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Crowdfunding MMO won't be sustainable the way it's done right now.
CalmOceans
Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
I don't think crowdfunding and Kickstarter projects will be sustainable nor do I think backers will keep putting up with so little oversight, so little protection and so little power.
I've read an article that said that crowdfunding is much less successful than a few years ago.
We have started to see corwdfund sites getting sued, even governments have sued: http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/kickstarter-fraud-state-sues-failed-projects-creators-n95951
I don't know of a single MMO project on Kickstarter that has actually materialised. Yet I see many asking for money.
The whole idea that one side will be paying for the bill, and the developers hold no responsibility, nor is there any oversight or protection, nor any return on the investment for the investor, the backer, is something that has never worked in the real world. This is something that just won't last.
I made an infographic about why I think it's such a flawed business model, easier than trying to explain it.
Comments
The link in my signature
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/172837/Kickstarter_success_rate_for_games_even_lower_than_initially_reported.php
That's all games, not just MMOs
Thank you for the link.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Why don't they just sell the DLCs after the game is done?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Must be nice for the investors, having dupes at kickstarter throw free money to a project that you're going to get return on investment for.
One thing I've learned after seeing what I believed using MMOs as a way to generate capital without delivering a working product (Fallen Earth, Darkfall?, SGW, so many disasters) and watching all this "Early Release" nonsense on steam is that no game or game developer will get a single red cent of mine without delivering and publishing a product worth my money.
Kickstarters?
LOLZ
You couldn't sell your idea to the idiots in suits, so you're going to sell them to the idiots at their computers. More power to you!
But the MMO community's sense of entitlement was beyond comparison when we were only shelling out 15 bucks a month for access to a game.
What is going to happen when they feel a game isn't living up to impossible hype and expectations when they have PUT MONEY UP FRONT to see it come to fruition?
I like the idea of developers finding unconventional ways to fund their games so they don't have to answer to a bunch of businessmen and make what they want.
But have they really thought through what it's going to be like to answer to us? Sure they have, they got your money already who cares, LOLKTHXBYE!
Mark my words, this is going to make an already toxifying community just that much worse.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
The article is about how many kickstarters gets funded, not how many of them gets completed. Below is a list of completed games that received more than $75k in funds. I would argue on a few cases, but in most cases it holds true.
Spreadsheet
What you notice is that quite a lot of them deliver a game but they are generally awful at reaching the date they originally pointed out. Crowdfunded MMO's are the worst on this, not one has been completed so far. However, games like the repopulation, pathfinder online, shroud of the avatar, camelot unchained, star citizen is in a playable alpha, but they are way behind on schedule, and its a question if they can deliver on all their promises.
The questionable thing about kickstarter MMO's is that you can't make a serious MMO with less than $1M, you probably need at least $5M to actually deliver a decent finished game, and they are gambling your money on finding external investors as time goes by. You also have no idea how they will monetize your game, and we have seen questionable behavior from a few developers.
There are lots of reasons to support indie kickstarter games and lots of good games happened because of it, but I am very skeptical when it comes to mmorpg's.
Money up front
Less begging
The Devs would use the Kickstarter numbers to show if the DLC is worth the time and effort.
of course its not sustainable since its not working that way.
I guess your "pyramid" infographic wasnt enough to tell you not to meddle with things you clearly dont understand.
Until then ill continue to play best games released in 2014 and 2015, W2 and POE which wouldnt exist without KS and are HUGE success, in fact those were so successful even publishers decided to move into the territory (legends of sword coast)
I am not a fan of kickstarter programs, I will never throw my money away like that, but if people have too much then they can spend, I am not stopping them lol.
Spending money on a MMo does not mean a good quality, Just look at some big companies for example SOE with a Star Wars license and Funcom with Age of Conan and what they did with their budgets.
That said: a LOT of MMO teams are under the influence of investors, who want to see a released product asap with as much money revenue as possible. What the fans want/quality of the product: "not important."
There are some developers who are old school and want to create a fantastic game according to their ideas but do not want those investor sharks breathing down their necks asking where there money is.
So I think kickstarters are a good idea for developers with unique ideas, but all too often it looks like a moneygrab, like SC is turning into.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Kickstarter will never see my money.
This happened just 2 weeks ago:
"BBB Warns Customers as Seeming Kickstarter Success EZ3D Fails to Deliver on Crowdfunded 3D Printers
As of today, March 12th, 2015, the Better Business Bureau has received 22 complaints coming from 14 US states, Canada, and even the Netherlands…because the Phoenix 3D printers just aren’t shipping. With nearly 700 comments on the Kickstarter campaign page reporting similarly, the outcry is only getting stronger as months pass without any units shipped, announcements from the company, or even emails or phone calls answered. (Note that as of the time of writing, the company’s website appears to be having difficulties with privacy certificates; click/load at your own risk.)
EZ3D currently has an F rating and is noted as not being a BBB-accredited business. Of the 22 complaints (all closed), the company was listed as having not responded in 21 instances.
For the one instance in which EZ3D did respond, the BBB noted that “BBB did not find business made good faith effort to resolve complaint.”Many people are more than happy to support an idea that sounds good to them. If nothing else, it shows everyone including investors that there are people out there interested in a particular idea, so even if a kickstarter game fails, all is not lost.
The only reason we have to rely on kickstarter today is because the genre became so volatile and stale, investors no longer want to risk money on any kind of mmorpg, be it a clone, a remake, or something new altogether. The fact that everyone including arguably the 5 biggest names in the industry have had to utilize kickstarter stands as the greatest proof that things in the mmorpg genre are not as sunshine and rainbows as fanboys would have you believe.
I don't think its usually a case of unethical practices with these failed kick starter campaigns, but rather complications due to poor time and money management skills of the companies involved. The longer the development cycle and the more money needed to fund the project the harder it is to run the business. You can be the most creative person in the world but if you don't have(or hiring someone and giving control as far as money management) people with good business sense.....your simply doomed to failure. i think this aspect holds true for kick starters if we look at the evidence of low budget projects vs high budget projects succeeding in making it to final product.
as for MMO kickstarters......MMOs have a long development cycle and none of them have really reached the point where we should be overly concerned....yet.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/1029/Pillars-of-Eternity.html
I hope you will be thinking of all the backers who made it possible while you play it.
While you are pondering on it you might want to support:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera
Thats, of course, if you like real CRPGs.
OTOH, if you like combat simulators like Diablo, youre covered by publishers.
And if you ever play sword coast legends you can also thank KS for that game.
ummmm
consumer 3D printers exist because of kickstarter. ALL of them have kickstater to thank. Including Drimmel
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Agreed with OP ,
I am was naive and support some project in past it was looking as something positive but for real KS & crowdfunding similar services are just legal cash grab scam without responsibility .
Yes ,some by those thief's ll make something close for what they grab money but ,majority of money is in their personal pockets. For me KS is worst thing what happen in modern day business .
I am not judge peoples & companies who use that for grab money ,they are take great opportunity .
How long does it take to build a MMORPG which in my opinion is still one of the most complex game design developers have to deal with.
Now how long have these MMORPG been in development on kickstarter, easy acces, crowdfunding or what ever similar?
I think to many people are expecting results to soon. Even think that this question might have a better place asking 3 years from now. And whatever the outcome might be in 3 years or more like with any business only the strong survives.
And I still believe in taking responsibility for your own actions, know what you get yourself into. Read the fine print. Alpha acces means alpha acces you're not in to have fun, you are their to break their game, find bugs, issue's and what nots.
This senseless bashing is gonna hurt future kickstarters more than the bad apples trying to scam people on kickstarters, ...
Bashing kickstarter itself is like bashing ebay, or alieexpress because something u bought of a random person non affiliated to the company is bad, or they sent u a brick instead the stuff you ordered. You'd check whom you're giving your money thoroughly or at least sufficiently, and chose wisely how much u give where, depending on a multitude of factors, ...
If nothing else. at the very least we've gotten some awesome stuff already, so there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
All industries and technological advancement and mass adoption has been "kickstarted" by a big margin already, it's changed all the industries for the better or worse, and that's what's important at the end of the day ( progress in a positive direction ).
If Kickstarter had a working reputation system and offered refunds when the project fails to deliver like Ebay does, I think we would bash Kickstarter a lot less.
I have put in 350 hours in 7 Days to Die and 250 Hours in Kerbal Space Program and neither games is released from Early Access yet and to be frank if the system retured my money and took the game away from me I would be very upset.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Maybe kickstarter isn't the answer, but will end up kickstarting said answer.