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What developers will not tell you !

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  • VelifaxVelifax Member UncommonPosts: 413
    You've caught on. We live in a world where we are allowed to sell each other poison, and if you are stupid enough to buy it, tough shit. It isn't the games you should be worried about.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    Originally posted by Velifax
    You've caught on. We live in a world where we are allowed to sell each other poison, and if you are stupid enough to buy it, tough shit. It isn't the games you should be worried about.

    Judging from some of the responses here, I would say a lot of them would buy the poison. The poison buyers are killing mmos, they get sucked in and add fuel, telling companies " yes " we can get away with crap !

  • MiviMivi Member UncommonPosts: 83


    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard


    The Internet is so awesome... ;-)

     


    Originally posted by delete5230 Where does this leave us ?.........A web site like this ( mmorpg.com ). It's up to us, the player to expose bad practice.
    The problem with "a web site like this" is that most posters aren't here to participate in the community of a game they play, but to bash and troll the forum of games they don't play and often actually never played at all. A "web site like this" is definitely not representative of the general opinion of the players of a game about that game.

    For instance, asking for opinions about a themepark MMORPG here is about as effective as asking for opinions about steak in a vegetarian restaurant.


    the correct term: circlejerk

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    Originally posted by Mivi

     


    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

     


    The Internet is so awesome... ;-)

     


    Originally posted by delete5230 Where does this leave us ?.........A web site like this ( mmorpg.com ). It's up to us, the player to expose bad practice.
    The problem with "a web site like this" is that most posters aren't here to participate in the community of a game they play, but to bash and troll the forum of games they don't play and often actually never played at all. A "web site like this" is definitely not representative of the general opinion of the players of a game about that game.

     

    For instance, asking for opinions about a themepark MMORPG here is about as effective as asking for opinions about steak in a vegetarian restaurant.


     

    the correct term: circlejerk

    Your right there is a lot of circle jerk here.

    However You still can read between the lines. It just takes a lot of reading.

    I used the Archage and Wildstar Forums to find out how bad the game is.  Of curse, I let the impulse gamers spend millions on crap to help me reach my decision to not buy into it :)

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100

    Well, you're seeing what alot of us see. Now the question is degree and intent. That's to say, to what degree the caustic aspect is being applied in a game on a case by case basis, and further if it's the developers intent to target and focus on "customers" weak in the respect. I don't personally know how to measure it, but when it's bad I can see it plain as day.

    People can call it a witch hunt. I understand that, I empathize with that. The issue is, though, that there is a problem. As has been said, it's the endeavor of the advertisement and even production of every product to appeal to a customer, so they sell more, so they get that almighty dollar, which seemingly today is more important than ingenuity or even quality. There are degrees, though, and there are dirty tricks, malintent. We need to be educated to defend ourselves from people taking us for rides, and once in awhile, it's nice if we'll look out for others, too.

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Originally posted by Mivi

     


    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

     


    The Internet is so awesome... ;-)

     


    Originally posted by delete5230 Where does this leave us ?.........A web site like this ( mmorpg.com ). It's up to us, the player to expose bad practice.
    The problem with "a web site like this" is that most posters aren't here to participate in the community of a game they play, but to bash and troll the forum of games they don't play and often actually never played at all. A "web site like this" is definitely not representative of the general opinion of the players of a game about that game.

     

    For instance, asking for opinions about a themepark MMORPG here is about as effective as asking for opinions about steak in a vegetarian restaurant.


     

    the correct term: circlejerk

    It's funny how your link goes to a 404 page and the definition of fail. That's not a very nice word anyway.

  • seigardseigard Member UncommonPosts: 286

    I agree with most of what DM Kano said in here.

    Movies fall almost in the same category with online gaming. You hear about a title, hype over it, then see it. you might dislike it because there is advertising in it, you might dislike it because the plot is weak, you might dislike it because of all the things the shooting crew or publishers didnt have to tell you and this does not change a bit even if you waited and read reviews since something you hyped over ends up being bland.

    There is little or no difference between these;

    ''In our game we will be using an expensive cash shop to take more money from you guys, oh we also will limit the world so you cant jump on some of the rocks.''

    ''In our movie we will plant ads everywhere so we can earn off more with contracts, oh we also will drop some of the scenes we planned because we couldnt handle them''

    So tell me what is so different in here. Why would developers work for a game, have a level of disclosure and communication with the community to make it better but at the same time give out all their flaws knowingly that it will only hurt what they are working on?

    This is a little naive if you ask me... First of all people put money in it, in order to earn money. An online game itself runs on money so anything that could bring down their income is also bad for the game itself? 

    Almost everything out there you can buy, from entertainment to health care, is bloated in order to make sales. If you feel a little rebellious today to change this system where there is an unrealistic amount of hype and advertising over everything, starting off from online gaming industry will get you nowhere...

  • MiviMivi Member UncommonPosts: 83


    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by Mivi   Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard   The Internet is so awesome... ;-)   Originally posted by delete5230 Where does this leave us ?.........A web site like this ( mmorpg.com ). It's up to us, the player to expose bad practice.
    The problem with "a web site like this" is that most posters aren't here to participate in the community of a game they play, but to bash and troll the forum of games they don't play and often actually never played at all. A "web site like this" is definitely not representative of the general opinion of the players of a game about that game.   For instance, asking for opinions about a themepark MMORPG here is about as effective as asking for opinions about steak in a vegetarian restaurant.
      the correct term: circlejerk
    Your right there is a lot of circle jerk here.

    However You still can read between the lines. It just takes a lot of reading.

    I used the Archage and Wildstar Forums to find out how bad the game is.  Of curse, I let the impulse gamers spend millions on crap to help me reach my decision to not buy into it :)


    lucky you. I thought that many use those forums just to reinforce their preconceptions :o

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    Originally posted by seigard

    I agree with most of what DM Kano said in here.

    Movies fall almost in the same category with online gaming. You hear about a title, hype over it, then see it. you might dislike it because there is advertising in it, you might dislike it because the plot is weak, you might dislike it because of all the things the shooting crew or publishers didnt have to tell you and this does not change a bit even if you waited and read reviews since something you hyped over ends up being bland.

    There is little or no difference between these;

    ''In our game we will be using an expensive cash shop to take more money from you guys, oh we also will limit the world so you cant jump on some of the rocks.''

    ''In our movie we will plant ads everywhere so we can earn off more with contracts, oh we also will drop some of the scenes we planned because we couldnt handle them''

    So tell me what is so different in here. Why would developers work for a game, have a level of disclosure and communication with the community to make it better but at the same time give out all their flaws knowingly that it will only hurt what they are working on?

    This is a little naive if you ask me... First of all people put money in it, in order to earn money. An online game itself runs on money so anything that could bring down their income is also bad for the game itself? 

    Almost everything out there you can buy, from entertainment to health care, is bloated in order to make sales. If you feel a little rebellious today to change this system where there is an unrealistic amount of hype and advertising over everything, starting off from online gaming industry will get you nowhere...

    I'm sitting here thinking.......Know what's weird ?

    If a few people tell you about a bad movie, You'll probably not go. But you guys will buy anything  :)

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Well, paying to play the alpha of a game you know rather little about is risky and most times it will just be a waste of time.

    But people have to make their own decisions, maybe it is just me and a few more here who are whining because it doesn't work for us while most people enjoy it.

    I been in many MMOs beta (Lineage was the first back in 2001 or so) but I never paid for it and I never will. In my opinion they really should pay me for it but I can do it for free to be nice. 

    In fact I usually wait 3 months after release before buying a MMO today, with a few exceptions that I researched carefully before.

    Well i can only base my opinion on what i see in the ever popular Tqitch TV,a however it is a good indication of gaming in general.

    What i see is every streamer that finds that NEW popular niche,says they are having fun.Truth it is not the game but the popularity surrounding their stream,they enjoy having lots of viewers and especially those giving them money.It is funny because it does not take long at all,like 1 month tops and most move on to another game,so recently after claiming how FUN that one was.

    I have spent a lot of my time following the transgression of H1Z1 for many reasons.It is imo one the cheapest easily releases i have ever seen with ZERO content and just one reason for anyone to play >>>Battle Royale.I wanted to see just how much they put into the game after getting that so called EARLY ACCESS money.So far i havce after 2 months since  literally nothing come through the pipeline and population of gamer has dropped to around 30-40%,so they have laready lost interested to more than 50% of their player base.

    This leads int othe title of this thread "What they won't tell you".This game is suppsoe to be f2p so in essence that so called EARLY ACCESS was the cash grab and there is VERY little of that to come from here on in as most everyone going to play has already paid into it.

    The TRUTH in this case,is it was simply an unfinished product looking to get a quick cash grab before the takeover by Daybreak.I would expect VERY little from this game,like maybe a 5% improvement over a year,so THAT WAS THE GAME,the early access is and was total BS.

    Bottom line is devs lie to us all the time about their intentions for game design and into the future of the game's design.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • seigardseigard Member UncommonPosts: 286
    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by seigard

    I agree with most of what DM Kano said in here.

    Movies fall almost in the same category with online gaming. You hear about a title, hype over it, then see it. you might dislike it because there is advertising in it, you might dislike it because the plot is weak, you might dislike it because of all the things the shooting crew or publishers didnt have to tell you and this does not change a bit even if you waited and read reviews since something you hyped over ends up being bland.

    There is little or no difference between these;

    ''In our game we will be using an expensive cash shop to take more money from you guys, oh we also will limit the world so you cant jump on some of the rocks.''

    ''In our movie we will plant ads everywhere so we can earn off more with contracts, oh we also will drop some of the scenes we planned because we couldnt handle them''

    So tell me what is so different in here. Why would developers work for a game, have a level of disclosure and communication with the community to make it better but at the same time give out all their flaws knowingly that it will only hurt what they are working on?

    This is a little naive if you ask me... First of all people put money in it, in order to earn money. An online game itself runs on money so anything that could bring down their income is also bad for the game itself? 

    Almost everything out there you can buy, from entertainment to health care, is bloated in order to make sales. If you feel a little rebellious today to change this system where there is an unrealistic amount of hype and advertising over everything, starting off from online gaming industry will get you nowhere...

    I'm sitting here thinking.......Know what's weird ?

    If a few people tell you about a bad movie, You'll probably not go. But you guys will buy anything  :)

    Wait... You are telling me that people can talk about a bad movie resulting in others not seeing it but this does not work with games so we need developer's full disclosure? There are so many examples of games being avoided at launch because of bad beta experiences and initial reviews. At this point, what else do you want?

    [mod edit]

  • jazz.bejazz.be Member UncommonPosts: 962

    You can't expect them to talk about flaws, that's just not how it works. And I'm not necessarily talking about scams here. People take this kind of news differently. Hearing about a flaw and experiencing it can be completely different. Then there is the whole publicity problem which kinda lives its own life and make babies and all.

    You could expect them to deliver what they promised, but then again you can't trust their word, because you know, it's their product. So that's where 3rd party reviewers kick in. For the actual experience. Professionals and just people like you and me. You still have to keep in mind that there are emotions and that opinions can be subjective, but if you know that then you know how to read the reviews. 

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Velifax
    You've caught on. We live in a world where we are allowed to sell each other poison, and if you are stupid enough to buy it, tough shit. It isn't the games you should be worried about.

    Yah, if you dont want to be scammed....use your brain lol not just for games, games are least of your worries

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by seigard

    I agree with most of what DM Kano said in here.

    Movies fall almost in the same category with online gaming. You hear about a title, hype over it, then see it. you might dislike it because there is advertising in it, you might dislike it because the plot is weak, you might dislike it because of all the things the shooting crew or publishers didnt have to tell you and this does not change a bit even if you waited and read reviews since something you hyped over ends up being bland.

    There is little or no difference between these;

    ''In our game we will be using an expensive cash shop to take more money from you guys, oh we also will limit the world so you cant jump on some of the rocks.''

    ''In our movie we will plant ads everywhere so we can earn off more with contracts, oh we also will drop some of the scenes we planned because we couldnt handle them''

    So tell me what is so different in here. Why would developers work for a game, have a level of disclosure and communication with the community to make it better but at the same time give out all their flaws knowingly that it will only hurt what they are working on?

    This is a little naive if you ask me... First of all people put money in it, in order to earn money. An online game itself runs on money so anything that could bring down their income is also bad for the game itself? 

    Almost everything out there you can buy, from entertainment to health care, is bloated in order to make sales. If you feel a little rebellious today to change this system where there is an unrealistic amount of hype and advertising over everything, starting off from online gaming industry will get you nowhere...

    I'm sitting here thinking.......Know what's weird ?

    If a few people tell you about a bad movie, You'll probably not go. But you guys will buy anything  :)

    You also have to account for fanbois who come on like ton of bricks on nayone who dares to criticize any fallacy game might have.

    I can understand devs and PRs BSing, but i cant explain blinders people put on and actually reinforce all that PR.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,360
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Pre release developer hype and what they seem to conveniently leave out.

    Have you considered waiting until substantially after a game launches before picking it up?  That way, you know about whatever big problems are there when making your decision, rather than taking a blind shot in the dark.

  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904

    This might be relevant maybe not...

    Here in Australia we have a legal requirement of quality assurance with our software in regards to bugs and usability.

    I'm Guessing in the US there is no such requirement?

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • bliss14bliss14 Member UncommonPosts: 595
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Have you considered waiting until substantially after a game launches before picking it up?  That way, you know about whatever big problems are there when making your decision, rather than taking a blind shot in the dark.

    *gasp*  Heresy.  

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Soooooo,.......You like zoning, unknown cash shop pricing, carrot on a stick follow a path in a should be open world mmo, broken half done mmos ?.....Your happy not knowing things like that until a five day head start. SOME YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW UNTIL RELEASE ?  

    Well, OK then :) 

    And yes, I like Angry Joe.  He's honest and entertaining at the same time, and holds no allegiance to any developer ! 

    Let's walk through this logically:

    • Zoning.  Yes, it's fine.  The thing that matters is the content quality, and with any given dev team you're going to produce a higher quality instanced game than non-instanced.  There are simply more edge cases and bugs to be solved with world content, which makes instances a better bet.  Or if you're just talking about zoned loads, then yeah that's a slight negative but such a trivial trait of a game that I don't understand why anyone would get upset by it.  So you see a load screen now and then...big whoop.
    • Unknown cash shop pricing.  Implies it's a free game.  And if you're super obsessed with cash shops you'll check the cash shop first and know the prices immediately at no cost to you.  ...so what's the problem here exactly?
    • Carrot on a stick.  Are you saying you don't like rewards in games?  I got bad news: every game you enjoyed was reward-driven.  The reward might not always have been an item, but it was some thing that brought you pleasure, and that makes it a reward.
    • Follow a path.  Another trivial trait.  Non-linearity's main purpose is replayability, and it's helpful for that, but there are some really excellent linear gaming experiences out there (Portal, Halflife, Bioshock, etc) and while you don't play those games multiple times they're still fantastic.  Open world is overrated and adds almost nothing concrete to the fun of a game.
    I'm not saying it's a bad thing for people to discuss these things if they're important to them.  They should.  But they should also read through what I've just posted here to understand that they shouldn't be completely freaking out about these things as you are, because at least these elements in particular are largely irrelevant to the fun factor of a game.
     
    I mean are you really going to enjoy some awesome new MMORPG you're trying and holy crap it has all the gameplay you want, and then you reach the first zone and it shows you a loading screen -- and what are you just going to ALT+F4 and uninstall?  You'd be depriving yourself of possibly the best MMORPG you've ever played, due to some strange obsession that every detail has to be exactly a certain way.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,360
    Originally posted by Nitth

    This might be relevant maybe not...

    Here in Australia we have a legal requirement of quality assurance with our software in regards to bugs and usability.

    I'm Guessing in the US there is no such requirement?

    What does that even mean?  That sounds like it would necessarily be at least one of:

    a)  doesn't meaningfully restrict software from being a buggy mess,

    b)  completely unenforceable and generally ignored, or

    c)  selectively enforced purely as a way to harass the politically unpopular.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by seigard

    I agree with most of what DM Kano said in here.

    Movies fall almost in the same category with online gaming. You hear about a title, hype over it, then see it. you might dislike it because there is advertising in it, you might dislike it because the plot is weak, you might dislike it because of all the things the shooting crew or publishers didnt have to tell you and this does not change a bit even if you waited and read reviews since something you hyped over ends up being bland.

    There is little or no difference between these;

    ''In our game we will be using an expensive cash shop to take more money from you guys, oh we also will limit the world so you cant jump on some of the rocks.''

    ''In our movie we will plant ads everywhere so we can earn off more with contracts, oh we also will drop some of the scenes we planned because we couldnt handle them''

    So tell me what is so different in here. Why would developers work for a game, have a level of disclosure and communication with the community to make it better but at the same time give out all their flaws knowingly that it will only hurt what they are working on?

    This is a little naive if you ask me... First of all people put money in it, in order to earn money. An online game itself runs on money so anything that could bring down their income is also bad for the game itself? 

    Almost everything out there you can buy, from entertainment to health care, is bloated in order to make sales. If you feel a little rebellious today to change this system where there is an unrealistic amount of hype and advertising over everything, starting off from online gaming industry will get you nowhere...

    I'm sitting here thinking.......Know what's weird ?

    If a few people tell you about a bad movie, You'll probably not go. But you guys will buy anything  :)

    You also have to account for fanbois who come on like ton of bricks on nayone who dares to criticize any fallacy game might have.

    I can understand devs and PRs BSing, but i cant explain blinders people put on and actually reinforce all that PR.

    Fanbois.......I can explain some of them with a little story.

    A few years back, and a few months before Age of Conan release, there was this guy that seemed to be on the Age of Conan Forum 24/7 here at mmorpg.com.  I'm actually saying he must have never went to bed EVERRR.

    He knew everything about the game to the point it was scary.  Grammar, punctuation and wording were flawless.  If you checked his post history, it had almost nothing but AoC post and his account was only about a few months old.  This guy was turning in anyone that got out of hand with any argument ( rating posters out ).  Perfectly by the text book rules !

    After the bad release, he stuck around to argue the uproar then slowly and gracefully faded as time went on.

     

    Paranoid ?...........Not really !

    If I were a developer and had a lot invested in my game, I would plant one of my people right here or at least do it my self !

     

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415

    What developers will not tell you !

    "This title is not, in fact, for everyone."

    Well, they sometimes do tell us that. But no one ever listens.

  • nebb1234nebb1234 Member Posts: 242
    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Would a car manufacturer put the list of flaws in their ad for a new car? 

    Do movie ads talk about plot weakness or sub par acting performances?

     

    Am I missing a punchline here somehow?

     

    Is it surprising to anyone that pre-release game hype is 100% advertising only talking about the positives to boost sales?

     

    Hi DMKano......I see you a lot here, so hay :)

     

    Car Manufacturer's at least in my opinion try much harder to be flawless ( try ). They care about there reputation more so than game developers.

    They run more test. They know BY LAW they have to repair problems.

    They offer more range in pricing of vehicles for quality, and to me this is up front.  If all I could afford is a Ford Pinto, at lease I know what I'm getting into !

     

     

    And lets just say I'm way off base on this example......Well.....The Car Industry is no better !

    as a hundred million airbags are recalled....

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