. You must make it fun for all or the game will self destruct.
PVP is a group of Really Hardcore gamers that move from title to title. For the most part with the Exception of EVE PVP Hardcore players are the exception rather than the rule. Hardcore PVP requires hours of gameplay time that most people with families and kids cannot afford to expend. Some yes but most no.
Hardcore PVP players Tend to be Younger or if older like myself married to a spouse that games but does not have children. The priorities as we get older change because as your job titles grow with responsibility your social responsibility grows too. You can;t spend every free moment gaming anymore.
Agreed.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Lot of people being purposely obtuse in this thread.
The question of PvP being a fad is not asking if PvP in general is new or just being done now. No, PvP has always been around, always will be. But it IS trendy right now as it is showing up as the primary activity of many new games. The idea being that older MMO's (even though with a lot riding on PvP) were built to be worlds in which PvP also happened, whereas now games are being built from the ground up just to be PvP arenas with maybe a few things to do on the side.
They even mentioned stuff like UO which was a world in which PvP happened, vs Crowfall which is a PvP Moba with a handful of MMO elements. It is an important distinction to make.
Is PvP the fad in MMOs right now? I can't see why it would be. There are no good AAA pvp MMOs out right now besides EVE, this is a sad truth thats been carrying on for years. Crowfall and camelot unchained look promising but have nothing real to show.
I do think PvP is a fad however in other genres currently.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
" If you try to cater to everyone you won’t be able to truly cater to anyone because your team is stretched so thin working on different aspects of the game that rarely mesh with each other."
This statement is so true and proves why MMOs suck today. Because they catter to everyone even the 15 minute a week weekend warriors who want to feel special. Because if everyone feels special no one really is special. And no its not about o look that guy has a piece of gear I dont, its about look the reason why that guy has a piece of gear you dont is because you didnt get up off your ass and get it.
Now yes Time was a problem back in Vanilla WOW and TBC, I know I been there. However you didnt need LFR, or WOTLK Easy instances that were 15 minutes long to get more people into the end game. Kara did that very well, so did ZA. Today 8 and 10 man raids get enough people into the content to make it worth it. You just didnt need the rest of the content to be useless 1 month after the Xpac dropped. That made a lot of people bored and not want to run shit for the 30th time in a month. paced content like TBC was good enough but we wanted to get everyone in raiding. Now we made everyone important when we truly made no one important or Happy.
PvE focus is why the genre has stagnated. It's all been done. Nothing new or exciting. Group up, move out, don't stand in red.
PvP is the future of the genre.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Exactly. The pvp crowd isn't as big or influential as they like to think they are.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.