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[Column] General: Dave Georgeson Writes About 15 Years of Virtual Worlds



  • axefuryaxefury Member UncommonPosts: 2
    This was an excellent article.
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    I give him credit for wading into the barbaric, high adventure discourse that is MMORPG.com
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • raapnaapraapnaap Member UncommonPosts: 455

    It's always interesting to read the thoughts of an industry insider (and a veteran one at that).


    But as most gamers can tell, many developers do not agree with a lot of Dave's views, specifically in area's such as communication. There is no universal handbook on how to run your game development company that everyone follows.


    Fortunately (or unfortunately?), this difference in development companies is what separates failures from success stories.

  • tordurbartordurbar Member UncommonPosts: 421
    Good article. I must say from Dave's Landmark video's I expected him to be over the top but his comments here show there is a deeper side to the man. Good read.
  • KnyttaKnytta Member UncommonPosts: 411
    I appreciated your comments about the business side of game development. A Very interesting article and it is good that you continue to communicate with the players. Thanks!

    Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.

    He who can describe the flame does not burn.


  • IlayaIlaya Member UncommonPosts: 659
    Originally posted by axefury
    This was an excellent article.

    This +1 !!! Nailed it on the point.

    Thanks a Ton for that.

  • JaedorJaedor Member UncommonPosts: 1,173
    Awesome article, can't wait for the next one!
  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 Member UncommonPosts: 2,770
    This insight is just too good for a few articles for MMORPG.com. Dave should write a book! It would be worth it.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,381
    Originally posted by Neanderthal

    I'd just like to point out a couple of things which jumped out at me from that article.


    The first is where he said:

    "Gamers will always want new challenges and new experiences.  Thus, devs are always required to plunge into untried R&D territory to make it happen."


    And yet, the most common complaint we see on these forums is that developers have been rehashing the same ol' thing over and over again for years.  You've all seen multitudes of post bitching about how all mmo's for years have just been the same game reskinned.  Maybe the graphics have improved.  Certainly the map layout is different.  But basically it's just the same crap over and over again.  So my question is; where the hell is all this "new" stuff which devs have always been required to plunge into?  Are they hiding it under a rock somewhere?


    The second thing which jumped out at me was where he said, "Don't screw up your core gameplay".  A statement which seems a bit ironic to me considering that he worked for SOE.

    His comments and "the reality" aren't mutually exclusive.

    Maybe the developers knew that they needed to plunge into untried R&D territory but weren't allowed to do it so had to find some sort of happy medium that hopefully worked?

    And maybe the years as SOE drove home that screwing up core game play would cost you but it was a balancing act to get good core game play.


    Reminds me of the time I mentioned that I beta tested Masters of Orion III on some forum.  It was released in a horrible state.

    Someone commented that I and other other beta testers obviously didn't do our job. But we did, we just had no power to actually make changes.

    Who knows what battles go on in AAA development studios where they want to be cutting edge (as per the article) but their overlords don't want to bring the studio down (which is reasonable).

  • darkness2468darkness2468 Member UncommonPosts: 47
    Thanks for the article Dave it was a brilliant insight into the gaming dev industry, hope to hear more stories from you.


  • monarc333monarc333 Member UncommonPosts: 622
    That was very enlightening. Hope to see more from him. Always appreciate insight into the hobby I love.
  • DarkholmeDarkholme Member UncommonPosts: 1,212
    Great article Dave! Good luck to you and I am looking forward to seeing what you do next! i WILL BE THERE!

    "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"

    Member Since March 2004

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,814
    Originally posted by Tracho12

    Because it bears worth repeating...

    Either Smokejumper is legit or he's the best snake-oil salesman this world has ever seen. Either way, someone get this man a job.

    I've always thought that that, if Dave wasn't a snake-oil salesman in a former life, it was because the universe miss-handled his reincarnation.

    I didn't always agree with his direction and ideas, but I always admired his ability to put a positive spin on things.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • PulsarManPulsarMan Member Posts: 289
    Best of luck to you, Dave. I can't wait to see what you work on next. :) 
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242

    It´s all nice and sexy, but I would want to know (if possible? - maybe Dave is not in position to speak openly about these) more details about some unpleasant EQN topics such as rumored budget cuts (back in Sony days) and it´s consequences for original EQN vision, eventual internal (and possibly broken?) deadlines, his opinion about layoffs and ESPECIALLY his opinion on where is EQN going to end?

    Otherwise this will turn into pleasant but somewhat abstract chit-chat.


  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,434

    One of the best articles I have ever read on this site!   I doubt anyone has to worry what will happen with Dave because no doubt he will land on his feet.  

    Just let us know here first what your new project will be. 

  • superconductingsuperconducting Member UncommonPosts: 871

    I have 2 things to say :

    1. Last week, EQN did not just have great losses. EQN lost greats.

    2. What's Next for Dave Georgeson (no pun intended)?


  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,284
    Thanks for the article, Dave. An extremely interesting read. Keep the articles coming, it really helps us as fans to know some of the thought process that goes into decisions made in the background.
  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904

    Good writeup.

    Still cant believe they fired you man :(

    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • AgeniAgeni Member UncommonPosts: 41
    Nice read. I hope Dave will find some good job with good people like Dexella/Terry etc....!
  • AnakamiAnakami Member Posts: 103
    Great read. Dave, with your work over the years you made lots of people dream. Thank you for that, and keep being awesome :)
  • LegereLegere Member UncommonPosts: 123

    I took a few things away from this article. 

    one was where he talked about talent a b c grade etc.. I asked myself did soe have the talent for eq2 to take on warcraft.. well, i got to play both at launch and i chose eq2 and was a sub until the end of the kunark expansion.. eq2 was awesome to that stage.. so yes, to start with, they had the talent.

    but like big convenience stores going out of business because they do not sell online, so did eq2 fail to change with the modern times. there were no dungeon finders, raid finders, meaningful pvp, even the basics such as multicore cpu support.  i recently returned to eq2 and found the game a former shell of itself... characters so OP they could solo 4x raids.. levelling so fast you could do it in a weekend.. graphics so dated I would have been ashamed to show it to friends, a dungeon finder system limited to a handful of the dozens of dungeons available... the entire essence of the game has been lost.. its such a shame because the original experience was so different and so good.  in contrast, you look at what GW2 has done and it plays great, looks amazing and even newbie zones are populated with new and old. its but an example of a modern implementation that works.  the 202 million $ in sales for gw2 confirms it.  and then in the works we have landmark... which not only looks worse, plays worse and feels subpar compared to gw2, i only but wonder how the guys at soe think their game is going to make it big?? no bloody way, hozay.

    i look at landmark and i cant help but think how great something like that would have been for housing in ultima online...and in reality thats all it is.. a housing system.  needed? YES, but to this extent?  no.. not at launch anyway.  the focus is completely off EQN and all about this incredible crafting tool that seems all a bit overkill. from a player perspective, the feeling is 2 fold. on one side, its just incredible to to have tools like this in a game, but on the flipside, it seems to come at the cost of just about everything else.  years and years into dev for eqn, we have no zones, we have no list of chars, we dont have incredible graphics, we have pretty damn weak combat systems.. basically we have a game that just wont stand up to the competition. 

    SOOOOOO with that whitewizzardwalloftext, DaveG, that was meant for you. My feeling is that under your lead things did not go the right direction. I feel your ambitions may have been too great for the team you had to work with, which is why I feel you opened this article with quality teams in different circumstances.  I feel for you, because should you had the talent at Arena net and the workforce at Blizzard with the brains of SOE at your disposal, I think we would have had a hell of a game.

    I did not play EQ1, but I would thank you for the many years I spent in EQ2. I loved so many things about it and is one of two games (UO) that I've spent many years of my life in.  Well done, and can't wait to see what you do down the road.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,808

    Well, I can see why this guy was tapped for his position.  His outward face is great.  Really nicely written article.  Even though none of his games were ones that I played, the descriptions of the nuts and bolts stuff was quite interesting.


    Since this is a public forum, we'll probably never get the 'who screwed up, what really went down' story.   But this walk through the mechanics of construction and the ebb and flow of design was well worth it.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534

    Good read.

    Even if I'm not a big fan of the games you were over, your passion reminds me why I love this genre.

    Hope you land on your feet.

  • KostKost Member CommonPosts: 1,975

    By far the most articulate and intelligent article this site has seen in years, truly an enjoyable and enlightening read.

    Thanks for everything Dave, looking forward to seeing you working on new projects in the future. Hope everything is well with you and the family. Take care sir.

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