Ah, yeah, so MMOs should follow deeply flawed class design with huge imbalances so you can be "immersed". All because it worked so well in the past and no game stepped away from such design.
Flawed class design is over homogenization and lack of diversity.
Flawed games designed for a generation where every child was told he was special and given a trophy for participation.
And yes, Everquest worked so well it is still alive, with 21 expansions, 16 years later, unlike modern games with their population collapses 2-3 months after launch.
Ah, yes, because "right" design is where youre "special snowflake" just for playing "right" class. rofl
EQ worked so well, thet when "worst MMO in history" released everyone jumped EQ ship. WoW ewas nothign more than EQ with (obvious) flaws removed. And it continued to evolve and today we have:
And rotations are not trinity exclusive, and fundamentally have nothing to do with trinity.
You can have trinity with only one button for each class (taunt/heal/damage), and you can have non trinity game with 852 skills and 351 button presses to get skill off.
He called the classes "the same".
The actual player experience is they aren't the same.
The trinity isn't responsible for making classes feel different. That's what the rotations do.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
And rotations are not trinity exclusive, and fundamentally have nothing to do with trinity.
You can have trinity with only one button for each class (taunt/heal/damage), and you can have non trinity game with 852 skills and 351 button presses to get skill off.
Yes, but these classes are being called "the same" because they all heal, or whatever. But when you actually play these games, the experience is they are not the same. The rotations make them different. The trinity isn't responsible for making two healers play differently.
They are same as far as trinity is concerned.
Tank is a tank, and will tank and so on.
Encounter doesnt change just because you play different class, and rotations are irrelevant. tank doesnt have healing or dps rotation, nor will mob ever do something unexpected, because trinity demands tight non changing beahvior (aka dumb AI)
Suddenly the poster child for the holy trinity is EQ...
The more you post, the more I wonder if you're a university experiment in bot AI or just Wizardry's drunken alt account.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Encounter doesnt change just because you play different class, and rotations are irrelevant. tank doesnt have healing or dps rotation, nor will mob ever do something unexpected, because trinity demands tight non changing beahvior (aka dumb AI)
Right, but that distinction is utterly meaningless as far as players are concerned. All players care about is that each class plays distinctly. The trinity establishes critical, distinct roles for each player to perform, and that's its one job and it does it fine.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You can use this same argument to support your preference of action MMO.
*Korean action MMO: 1,000,000,000,000+ (probably more, but who's counting at this point, a new MMO is announced every hour)
*Trinity MMO: 30
Your logic is infallable.....the more players -> the better the game....durr!!
Except all those who ate at MMOs michelin star and listened MMOs edit piaf jumped ship to MMOs Bieber.
So yeah, MMOs Bieber was better than MMOs michelin star and edit piaf combined. Or youre saying that vast majority of those who used to eat at michelins star and listened to edit piaf are some retards that cant tell left from right lol
So yeah, MMOs Bieber caused MMOs michelin star and edit piaf to vanish.
In fact, most of those who used MMOs michelin star and edit piaf saw them for what they really were, poor copies, "michelin star" was just napking with a star drawn on and "edit piaf" was poor imitator form some country region.
You can use this same argument to support your preference of action MMO.
*Korean action MMO: 1,000,000,000,000+ (probably more, but who's counting at this point, a new MMO is announced every hour)
*Trinity MMO: 30
Your logic is infallable.....the more players -> the better the game....durr!!
Except all those who ate at MMOs michelin star and listened MMOs edit piaf jumped ship to MMOs Bieber.
So yeah, MMOs Bieber was better than MMOs michelin star and edit piaf combined. Or youre saying that vast majority of those who used to eat at michelins star and listened to edit piaf are some retards that cant tell left from right lol
So yeah, MMOs Bieber caused MMOs michelin star and edit piaf to vanish.
errr no.
I listen to Edith Piaf at least weekly, I have never deliberately listened to Justin Bieber
I have eaten at the equivalent of Michelin 3 star restaurants several times in the last twelve months, I have not eaten at McDonald's in a very very long time.
I play tab-target MMORPG's I never play "twitch combat" MMO's.
Jusitin Beiber is already fading into obscurity, Edith Piaf will be listened to in a 100 years time.
McDonald's may last for quite a while yet but will eventually die, Michelin 3 star restaurants will be around forever.
You can use this same argument to support your preference of action MMO.
*Korean action MMO: 1,000,000,000,000+ (probably more, but who's counting at this point, a new MMO is announced every hour)
*Trinity MMO: 30
Your logic is infallable.....the more players -> the better the game....durr!!
Except all those who ate at MMOs michelin star and listened MMOs edit piaf jumped ship to MMOs Bieber.
So yeah, MMOs Bieber was better than MMOs michelin star and edit piaf combined. Or youre saying that vast majority of those who used to eat at michelins star and listened to edit piaf are some retards that cant tell left from right lol
So yeah, MMOs Bieber caused MMOs michelin star and edit piaf to vanish.
errr no.
I listen to Edith Piaf at least weekly, I have never deliberately listened to Justin Bieber
I have eaten at the equivalent of Michelin 3 star restaurants several times in the last twelve months, I have not eaten at McDonald's in a very very long time.
I play tab-target MMORPG's I never play "twitch combat" MMO's.
Jusitin Beiber is already fading into obscurity, Edith Piaf will be listened to in a 100 years time.
McDonald's may last for quite a while yet but will eventually die, Michelin 3 star restaurants will be around forever.
Who knows with MMO's?
EQ already faded away, so its even retarded to compare it to edit piaf. WoW OTOH will be remebered as THE great mmo of our age, EQ is lready remembered as very clumsy attempt at the game.
@Kiyoris just read my previous post, its stupid to quote myself just few posts later because people dont want to read (or more likely intentionally ignore facts)
EQ is lready remembered as very clumsy attempt at the game.
Yes, a game that is 16 year old and still going, a game that got multiple game rewards, a game that had more players at it's peak than 99% of the MMO currently out.
Good job showing how much you know about MMO.
How's that ArcheAge MMO working out? I heard people are jumping that ship after just one month.
QQ about cash shops and lack of community, sounds familiar....
EQ is lready remembered as very clumsy attempt at the game.
Yes, a game that is 16 year old and still going, a game that got multiple game rewards, a game that had more players at it's peak that 99% of the MMO currently out.
Good job showing how much you know about MMO.
99%? lol
let me see.
WoW
L1
L2
GW2
SWTOR
TERA
Aion
FFXIV
ESO
M&B
yup, all MMOs that matter have more players than EQ in its hayday, and thats unlikely to change. Im sure theres bunch of eastern MMOs to add to thelist.
OTOH EQ faded to obscurity when WoW launched. SoE even dragged Vanguard/POTBS/SWG around for years, and constantly losing money, to the point Sony tried to sell it for 10 years lol
EQ is lready remembered as very clumsy attempt at the game.
Yes, a game that is 16 year old and still going, a game that got multiple game rewards, a game that had more players at it's peak that 99% of the MMO currently out.
Good job showing how much you know about MMO.
99%? lol
let me see.
WoW
L1
L2
GW2
SWTOR
TERA
Aion
FFXIV
Good job, they're all trinity MMO based on EQ, except for GW2.
EQ is lready remembered as very clumsy attempt at the game.
Yes, a game that is 16 year old and still going, a game that got multiple game rewards, a game that had more players at it's peak that 99% of the MMO currently out.
Good job showing how much you know about MMO.
99%? lol
let me see.
WoW
L1
L2
GW2
SWTOR
TERA
Aion
FFXIV
Good job, they're all trinity MMO based on EQ, except for GW2.
Thanks for proving our point.
And? Where has anyone denied trinty is most prevalent lol. I myself pointed out quite a few times trinity "works" because its super simplistic (but that is also its major flaw), and if any MMO want to advance the genre it needs to rethink a lot of things, trinity included (just like GW2 did, they are pioneers in more than 1 area, and guess what? also WoW vanilla devs descendants)
Originally posted by Kiyoris Btw, you do realise that all of WoW's main creators were former EQ players right?
yup, they just removed obvious flaws of EQ at launch and less obvious during the years.
I myself pointed out quite a few times trinity "works" because its super simplistic (but that is also its major flaw),
Yes, "super siimplistic"...laughable.
You know who was WoW's creative designer?
He's called Alex Afrasiabi, he had the nickname "Furor".
Know what EQ guild he was in? Fires of Heaven.
Know why that guild folded? Because EQ was too hard for them to handle around Gates of Discord and their guild folded.
In one of your action MMO, they'd just buy some kind of potion in the MMO cash shop and revive.
"The introduction of this expansion in early 2004 was beset by numerous serious quality issues. John Smedley, President of Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) has described the release of this expansion as "SOE's worst mistake in five years".
Noone likes POS. In your "action mmo" you wouldnt get pos.
And he was quest designer in 2004. ironic really
But, i guess, imaginary arugments are you strenght.
Who said it was better? It's just the most preferred. As a result, there's money in booking Madison Square Garden for a Bieber performance, whereas booking it for Piaf (had she not died a year before MSG opened) wouldn't have made much financial sense.
It's only you that's going on about anything being 'superior'. Almost everyone else is just saying there are different choices.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
Where do you think the term originated?
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
The bible?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Ah, yes, because "right" design is where youre "special snowflake" just for playing "right" class. rofl
EQ worked so well, thet when "worst MMO in history" released everyone jumped EQ ship. WoW ewas nothign more than EQ with (obvious) flaws removed. And it continued to evolve and today we have:
WoW: 10 000 000
EQ: 10 000
Words are really redundant at this point.
He called the classes "the same".
The actual player experience is they aren't the same.
The trinity isn't responsible for making classes feel different. That's what the rotations do.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
They are same as far as trinity is concerned.
Tank is a tank, and will tank and so on.
Encounter doesnt change just because you play different class, and rotations are irrelevant. tank doesnt have healing or dps rotation, nor will mob ever do something unexpected, because trinity demands tight non changing beahvior (aka dumb AI)
The more you post, the more I wonder if you're a university experiment in bot AI or just Wizardry's drunken alt account.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Right, but that distinction is utterly meaningless as far as players are concerned. All players care about is that each class plays distinctly. The trinity establishes critical, distinct roles for each player to perform, and that's its one job and it does it fine.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
*McDonalds restaurants: 35,000
*3 Star Michelin restaurants: 200
Obviously...McDonalds is the better restaurant!
*Justin Bieber fans: 40,000,000
*Edith Piaf fans: 32,000
Obviously Justin Bieber is the better singer!
You can use this same argument to support your preference of action MMO.
*Korean action MMO: 1,000,000,000,000+ (probably more, but who's counting at this point, a new MMO is announced every hour)
*Trinity MMO: 30
Your logic is infallable.....the more players -> the better the game....durr!! Candy crush is the best game ever!
Logic out the window, who needs it anyway! Mash buttons!
Except all those who ate at MMOs michelin star and listened MMOs edit piaf jumped ship to MMOs Bieber.
So yeah, MMOs Bieber was better than MMOs michelin star and edit piaf combined. Or youre saying that vast majority of those who used to eat at michelins star and listened to edit piaf are some retards that cant tell left from right lol
So yeah, MMOs Bieber caused MMOs michelin star and edit piaf to vanish.
In fact, most of those who used MMOs michelin star and edit piaf saw them for what they really were, poor copies, "michelin star" was just napking with a star drawn on and "edit piaf" was poor imitator form some country region.
Ok, have fun in your button mashing action MMO then. When those games get any form of community, let us know.
Thank you, community is better than in any "old school" game, can you imagine, people hang out now because they WANT to not because they HAVE to.
Im sorry that you cant find anyone that wants to hang out with you, but thats not really games problem.
errr no.
I listen to Edith Piaf at least weekly, I have never deliberately listened to Justin Bieber
I have eaten at the equivalent of Michelin 3 star restaurants several times in the last twelve months, I have not eaten at McDonald's in a very very long time.
I play tab-target MMORPG's I never play "twitch combat" MMO's.
Jusitin Beiber is already fading into obscurity, Edith Piaf will be listened to in a 100 years time.
McDonald's may last for quite a while yet but will eventually die, Michelin 3 star restaurants will be around forever.
Who knows with MMO's?
show us an example of people trading in one of your action MMO
show us how great those communities in today's MMO are
this is an example of people in Everquest trading goods:
Here is another example for you.
Remember how we told you that in trinity MMO, not everyone can fulfill the same role?
Remember how you "depended on each other".
This is what happened in Everquest when one of those classes you depended on casted a mas group buff.
You know what all those people sitting together and talking to each other is called? A COMMUNITY
Know what today's MMO where everyone can solo, where MMO die within a few years, don't have? A COMMUNITY
EQ already faded away, so its even retarded to compare it to edit piaf. WoW OTOH will be remebered as THE great mmo of our age, EQ is lready remembered as very clumsy attempt at the game.
@Kiyoris just read my previous post, its stupid to quote myself just few posts later because people dont want to read (or more likely intentionally ignore facts)
Yes, a game that is 16 year old and still going, a game that got multiple game rewards, a game that had more players at it's peak than 99% of the MMO currently out.
Good job showing how much you know about MMO.
How's that ArcheAge MMO working out? I heard people are jumping that ship after just one month.
QQ about cash shops and lack of community, sounds familiar....
1 month VS 16 years....yah
99%? lol
let me see.
WoW
L1
L2
GW2
SWTOR
TERA
Aion
FFXIV
ESO
M&B
yup, all MMOs that matter have more players than EQ in its hayday, and thats unlikely to change. Im sure theres bunch of eastern MMOs to add to thelist.
OTOH EQ faded to obscurity when WoW launched. SoE even dragged Vanguard/POTBS/SWG around for years, and constantly losing money, to the point Sony tried to sell it for 10 years lol
Good job, they're all trinity MMO based on EQ, except for GW2.
Thanks for proving our point.
Btw, you do realise that all of WoW's main creators were former EQ players right?
And? Where has anyone denied trinty is most prevalent lol. I myself pointed out quite a few times trinity "works" because its super simplistic (but that is also its major flaw), and if any MMO want to advance the genre it needs to rethink a lot of things, trinity included (just like GW2 did, they are pioneers in more than 1 area, and guess what? also WoW vanilla devs descendants)
yup, they just removed obvious flaws of EQ at launch and less obvious during the years.
Yes, "super siimplistic"...laughable.
You know who was WoW's creative designer?
He's called Alex Afrasiabi, he had the nickname "Furor".
Know what EQ guild he was in? Fires of Heaven.
Know why that guild folded? Because EQ was too hard for them to handle around Gates of Discord and their guild folded.
In one of your action MMO, they'd just buy some kind of potion in the MMO cash shop and revive.
"The introduction of this expansion in early 2004 was beset by numerous serious quality issues. John Smedley, President of Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) has described the release of this expansion as "SOE's worst mistake in five years".
Noone likes POS. In your "action mmo" you wouldnt get pos.
And he was quest designer in 2004. ironic really
But, i guess, imaginary arugments are you strenght.
Who said it was better? It's just the most preferred. As a result, there's money in booking Madison Square Garden for a Bieber performance, whereas booking it for Piaf (had she not died a year before MSG opened) wouldn't have made much financial sense.
It's only you that's going on about anything being 'superior'. Almost everyone else is just saying there are different choices.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre