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Why is EVE-Online continuing to do so well?
Hardin
Member Posts: 70
Firstly, this is not a knocking question - I am a fan of the game...
I am just curious as to how an almost 3 year old MMOG continues to increase its number of users on such a sustained and ongoing basis.
For those that don't know EVE topped over 100,000 paid for accounts last weekend and on Sunday over 23,000 players were online and active simultaneously (on the same server)...
As a first day sign up I can remember when peak Sunday used to top out at around 7,000 simultaneous players and I can remember how long it seemed to take the game to reach 10,000 simultaneous players. In my mind the jump from 10,000 to 23,000 seems to have been made relatively quickly and things don't seem to be slowing down.
You could put it down to all the excellent new content that CCP (the developers of EVE) have introduced over the period however all MMOG's tend to introduce new content and improve the game after launch but still they go into eventual decline after a couple of years... whereas EVE seems to be having an extended longevity...
I have my own theories:
1) Lack of rivalry. EVE is pretty much the only space based 'Elite' style MMOG out there. Rivals such as (Earth Above and Beyond and SWG) have crashed and their subscribers have flocked to EVE. I am not sure how many SWG players swapped after their recent patch but the invasion of former Earth Above and Beyond players was pretty noticeable.
2) The WoW effect. WoW in my opinion has attracted lots of new players to MMOG's. It is a great game... I play it myself... but at the same time after a certain point it does become relatively monotonous - players have limited ability to alter the universe and PvP is fun but relatively meaningless. I think SOME of the mass of new MMOG players that have tired of WoW have gone looking for other MMOG fixes and EVE just happens to be one of the most attractive alternatives.
3) Complexity and human interaction. Anyone who plays EVE knows just how hard it is to get into the game. While a new character can start playing an important part in fleet combat within a month the owner has to know what they are doing. The scope is immense. While this is a downfall from one perspective it also is partly the reason for the games long lasting success... players who actually persevere with the game tend to stay with it because they can actually play a part in shaping galactic events. The pride that comes with seeing your alliance capturing and defending it own piece of territory, building its own space stations, going into battle knowing that to survive you have to rely on each other person in your gang and the sheer drama of the game's diplomacy and politics. Watch as alliances are forged and then fall to pieces. Marvel at how the superpowers of the game eventually collapse to internal squabbles and disputes or hordes of rivals ganging up to take them down a peg or two... and know that you can play a part in it. Nothing is static.
4) Meaningful & painful PvP. In EVE losing a ship can hurt - not just your wallet - but your heart too. When you have spent weeks and months training your skills and saving up to buy yourself that pretty battleship (which can be insured) and then equip it with the most uber gear you can afford (often more expensive than the ship itself and it cant be insured) and then actually take it into combat for the first time you experience an adrenaline rush that I certainly have not had in any other game. I can remember when I finally purchased my first cruiser (after weeks of work) and then 2 hours later ran into two player pirates who proceeded to try and destroy it... I escaped (with just 1% structure left) but my heart had virtually stopped! The 'free-for-all' low sec regions offer vast cash incentives for people to venture out of the relative safety of Empire but you do so at your own risk. The most carebearish industrialist drools at the thought of those rich asteroids ripe for plunder and while he may not want to PvP himself he can always pay for some protectors that do - or join an alliance (basically a huge mutual protection racket) to ensure his security while he plunders those 'roids. I personally spend my time hunting NPC pirates for the rich bounties that they give - knowing full well that at any time I could become the hunted if some player pirates jump into system and decide that they want my loot... it is all about risks vs incentives and I think the game balances it perfectly...
Anyway... those are my theories as to why the game continues to grow... feel free to add your own...
Amarr Victor
Comments
If you actually read the other thread you will see that it was a mistake. Thank you for your constructive post...
Amarr Victor
lol, well I read it before you deleted the message.
I know, let me do that too and I will go delete that topic and make smartass coments on the poeple that post there and say moron things like : "Thank you for your constructive post..." just to make me feel superior over the situation and hopefully make the posters feel stupid and foolish infront for others and cover my own fault. Yeah that should make me feel great eh? Wow, you are a tard.
Thank you for your understanding for human mistakes.
I made the post apologising for the double post mistake at 5.36
You came here and criticised the double post at 6:00
- 24 minutes later -
Your comment, "just to make me feel superior over the situation and hopefully make the posters feel stupid and foolish infront for others and cover my own fault." applies perfectly to your own first post...
If you had not chosen to criticise stupidly rather than adding a constructive post about the content of the thread then I would not have picked you up on it...
Anyway... I wont respond to you again so smack away if you like...
I hope others will provide some comment on the subject of the thread.
Thanks
Amarr Victor
well... that is true and very wrong at the same time. EVE CAN be monotonous if you DO boring things. you HAVE the freedom to do the most boring things you can think of, and still "level up" because leveling is passive and in real time.
that is a popular misconception in EVE.
BUT EVE also gives you many NOT boring options. it is actually a very adrenaline filled game. much more than WoW. why? because PvP in EVE matters and can happen everywhere. because you can conquer and defend player owned space (most of the 5000 solar systems can be player controlled).
player politics matter like in no other game (xept Shadowbane). player lore is built as well as history. with one world, one server only, what you or your corporation achieve is even more important. AND control is featured on the games website and even on the ingame map.
so if you want to mine all day, you can do that. but you dont HAVE to.
you can earn money by fighting PvE, doing missions for players or NPCs, trade with NPCs or players, construct things, win in the lottery
there are so many ways. if you dont like something, do something else.
freedom always is a double edged sword. WoW offers none. so you always know what to do next. that can be fun. I liked WoW very much, but it will get boring soon, because what you do doesnt really matter as long as you level up.
in EVE its the other way around. you level up whatever you do. and whatever you do matters
Askatan
My theory: EvE is still growing, because there is no XP or levels.
Let's imagine situation where 3 friends are playing game that have XP and levels. During first week everyone is leveling pretty much same speed and everyone is able to group with each other. However after few weeks you are starting to see significant level differences between players. One of players has been really busy in work and hasn't been able to play every night. Another player has been in maternity leave and has played game maybe 8 hours day. Because level differences players are not able to effectively group together anymore - or at least one of players is forced to play without XP gain or repeating content that she has already done. Quick forward to next month and these friends are playing in totally different zones and totally different levels. Practically these friends who wanted to play game together are forced to play game separated. Eventually they leave game, because there isn't community where they wanted to belong to.
From new player's viewpoint when she comes to game months after game is released most of players are in much more higher levels than she is. Practically this means that there is limited amount of players who are able to group with her. First few levels she might be able to solo without group, but then build in class dynamics hit to game play and she is forced to find other players who want to group with her. This build in "community grouping" mechanism might work, if players wouldn't advance different speeds. However eventually level difference will get too big, artificial "grouping" community disbands and players are left alone. In essence, same power (XP, levels and classes) that is creating communities is also disbanding communities.
XP and levels are also bad, because they seem to limit developers imagination. If players want to have more "content", developers seem to think that they need to 1) add more levels to game, and 2) add more zones and quests to game. If there wouldn't have levels and XP option, developers would be forced to think differently: "Maybe we should add new player owned space station feature? Maybe we should add new clothes and armor options for players? Maybe we could implement some kind political ruling system where players are deciding laws? ..."
EvE-online doesn't have levels or XP. It is possible that 3 noobs are able to kill 2 year old veteran if they coordinate their efforts. This wouldn't be possible in EQ, because of level difference. It is also possible that new player can effectively help their community where they belong, because you don't need to be in same level with others. EvE developers are forced to think differently, because they just can't add new levels and XP. They need to add political systems, stations and other new features to game, if they want to add content.
I think that eventually EvE will have same difficulties as other games. Slowly skills are coming more and more significant, and equipment differences are coming bigger and bigger. Only way to get high skills is to play long enough. Only way to get "good enough" equipment is to "grind" enough money to buy them. This seems to be still in control - but maybe someday it is also going to happen in EvE.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
Well said AKATAN!
Eve can be boring but that is because people choose to make it boring...
I love the serious penalties imposed by being podded... losing those implants hurts!
While not a perfect game (far from it) it is a game like no other out there right now
Most of the other games have little or no death penalty and thats fun for some but to me it gets old.
I just wish I actually had time to play again......
Witty saying to amuse you goes here.
Here's my take on why EVE is a continuing and on-going success:
1) Not much real competition. Sure there are TONS of MMORPG's out there but I can count on 1 hand the number of MMORPG's that I consider *worth* a monthly fee. And among those some are even borderline.
2) A dedicated team that has open and honest communications with it's players.
3) An evolving world that players can actually impact.
EVE isn't my thing. Which is why I play DAOC. But the bottom line is there just really isn't much competition for high quality MMORPG's out there. The ones I can think of that are WORTH a monthly fee over $10 a month (to me anyway) are:
EVE, DAOC, WoW, EQ2...
Ok so I can only think of 4 I'd be willing to pay for... Sad isn't it? And I've tried most MMORPG's out there so it's not like I haven't tried a lot of them. Prior to the NGE I would have had SWG in that list, despite it's many flaws the old SWG was a top notch MMORPG.
So while the MMORPG market has a lot of options out there EVE really doesn't have much competition in the subscription market. Now when you look at those 4 titles something stands out RIGHT AWAY: Only 1 is Sci-Fi.
That, imo, is the reason EVE continues to thrive. It's not like it's a blockbuster with over 500k subscribers and it's not like it got to it's current numbers overnight. It's a game that has slowly accumulated players over time. I do think they could have attracted players FASTER but at what cost to the game? I think one of the things that has helped CCP to keep EVE true to their vision over the past three years is specifically the fact that it's player base grew slowly rather than over night.
I think EVE is more a testament to the fact that a QUALITY game will attract players over time, no matter how much competition it has. While EVE isn't my thing I have continued to go back to it as, other than DAOC, it's the only MMORPG that I really WANT to enjoy.
All that said, if any of the upcoming sci-fi MMORPG's are good, EVE could start hemorhaging players fast. It's got enough aspects that frustrate the average gamer (which is specifically why it's grown very slowly) that a quality sci-fi offering (I'm watching Stargate personally) could wind up swiping a LOT of players very quickly.
Just my opinions.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
One thing I think has helped EVE is consistency.
The devs had a certain vision when they started the game and they have stuck with it. There have been calls for avatars so people could get out of their ships, but the devs have stated that it is not going to happen. While this may seem like a small point it shows that EVE is not going to dumb its self down to appeal to the masses.
While there have been changes to the game since it started no change has been made to the fundamental aspects of the game. So the players know that down the road they will not have the game morph into something else ( *Cough SWG Cough*).
EVE has built up a following that likes the way the game is. The players know that in the future the basic game will still be there and all their work setting up their ships, Corps, and bases will not be tossed out the window because of changes to try to get more $$$$$.
Support Bacteria, its the only culture some people have.
One word: 'Sandbox'
Imo, a properly designed sandbox game will eventually attract mmo players looking for a deeper character development experience.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Because it offers what alot of people want that no other mmorpg offers ie.
etc etc.
No other mmorpg offers what it does, so the people that want it they will play EVE.
I mean i wanna know why WOW is soo successful?
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Don't click here...no2
Anyways EVE's success could be good for the mmorpg genre, will open publishers minds to the fact that there is a market for this stuff.
SWG's NGE failure is also good for the genre, just proves that not everyone wants EQ/WOW.
Thats why i support EVE soo much.
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Don't click here...no2
A very good point...
As I mentioned I do also play WoW which is a nice diversion from EVE... and you are right the levelling system does tend to split and divide friends based on time commitments.
Amarr Victor
Yup, I play both WoW and Eve myself.
Between the two, I get my mmo fix all around. While Eve provides a deeper experience, WoW offers an immediate fun factor.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Having played serveral MMOs including EA, SOE and Blizz its safe to asert that **overall** there is a greater maturity to the players in Eve.
I've posted before about kiddies in online games, the kiddie txt speaking morons are at a minimum in this game. The "just add water" instant gratification types are often the quickest to slam EVE as well (which is why a lot of people like it).
A few years back game makers saw us bitching about UO and EQ saying it was too hard. So they made a bunch of things easy. Unfortunately, millions of dollars in research has failed to reveal there is an inverse proportional relationship between how easy it is to breeze through content and how connected one feels with their character. Not to mention there hasn't been a new game offered since UO and EQ when you stop and look at it (just many many clones).
Those who don't get eve dont get the fact that the players themselves make the content. WoW and most games out there are just a series of straight line quests that offer the illusion of diversity. There's nothing really changing your experience from someone elses' until you factor in other players......with Eve it starts with the players.
For the most part your quest system is your corp, your goals and objectives are your corp's and your sense of accomplishments come from your corp. Other then a bit of ratting your sense of accomplishments often come at felling your foes which are often --- other corps / players.
You can't place the standard castes on Eve online. People play this game because its truly unique, truly an online "world". You won't see it all, experience it all and oft times its hard to get stuff accomplished.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
#4 was actually my main reason for quitting EVE. I felt it ruined the game, especially PvP, always worried about losing so much. I'd be suprised if thier harsh death penalty hasn't cost them more players than gained.
Edit - Oh, and re:#1 (rivalry), what about Jumpgate, which I just noticed a featured mmorpg.com article on? I never tried it, never even heard of it untill I got into AA. Right off, I can see the graphics don't even compare to EVE's, but it looks like it might have been pretty good in its time - which unlike EVE, appears long past..?
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/19/23
The freedom to be able to do anything...being able to do things like what the magazine above talks about is why the game is doing so well.Also love the game or hate it you got to respect CCP for making a good product even if its not for you. I like the the fact that you don't have to pay for a 60 dollar box and all expansion and future expansions are free.
If you look up interviews, any successful bank robber will tell you that eventually its not about the money but the thrill. Some will tell you its more rush and high is more powerful then any drug out there. And being a corp theif in eve (yes i am/been one) is the virtual equivalent to being a RL bank robber.Also its one of those proffession in eve that doesn't mater how much isk you have or character skill but soley requires player intellegence and personal skill to achieve. mmm...just thinking about it..its sweet, the high last for quite a while.
No, they have over 100k subs, but have had 23k players online at once. Those numbers may not compare to the biggest MMOs, but they're way better than the smallest, and more notably, growing, not diminishing. Compare to a game like DAOC, which has had upwards of 100k online at once, during thier peak of popularity, but currently have 20-25% as many, stretched across numerous servers. A bigger game overall, but in the time EVE's doubled population, DAOC's lost 70% of thier's.
DAOC probably costs quite a bit more to run, also. I bet that taking CCP's overhead into account, they're doing exceptionally well financially. They're not like Blizzard or SOE with a massive team to pay.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.