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Things that keep you away from "popular" MMO's...

KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685

Well, I'll start with EVE and continue later about other MMO's.

#1 EVE - The passive skill system that limits the pace of how quick I can train my skills through playing, which is truly hurting for new potential players in 11 year old MMORPG. Then the fact it's a group forced MMO, always have to depend on others, because it feels like whoever has the biggest numbers (zergfest) "wins" in the game, over whoever has the best equipment/ship. I doubt there is also any system in place giving me the tools to avoid such zergfests. Then there is the PLEX P2W system in place...

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] UncommonPosts: 0
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  • HowbadisbadHowbadisbad Member UncommonPosts: 453


    Originally posted by Kopogero
    Well, I'll start with EVE and continue later about other MMO's.

    #1 EVE - The passive skill system that limits the pace of how quick I can train my skills through playing, which is truly hurting for new potential players in 11 year old MMORPG.



    It is to help out casual players (the playerbase of EVE is old and most have jobs), just like how you have hard caps on how much you can do in WoW per week.



    Then the fact it's a group forced MMO, always have to depend on others,

    There are plenty of things you can do in EVE solo, there are plenty of things you can't do solo. It's an MMO and this is intended.



    because it feels like whoever has the biggest numbers (zergfest) "wins" in the game, over whoever has the best equipment/ship. I doubt there is also any system in place giving me the tools to avoid such zergfests.

    Of course having more players is a large advantage (as it should be), especially when they have just as good gear as you.

    It is completely possible to compete with corperations who have more people than you however. And there are very effective ways to deal with mindless zerg.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNUu75fH8Uc


    [quote]Then there is the PLEX P2W system in place...[/b][/quote]

    http://www.themittani.com/features/alod-go-back-wow?nopaging=1

    pay 2 lose more like it

    Waiting for:
    The Repopulation
    Albion Online

  • LaelapsLaelaps Member Posts: 2

    OP, Have you actually played EVE, or are you just guessing?  I'm not playing right now because it's a huge time suck and I have no self control, but I actually like the game for all of the reasons you just mentioned.  I would argue that the skill system actually ALLOWS new players to get into the game, since you have legitimate roles you can fill in fleet combat at a relatively low skill level, even if all you can fly is a tech-1 frigate.  As for zerg fests (blob wars, if we want to use EVE terminology), there are plenty of areas in the game where they are less of an issue.  Solo PVP is a thing in some areas, although it is usually a great deal more risky than fleet PVP.  And honestly, if we were to have a battle in real life, wouldn't numbers be an issue?  So why shouldn't numbers come into play in a game?

    Advantage from buying plex certainly exists.  I would argue, however, that the fact that EVE is an extremely high-risk game significantly levels the playing field.  Sure, you can dump a bunch of money in and buy a shiny ship.  Even if you have the skills to fly it, you're far more likely to blow it up and never see it again than you are to 'win' the game.  And it will probably have been blown up by a bunch of noobs flying tech-1 frigates, who have never spent a dime beyond their subscription.

    The only thing that really does hold new players back, imho, it is not the skill tree, not the blob wars, and not PLEX p2w (whatever 'winning' is in the EVE universe), it's the learning curve.  Figuring out EVE is more difficult than any other MMO I've ever come across. And that's frustrating, but it's a challenge.  And it's another reason I love the game.

  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,364

    With the current MMORPG market like it is, for me:

    FFA PVP, and Subs. ...

  • KaladinKaladin Member Posts: 468
    Originally posted by Kopogero

    Then there is the PLEX P2W system in place...

    That one got me to laugh the hardest.  Thanks for that.

     

    But to answer the subject line.  The lack of difficulty in popular MMORPGs.

    I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
    And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
    Hurt - Wars

  • HowbadisbadHowbadisbad Member UncommonPosts: 453

    [mod edit]

    Waiting for:
    The Repopulation
    Albion Online

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,026

    I've said this before ... I'd likely be a hardcore EVE player 20 years ago. I loved sci-fi (still do but in ways more associated with the human experience ... if not hyper-realism based on evolving understandings of astronomy, cosmology, etc) and played Star Fleet Battles hardcore so hard to tell if I'd like EVE as the space combat doesn't impress me.

     

    What keeps me away from popular mmos? I have general reasons and some specific to games. What I want to play:

     

    - A massively open mmo without hard lined progression paths. Not pure sandbox and certainly not voxel based. I want complex classes that keeps our interest. I want a living world where the players, npcs, mobs, etc create a dynamic world of content and not forced questing. I prefer original fantasy and even fantasy sci-fi hybrids over conventional fantasy. I am a huge fan of realistic and mature settings. Basically I want it to emulate a real world like what it attempted in pnp RPGs instead of emulating the mechanics of an RPG (the world is the GM ... I don't want a GM system). I miss games where guilds are part of and required for community building and not just there for help when you need it. Some interesting games may offer this in the near future. Waiting to see.

     

    Specific reasons for specific games:

     

    - Wow: Done with it ages ago. Most basic reason: Blizzard long ago abandoned the game I loved and turned it into something complete different. They NGE it each and every expansion but this is what they do ... they make games based on proven models for the masses. They have always done this and always will. This is why their current focus on a card game making more money per development hour than Wow. Wow will only ever become more arcade-like and move toward maintenance friendly systems. Blizzard is out of the mmo business for the most part.

     

    - ESO: ZOS can't hide their themepark approach well enough for me. Many great things in the game but it is also painfully easy and sadly rather boring.

     

    - TSW: I'll not bother to define it. Just tried it again recently. I still just can't get into it for long. I still think the skill system and characters simply don't grab me. Also is style of game I am getting bored with.

     

    - Swtor: played it a ton. Is the game I've played end game the most for recent mmos. Engine and it's limiting impact on content design kills it for me along with Bioware's apparent complete ineptitude when it comes to class balance. Really became sick of contributing and listening to class balance suggestions and then a patch comes out and the entire player base does a proverbial "WTF?!".

     

    - All the other themepark clones: Similar base reasons. FFXIV looks fun despite being the exact sort of game I am sick of. If I want to distraction I may try it. I know it won't hold my interest for long though. Wildstar is everything I hate about the direction of mmos since Wow. It isn't a matter of not wanting to play it ... I am flat out boycotting it.

     

    With summer approaching I have no interest in games meant to only waste months prior to newer games reaching beta for me to test. My target is for this fall. I hope to find an actual social mmo that grabs me and isn't 99% solo.

     

    I await a developer that has a grand vision of a world and wants to make it ... and that is their ONLY goal. More developers need to want to make a great concept and a great game. A good game will sell. Too many appear to want to make a game proven to make money which means a collection of proven systems compiled into a game. I can see right through this and it often distracts me from the game itself. I cannot share the vision as there was no artistic vision to begin with.

    You stay sassy!

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,985
    [mod edit]

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 Member UncommonPosts: 890

    Free-to-play games. No matter how good it is, I just can't enjoy a game that is needling me to reach for my CC constantly. 

    Consequence free pvp. If it's just a free-for-all, die-rez-kill-die-rez, what's the point? Go play COD or something.

    End-game which is doing giant time sink raids over and over and over in hopes of getting awesome gear that will be worthless the next xpac.

  • HowbadisbadHowbadisbad Member UncommonPosts: 453

    And to answer OP's question, I stay away from almost any MMO which doesn't feature loot drops on player death.

    Not being penalized for death is just the worst.

    Waiting for:
    The Repopulation
    Albion Online

  • BitripBitrip Member UncommonPosts: 279

    Browser-based. Free-to-play.

    image
    Now, which one of you will adorn me today?

  • DaikuruDaikuru Member RarePosts: 797

    Boring. 

    Boring.

    Boring.

    Boring.

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    - Albert Einstein


  • KaledrenKaledren Member UncommonPosts: 312
    The console feel. Meaning stories tailored to make "you" the hero and only savior. Stat boards, very easy gameplay, heavy emphasis on pvp, linear progression gameplay, map GPS...
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536

    Any time players working together or a need to group is brought up as a negative feature in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game I have to facepalm.

    I'd say this is the biggest thing that keeps me from playing popular MMOs today: the fact that the fundamental principle driving game design is one of convenience and accessibility INSTEAD of creating a worlds with danger and mystery where players need each other and communities therefore thrive.


  • ArtificeVenatusArtificeVenatus Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
    edited September 2015
     
    Post edited by ArtificeVenatus on
  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Member UncommonPosts: 1,199

    Quest based leveling

    Instancing of just about any kind

    (both things I consider major design flaws and warning signs of lazy developers)

    and, a lack of any kind of death penalty.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    1. Burn out

    2. Time

    3. Other games

  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
    Originally posted by ArtificeVenatus
    Originally posted by Kopogero

    Well, I'll start with EVE and continue later about other MMO's.

    #1 EVE - The passive skill system that limits the pace of how quick I can train my skills through playing, which is truly hurting for new potential players in 11 year old MMORPG. Then the fact it's a group forced MMO, always have to depend on others, because it feels like whoever has the biggest numbers (zergfest) "wins" in the game, over whoever has the best equipment/ship. I doubt there is also any system in place giving me the tools to avoid such zergfests. Then there is the PLEX P2W system in place...

    EVE Online's PLEX system is in fact P2W, but only if you consider it in and of itself. EVE actually has natural P2W Reduction Methods built into the game, which means the PLEX system is something other game companies should actually look at. The facts that it takes so long to build skills in order to use the best combat equipment even if you put enough money in, and that combat is group-centric even after you have overcome that hurdle (in other words, good luck going out solo with the most expensive ships and add-ons), means EVE did it right. 

    I'm quoting your post because I was going to discuss about the next MMORPG and why I stop playing: World of Warcraft and the "group-centric" thing you claim EVE also did it right. Let me tell you what I end up doing after playing these "forced grouping, or heavily grouping advantage MMO's over the last few years"

    World of Warcraft - I found myself spending 80-90% of my free time stuck in LFG queue, hoping to find not one but two players who a) were close to my current rating, b) were the right spec c) not expecting a carry from higher CR player than they were (I also didn't look for a perfect comp, but viable to push rating). Then the casual raiding that happened 2-3 times a week for a total of 5-8 hours.

    Path of Exile - Another heavily group based ARPG that has seen huge number of player base drop and I stop playing it mainly again for the same reason I stop playing World of Warcraft. In a permadeath league, finding likeminded individuals who are a) online, b) alive, c) close to the level is challenging itself. Then they had the Zana hideout thing where I can't even put my mission/map in public while I'm doing it. I'm not going to go over details on how much truly the game is favoring those who are group vs those who aren't, both for EXP/achievements. It's all there in the feedback forum section.

    I have a good reason why the last time I've spent $ on a new multiplayer game was 4 years and 3 months. After 14½ years of a rich MMORPG experience, yes I still play these modern F2P MMO's like PoE, Marvel Heroes Online as a filler up games, but there is absolutely no way I see myself spending $ on a product that imo pushes the genre backward based on my experience.

    In both Ultima online and Star Wars Galaxies I could do far more things SOLO. They allowed for individuals to outshine and overcome zergfests. I also had the tools to evade them as well. Examples: Ultima Online, mount movement was fast paced and even if I saw bunch of reds I could evade/separate them in the world because when they chased me they got separated and lost from one another. In Star Wars Galaxies as a light jedi knight I had force movement and I was also very powerful, something that SOE knew how to do right and reward exceptional individuals who've played their game avidly and put so much effort and sacrifice to finally be something truly exceptional, something that has truly been lacking in modern MMO's.

    If I'm forced to depend on somebody that may or may not be online/available I can't login at noon, midnight, 3/6 am or whenever and enjoy playing the game through character progression, which is the core of what MMO roleplaying games are about. If the mass market is casual and they choose to play the game for 10-20 hours that's their choice, but not all are casual and because someone else doesn't choose to doesn't mean I have to also do something else with my time and not enjoy playing the game.

    image

  • ArtificeVenatusArtificeVenatus Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
    edited September 2015
     
    Post edited by ArtificeVenatus on
  • WarlyxWarlyx Member EpicPosts: 3,364
    forced pvp , limited skills , and P2W, i can tolerate some if the game is good , but in the end im going to walk away.
  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699

    It's not just "popular" MMORPG's, it's the whole genre.  Single and multi player games simply do it better now.

    If I want an RPG, the single player counterparts offer a much better experience.

    If I want a game to build things there's Minecraft, Space Engineers, etc.

    If I want 1v1 PvP there's fighting games like USF4, KoF14, etc.  If I want team based PvP there's DOTA 2, LoL, etc.

    If I want open world FFA PvP there's survival games like 7 Days to Die, Rust, etc.

    If I want a never ending gear grind there's ARPG's like PoE, Torchlight 2, etc.

    What is the draw of this genre (popular or otherwise) anymore?  The awe of having lots of people next to you has worn off.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    • Gender-lock
    • Isometric view
    • Non-playable avatars, such as in EvE
    • Lobby hubs like GW1
    • P2W (forgot about this)
    Those are pretty much deal-breakers for me.  I'll still try them out, but i won't stay longer than a week.
  • kinartkinart Member UncommonPosts: 127
    "Popular" to whom? It's the people that a game is unpopular to, that it keeps them away too. Your question is self contradicting.
  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
    Originally posted by kinart
    "Popular" to whom? It's the people that a game is unpopular to, that it keeps them away too. Your question is self contradicting.

    Popular as in "well known" to the public, in this case particularly the MMORPG player base. Many choose not to play WOW/EVE/GW2/SWTOR/FFXIV for example but it's really hard not to heard or know about them.

     

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  • ArtificeVenatusArtificeVenatus Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
    edited September 2015
     
    Post edited by ArtificeVenatus on
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