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Jason Appleton from Greed Monger, stealing $100,000 KickStarter funds?
Deriums
Member Posts: 38
I'm the Community Manager at the Greed Monger forums.
Currently there are no Devs working on the game and the owner, Jason Appleton has done nothing but have a public meltdown. He is blaming everyone but himself. As it currently stands, over 2 years later. He has yet to fulfill ANY of the legal obligations of running a KickStarter. And currently it looks like he has no plans to.
As of right now, this is the only stickied thread on the General Forums.
YouTube video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpNjOG0dF-I
He has so far banned James, the old lead dev of the game. I lifted the ban, but I expect him to ban him, and strip me of my title as well.
If you donated to this game, please don't just give up. His entire staff is fighting for what's right.
I fully expect Jason to threaten me, seeing that's just how he does things. But if we do not kick up a fuss over this, then he will silently exit with over $100,000 in funds.
We are dealing with a man who had his lead developer work for free, on the back of a promise that he will get a percentage of the profits. Then he threatened to sue if he quit. Meanwhile Jason has opened other businesses. I wonder where he got the money for that?
Please feel free to ask me any questions that you may have. I also will stand firm in my belief that none of this is the fault of James (lead dev). Jason's ego is just too big to admit he got into a project that he can't handle.
You can read a lot more about this here:
[12/5/2012 11:05:49 PM] James Proctor: To get it done in a reasonable time it's going to take a team twice this size... Takes AAA companies with hundreds of people 4+ years just to release a MMO...
[12/5/2012 11:06:08 PM] Jason Appleton: No it wont. I've done my research man
[12/5/2012 11:06:27 PM] Jason Appleton: Early on I didnt know for sure. But I've been reading on gamasutra and other resources
[12/5/2012 11:06:48 PM] Jason Appleton: For the kind of game we are making it shouldn't take that long, not with the assets and tools we have available
[12/5/2012 11:06:08 PM] Jason Appleton: No it wont. I've done my research man
[12/5/2012 11:06:27 PM] Jason Appleton: Early on I didnt know for sure. But I've been reading on gamasutra and other resources
[12/5/2012 11:06:48 PM] Jason Appleton: For the kind of game we are making it shouldn't take that long, not with the assets and tools we have available
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Well played, sir.
Was just over at the official forums. The struggle is real.
there is a 10 page thread that I linked to with a lot of information on it that the lead dev was posting. And I assaulted the video with as much screencaps and links as I possibly could. I also stated that I want to apply pressure to him so he will do the right thing. After all, one of his staff did say there is no way this game will be finished. I know it's a tall order to accuse someone of. but it's shaping up that way, and I do not want to see that happen.
and I know you're not defending him, and I do appreciate the looking out for me/us.
We dont know because Appleton has been hiding and wont come out to play. It looks like a scam and he isnt answering for it.
Anyhow, im not going to discuss it here. This thread has a lifespan of about an hour. I am tired of mmorp.com closing every GM thread. This could have been resolved a very long time ago but mods did an incredible job of hindering real discussion.
Yeah I know. Everyone knows. The video the OP linked mentions it. And greed monger discussion is allowed here, the forum was pulled. The problem is, its a total waste of time to type anything out which is going to be deleted and the thread locked anyhow- Which always happens.
That is the thing about Kickstarter. You give them money and they do not have to give you anything and they don't even have to develop a game. They can just say, Sorry it wasn't going to work and walk away.
This is why Kickstarter is a scam waiting to happen.
Funny thing... I used Greed Monger as an example of how KS can be used for scams in another thread here a couple of weeks ago and I got a PM from James telling me it was still being developed. Poor guy was trying to keep it alive all by himself but even he eventually reached his limit.
Working on % of profits is not that unusual in the indy world - my own son did just that coding a game part time while he worked on his masters. The game is doing quite well @ Steam so he has seen over $100K for his 10% so far. But then the lead dev is a close friend of his with a good track record. Working strictly on % of profits is not something that should be done for just anyone,
Sounds like James got burnt even more than any KS backer by Applebum.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I think that the old Kickstarter Terms of Service are stricter than the one quoted by OP. The new terms were updated to allow project creators explain what was done with the money in case they failed. The old terms simply stated that "Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill". Appleton's company for creating the project has obligation to either complete the game or to refund money. Backers don't need to prove anything to get either the game or everything that can be get from Electric Crow games when it goes bankrupt.
Beyond that it's a more shady area. Appleton informed his backers in Kickstarter that "Appleton has already committed to providing the financial resources for the project". It means he's left the door open for backers to also sue him personally, not just his company, if that promise was not fulfilled.
People are so desperate for work that they will do anything... here we have game developers out of work afraid to quit a job that pays nothing... time to find another line of work.
This is officially worse than Mortal Online and Starvault... Never thought I would see the day... but this takes the cake!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The thing about kickstarter and other sites like it is that you are volunteering the money and taking it on faith that it will be developed. It is why I highly recommend against giving more than $50-$100 to a project.
It's not technically against the law. If it was then wall street wouldn't work. You risk your money, and sometimes you lose.
Now on the grounds that he had people doing work for free to get paid based on a portion of the profits... it's possible he may get away with that if those people signed a contract with him. If not, then its he said she said and a possible court case in the making as he can be sued.
I recommend consulting a lawyer.
People are really stupid with their money on the internet, whether it's backing some kickstarter game, giving money to youtubers or F2P games or mobile apps.
People really need a wakeup call and to be ripped off to wise up a bit, so I'm glad if this guy ripped off 100k.
I hope he posts pics of him living it up with all the money.
To a degree this... it doesnt matter how promising a game looks, you're basically investing in a product with no real business plan / timeline / shareholders to keep the company accountable (well technically the kickstart funders are dumb shareholders) and the reason i say that is, why would you invest money into something with no monetary return, just an empty promise your game might get completed at some point and you get some cool digital rewards to go with it.
I dunno, maybe it's just the point of view from someone who actually holds shares in multiple companies and makes money off it.. If a kickstarter was offering me shares in the game company with access to Dev / Board meetings, quarterly dividends and forecast growth with possible profit share. I'd probably be inclined to sink some $$$ into them.
It's all about calculated risk.
This is the kind of thing that bothers me about Kickstarter projects. There is no guarantee you're ever going to get what you paid for, and you're trusting a random person to be completely honest with you about what they're doing. And as we know, most people are not the honest types (especially when it comes to making money).
You have so many kickstarter projects out there, and so many of them have rather seemingly unattainable goals and claims. But you have so many people with disposable income (mostly young people with few responsibilities I suspect) willing to throw money at any claim they think is "cool" at the moment. Then you get situations where the person is dishonest and can in fact just walk away with the money paid to them. The only recourse is to try suing then, I suppose. I wonder just how effective that is...
I think indie studios are great, and the level of innovation in them is typically so much higher than something in a major studio. They have much less to lose from their ambitions. But these Kickstarter projects are so unpredictable, still a rather new system, and very much unproven. It seems a magnet for scammers, liars, and lazy "developers" who couldn't actually get funding for their project, put a legitimate team together, or possibly even have the skills needed themselves to undertake the project.
I'm still pretty worried about how a project like Star Citizen is going to turn out. The amount of money they've been raising is astounding, and I'm just not sure they'll be delivering a product that matches expectations and budget. Different subject matter, but I just mean to say that Kickstarter projects offer a whole host of scariness to them in their unreliability.
According to that other guy, 50k went into servers, and another 40k out to contractors, I doubt he's sitting on stolen money...
This is why you do your research for Kickstarter and try to back people with good reputations. That's how Star Citizen is doing so well and they already have a game to show for it. Same for Camelot Unchained.
Okay mmorpg.com , I like you again =P
...For now.
Good article and information here.
-Time for the pressure to be put on jason Appleton. We need answers and he needs to face up to this.
http://www.indiedb.com/company/interdiction-studios-llc
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jeff-clark/29/59/666
Jeff Clark
CEO and Founder at Interdiction Studios
http://www.interdictionstudios.co/
It was evident early on that Greed Monger was a bad risk. The more that came out about it's development, and Appleton's nature, the more warning bells should have been ringing. For a number of folks, it was clear. Kickstarters/Crowdfunding definitely comes with the Caveat Emptor designation.
Hope the new guy didn't pay much for it. No reason Jason's big head should get fed. Sadly, this is not really an isolated occurrence in the gaming world.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
big deal, money is long gone, gullible backers thought they´re getting a MMO made for 30,000 $
hahaha
you can´t even get an MMO launcher made for 30K
100K isn't a lot to live on and his rep is going to sink so far that you will have to dig 1000 ft down just to catch a whiff of its mouldering corpse. Good luck finding any work in the industry again or being trusted to handle money as a McD cashier after this, hope it was worth it :P