Second I think social media and twitch will push this game forward in a way that enchances a small marketing budget. I know once streamers like Kripparian, Towellie, and Kungen get their hands on this game it will quickly rise in popularity.
What the heck makes you think Kripp would give this mess the time of day? The game is supposed to be a sort of EQ/VG spiritual successor and Kripp never played SOE games. Can you please stop gratuitously name-throwing? It's obnoxious.
Kripp is a hardcore gamer by nature and has played nearly every MMO ever made. He was a hardcore raider long before he became a streamer and has stated many times that some of his best experiences was hardcore raiding in wow back in its early years. World of Warcraft in those early years was heavily inspired by Everquest and had a lot of the same core concepts with grouping, hardcore grinds, and raid progression. He has also shown to express interest in other hardcore games that fall out of favor with the casual crowd like POE.
While it is cute that you seem very angered by the statement I want to ensure you that this is the last response I will give to this kind of non sense. It is not my responsibility to inform you about things you can't comprehend.
Originally posted by MightyUnclean This game sounds great to me, on paper. Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K? Was it lack of advertising? Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game? Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...
IMHO it failed for two reasons:
Extreme cynicism about Brad McQuaid, his ability to deliver, his morals, his past and all sorts of negatives.
The amatuer hour presentation of the kickstarter, lack of information, confusion and misinformation.
The Kickstarter, I believe, was not run very well or very well thought out. I actually sent the KS a message detailing some of what I saw.
The biggest thing was that their rewards really didn't seem to make a lot of sense. All but the very lowest pledges had finite numbers on it. I did the math and in order to just fund (no stretch goals) it required almost every single pledge to be purchased. This included the Super-Big Ones. Practically the only non-finite pledges were at the very lowest level of like the $20 range or so. So obviously for every big pledge they didn't get, they needed many-many tiny ones to make up for it.
Edit: This is in addition to the issues other posters mentioned.
So this is the... third... failed funding attempt..?
I´d guess that most people are looking for the next thing... not the before the previous last thing...
Now as for the people who still harp about the 120k... Do you people seriously think that 120k... more or less pocket change for a game of this scope... Would have made any difference in the development of the game... Because the truth is.. It would not.
I think it is time for Brad and the team to come to terms with the fact that the scope of the game is to big for the money they have. Time to trim it down.. slim it and put it through a 5:2 diet.
Making a smaller game and perhaps build some more capital.. Earn some renown for the team as it is sits...
Then come back and tackle this again.
Any way... It failed because of bad timing and poor presentation.
Originally posted by angerbeaver But the team still walked away $400k richer right? I don't know how kickstarted really works but I assume the backers do not get the money back.
If they don't reach the goal they don't get a red cent and the backers don't get charged till it clears the goal.
Originally posted by angerbeaver But the team still walked away $400k richer right? I don't know how kickstarted really works but I assume the backers do not get the money back.
If they don't reach the goal they don't get a red cent and the backers don't get charged till it clears the goal.
Backers don't get charged till the day it's all done and said, in other words when the clock strikes 0. This allows people to pull out last minute if they were a massive backer and sabotage the project. It's like reverse auctioning.
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Originally posted by angerbeaver But the team still walked away $400k richer right? I don't know how kickstarted really works but I assume the backers do not get the money back.
If they don't reach the goal they don't get a red cent and the backers don't get charged till it clears the goal.
Backers don't get charged till the day it's all done and said, in other words when the clock strikes 0. This allows people to pull out last minute if they were a massive backer and sabotage the project. It's like reverse auctioning.
Second I think social media and twitch will push this game forward in a way that enchances a small marketing budget. I know once streamers like Kripparian, Towellie, and Kungen get their hands on this game it will quickly rise in popularity.
What the heck makes you think Kripp would give this mess the time of day? The game is supposed to be a sort of EQ/VG spiritual successor and Kripp never played SOE games. Can you please stop gratuitously name-throwing? It's obnoxious.
Kripp is a hardcore gamer by nature and has played nearly every MMO ever made. He was a hardcore raider long before he became a streamer and has stated many times that some of his best experiences was hardcore raiding in wow back in its early years. World of Warcraft in those early years was heavily inspired by Everquest and had a lot of the same core concepts with grouping, hardcore grinds, and raid progression. He has also shown to express interest in other hardcore games that fall out of favor with the casual crowd like POE.
While it is cute that you seem very angered by the statement I want to ensure you that this is the last response I will give to this kind of non sense. It is not my responsibility to inform you about things you can't comprehend.
"Played nearly every MMO"? no.
"WoW heavily inspired by EQ"? insignificant to this conversation.
"Hardcore raider in WoW" yes.
"Show interest in PoE" yes, after he was first to beat Diablo3.
"I'm cute". Thanks.
"Ensure me last response" Better for you.
"Not my responsibility" Can say that again.
"Things you can't comprehend" OK, Raistlin Majere.
You can't substantiate or cite evidence of any affiliation of Kripparrian and EQ, EQ2, Vanguard or any other SOE game. Pantheon is a mess, not worth Kripp's time, likely not even on his radar. There's a better chance of Andy Serkis livestreaming Pantheon than Kripp.
edit: This all isn't to mention Blizzard now pays Kripp to livestream their games. Pantheon can't get off the ground without soaking money from the hopeful public, how are they going to pay a professional livestreamer?
Another thing why lot's of people are starting to be on the fence when it comes to give to kickstarter campain is the fact that devs always change the game at the last minute before they release. Past games that have been funded in kickstarter campains proves it. Some still where true to what they said during the campain but most of them change the way the game was going to be played. So the backers in the end are left with nothing or little of what they where told by the devs and what made them give some money to fund the project in the first place.
Too bad for them in this case but i am sure it will be for the best in the end. At least the players won't suffer financially this time around.
The KS failed because they came to the table with nothing but a few ideas scribbled on a napkin, and Brad hoping that his name alone would have people throwing $800k+ at their bare bones concept.
The whole campaign was pitiful to watch. It was pretty obvious that they had nothing but 'ideas' and they were making shit up as they went: from shitty fan-fictionesque lore to gimmicky classes. It was amateur hour at best and you could tell that the team was scrambling to churn out stuff to try and make it look like they had been doing something over the supposed months of development prior to the launch of the KS page. They didn't have shit.
And that is what blew. You had a bunch of industry veterans, who should have known better, turning up to the table with their empty hands out expecting people to fund their brainstorming sessions in Brad's garage. There have been some Indie developers working on games in their spare time that have had more professional looking and content rich KS campaigns than the one that Brad & Co. threw together.
And if you have any lasting doubts as to why the KS failed, go watch the original KS video for the project. A bunch of soulless looking mother-feckers struggling to read their cue cards, and not one of them sounding like they believe a single word of what they are saying.
2) You can't make a decent PVE themepark for anywhere close to 800k. Most people complain that games which have 100+ million dollar budgets have no content.
Anyone thinking this game is dead and dusted might be eating humble pie in a couple of years time. Say what you want about Brad but this chap is resilient and has a funny knack of pulling these things off. Personally I think we will see this game made, the main thing is who Brad will sell it to once it's done lol.
The Dev is not trustworthy thus they could not gather enough momentum in this crowded MMO market.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
Brad also put his money back into the project after the funding got pulled. So it isn't like he stole money from kick starter he simply took a personal advance from the original private investor. After that from what Ive heard he sold personal assets to push the project forward and most of the current team are volunteers. Some really passionate talented people are currently working on the game to get the next stage of funding and i'm impressed with how they have turned things around.
I'd say Brad McQuaid is likely a big factor. MMO players tend to not forgive or forget quickly, and after the Vanguard fiasco ... I imagine many people are still bitter.
Also, it just seemed really generic to me. In a sea of kick starter games, it's easy to get lost these days. I imagine the kickstarter train will start to slow down a bit son as well.
I support Brad as a creative director, as long as he's not in charge of production or finances.
People should stick to the roles they are good at.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Originally posted by djcincy Brad also put his money back into the project after the funding got pulled. So it isn't like he stole money from kick starter he simply took a personal advance from the original private investor. After that from what Ive heard he sold personal assets to push the project forward and most of the current team are volunteers.
Cite source of info.
Also, "...and most of the current team are volunteers. "
Disgusting. This is not some high school glee club or boy scout project. This is not a non-profit venture or a charity. This is a product being marketed and expecting, even allowing, people to work for free when the end intent is profit is horrible. They're playing around with real peoples' money here. These blurred lines between business and charity project are completely unacceptable.
I honestly think we could fund a kickstarter, who's sole purpose was to 'prevent' Pantheon from being created and it would get more funding then Pantheon did.
The reason it failed was because it toted on 'learning from the last 10 years of MMO gaming' and then in everything it showed afterwards, was proof that it hadn't learned anything in the last 20.
Originally posted by djcincy Brad also put his money back into the project after the funding got pulled. So it isn't like he stole money from kick starter he simply took a personal advance from the original private investor. After that from what Ive heard he sold personal assets to push the project forward and most of the current team are volunteers.
Cite source of info.
Also, "...and most of the current team are volunteers. "
Disgusting. This is not some high school glee club or boy scout project. This is not a non-profit venture or a charity. This is a product being marketed and expecting, even allowing, people to work for free when the end intent is profit is horrible. They're playing around with real peoples' money here. These blurred lines between business and charity project are completely unacceptable.
Originally posted by djcincy Brad also put his money back into the project after the funding got pulled. So it isn't like he stole money from kick starter he simply took a personal advance from the original private investor. After that from what Ive heard he sold personal assets to push the project forward and most of the current team are volunteers.
Cite source of info.
Also, "...and most of the current team are volunteers. "
Disgusting. This is not some high school glee club or boy scout project. This is not a non-profit venture or a charity. This is a product being marketed and expecting, even allowing, people to work for free when the end intent is profit is horrible. They're playing around with real peoples' money here. These blurred lines between business and charity project are completely unacceptable.
Originally posted by djcincy Brad also put his money back into the project after the funding got pulled. So it isn't like he stole money from kick starter he simply took a personal advance from the original private investor. After that from what Ive heard he sold personal assets to push the project forward and most of the current team are volunteers.
Cite source of info.
Also, "...and most of the current team are volunteers. "
Disgusting. This is not some high school glee club or boy scout project. This is not a non-profit venture or a charity. This is a product being marketed and expecting, even allowing, people to work for free when the end intent is profit is horrible. They're playing around with real peoples' money here. These blurred lines between business and charity project are completely unacceptable.
Warning Unhappy human above
Cite source of info, please.
Lol just have to look at your post history. You bounce around spewing your vile personality all over these boards. You obviously have no interest in this game, but you troll multiple threads on the forum.
Originally posted by djcincy Brad also put his money back into the project after the funding got pulled. So it isn't like he stole money from kick starter he simply took a personal advance from the original private investor. After that from what Ive heard he sold personal assets to push the project forward and most of the current team are volunteers.
Cite source of info.
Also, "...and most of the current team are volunteers. "
Disgusting. This is not some high school glee club or boy scout project. This is not a non-profit venture or a charity. This is a product being marketed and expecting, even allowing, people to work for free when the end intent is profit is horrible. They're playing around with real peoples' money here. These blurred lines between business and charity project are completely unacceptable.
Warning Unhappy human above
Cite source of info, please.
Lol just have to look at your post history. You bounce around spewing your vile personality all over these boards. You obviously have no interest in this game, but you troll multiple threads on the forum.
No more misdirection. My posts are honest and from a legitimate point of view. This isn't about me.
Still waiting for the source of that info that "Brad put money back into the project" and "Brad sold assets to fund the project". Also would like to know why you think it's acceptable to allow people working on a game development to work as volunteers if it's not a non-profit project.
Now as for the people who still harp about the 120k... Do you people seriously think that 120k... more or less pocket change for a game of this scope... Would have made any difference in the development of the game... Because the truth is.. It would not.
Did you seriously insinuate it's okay for the head of a company to pocket $120,000 because it wouldn't make a difference in the overall development of the game? Just... wow. This isn't a pack of sharpies or a stapler we're discussing, here.
45k is not pocket change, let alone 2.6x that figure. No, That Is Not Okay. It's a big indicator of the type of person that is running this company; anyone capable of doing something like that is capable of misappropriating far greater amounts. As I've written before, 45k is not pocket change, 120k is not pocket change.
This is also disturbing, because it looks like an abuse of executive privilege. It might have been technically legal, but it is not a nice move. This is not someone I would want reading my credit card number.
...I've made my point, now backing away from keyboard slowly.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Comments
Kripp is a hardcore gamer by nature and has played nearly every MMO ever made. He was a hardcore raider long before he became a streamer and has stated many times that some of his best experiences was hardcore raiding in wow back in its early years. World of Warcraft in those early years was heavily inspired by Everquest and had a lot of the same core concepts with grouping, hardcore grinds, and raid progression. He has also shown to express interest in other hardcore games that fall out of favor with the casual crowd like POE.
While it is cute that you seem very angered by the statement I want to ensure you that this is the last response I will give to this kind of non sense. It is not my responsibility to inform you about things you can't comprehend.
The Kickstarter, I believe, was not run very well or very well thought out. I actually sent the KS a message detailing some of what I saw.
The biggest thing was that their rewards really didn't seem to make a lot of sense. All but the very lowest pledges had finite numbers on it. I did the math and in order to just fund (no stretch goals) it required almost every single pledge to be purchased. This included the Super-Big Ones. Practically the only non-finite pledges were at the very lowest level of like the $20 range or so. So obviously for every big pledge they didn't get, they needed many-many tiny ones to make up for it.
Edit: This is in addition to the issues other posters mentioned.
So this is the... third... failed funding attempt..?
I´d guess that most people are looking for the next thing... not the before the previous last thing...
Now as for the people who still harp about the 120k... Do you people seriously think that 120k... more or less pocket change for a game of this scope... Would have made any difference in the development of the game... Because the truth is.. It would not.
I think it is time for Brad and the team to come to terms with the fact that the scope of the game is to big for the money they have. Time to trim it down.. slim it and put it through a 5:2 diet.
Making a smaller game and perhaps build some more capital.. Earn some renown for the team as it is sits...
Then come back and tackle this again.
Any way... It failed because of bad timing and poor presentation.
This have been a good conversation
If they don't reach the goal they don't get a red cent and the backers don't get charged till it clears the goal.
Backers don't get charged till the day it's all done and said, in other words when the clock strikes 0. This allows people to pull out last minute if they were a massive backer and sabotage the project. It's like reverse auctioning.
--Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
NZXT Phantom 410 Case
Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz
Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard
Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0
Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB
Oh! I never heard that part of it. Thanks guys
"Played nearly every MMO"? no.
"WoW heavily inspired by EQ"? insignificant to this conversation.
"Hardcore raider in WoW" yes.
"Show interest in PoE" yes, after he was first to beat Diablo3.
"I'm cute". Thanks.
"Ensure me last response" Better for you.
"Not my responsibility" Can say that again.
"Things you can't comprehend" OK, Raistlin Majere.
You can't substantiate or cite evidence of any affiliation of Kripparrian and EQ, EQ2, Vanguard or any other SOE game. Pantheon is a mess, not worth Kripp's time, likely not even on his radar. There's a better chance of Andy Serkis livestreaming Pantheon than Kripp.
edit: This all isn't to mention Blizzard now pays Kripp to livestream their games. Pantheon can't get off the ground without soaking money from the hopeful public, how are they going to pay a professional livestreamer?
Another thing why lot's of people are starting to be on the fence when it comes to give to kickstarter campain is the fact that devs always change the game at the last minute before they release. Past games that have been funded in kickstarter campains proves it. Some still where true to what they said during the campain but most of them change the way the game was going to be played. So the backers in the end are left with nothing or little of what they where told by the devs and what made them give some money to fund the project in the first place.
Too bad for them in this case but i am sure it will be for the best in the end. At least the players won't suffer financially this time around.
There are so many fantasy MMOs on kick starter right now
The KS failed because they came to the table with nothing but a few ideas scribbled on a napkin, and Brad hoping that his name alone would have people throwing $800k+ at their bare bones concept.
The whole campaign was pitiful to watch. It was pretty obvious that they had nothing but 'ideas' and they were making shit up as they went: from shitty fan-fictionesque lore to gimmicky classes. It was amateur hour at best and you could tell that the team was scrambling to churn out stuff to try and make it look like they had been doing something over the supposed months of development prior to the launch of the KS page. They didn't have shit.
And that is what blew. You had a bunch of industry veterans, who should have known better, turning up to the table with their empty hands out expecting people to fund their brainstorming sessions in Brad's garage. There have been some Indie developers working on games in their spare time that have had more professional looking and content rich KS campaigns than the one that Brad & Co. threw together.
And if you have any lasting doubts as to why the KS failed, go watch the original KS video for the project. A bunch of soulless looking mother-feckers struggling to read their cue cards, and not one of them sounding like they believe a single word of what they are saying.
1) The kickstarter was terrible.
2) You can't make a decent PVE themepark for anywhere close to 800k. Most people complain that games which have 100+ million dollar budgets have no content.
The Dev is not trustworthy thus they could not gather enough momentum in this crowded MMO market.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
I support Brad as a creative director, as long as he's not in charge of production or finances.
People should stick to the roles they are good at.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Cite source of info.
Also, "...and most of the current team are volunteers. "
Disgusting. This is not some high school glee club or boy scout project. This is not a non-profit venture or a charity. This is a product being marketed and expecting, even allowing, people to work for free when the end intent is profit is horrible. They're playing around with real peoples' money here. These blurred lines between business and charity project are completely unacceptable.
I honestly think we could fund a kickstarter, who's sole purpose was to 'prevent' Pantheon from being created and it would get more funding then Pantheon did.
The reason it failed was because it toted on 'learning from the last 10 years of MMO gaming' and then in everything it showed afterwards, was proof that it hadn't learned anything in the last 20.
Warning Unhappy human above
Cite source of info, please.
Lol just have to look at your post history. You bounce around spewing your vile personality all over these boards. You obviously have no interest in this game, but you troll multiple threads on the forum.
No more misdirection. My posts are honest and from a legitimate point of view. This isn't about me.
Cite source of your info.
Did you seriously insinuate it's okay for the head of a company to pocket $120,000 because it wouldn't make a difference in the overall development of the game? Just... wow. This isn't a pack of sharpies or a stapler we're discussing, here.
45k is not pocket change, let alone 2.6x that figure. No, That Is Not Okay. It's a big indicator of the type of person that is running this company; anyone capable of doing something like that is capable of misappropriating far greater amounts. As I've written before, 45k is not pocket change, 120k is not pocket change.
This is also disturbing, because it looks like an abuse of executive privilege. It might have been technically legal, but it is not a nice move. This is not someone I would want reading my credit card number.
...I've made my point, now backing away from keyboard slowly.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance