So people are going to be starting the game with whole armadas of ships while other people start with auroras.
When the average spending of people for pledge packages is slightly above 100 bucks (669,769 people with pledge packages, 78.516.390 $ in funds raised, average spending 117 $) , please explain where you get the idea that people will start the game with whole armadas of ships ?
Have fun
I don't get it... did you not understand the english behind the statement?
There's people who have spent a ridiculous amount of money and will have whole armadas on launch day... then there's people who will only have an aurora.
What on earth does the average spending have to do with it? Unless you think that ALL people will have a 117$ worth of ships on launch day.... and in that case where's the wormhole entrance to your universe of absolute equality in everything
Of course there will be "people with whole armadas" on launch day !
This is the new age of MMO's, where some people pay for "convenience" so that others can play for free. So you better hope there are many whales in SC, otherwise the game will fail very soon after launch.
Some of the wealthiest players will probably even employ teams of interns to fly their ships for them...
/s
Ya, but no one is playing for free. Everyone had to purchase the game.
I thought CR once said that subscribers wouldn't have any in-game advantages over non-subscribers?
Ya that was thrown out the window. Now its all about being P2W.
Ok.. explain to me how renting virtual spaceships designed after virtual spaceships in a game inside a game is P2W....
That word... it does not mean what you think it means....
I wish it were P2W, I´d totally buy premium ammo and indestructible ships!
Please Chris Roberts, make it P2W, and I´ll pay.. to finally WIN! And when you are at it, please tell me what exactly I can win in an alpha test - I´d take a weekend with Sandi as first prize!
I thought CR once said that subscribers wouldn't have any in-game advantages over non-subscribers?
Ya that was thrown out the window. Now its all about being P2W.
Ok.. explain to me how renting virtual spaceships designed after virtual spaceships in a game inside a game is P2W....
That word... it does not mean what you think it means....
Yep it does. AC has winners and losers, it keeps score, and even had leader boards. The funny part is that you didn't try and argue how SC is not P2W, just that there is no win. Something that is clearly false.
Its a sad state that SC is in, even those trying to say its not P2W can't argue that people are not purchasing advantages with real money. Instead they try and argue how you can't win, something that is so very easy to prove wrong.
I thought CR once said that subscribers wouldn't have any in-game advantages over non-subscribers?
Ya that was thrown out the window. Now its all about being P2W.
Ok.. explain to me how renting virtual spaceships designed after virtual spaceships in a game inside a game is P2W....
That word... it does not mean what you think it means....
Yep it does. AC has winners and losers, it keeps score, and even had leader boards. The funny part is that you didn't try and argue how SC is not P2W, just that there is no win. Something that is clearly false.
Its a sad state that SC is in, even those trying to say its not P2W can't argue that people are not purchasing advantages with real money. Instead they try and argue how you can't win, something that is so very easy to prove wrong.
Did i ever say anything about SC it self... The original post was about how REC is evil... the reply was.. it is P2W... And tpo that i wished to know how credits to run a training simulator inside a game is P2W...
SC it self is not well enough developed yet to even be able to be P2W... We actually need some win-conditions before it can become P2W...
But just to cover all the bases in-case the best part of people ran down.. yeah you know the rest.
SC have the POTENTIAL to be P2W as all come heck... But first there need to be a game to win...
I thought CR once said that subscribers wouldn't have any in-game advantages over non-subscribers?
Ya that was thrown out the window. Now its all about being P2W.
Ok.. explain to me how renting virtual spaceships designed after virtual spaceships in a game inside a game is P2W....
That word... it does not mean what you think it means....
Yep it does. AC has winners and losers, it keeps score, and even had leader boards. The funny part is that you didn't try and argue how SC is not P2W, just that there is no win. Something that is clearly false.
Its a sad state that SC is in, even those trying to say its not P2W can't argue that people are not purchasing advantages with real money. Instead they try and argue how you can't win, something that is so very easy to prove wrong.
Did i ever say anything about SC it self... The original post was about how REC is evil... the reply was.. it is P2W... And tpo that i wished to know how credits to run a training simulator inside a game is P2W...
SC it self is not well enough developed yet to even be able to be P2W... We actually need some win-conditions before it can become P2W...
But just to cover all the bases in-case the best part of people ran down.. yeah you know the rest.
SC have the POTENTIAL to be P2W as all come heck... But first there need to be a game to win...
And yet CIG are calling the game SC, not AC. No SC is already P2W, people have already purchased massive advantages in that game, and CIG are selling and will continue to sell in game credits.
And AC is currently P2W, with the best ships locked behind paywalls. The mode has winning conditions, and had leader boards. Are you saying that you can't win in CoD? Or LoL? or many other multiplayer games?
Arena commander is insanely P2W right now. It is in fact so P2W that this is all it is....
But... AC is still in development too.. just like SC... So no... It does not matter in the slightest. Once the game is released.. we will talk about that again if the problem persists.
But as i said THERE... NEED... TO... BE... A... GAME... first before we can call it P2W... Sure AC has some of the trappings of a game... But it is not a game unto it self... It is part of a larger system.
As i said.. I am not claiming that the finished product does not have the potential to be P2W, because it does... I am arguing that there is no product to win in at the moment.
I thought CR once said that subscribers wouldn't have any in-game advantages over non-subscribers?
Ya that was thrown out the window. Now its all about being P2W.
Ok.. explain to me how renting virtual spaceships designed after virtual spaceships in a game inside a game is P2W....
That word... it does not mean what you think it means....
I wish it were P2W, I´d totally buy premium ammo and indestructible ships!
Please Chris Roberts, make it P2W, and I´ll pay.. to finally WIN!
Go purchase a Hornet and wreck auroras, purchase a SH or any of the other top ships and do the same. Heck, purchase a subscription and have at it.
You guys have some odd ideas of what P2W means, just a hint, it does not mean "I win button".
there are countless videos of better pilots wrecking noobs in Hornets, so this is laughable
People can scream P2W all day long, 1. the alpha is for testing mechanics and you win nothing 2. the ship balance is in progress, -ALPHA- 3. If people can´t cope with being a tester, then FFS let it be and come back in a year
Tip for new backers: don´t get the 5$ Alpha pass then if you don´t want to help out testing and wait for launch instead
--> You mean I get a large advantage because I have a snow globe with a spaceship inside in my hangar and you do not ? I am UBER in the game because somewhere my name is used in the game ? THAT is P2Win in your definition ?
Are you pretending to not understand?
--> Are you pretending not to be able to read ? (List of subscriber benefits following)
You do have an advantage when you have a choice of many more ships to fly at launch because you payed more dollars than someone who has a mere Aurora.
--> Being a subscriber does NOT in any way allow you to have more ships than anyone else at launch. I can be a subscriber with only an Aurora. And will only have that Aurora at game launch. However, i would be able to TEST all available ships in my sim-pod with all the bonus REC units i got as subscriber. Which does NOT make those extra ships available to me at launch.
You have an advantage over them.
--> Yes. I have more snowglobes than them. And a few years worth of Jumppoint magazines.
How difficult is that concept to understand?
Are you saying that publishing houses MAKE you buy their game?
--> Yes. Its called advertising.
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry (at you).
--> Is the concept of advertising and how it works too much for you to understand ?
Are you saying that every single SC backer is happy with the development of the game?
--> No. Its simply not possible to make 867.348 people happy at the same time when some have mutually exclusive views on what this game should be.
Exactly,
--> You agree. So why do you claim things as being said when i did not say them ?
so stop exaggerating about the features of crowdfunding.
--> I described some of the reasons why people started to support the development of computer games via crowdfunding. I described some of the reasons why people were not satisfied with the way big publishers create many of the computer games these days. If you consider that an exaggeration ... go ahead ... its a free internet.
--> No one mentioned anything about "every single" ....
Then try and clarify it in what you write instead of characterizing every single published game in one sentence.
---> Again - its is only YOU that talks about "every single published game". I never said anything like that.
--> As no one claimed this for "every single published computer game", your sentence is a bit .... pointless ....
Yes you did. Maybe you should read what you typed.
--> I did read what i typed. You wont find "every single published computer game" in that post.
--> Please start making sense.
Please show me something I wrote and didn't make sense to you. I'll try and explain.
In many respects I agree with those saying that whether the current system is P2W or not doesn't matter (at this stage).
I think a lot of lame excuses get bandied around and as is typical with game development, WK's trot out the old "shut up it's alpha, it's beta, it'll get fixed" crap but what's ignored and what's important is 'actions speak louder than words, you start as you intend to finish, you get judged by your actions' and so on.
There are many things CIG could be doing to improve the situation and people's perception.
We're talking about PAY TO WIN, not just subscribers. Try and keep up.
--> Being a subscriber does NOT in any way allow you to have more ships than anyone else at launch. I can be a subscriber with only an Aurora. And will only have that Aurora at game launch. However, i would be able to TEST all available ships in my sim-pod with all the bonus REC units i got as subscriber. Which does NOT make those extra ships available to me at launch.
We're talking about PAY TO WIN, not just subscribers. Again, try and keep up.
--> Is the concept of advertising and how it works too much for you to understand ?
Yeah you say that publishers MAKE me buy their games because of their advertisments
hehehe
--> You agree. So why do you claim things as being said when i did not say them ?
When you give a simple characterization about every crowdfunded game and then give another simple characterization about every single published game, you are saying things you obviously don't realize. Stop exaggerating and throwing around pompous comments.
--> I described some of the reasons why people started to support the development of computer games via crowdfunding. I described some of the reasons why people were not satisfied with the way big publishers create many of the computer games these days. If you consider that an exaggeration ... go ahead ... its a free internet.
Yeah the way you typed it out, was exaggerated and wrong. Now you've started to add the words "some" and "many of" and are starting to sound more logical.
---> Again - its is only YOU that talks about "every single published game". I never said anything like that.
Yes you did. You talked as if all publisher-backed games are the same. They are not.
----> I did read what i typed. You wont find "every single published computer game" in that post.
You didn't say the words but the meaning was exactly the same. That's why I keep on asking you to stop exaggerating and try and be more specific.
---> I would. If I cared. Which i do not.
You obviously don't care enough to sit and write response after response..... oh wait ;/
I thought CR once said that subscribers wouldn't have any in-game advantages over non-subscribers?
Have you been following this game?
You have to know that is a lie right... right?
If you dont think this game will have monetary advantages you havent been paying attention.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
"This month’s Subscriber Flair is the Xi’An Khartu-Al ship model! This realistic ship model from Takuetsu Starships, the most trusted name in ship models, is the is the sixth in a collection of Star Citizen’s ships. Display your Khartu-Al with pride, and then collect other models to complete the display. Includes stand and collector’s box. What’s more, everyone who earned a Khartu-Al ship model with the $23 million stretch goal will ALSO receive a model for their Hangar. That’s a lot of scouts!
Takuetsu Starships is a leading die-cast model spaceship manufacturer based in Fujin City, Centauri founded in 2894. They hold the reproduction licenses from spaceship manufacturers and engineering companies such as RSI and Anvil Aerospace. Takuetsu are well known among collectors to make superior, highly detailed models. They produce perfect replicas of personal, commercial, military and even alien spaceships in various scales.
If you’re an active subscriber, the model should be showing in your hangar now. If you backed before $23 million, it will appear later tonight. If you subscribe over the weekend, the scout model will be in your hangar on Tuesday, April 14th!"
"Getting REC right is a matter of balancing; with 1.1, the system was generating too much REC... with 1.1.1, the early indication is that it's generating too little (we have more complex ways to measure/monitor this, but that's the word of mouth so far.) We will continue to change how it works until we have something that we're happy with: a level where it's both a challenge to earn new ships and weapons, but also rewarding enough that you keep playing. In short, it's the same thing you're seeing with every aspect of Arena Commander, from ship and weapon balance to the flight model to (gulp) controller sensitivity. The only constant in Arena Commander is that it's GOING to change.
I also want to stress that this isn't about money lost or gained. Certainly, a lot of sleazy social games traffic in the "just buy some gold to keep playing!" model, and we're always worried about that perception... but the vast majority of our crowd funding truly isn't coming from people stocking up on UEC or ship components (and to put a fine point on that thought, that's part of why we don't allow unlimited UEC purchases.)"
The current REC earnings are certainly like the dreaded 'freemium' model ala EA's Dungeon Keeper. I hope they change it sooner rather than later.
re. Ben's comment, I guess the easy retort is the "just because he says it, doesn't mean it's true" one. When you're selling jpegs for $250 I think it's a bit embarrasing to try and claim the high ground.
$25 a day and a max holding of $150 is the sleazy social gaming 'just pay some cash for gold' model, putting limits on it doesn't make it any less so.
"Getting REC right is a matter of balancing; with 1.1, the system was generating too much REC... with 1.1.1, the early indication is that it's generating too little (we have more complex ways to measure/monitor this, but that's the word of mouth so far.) We will continue to change how it works until we have something that we're happy with: a level where it's both a challenge to earn new ships and weapons, but also rewarding enough that you keep playing. In short, it's the same thing you're seeing with every aspect of Arena Commander, from ship and weapon balance to the flight model to (gulp) controller sensitivity. The only constant in Arena Commander is that it's GOING to change.
I also want to stress that this isn't about money lost or gained. Certainly, a lot of sleazy social games traffic in the "just buy some gold to keep playing!" model, and we're always worried about that perception... but the vast majority of our crowd funding truly isn't coming from people stocking up on UEC or ship components (and to put a fine point on that thought, that's part of why we don't allow unlimited UEC purchases.)"
Have fun
The funny part is that no one said that they get a lot from the VD store. So Ben ignores the real income and the real reason for limiting peoples REC income, and that is ship sales. Ship sales is the vast majority of CIG"s income.
At least the backers got CIG to release all the most powerful ships to all backers to rent, and not just sub's.
LOL so is that why CIG released it to only sub's? hahaha, they only changed it because of all the complaints.
Like in so many things .... subscribers get it first, the rest of the community a bit later. Another subscriber bonus ;-)
E.g. just check out the many articles that first appeared in the "Jumppoint" magazine (for subscribers) and then are published on the public CIG homepage a few weeks later.
Some people complain before they think ... or read ...
A few people see conspiracy theories were there are none .... but hey, if that keeps their boat afloat ....
>>>>>> Info from Will Leverett Game Support Manager CIG <<<<<<<
1) Early backers (who have a pledge with Alpha Access) will always have free access to all modules. 2) Late backers who had to buy an Arena Commander Module Pass will also need a Star Marine Module Pass. 3) Starter packages that come with an Arena Commander Module Pass will also need a Star Marine Module Pass.
I thought CR once said that subscribers wouldn't have any in-game advantages over non-subscribers?
People that subscribe to a game should ALWAYS have an advantage over someone that's a Buy to Play, player. I think your referring to a cash shop where you could spend unlimited amounts of money for an advantage.
Comments
Ya, but no one is playing for free. Everyone had to purchase the game.
Ok.. explain to me how renting virtual spaceships designed after virtual spaceships in a game inside a game is P2W....
That word... it does not mean what you think it means....
This have been a good conversation
I wish it were P2W, I´d totally buy premium ammo and indestructible ships!
Please Chris Roberts, make it P2W, and I´ll pay.. to finally WIN! And when you are at it, please tell me what exactly I can win in an alpha test - I´d take a weekend with Sandi as first prize!
Yep it does. AC has winners and losers, it keeps score, and even had leader boards. The funny part is that you didn't try and argue how SC is not P2W, just that there is no win. Something that is clearly false.
Its a sad state that SC is in, even those trying to say its not P2W can't argue that people are not purchasing advantages with real money. Instead they try and argue how you can't win, something that is so very easy to prove wrong.
Go purchase a Hornet and wreck auroras, purchase a SH or any of the other top ships and do the same. Heck, purchase a subscription and have at it.
You guys have some odd ideas of what P2W means, just a hint, it does not mean "I win button".
Did i ever say anything about SC it self... The original post was about how REC is evil... the reply was.. it is P2W... And tpo that i wished to know how credits to run a training simulator inside a game is P2W...
SC it self is not well enough developed yet to even be able to be P2W... We actually need some win-conditions before it can become P2W...
But just to cover all the bases in-case the best part of people ran down.. yeah you know the rest.
SC have the POTENTIAL to be P2W as all come heck... But first there need to be a game to win...
This have been a good conversation
And yet CIG are calling the game SC, not AC. No SC is already P2W, people have already purchased massive advantages in that game, and CIG are selling and will continue to sell in game credits.
And AC is currently P2W, with the best ships locked behind paywalls. The mode has winning conditions, and had leader boards. Are you saying that you can't win in CoD? Or LoL? or many other multiplayer games?
Arena commander is insanely P2W right now. It is in fact so P2W that this is all it is....
But... AC is still in development too.. just like SC... So no... It does not matter in the slightest. Once the game is released.. we will talk about that again if the problem persists.
But as i said THERE... NEED... TO... BE... A... GAME... first before we can call it P2W... Sure AC has some of the trappings of a game... But it is not a game unto it self... It is part of a larger system.
As i said.. I am not claiming that the finished product does not have the potential to be P2W, because it does... I am arguing that there is no product to win in at the moment.
This have been a good conversation
there are countless videos of better pilots wrecking noobs in Hornets, so this is laughable
People can scream P2W all day long, 1. the alpha is for testing mechanics and you win nothing 2. the ship balance is in progress, -ALPHA- 3. If people can´t cope with being a tester, then FFS let it be and come back in a year
Tip for new backers: don´t get the 5$ Alpha pass then if you don´t want to help out testing and wait for launch instead
How about you put a good pilot in that Hornet as well in order to make it a comparison worth mentioning.
..Cake..
In many respects I agree with those saying that whether the current system is P2W or not doesn't matter (at this stage).
I think a lot of lame excuses get bandied around and as is typical with game development, WK's trot out the old "shut up it's alpha, it's beta, it'll get fixed" crap but what's ignored and what's important is 'actions speak louder than words, you start as you intend to finish, you get judged by your actions' and so on.
There are many things CIG could be doing to improve the situation and people's perception.
..Cake..
You obviously don't care enough to sit and write response after response..... oh wait ;/
>>>
I am writing because someone does not stay true to the topic of the thread - which is bonus for SC subscribers.
Because someone wants to make a P2Win discussion out of it, AGAIN ...which got old about 2 years ago .....
Have fun
Have you been following this game?
You have to know that is a lie right... right?
If you dont think this game will have monetary advantages you havent been paying attention.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
What's up Captain Obvious!
You should probably read his prior posts within this thread, because you're looking mighty foolish at the moment.
New subscriber bonus for April:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//14650-April-Subscriber-Flair
"This month’s Subscriber Flair is the Xi’An Khartu-Al ship model! This realistic ship model from Takuetsu Starships, the most trusted name in ship models, is the is the sixth in a collection of Star Citizen’s ships. Display your Khartu-Al with pride, and then collect other models to complete the display. Includes stand and collector’s box. What’s more, everyone who earned a Khartu-Al ship model with the $23 million stretch goal will ALSO receive a model for their Hangar. That’s a lot of scouts!
Takuetsu Starships is a leading die-cast model spaceship manufacturer based in Fujin City, Centauri founded in 2894. They hold the reproduction licenses from spaceship manufacturers and engineering companies such as RSI and Anvil Aerospace. Takuetsu are well known among collectors to make superior, highly detailed models. They produce perfect replicas of personal, commercial, military and even alien spaceships in various scales.
If you’re an active subscriber, the model should be showing in your hangar now. If you backed before $23 million, it will appear later tonight. If you subscribe over the weekend, the scout model will be in your hangar on Tuesday, April 14th!"
Have fun
More dev info on REC from Ben Lesnick. I highlighted a part in green, because it discusses a topic often mentioned in this forum:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/4827090/#Comment_4827090
"Getting REC right is a matter of balancing; with 1.1, the system was generating too much REC... with 1.1.1, the early indication is that it's generating too little (we have more complex ways to measure/monitor this, but that's the word of mouth so far.) We will continue to change how it works until we have something that we're happy with: a level where it's both a challenge to earn new ships and weapons, but also rewarding enough that you keep playing. In short, it's the same thing you're seeing with every aspect of Arena Commander, from ship and weapon balance to the flight model to (gulp) controller sensitivity. The only constant in Arena Commander is that it's GOING to change.
I also want to stress that this isn't about money lost or gained. Certainly, a lot of sleazy social games traffic in the "just buy some gold to keep playing!" model, and we're always worried about that perception... but the vast majority of our crowd funding truly isn't coming from people stocking up on UEC or ship components (and to put a fine point on that thought, that's part of why we don't allow unlimited UEC purchases.)"
Have fun
The current REC earnings are certainly like the dreaded 'freemium' model ala EA's Dungeon Keeper. I hope they change it sooner rather than later.
re. Ben's comment, I guess the easy retort is the "just because he says it, doesn't mean it's true" one. When you're selling jpegs for $250 I think it's a bit embarrasing to try and claim the high ground.
$25 a day and a max holding of $150 is the sleazy social gaming 'just pay some cash for gold' model, putting limits on it doesn't make it any less so.
The funny part is that no one said that they get a lot from the VD store. So Ben ignores the real income and the real reason for limiting peoples REC income, and that is ship sales. Ship sales is the vast majority of CIG"s income.
At least the backers got CIG to release all the most powerful ships to all backers to rent, and not just sub's.
Not that CIG ever had the intention in the first place to make it available only to sub's.
So which "backers" you speak of "made em do it" ?
Have fun
LOL so is that why CIG released it to only sub's? hahaha, they only changed it because of all the complaints.
Like in so many things .... subscribers get it first, the rest of the community a bit later. Another subscriber bonus ;-)
E.g. just check out the many articles that first appeared in the "Jumppoint" magazine (for subscribers) and then are published on the public CIG homepage a few weeks later.
Some people complain before they think ... or read ...
A few people see conspiracy theories were there are none .... but hey, if that keeps their boat afloat ....
Have fun
Another reason to be an early backer :-)
>>>>>> Info from Will Leverett Game Support Manager CIG <<<<<<<
1) Early backers (who have a pledge with Alpha Access) will always have free access to all modules.
2) Late backers who had to buy an Arena Commander Module Pass will also need a Star Marine Module Pass.
3) Starter packages that come with an Arena Commander Module Pass will also need a Star Marine Module Pass.
>>>>>>
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/4909192/#Comment_4909192
Have fun
People that subscribe to a game should ALWAYS have an advantage over someone that's a Buy to Play, player. I think your referring to a cash shop where you could spend unlimited amounts of money for an advantage.