Originally posted by Adjuvant1 Still waiting for the source of that info that "Brad put money back into the project" and "Brad sold assets to fund the project". Also would like to know why you think it's acceptable to allow people working on a game development to work as volunteers if it's not a non-profit project.
google is a tool you type words in and it gives you answers... amazzin
Originally posted by Adjuvant1 Still waiting for the source of that info that "Brad put money back into the project" and "Brad sold assets to fund the project". Also would like to know why you think it's acceptable to allow people working on a game development to work as volunteers if it's not a non-profit project.
google is a tool you type words in and it gives you answers... amazzin
You'll have to substantiate that claim, that it's somewhere on google, too. Still waiting for you to back up your claim in some method other than arguing my credibility. You put the statements out there. The onus of proof is on you.
Honestly, you're causing ireparable harm to your cause here. Everyone who has followed this issue knows of the misappropriation of funds of which Brad has been accused. Now you're saying he's given it back, but unless you work for Brad, otherwise know Brad or are Brad, you couldn't have that kind of knowledge. Who are you and why should we believe you?
Let's assume I'm google-impaired today. Why don't you help me with some links, because, as I said, these are your words being challenged, not mine.
The KS failed because they came to the table with nothing but a few ideas scribbled on a napkin, and Brad hoping that his name alone would have people throwing $800k+ at their bare bones concept.
The whole campaign was pitiful to watch. It was pretty obvious that they had nothing but 'ideas' and they were making shit up as they went: from shitty fan-fictionesque lore to gimmicky classes. It was amateur hour at best and you could tell that the team was scrambling to churn out stuff to try and make it look like they had been doing something over the supposed months of development prior to the launch of the KS page. They didn't have shit.
And that is what blew. You had a bunch of industry veterans, who should have known better, turning up to the table with their empty hands out expecting people to fund their brainstorming sessions in Brad's garage. There have been some Indie developers working on games in their spare time that have had more professional looking and content rich KS campaigns than the one that Brad & Co. threw together.
And if you have any lasting doubts as to why the KS failed, go watch the original KS video for the project. A bunch of soulless looking mother-feckers struggling to read their cue cards, and not one of them sounding like they believe a single word of what they are saying.
Pantheon's KS is a lesson for eveyone on how not to do a KS. It was amateur hour at best. Brad turned up expecting his name and a few unity assets doing a Star Citizen. Brad and the original devs were expecting a paycheck and got burned. Four months of work and they had sod all to show for it. IMO it was bullshit. Even during the Sparkle era they had a lot of work to show over a four month period, all the original lot had for a tatty napkin like mentioned above.
I still have hope the game will succeed but not because of Brad but more due to the passion and professionlism of the new team and the progress shown on the game
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
Dude, did you even read the article you linked to? It was almost entirely condemning of Brad's actions. The only thing in there about him making restitution was a bit about him "planning to liquidate personal assets". The article concludes:
This guy has screwed his employees now, not once, but twice. Leaving them in the lurch and walking away with naught but damage to his reputation.
Then he wants to use a bunch of volunteers to complete the project.
Come on… Don’t let him do it again.
Just... stop, please.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Now as for the people who still harp about the 120k... Do you people seriously think that 120k... more or less pocket change for a game of this scope... Would have made any difference in the development of the game... Because the truth is.. It would not.
Did you seriously insinuate it's okay for the head of a company to pocket $120,000 because it wouldn't make a difference in the overall development of the game? Just... wow. This isn't a pack of sharpies or a stapler we're discussing, here.
45k is not pocket change, let alone 2.6x that figure. No, That Is Not Okay. It's a big indicator of the type of person that is running this company; anyone capable of doing something like that is capable of misappropriating far greater amounts. As I've written before, 45k is not pocket change, 120k is not pocket change.
This is also disturbing, because it looks like an abuse of executive privilege. It might have been technically legal, but it is not a nice move. This is not someone I would want reading my credit card number.
...I've made my point, now backing away from keyboard slowly.
Do you people seriously not understand that this post right here is EXACTLY how rumors get started, and misinformation becomes fact?
Please, show me one source, even one mention back when all of this went down (over a year ago) to Brad McQuaid stealing $120,000. I beg you to present one mention of it, even a sentence referencing him taking that amount of money.
It has been stated over, and over, and over again what happened, including Brad himself AND the other developers who were involved. The amount of misinformation that continues to be propagated around this event is astonishing to me. At this point, anyone looking to get any clear info on Pantheon has to wade through this phenomenon of propaganda and hate-mongering, and there's almost no way to even get at the facts anymore. It's absolutely incredible what the internet has done to this situation, nearly unprecedented in my opinion.
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
Dude, did you even read the article you linked to? It was almost entirely condemning of Brad's actions. The only thing in there about him making restitution was a bit about him "planning to liquidate personal assets". The article concludes:
This guy has screwed his employees now, not once, but twice. Leaving them in the lurch and walking away with naught but damage to his reputation.
Then he wants to use a bunch of volunteers to complete the project.
Come on… Don’t let him do it again.
Just... stop, please.
Exactly. There are differences, that it was a disparate crowdfunding from kickstarter, but nonetheless, potato or potato however you say it, he misappropriated funds to himself from a crowdfunded project. The amount listed that he "took as his salary" was 45k, but no evidence how the other 80k was appropriated, only that it went to "someone". Well that "someone" certainly wasn't the volunteers he's now convinced to work on his project.
"Dude, that’s morally and ethically bankrupt."~ cited article
It says he "planned" to pay money back into the project. Is he still "planning"? Can we see some evidence or testimonial from the "other persons" to which the other 80k was appropriated? Can we see any evidence this "planned liquidation" took place or is that still in the "planning phase of planning"?
He didn't pay anything back, not yet at least. Saying he "will" is taking the word of a guy who's already been caught misappropriating, and really, not worth the effort I put into typing these words.
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
This is the general consensus of what happened, affirmed by testimonies of the other devs working on the project at the time.
He paid himself around 40-45k (depending on source), he paid his contracted devs around 20k (depending on source). They are now gone, have been for over a year now. Brad is still working on the game. Seriously, end of story. Of course it was not the right thing to do. We all know that, Brad himself has admitted that.
But, here we are a year later, and now as of this very thread, Brad McQuaid stole $120,000 and spent all of it on drugs...
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
This is the general consensus of what happened, affirmed by testimonies of the other devs working on the project at the time.
He paid himself around 40-45k (depending on source), he paid his contracted devs around 20k (depending on source). They are now gone, have been for over a year now. Brad is still working on the game. Seriously, end of story. Of course it was not the right thing to do. We all know that, Brad himself has admitted that.
But, here we are a year later, and now as of this very thread, Brad McQuaid stole $120,000 and spent all of it on drugs...
Well, according to you he paid people out 20k of 145k. He kept 45k as a salary, that means 80k is still... somewhere? 80k+45k is 125k. Seems like solid math. Where do you suppose the other 80k went? Is there evidence it went anywhere?
Being an EQ fan, makes me wish Brad would just remove himself from the development with an agreement he gets a cut of the profits. Its at the point he is the biggest and worst part of the game.
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
Dude, did you even read the article you linked to? It was almost entirely condemning of Brad's actions. The only thing in there about him making restitution was a bit about him "planning to liquidate personal assets". The article concludes:
This guy has screwed his employees now, not once, but twice. Leaving them in the lurch and walking away with naught but damage to his reputation.
Then he wants to use a bunch of volunteers to complete the project.
Come on… Don’t let him do it again.
Just... stop, please.
What are you even talking about ? Its an opinion based article that states what facts are known along with about 100 others if you google it. What did you expect me to do condone his behavior or his bad business decisions ? If you have read any of my post I've never said anything like that. In fact Ive said multiple times that the guy is a terrible businessman and he doesn't need to be in control of the company. Being an intelligent creative person doesn't mean you can run a business.
If a guy who says he has no money left tells me he's selling his tv to keep the project going who am I to argue ? I don't have financial access to his records so everything put online can be a bullshit it isn't like this company is running in the open. All I have advocated for is the core design concepts.
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
This is the general consensus of what happened, affirmed by testimonies of the other devs working on the project at the time.
He paid himself around 40-45k (depending on source), he paid his contracted devs around 20k (depending on source). They are now gone, have been for over a year now. Brad is still working on the game. Seriously, end of story. Of course it was not the right thing to do. We all know that, Brad himself has admitted that.
But, here we are a year later, and now as of this very thread, Brad McQuaid stole $120,000 and spent all of it on drugs...
Well, according to you he paid people out 20k of 145k. He kept 45k as a salary, that means 80k is still... somewhere? 80k+45k is 125k. Seems like solid math. Where do you suppose the other 80k went? Is there evidence it went anywhere?
the assumption was he paid each developer 20k or atleast that's what I think he was trying to say.
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
This is the general consensus of what happened, affirmed by testimonies of the other devs working on the project at the time.
He paid himself around 40-45k (depending on source), he paid his contracted devs around 20k (depending on source). They are now gone, have been for over a year now. Brad is still working on the game. Seriously, end of story. Of course it was not the right thing to do. We all know that, Brad himself has admitted that.
But, here we are a year later, and now as of this very thread, Brad McQuaid stole $120,000 and spent all of it on drugs...
Dude obviously he stole 120k for hookers and blow. Don't know you bro!.
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
Dude, did you even read the article you linked to? It was almost entirely condemning of Brad's actions. The only thing in there about him making restitution was a bit about him "planning to liquidate personal assets". The article concludes:
This guy has screwed his employees now, not once, but twice. Leaving them in the lurch and walking away with naught but damage to his reputation.
Then he wants to use a bunch of volunteers to complete the project.
Come on… Don’t let him do it again.
Just... stop, please.
What are you even talking about ? Its an opinion based article that states what facts are known along with about 100 others if you google it. What did you expect me to do condone his behavior or his bad business decisions ? If you have read any of my post I've never said anything like that. In fact Ive said multiple times that the guy is a terrible businessman and he doesn't need to be in control of the company. Being an intelligent creative person doesn't mean you can run a business.
If a guy who says he has no money left tells me he's selling his tv to keep the project going who am I to argue ? I don't have financial access to his records so everything put online can be a bullshit it isn't like this company is running in the open. All I have advocated for is the core design concepts.
No. This. You said this...
"Brad also put his money back into the project after the funding got pulled. So it isn't like he stole money from kick starter he simply took a personal advance from the original private investor. After that from what Ive heard he sold personal assets to push the project forward"
There's no evidence of this, only words of intent, or in other words, "When he got caught misappropriating, taking a personal, no-interest loan from his crowdfunded project, after paying 20k to devs and letting them go, of the 145k raised, he admitted he did it for salary for 5 months (9k a month, nice salary for a startup with no product)", and... what...? he's going to pay back his salary?
Now you flip script and say you're not defending the guy. What?
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
This is the general consensus of what happened, affirmed by testimonies of the other devs working on the project at the time.
He paid himself around 40-45k (depending on source), he paid his contracted devs around 20k (depending on source). They are now gone, have been for over a year now. Brad is still working on the game. Seriously, end of story. Of course it was not the right thing to do. We all know that, Brad himself has admitted that.
But, here we are a year later, and now as of this very thread, Brad McQuaid stole $120,000 and spent all of it on drugs...
Well, according to you he paid people out 20k of 145k. He kept 45k as a salary, that means 80k is still... somewhere? 80k+45k is 125k. Seems like solid math. Where do you suppose the other 80k went? Is there evidence it went anywhere?
My intent was to communicate 45k went to himself, while 20-25k was paid to each of his contracted devs at that point in time. There are sources out there affirming that reality, as well as a couple of the contracted devs. If it was not true, I would imagine we would be hearing a much louder message from those original devs, but they haven't said a word for nearly a year. If Brad did what most people now are saying he did, there would easily be a legal case against him and several lawsuits. But there is nothing.
The guy just decided to pay himself more money than his contracted devs, and people don't think he should have paid himself at all. He admitted he shouldn't have. I mean come on, most fast food workers do terrible things to every meal you eat. Most banks utterly screw you in the financial products they sell. Most people in the world have bents towards doing the wrong things now and then, and at the very least they make lots of mistakes and have periods of exercising bad judgment. The way this man is being dragged through the fire and crucified almost daily is ridiculous.
I also find it very telling that the Brad/Pantheon hate-train keeps rolling heavily along, with new rumors and misinformation popping up every single day over a year after it happened, while stories like this ( http://www.gamespot.com/articles/after-raising-114-000-on-kickstarter-dev-goes-sile/1100-6425367/ ) were just a quick blip on the gaming world's radar. Think what you want of McQuaid and what he did with the money back then, but he's still here working on the game with his team and they're making measurable forward progress.
Originally posted by djcincy Brad also put his money back into the project after the funding got pulled. So it isn't like he stole money from kick starter he simply took a personal advance from the original private investor. After that from what Ive heard he sold personal assets to push the project forward and most of the current team are volunteers. Some really passionate talented people are currently working on the game to get the next stage of funding and i'm impressed with how they have turned things around.
This is my direct quote from earlier in the thread. I said Brad put his personal money back in the project to keep it alive which he said he was going to do and can't be proven to be true or false. I never said he paid back kick starter or investors.
Originally posted by MightyUnclean This game sounds great to me, on paper. Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K? Was it lack of advertising? Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game? Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...
What I underlined is the reason I did not back it. It does look good on paper. So have many other MMOs recently. Too many times have they "lost sight" and morphed into something quite different.
There are a few other reasons, like Brad's not-so-stellar "business reputation", whether true or not.
If it comes to fruition, I may give it a go, depending on how much of that "on paper" makes it to release
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
This is the general consensus of what happened, affirmed by testimonies of the other devs working on the project at the time.
He paid himself around 40-45k (depending on source), he paid his contracted devs around 20k (depending on source). They are now gone, have been for over a year now. Brad is still working on the game. Seriously, end of story. Of course it was not the right thing to do. We all know that, Brad himself has admitted that.
But, here we are a year later, and now as of this very thread, Brad McQuaid stole $120,000 and spent all of it on drugs...
Well, according to you he paid people out 20k of 145k. He kept 45k as a salary, that means 80k is still... somewhere? 80k+45k is 125k. Seems like solid math. Where do you suppose the other 80k went? Is there evidence it went anywhere?
My intent was to communicate 45k went to himself, while 20-25k was paid to each of his contracted devs at that point in time. There are sources out there affirming that reality, as well as a couple of the contracted devs. If it was not true, I would imagine we would be hearing a much louder message from those original devs, but they haven't said a word for nearly a year. If Brad did what most people now are saying he did, there would easily be a legal case against him and several lawsuits. But there is nothing.
The guy just decided to pay himself more money than his contracted devs, and people don't think he should have paid himself at all. He admitted he shouldn't have. I mean come on, most fast food workers do terrible things to every meal you eat. Most banks utterly screw you in the financial products they sell. Most people in the world have bents towards doing the wrong things now and then, and at the very least they make lots of mistakes and have periods of exercising bad judgment. The way this man is being dragged through the fire and crucified almost daily is ridiculous.
I also find it very telling that the Brad/Pantheon hate-train keeps rolling heavily along, with new rumors and misinformation popping up every single day over a year after it happened, while stories like this ( http://www.gamespot.com/articles/after-raising-114-000-on-kickstarter-dev-goes-sile/1100-6425367/ ) were just a quick blip on the gaming world's radar. Think what you want of McQuaid and what he did with the money back then, but he's still here working on the game with his team and they're making measurable forward progress.
No, they do not (it's the reason we have things like the FDA and the SEC in the US). If this does happen, a customer can easily take recourse. This is also totally beside the point; It doesn't make anything about giving oneself a 5-month salary advance as the head of a startup any less distasteful.
What irks me the most is the Animal Farm-esque vibe coming from the Pantheon camp. Posts like "120k is pocket change", or "The guy just decided to pay himself more money" basically amount to this:
Don't get lulled or bamboozled by the PR team.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Originally posted by MightyUnclean This game sounds great to me, on paper. Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K? Was it lack of advertising? Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game? Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...
It failed because brad and company at the time had really nothing to show but some faint Ideas. It failed because even if they had made the 800K mark none of it was going to go toward further development of the game but instead to back pay Brad and maybe get some office space, or maybe it just failed because Brad couldn't even be bothered to turn off his cell phone during live streams to raise interest and money in the project. (Hell if the lead guy doesn't even care why should anyone else)
It was a scam then and probably still is, What money they got from players that went ahead and pledge privately was supposed to go to maintaining a a website for the game (obviously websites do not normally take over 100K to maintain. In the end most of that money brad went ahead and took without the teams knowledge to pay himself back pay. When the team at that time found out they quit and brad paid what little was left them in back pay.
Brad now has a all volunteer team of inexperienced programmers working for free on their spare time to make the game. Is it gonna be the greatest game ever or even ever be released? Use your own experience to decide yourself, but generally speaking having kickstarter to get office space, and back pay yourself while you hope a angel investor buys into your ideas so you can actually start working on them will spell failure.
Unbelievable. There is so much post editing going on by those with administrative rights to edit others posts that... well... this site is a joke and I won't bother coming here anymore.
Seriously, first my posts asking why a certain poster cares about this game disappears, then the post of another who quoted my post disappears.
Piss off MMORPG, you aren't worthy of information. Lets hope you die with the rest of the failing MMOs out there. Good riddance.
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
This is the general consensus of what happened, affirmed by testimonies of the other devs working on the project at the time.
He paid himself around 40-45k (depending on source), he paid his contracted devs around 20k (depending on source). They are now gone, have been for over a year now. Brad is still working on the game. Seriously, end of story. Of course it was not the right thing to do. We all know that, Brad himself has admitted that.
But, here we are a year later, and now as of this very thread, Brad McQuaid stole $120,000 and spent all of it on drugs...
Well, according to you he paid people out 20k of 145k. He kept 45k as a salary, that means 80k is still... somewhere? 80k+45k is 125k. Seems like solid math. Where do you suppose the other 80k went? Is there evidence it went anywhere?
My intent was to communicate 45k went to himself, while 20-25k was paid to each of his contracted devs at that point in time. There are sources out there affirming that reality, as well as a couple of the contracted devs. If it was not true, I would imagine we would be hearing a much louder message from those original devs, but they haven't said a word for nearly a year. If Brad did what most people now are saying he did, there would easily be a legal case against him and several lawsuits. But there is nothing.
The guy just decided to pay himself more money than his contracted devs, and people don't think he should have paid himself at all. He admitted he shouldn't have. I mean come on, most fast food workers do terrible things to every meal you eat. Most banks utterly screw you in the financial products they sell. Most people in the world have bents towards doing the wrong things now and then, and at the very least they make lots of mistakes and have periods of exercising bad judgment. The way this man is being dragged through the fire and crucified almost daily is ridiculous.
I also find it very telling that the Brad/Pantheon hate-train keeps rolling heavily along, with new rumors and misinformation popping up every single day over a year after it happened, while stories like this ( http://www.gamespot.com/articles/after-raising-114-000-on-kickstarter-dev-goes-sile/1100-6425367/ ) were just a quick blip on the gaming world's radar. Think what you want of McQuaid and what he did with the money back then, but he's still here working on the game with his team and they're making measurable forward progress.
No, they do not (it's the reason we have things like the FDA and the SEC in the US). If this does happen, a customer can easily take recourse. This is also totally beside the point; It doesn't make anything about giving oneself a 5-month salary advance as the head of a startup any less distasteful.
What irks me the most is the Animal Farm-esque vibe coming from the Pantheon camp. Posts like "120k is pocket change", or "The guy just decided to pay himself more money" basically amount to this:
Don't get lulled or bamboozled by the PR team. It's just bad ethics.
What are you wanting people to say, man? I mean, everyone in this thread you continue to argue with AGREE that it was mishandled. This issue has been discussed so many, many, many times, and it's the same conversation every time.
You post your logical fallacy links and your cute comic images, but what are you trying to accomplish here? Do you honestly think you're adding insight into this discussion that hasn't been added over the last year's worth of back and forth on this topic? It's truly not as interesting as you think it is. It's not tabloid, it's not new - at this stage, there are going to be people who overlook and play the game, and there will be people who don't.
Just help me understand why you are continuing to spread misinformation? You continuing to cite 120k in your response to me is only proving my point, sadly. And that, too, is unethical.
I think their Kickstarter failed because they just slapped it up there half arsed and it showed. It wasn't well planned. Don't even get me started on their initial pitch videos, gosh sooo horrible, I almost felt sorry for them
Brads ideas are good, really good but for things to work out he needs someone else to take care of the economy.
In Everquest he got Smedley for that and while Smed has done many questionable things about gameplay he can take care of money far better than Brad.
With Sigil things were about the same as here, with the exception that no SOE can bail the game out this time.
A guy like Brad needs to team up with a more realistic guy who know what actually can be implemented and not and can handle economy better. In that case we could get an awesome game.
So they didn't fail because we don't want a game like this or because the ideas and mechanics were bad.
You continuing to cite 120k in your response to me is only proving my point, sadly. And that, too, is unethical.
Quotation marks. This is a citation. I've always cited the lesser figure; I quoted another poster who wrote the greater figure, and just now cited him. However, it seems like you're splitting hairs.
As for "why" or what I think it's adding: I'm responding to an observed resurgence of people more than willing to pat Brad on the back and send him on his way, ablating the enormity of what he did. Because this kind of thing does go on, not just for Pantheon, and it needs to be recognized. With a background in business, I need to be clear about where I stand on issues like this.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Comments
google is a tool you type words in and it gives you answers... amazzin
You'll have to substantiate that claim, that it's somewhere on google, too. Still waiting for you to back up your claim in some method other than arguing my credibility. You put the statements out there. The onus of proof is on you.
Honestly, you're causing ireparable harm to your cause here. Everyone who has followed this issue knows of the misappropriation of funds of which Brad has been accused. Now you're saying he's given it back, but unless you work for Brad, otherwise know Brad or are Brad, you couldn't have that kind of knowledge. Who are you and why should we believe you?
Let's assume I'm google-impaired today. Why don't you help me with some links, because, as I said, these are your words being challenged, not mine.
I googled Brad McQuaid paying back kickstarter funds and got nothing.
Pantheon's KS is a lesson for eveyone on how not to do a KS. It was amateur hour at best. Brad turned up expecting his name and a few unity assets doing a Star Citizen. Brad and the original devs were expecting a paycheck and got burned. Four months of work and they had sod all to show for it. IMO it was bullshit. Even during the Sparkle era they had a lot of work to show over a four month period, all the original lot had for a tatty napkin like mentioned above.
I still have hope the game will succeed but not because of Brad but more due to the passion and professionlism of the new team and the progress shown on the game
http://stroppsworld.com/2014/05/05/brad-mcquaid-morally-and-ethically-bankrupt/
Brad Mcquaid didn't take a dime from kick starter. He started another private fund raising campaign which is where this story comes from. He raised like 140k and took a 5 month salary advance for like 45k. The amount varies depending on the source. It goes on to say that he was liquidating assets to put back into the project and also they began accepting volunteers to continue the project.
Dude, did you even read the article you linked to? It was almost entirely condemning of Brad's actions. The only thing in there about him making restitution was a bit about him "planning to liquidate personal assets". The article concludes:
This guy has screwed his employees now, not once, but twice. Leaving them in the lurch and walking away with naught but damage to his reputation.
Then he wants to use a bunch of volunteers to complete the project.
Come on… Don’t let him do it again.
Just... stop, please.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Do you people seriously not understand that this post right here is EXACTLY how rumors get started, and misinformation becomes fact?
Please, show me one source, even one mention back when all of this went down (over a year ago) to Brad McQuaid stealing $120,000. I beg you to present one mention of it, even a sentence referencing him taking that amount of money.
It has been stated over, and over, and over again what happened, including Brad himself AND the other developers who were involved. The amount of misinformation that continues to be propagated around this event is astonishing to me. At this point, anyone looking to get any clear info on Pantheon has to wade through this phenomenon of propaganda and hate-mongering, and there's almost no way to even get at the facts anymore. It's absolutely incredible what the internet has done to this situation, nearly unprecedented in my opinion.
Exactly. There are differences, that it was a disparate crowdfunding from kickstarter, but nonetheless, potato or potato however you say it, he misappropriated funds to himself from a crowdfunded project. The amount listed that he "took as his salary" was 45k, but no evidence how the other 80k was appropriated, only that it went to "someone". Well that "someone" certainly wasn't the volunteers he's now convinced to work on his project.
"Dude, that’s morally and ethically bankrupt."~ cited article
It says he "planned" to pay money back into the project. Is he still "planning"? Can we see some evidence or testimonial from the "other persons" to which the other 80k was appropriated? Can we see any evidence this "planned liquidation" took place or is that still in the "planning phase of planning"?
He didn't pay anything back, not yet at least. Saying he "will" is taking the word of a guy who's already been caught misappropriating, and really, not worth the effort I put into typing these words.
This is the general consensus of what happened, affirmed by testimonies of the other devs working on the project at the time.
He paid himself around 40-45k (depending on source), he paid his contracted devs around 20k (depending on source). They are now gone, have been for over a year now. Brad is still working on the game. Seriously, end of story. Of course it was not the right thing to do. We all know that, Brad himself has admitted that.
But, here we are a year later, and now as of this very thread, Brad McQuaid stole $120,000 and spent all of it on drugs...
Well, according to you he paid people out 20k of 145k. He kept 45k as a salary, that means 80k is still... somewhere? 80k+45k is 125k. Seems like solid math. Where do you suppose the other 80k went? Is there evidence it went anywhere?
What are you even talking about ? Its an opinion based article that states what facts are known along with about 100 others if you google it. What did you expect me to do condone his behavior or his bad business decisions ? If you have read any of my post I've never said anything like that. In fact Ive said multiple times that the guy is a terrible businessman and he doesn't need to be in control of the company. Being an intelligent creative person doesn't mean you can run a business.
If a guy who says he has no money left tells me he's selling his tv to keep the project going who am I to argue ? I don't have financial access to his records so everything put online can be a bullshit it isn't like this company is running in the open. All I have advocated for is the core design concepts.
the assumption was he paid each developer 20k or atleast that's what I think he was trying to say.
Dude obviously he stole 120k for hookers and blow. Don't know you bro!.
No. This. You said this...
"Brad also put his money back into the project after the funding got pulled. So it isn't like he stole money from kick starter he simply took a personal advance from the original private investor. After that from what Ive heard he sold personal assets to push the project forward"
There's no evidence of this, only words of intent, or in other words, "When he got caught misappropriating, taking a personal, no-interest loan from his crowdfunded project, after paying 20k to devs and letting them go, of the 145k raised, he admitted he did it for salary for 5 months (9k a month, nice salary for a startup with no product)", and... what...? he's going to pay back his salary?
Now you flip script and say you're not defending the guy. What?
My intent was to communicate 45k went to himself, while 20-25k was paid to each of his contracted devs at that point in time. There are sources out there affirming that reality, as well as a couple of the contracted devs. If it was not true, I would imagine we would be hearing a much louder message from those original devs, but they haven't said a word for nearly a year. If Brad did what most people now are saying he did, there would easily be a legal case against him and several lawsuits. But there is nothing.
The guy just decided to pay himself more money than his contracted devs, and people don't think he should have paid himself at all. He admitted he shouldn't have. I mean come on, most fast food workers do terrible things to every meal you eat. Most banks utterly screw you in the financial products they sell. Most people in the world have bents towards doing the wrong things now and then, and at the very least they make lots of mistakes and have periods of exercising bad judgment. The way this man is being dragged through the fire and crucified almost daily is ridiculous.
I also find it very telling that the Brad/Pantheon hate-train keeps rolling heavily along, with new rumors and misinformation popping up every single day over a year after it happened, while stories like this ( http://www.gamespot.com/articles/after-raising-114-000-on-kickstarter-dev-goes-sile/1100-6425367/ ) were just a quick blip on the gaming world's radar. Think what you want of McQuaid and what he did with the money back then, but he's still here working on the game with his team and they're making measurable forward progress.
This is my direct quote from earlier in the thread. I said Brad put his personal money back in the project to keep it alive which he said he was going to do and can't be proven to be true or false. I never said he paid back kick starter or investors.
There are a few other reasons, like Brad's not-so-stellar "business reputation", whether true or not.
If it comes to fruition, I may give it a go, depending on how much of that "on paper" makes it to release
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque
No, they do not (it's the reason we have things like the FDA and the SEC in the US). If this does happen, a customer can easily take recourse. This is also totally beside the point; It doesn't make anything about giving oneself a 5-month salary advance as the head of a startup any less distasteful.
What irks me the most is the Animal Farm-esque vibe coming from the Pantheon camp. Posts like "120k is pocket change", or "The guy just decided to pay himself more money" basically amount to this:
Don't get lulled or bamboozled by the PR team.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
It failed because brad and company at the time had really nothing to show but some faint Ideas. It failed because even if they had made the 800K mark none of it was going to go toward further development of the game but instead to back pay Brad and maybe get some office space, or maybe it just failed because Brad couldn't even be bothered to turn off his cell phone during live streams to raise interest and money in the project. (Hell if the lead guy doesn't even care why should anyone else)
It was a scam then and probably still is, What money they got from players that went ahead and pledge privately was supposed to go to maintaining a a website for the game (obviously websites do not normally take over 100K to maintain. In the end most of that money brad went ahead and took without the teams knowledge to pay himself back pay. When the team at that time found out they quit and brad paid what little was left them in back pay.
Brad now has a all volunteer team of inexperienced programmers working for free on their spare time to make the game. Is it gonna be the greatest game ever or even ever be released? Use your own experience to decide yourself, but generally speaking having kickstarter to get office space, and back pay yourself while you hope a angel investor buys into your ideas so you can actually start working on them will spell failure.
Unbelievable. There is so much post editing going on by those with administrative rights to edit others posts that... well... this site is a joke and I won't bother coming here anymore.
Seriously, first my posts asking why a certain poster cares about this game disappears, then the post of another who quoted my post disappears.
Piss off MMORPG, you aren't worthy of information. Lets hope you die with the rest of the failing MMOs out there. Good riddance.
What are you wanting people to say, man? I mean, everyone in this thread you continue to argue with AGREE that it was mishandled. This issue has been discussed so many, many, many times, and it's the same conversation every time.
You post your logical fallacy links and your cute comic images, but what are you trying to accomplish here? Do you honestly think you're adding insight into this discussion that hasn't been added over the last year's worth of back and forth on this topic? It's truly not as interesting as you think it is. It's not tabloid, it's not new - at this stage, there are going to be people who overlook and play the game, and there will be people who don't.
Just help me understand why you are continuing to spread misinformation? You continuing to cite 120k in your response to me is only proving my point, sadly. And that, too, is unethical.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Brads ideas are good, really good but for things to work out he needs someone else to take care of the economy.
In Everquest he got Smedley for that and while Smed has done many questionable things about gameplay he can take care of money far better than Brad.
With Sigil things were about the same as here, with the exception that no SOE can bail the game out this time.
A guy like Brad needs to team up with a more realistic guy who know what actually can be implemented and not and can handle economy better. In that case we could get an awesome game.
So they didn't fail because we don't want a game like this or because the ideas and mechanics were bad.
Quotation marks. This is a citation. I've always cited the lesser figure; I quoted another poster who wrote the greater figure, and just now cited him. However, it seems like you're splitting hairs.
As for "why" or what I think it's adding: I'm responding to an observed resurgence of people more than willing to pat Brad on the back and send him on his way, ablating the enormity of what he did. Because this kind of thing does go on, not just for Pantheon, and it needs to be recognized. With a background in business, I need to be clear about where I stand on issues like this.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance