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There is no Accountability for Game Developers
Krimzin
Member UncommonPosts: 687
As a long time MMO player, I've seen developers come and go. The current market is nothing more than a Smash and Grab Robbery. They come out with a new game, give it a founders pack with early access to get you hooked then make a shit game.
The worst is when you have a sub game that has long subscription options 6-12 months or more, then the game goes free to play.
Now its even worse with the new crime.. Crowd funding. What a joke. Hey give me your money and in a few years when we go live you can play it. Sad part is, there are 1000's of people willing to pay for the chance of taking part in a game they have very limited knowledge of.
In the current market its been proven that you don't have to make a good game to get paid. There are numerous examples out there.
What happened to Developers who are in it to make a solid game along with making money.
Comments
*ding ding ding*
As far as accountability goes. Who actually has some? I remember this time I bought Diego backpack for one of my kids (cuz that's what kids wanted at the time). When I opened it up there was a FREAKIN' KNIFE IN IT!!!! Not like a plastic one, like a F$#@ING SHARP and REAL packing knife.
I immediately called the company and they took down my information and acted mildly concerned before telling me they would definitely look into it.
Unfortunately if a lack of accountability is a big deal for you, then life is going to be a real let done. That being said, if you're someone who actually IS accountable for your actions, good on you! That's a great trait to have and more uncommon that you'd believe.
Crazkanuk
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
- Albert Einstein
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
I agree with OP.
There's a balance between allowing business as much freedom as possible, while at the same time making sure that underdelivering won't be a viable way to make profit.
Kickstarter, Early access, etc. would be good tools, but right now our consumer protection is lagging behind and it's creating a situation where companies aiming to grab cash and deliver inferior products can succeed and thrive just as well as companies making great products.
Better consumer protection would be good, because every dollar lost to cash grabs quickly turns into 2 dollars that won't be given to good products because the people get disappointed and won't trust even those devs who do their best to give us as good game as possible.
Why the fuck should someone know the difference between a publisher and a developer in order to purchase a game?
I though we were buying products and services from them, not working for them. Making an educated purchase should mean you've spend 20 minutes reading some reviews and watching a trailer. If more research than that is needed for purchasing something as simple a game then that game is not worth purchasing because it's too much work.
Your first part is just common practice that developers come and go. The only one "accountable would be the game company as a whole.
If ap person buy's a founder pack or early acces and feel the game is shit I suspect that person did not read what he was actually buying. Else he or she would have known.
Now with the new "crime" serieusly?
What the current market might have taught some people is that others might have different taste, like other things, play differently. A poor made game would actually be a game nobody is going to play. But on these forums that seems not the case as people asume just because they themself feel something is a poor game everyone else should feel the same way. Some even go as far as making topic not understanding why some games are enjoyed.<not in reference to OP)
I truly believe regardless what gamecompany that developers alway's try to make a solid game. But developers are only a part of a game, surely the most important part but there are more people involved that might prevent that developer to excel.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Developers are forever haunted by their "mistakes" by communities like this one.
How many people still fault/hate Smed for the SWG CU & NGE?
How many people still fault/hate Paul Barnett for Warhammer?
Richard G for Tabula Rasa?
Brad McQuaid for Vanguard?
Probably more I can't remember.
Any dev who attaches their name to a game risks their reputation on said game. I'd call that accountability.
If you idiots buy the same crap over and over again from the same cheats, well that is your fault.
Now let us list other producers of entertainment that have no accountability...
Movie studios
Tv show producers
Music producers and record companies (not to mention the product... ahem i mean artists)
Marvel/DC
The entire XXX sector
Netflix
Blockbu... Oh yeah sorry...
Why do people keep on ignore the fact that games are a biz like any other... Not a altruistic endeavour...
This have been a good conversation
Developer accountability...you mean their job surely. So when a game sucks and goes out of business that dev loses their job.
I think the game industry is one of the few that IS actually accountable for their products since it is very senstive to product success or failure determining if a company can continue onto their next project. The industry is expensive to create AAA productions with very long production cycles with plenty of room for error. Not many developers can scape by on more than 2 failed projects.
Sure some can get by from game launch to game launch with slick marketing and a decent enough game for sales...but the real problem you seem to have is what other people do with their money from your jab at F2P and Crowdfunding.
Who cares what others do with their money? If people support a "bad" developer or game let them do as they please!
Lets play a little game ourselves about judging other peoples expenditures as worthy and unworthy filtered by our own personal tastes much like you are applying to what you consider Smash and Grab robberies from games going F2P or seeking crowdfunding.
Your car! The beast! You love it, I can tell because you have a picture of it for your avatar and in your signature.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img837/6252/nm6m.jpg
I however think it is too flashy, over priced and pretty wasteful due to speed limits or even gas consumption. Sad part is, there are 1000's of people willing to pay for cars like that and don't even race them at a track!
That said, ^^^ is just an example of how personal taste filters for hobby based purchases, be it sports cars or video games, are difficult to state opinion as factual.
Oh and your car is nice, and I am delighted that you take pride in something you seem to have spent alot of time and money on.
I am just worn out of seeing so many threads bash others for what they spend their money on
They can be the same entity example SOE ,SQUARE ENIX,Blizzard need i say more?
What does publisher/developer have to do with accountability?
NO matter who makes it or publish's the game,there still should be some form of accountability.There should NEVER be a system where you take a person's money and just say thanks.
Developer's HIRE internal testers,pay THEM money,so why should gamer's pay THEM to test THEIR products?
Also why should a developer get 70 million FREE money,get some good lawyers,defer it into quarters and likely pay VERY little tax and not have some accountability for YOUR money.There is a whole list of games on Steam that had a nice idea and a nice early access,so called ALPHA game,then disappear,no more content,it is like the developer died.
There should be disclosed expenditures,i bet Robert's has his wife,family,relatives all under the payroll of YOUR money that is suppose to be going to the game.
In real life,if you invest money to someone or an entity,you expect something in return that involves money or some thing similar,NOT a game,"here you can play my game now" lmao..This is why this new wave of money grabbing is so popular,it is a no lose for the developer,tons of downside for the people handing over money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Because no QA team can match what a few thousand people randomly do. Should they let you do it for free... Sure... But my bet is that the conversion rate from burnt out tester to customer on long projects is pretty poor. Also mass testing is not exactly free either... Servers, server techs, support, bandwidth, electricity, qa/support and so on.,.. It all cost money.
Ok the first part... If they work for the company they should get paid like everyone else. If he can support his family on his pay without them working.. good for him... Your statement make no sense.
But in real life you are not a INVESTOR in the game industry... Heck even for SC you are a customer... No matter how they spin it to make you feel better. You buy a product, or in the case of SC you pre-pay a product.
You... Are... A... Customer... You only expected return is the product you paid for... Heck in the case of most Crowd-funding/Kickstarter you are not even a customer... you make a donation... So in reality you are not really entitled to anything. You can expect ZERO return. Not even a product as you have not bought anything per se. (now most CF sites have a policy that protects you from that aspect)
But you are not a investor, you are not a shareholder, you are not a venture capitalist... You are a customer... No matter if they call it a "founder" or a "early adopter"... And that is the naked truth.
This have been a good conversation
don't forget to add the entire software sector
phone/internet/cable companies
marketing companies
insurance companies
banks
most world governments
I would say that the current developer landscape is proof positive that there is accountability for GDs.
No more big money is flowing in to produce MMOs, and they have had to resort to begging.
Massive shift to F2P models after the community shunned the concept of a sub. Not because subs are bad, but because THEY AREN'T PRODUCING GAMES WORTH A MONTHLY FEE.
Pure market accountability at work.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
That doesn't invalidate his point at all. Don't fall down the rabbit hole of corrective spelling and terminology when reading peoples posts. You know the point he's trying to make this isn't a test and your not the teacher.
And if you want to get technical allot of games these days are self published in a way not the traditional publishing methods where the developer is funded and the publisher has design control. Or they are kickstarted. In both cases the developer has total control over content. And the burden of success or failure is squarely on their shoulders.
Seconded!
And eloquently stated, I might add!
My favorite statement here was when Wizardry said that these people "Take" your money.
Sorry guys but actually, that is you, giving it to them. And if you don't give it to them, then they are accountable for that.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
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The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
Everything that is "wrong" with MMOs is the fault of the consumer--games in general actually. When gamers stop buying games the day they come out; instead waiting 1-6 months, the industry will have to make better products or lose money on games.
People still don't get it. MMOs make more money in pre-sales and first weeks buys then they do in the next 12 months of subscriptions. Collectors edition + 3 month game time = not giving a shit if people play for 3 years because I recoup my investment quickly and then spit the FTP/BTP model out for one more cash grab.
Edit: This is capitalism. Money is king and the only power any consumer has is where and when they choose to their money. We, as consumers, have far more power and squander it regularly.
--John Ruskin
I agree that the trend of early-access payments, crowd funding, and now even sub-options for games that are not even in alpha is weird to say the least. However, I think devs have greater accountability than what is demanded in many other jobs. Basically their jobs depend on making games that sell well, or at least do ok.
Similarly to running your own business I imagine it is quite a stressful position that people choose to do because they prioritize pursing their dream over getting a steady comfy job.
I have seen many threads with people saying devs are just out for cash grabs and so forth, but the effort and risk involved in creating a mmo is not something any sane person would go through just for a quick cash grab. That doesn't mean there aren't ratbags that are just trying to scam you, but to claim the whole market is doing that is unfair.
That's my strategy, I wait till the dust has settled. Don't care if I am not there when it launches or if I fall behind on the leveling/gear grind.
If the game is good it will be ok after 3-6 months, if not, I will hear it and save my $60 for something else what is worth it.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"