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Why did the Kickstarter fail?

This game sounds great to me, on paper.  Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K?  Was it lack of advertising?  Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game?  Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...
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Comments

  • MavolenceMavolence Member UncommonPosts: 635
    I chose not to back it because of tons of reasons. One of the biggest one though was I saw that crafting wasn't even part of the core game it was only a stretch goal. I mean seriously...a stretch goal for crafting?! What if i fund a game it doesn't reach the stretch goal and they dont add crafting. I'd be furious. So i refused.
  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    Though there is no doubt that there were people who wanted this type of game, I think this shows that there are just not enough. 

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Originally posted by MightyUnclean
    This game sounds great to me, on paper.  Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K?  Was it lack of advertising?  Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game?  Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...

    IMHO it failed for two reasons:

    1. Extreme cynicism about  Brad McQuaid, his ability to deliver, his morals, his past and all sorts of negatives.
    2. The amatuer  hour presentation of the kickstarter, lack of information, confusion and misinformation.
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Though there is no doubt that there were people who wanted this type of game, I think this shows that there are just not enough. 

    Not really lots of folks who want a game like this refused to fund the kickstarter for the reasons I gave above.  I was one of them.

  • SeariasSearias Member UncommonPosts: 742
    Originally posted by MightyUnclean
    This game sounds great to me, on paper.  Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K?  Was it lack of advertising?  Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game?  Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...

    I think there was a lot of trust issues when it comes to Brad McQuaid . So, not many people wanted to pledge.

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  • MavolenceMavolence Member UncommonPosts: 635
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by MightyUnclean
    This game sounds great to me, on paper.  Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K?  Was it lack of advertising?  Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game?  Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...

    IMHO it failed for two reasons:

    1. Extreme cynicism about  Brad McQuaid, his ability to deliver, his morals, his past and all sorts of negatives.
    2. The amatuer  hour presentation of the kickstarter, lack of information, confusion and misinformation.

    For sure

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by MightyUnclean
    This game sounds great to me, on paper.  Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K?  Was it lack of advertising?  Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game?  Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...

    Sounds great to me, too. It could be one or more of the following

    • there aren't enough interested in that type of game
    • there aren't enough interested that think the team can deliver  it
    • there aren't enough interested that donate to things like this. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • DerivativeDerivative Member UncommonPosts: 85

    Well, like someone previously mentioned here, crafting was a HUGE after thought, which turned a lot of people away. Also, if you followed the kickstarter from the beginning, what they were giving for 800k was pretty much trash, and they had stretch goals all the way up to like 5 million, A LOT of those goals being iconic classes from EQ or VG that people would want to play.

     

    They did however fix the latter issue, but it was too late.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140

    -It had nothing at all to do with "not enough people wanting a game like this" and the archives of older threads are all you really need to do to get an honest answer.

     

    The problem was with brad. the secondary problem is kickstart burnout.... But it was brad. Thats the gist of it.

     

    And honestly, I think anyone supporting this project currently or in the future will be highly disappointed... For many reasons including brad.

  • movros99movros99 Member UncommonPosts: 125
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by MightyUnclean
    This game sounds great to me, on paper.  Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K?  Was it lack of advertising?  Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game?  Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...

    IMHO it failed for two reasons:

    1. Extreme cynicism about  Brad McQuaid, his ability to deliver, his morals, his past and all sorts of negatives.
    2. The amatuer  hour presentation of the kickstarter, lack of information, confusion and misinformation.

    Pretty much this.  Brad McQuaid hastily threw a few ideas together and expected his EQ background to carry the entire campaign.  I don't trust him and I don't care for his vision for a game. 

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 733

    I'd say Brad McQuaid is likely a big factor. MMO players tend to not forgive or forget quickly, and after the Vanguard fiasco ... I imagine many people are still bitter.

    Also, it just seemed really generic to me. In a sea of kick starter games, it's easy to get lost these days. I imagine the kickstarter train will start to slow down a bit son as well.

  • RaagnarzRaagnarz Member UncommonPosts: 302
    One and only one reason Brad. Brad is a terrible business manager at best, and a liar and thief at the worst. He might be a great idea guy but he has zero clue how to manage his company's money. Except this time it wasn't his company's money, it would have been our money. Sorry not happening. I've backed Camelot Unchained, Shards, now Crowfall all for over $100 each. I'm not burnt out on KS, I'm burnt out of Brad spewing lies and have zero faith in his ability to run a company. He really did think he could throw together some hastily written ideas, slap his name on it, and launch an almost million dollar KS on that alone. His arrogance and lack of respect for us as a consumer base was insulting. I've seen small indie projects with one man working on his dream that have put together more professional KS campaigns than this supposed industry genius who has made millions throughout his career.
  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 Member UncommonPosts: 2,770

    There seemed to be far too much uncertainty with the game and the team. They also didn't do nearly enough marketing in preparation for the KS. For me the biggest issue is that there was almost nothing to show. None of it looked appealing or presented their vision in a clear way how it was unique.

    Crowfall is already further in development so you can instantly see how it is unique and the where the team's direction is.

     

    Compare for yourself

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crowfall/crowfall-throne-war-pc-mmo

  • reeereeereeereee Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by MightyUnclean
    This game sounds great to me, on paper.  Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K?  Was it lack of advertising?  Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game?  Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...

    Hundreds of forum pages were written discussing Brad and his various achievements and failings.  It was quite entertaining. It's a shame you missed it.

     

    Long story short: A lot of people who would like to donate to a game like this did not because they have doubts about Brad.

  • SojhinSojhin Member UncommonPosts: 226
    My first ten second impression looking at the kickstarter page for that game was that it  looked bad. Reading through the site and watching the promo video did not remove that gut feeling. 
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    I'm not allowed, on this website, to communicate what I truly feel about this game and its components because when I do it's reported as trolling. If I'm not allowed to express myself honestly about something I inherently hate it.
  • splongsplong Member UncommonPosts: 15

    because of Brad McQuaid.

    I wouldnt give him a dime.

  • ArtificeVenatusArtificeVenatus Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
     
  • HowryHowry Member UncommonPosts: 116

    Whether you like Brad or not. Everquest was a great game and so was Vanguard IMO.  Obviously VG had a ton of issues but it was way ahead of its time with what it offered.  The classes were unique and fun. The crafting was great.  The open world housing was done well, guild halls were cool.  The diplomacy system was one of a kind at the time.  The world was huge and finding random caves and dungeons throughout the world to explore made the game a lot of fun.

     

    It had a lot to offer.  I am hopeful that Pantheon will be similar to Vanguard but more polished.

     

    We shall see.

     

     

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by MightyUnclean
    This game sounds great to me, on paper.  Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K?  Was it lack of advertising?  Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game?  Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...

    It had an extremely poorly managed kickstarter.  Basically Brad treated it more like an initial info release on an already being developed game, and not as essentially a sales pitch to get people interested.  They didnt have enough info/etc and were scrambling to create it as the kickstarter went.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by MightyUnclean
    This game sounds great to me, on paper.  Why do you think the Kickstarter only raised $400K out of, what, $800K?  Was it lack of advertising?  Not enough disgruntled old guys like me who want this type of game?  Other games like Crowfall are still funding, so I guess it's not that the crowd funding types are burnt out yet...

    IMHO it failed for two reasons:

    1. Extreme cynicism about  Brad McQuaid, his ability to deliver, his morals, his past and all sorts of negatives.
    2. The amatuer  hour presentation of the kickstarter, lack of information, confusion and misinformation.

    This pretty much sums it up.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,348
    I played EQ almost since launch, but I never paid attention to anything behind the scenes.  What did Brad McQuaid do that was fishy?
  • Agnostic42Agnostic42 Member UncommonPosts: 405

    Confusius once said:

    Weak character coupled with honored place, meager knowledge with large plans, limited powers with heavy responsibility, will rarely escape disaster.

     

     

    IMO Brad needs to step back and let someone else set up the kickstarter and let someone else handle the marketing/advertising. Run the show behind the scenes, but stay out of the spotlight and just do what he does best. Being an indie company doesn't mean his company should look 'indie', especially when asking for money.

  • jerkbeastjerkbeast Member UncommonPosts: 254
    I didn't see the Kickstarter back then, but I did see a screenshot or two, and they looked like crap. Until very recently I wouldn't have wanted to play the game, but the last things I've seen are amazing. If he did the Kickstarter later with the improved visuals I'm sure it would have gone much differently. 
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534

    Asking that question begs the conspiracy theorists and envious armchair developers to crash this thread.

    In short, he mismanaged Vanguard which led to their funding being pulled.  Most recently he kept Pantheon donation money instead of giving it to the original team members that probably were planning on leaving due to a lack of funding/pay.

    None of these things make a shit of difference to me.  He is the only guy in the industry who still understands the potential MMORPGs had.  As someone who grew up playing rpgs and reading choose your own adventure books, I refuse to oppose a game like Pantheon or its developers, despite their vices.


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