Why is the vast majority of people hating on WoW so much. I've been reading these boards for a long time and it never ceases to amaze me how in almost EVERY SINGLE thread people never fail to throw in some insult directed towards WoW - e.g. Wow ruined this, wow ruined that, EQ/UO/DAOC/SWG did everything better but WoW broke everything, WoW is cheap, WoW is a casualised mess etc.
Why does everyone hate WoW so much? What was so bad about WoW? When WoW launched it played very differently to all the MMOs in the market. WoW was not like EQ. WoW was not like UO. WOW was not like SWG. WoW was not like DAoC. WoW was not like Lineage 2. Do I need to carry on? WoW was very unique in its approach to levelling. WoW had an amazing combat system. IT was fluid, engaging, unique. WoW had an amazing atmosphere, it had tons of quests, a lot of them had great stories. I was never bored when levelling in WoW. I levelled 3, YES THREE, heroes to lvl 60 during vanilla and was never bored during the levelling process.
Everyone I spoke to at the time loved WoW. Even my friends who have never tried MMOs or didn't like games like EQ loved WoW and I even know people who dropped all other gaming for that game.
So why do you guys hate so much on WoW? Was it not one of the most fun MMOs when it launched? How many of you loved playing WoW for the first time when it launched? HOw many of you spent countless hours playing WoW? How many of you played more than 1k hours? IF you played WoW for a huge number of hours and enjoyed it, why are you hating on it now? I personally don't understand it. I have spent countless hours playing WoW and I loved my gaming experience when I played WoW for the first time. I would never hate on a game which has given me so many fun times and really good memories. So why are you guys trashing WoW left and right? Did you never enjoy playing WoW?
I dont hate wow but right now there are many issues which prevent me from enjoying pvp. Wow's PVE is an entirely different story though.
1) Devs Ignoring the state of certain specs even when the thread is capped out and full of `good suggestions`
2) CCs were promised to get toned down but it remains the same or even worse...,
3) Arena PVP revolves around training the healer, refer to the above vid. Have you ever seen wow championship 2014 push push vs skilled capped eu? That is the pvp i wanted to see, not PVEing the healer.
4) PVP generally favors melee. Spell lockouts are relevant during times where chaos bolts could take out chunks of your life. With the removal of disarms, there is nothing that could virtually stop a melee from decimating you except for hard ccs(insert healer dispels, cc breakers here)
*Fun fact: Lockout have no DRS , you could get kicked and the moment the lockout ends and u freecast, you could get counterspelld, woohooo
5) They wanted casters to cast like those early expacs but melee still remained on mop standards.
Played the shit outta this game, its just sad that it have come to this sorry state. WOD is suppose to be an improvement and now i kinda missed MOP, badly.......
I guess i hate WOW for bringing in the unwashed masses that don't belong here and the game companies that do everything to please them enough to stay around.
The undying fans is why. Those that still play it for whatever reason. Knowing it is outdated. Knowing it will not get better, but we must push on....is why. Knowing that they will continue to make x packs, and the undying fans will still buy them is why. The fact that thousands of WoW cheerleaders are what is keeping it #1.
Not because it's a great game
Not because it rivals anything out now
Just because it has thousands of brain dead zombies keeping the dying ship afloat....
Wow, another one of those!
So, just because you don't like it, anyone that does has to be a brain dead zombie for doing so?
Pretty much the point of this thread I guess, why do people who don't like the game feel that they have to drop in and make remarks like that, what is it about this game that makes people so emotional that they feel they have to make the point that they don't like it so strongly rather than just move along and enjoy a game they do like?
No amount of venom or bile will change the fact that this has been and still is a well polished, popular game and also the fact that it won't please everyone, but if that is the case, just let it go and move on.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Originally posted by NorseGod I guess i hate WOW for bringing in the unwashed masses that don't belong here and the game companies that do everything to please them enough to stay around.
So who do you consider 'worthy' of a place in your gaming world?
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I think too many CONFUSE hate with simply not liking the game design.
I don't like Wow one bit,i think it is a crap game design,but i don't hate the game nor do i hate Blizzard i just feel Blizzard's games are not very good.
I really couldn't care less who makes what game nor do i care what the genre is,if a game is really well designed i will play it.
Having said that i have on occasion's played some shallow games just for a quick gaming fix,but just because i played them does not mean i would start handing out accolades for great game design,nor does it mean i HATE any game.
Matter of fact i have been or was depending on mood playing a Blizzard game ,Hearthstone,i have all the cards,played it a fair bit.However the game itself is a bad design and the way Blizzard operates it is a very weak to lazy.
If you look at ALL of Blizzard,it is the community who does more for the games than Blizzard does.That really shows how shallow the developer is,they make multi millions but put very little back into it.
Without getting into EVERY little detail,i can point to just one.Wow and Blizzard's design is nothing more than a connect the dot's leveling system.If you were an actual character in a world you would NOT follow a connect the dot's,it is everything a RPG should NOT be.People can use terms like Sandbox or Themepark,none of that matters to me,if you CLAIM the game is a RPG,it had better be designed like one and connect the dots questing is NOT.
Then to further degrade the RP aspect of game design,they toss XP in with those quests,wtf?Experience is suppose to be an indication of your characters ability,skill,handing xp for running some errand does not make you a better Shaman or Druid or whatever.So what Blizzard has simply done is create levels and a system to gain levels,they have NOT done anything to reinforce a RPG.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
2. cause some blame WoW for no Warcraft 4, whether that is true or not i don't know. we will see once StarCraft 2 trilogy is done.
3. cause it shifted the genre toward wow clones unintentionally.
personally i still like WoW but story-wise it got worse. it wasn't exactly a masterpiece but it got worse in recent years and it wasn't just WoW. other Blizzard games like Diablo 3 and SC2: Heart of the Swarm got the same treatment and now they are going toward "almost no story" with cards and MOBA.
1. No
2. No again
3. Yes
Did you mean Diablo2 and not 3? Cause I'm confused about the MOBA and no story part. All of the Diablo series had a great story...not sure if people cared enough though.
Oh...and no cards needed...
1. i have seen people that haven't even played the game and just hate it and blizzard for no reason among other kinds of people. it is a bandwagon thing.
2. i also have seen people that blame WoW for no Warcraft 4 and i am sure if you search there are posts like "please no more wow just give us Warcraft 4 already" stuff around.
i am talking about Diablo 3 alone in the diablo series. if you liked the story in Diablo 3 then good for you. some cared for the story, most probably not sadly. doesn't mean they should lower the quality.
as for cards i am talking about Hearthstone. things like Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm don't need any story thanks to their genre so it makes things a lot easier in that aspect.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
It began long.... long time ago.... Blizzard started first... their first attack on the community it is a silly thing that they called: BATTLEGROUNDS or BG's... BG's was literally a blizzard's slap to the face to the "first" community of World of Warcraft...
Before BGs, people used to gather together to start a Raid to the contrarior Faction... It was amazing, you had your screen flooded with text msgs telling you that Tarren Mill, Xroads, Ashenvale, Orgrimmar, Undercity, etc etc... were under heavy attack... So , you had your team of friends and strangers gathering together to counterattack. The game was itself a BIG community of friends and foes... you had a reason to be someone: they killed your warchief, for example.
Blizzard's first strike to avoid people's counterattack, was called DISHONORABLE KILL. Everytime that you've killed a NPC, you get points removed: PVP Points or whatever they are called today... Community reaction was clear: STOP DOING RAIDS... STOP GATHERING.... STOP PLAYING.... Stop having fun....
Then I, and some others started asking: "Why do we have in the WoW First INTRO, the msg: THE DRUMS OF WAR THUNDER ONCE AGAIN?"
I remember reading on the wow forums: "BRING BACK THE WAR IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT" over and over again.... Blizzard second slap was being told by its forum moderators: "IT IS WORKING AS INTENDED", "WE, the developers, believe that OUR game represents OUR philosophy of how a MMO should be"
The ugly and putrid face of blizzard's arrogance was being unmask... by themselves....
Hidden within the sillies BG's was something really amazing... A unique battleground of epic proportions.. its name: ALTERAC VALLEY.... or AV... Basically, av was an excuse to have a bunch of people having fun for hours... or should I say, FOR DAYS? You could summons Gods of Earth and Forest, you could summon wolf/ram riders; and finally, you were fighting the foes of the other faction, the ones that u once were fighting in the OPEN WORLD, in your own town, in your own city steps....
Blizzard third slap: They removed the gods, the raiders, they removed the FIGHT and WAR and turned it into a RACE... A PvE Race of DISASTROUS Proportions... Their excuse: "It is too much to handle it", "WE BELIEVE that a BG should NOT last long, anyway" their forum moderators said to us...
Ironically, they were removing all the fun of the game to turned into a JOB... People started abandoning the BG's to do some PvE Raids then, which was Blizzard's malevolus intentions in first place... To this point to the actual game right now, is history... Blizzard was determined to tie the hands of the community to do THEIR WILL, to play by its understanding and point of view of FUN.
WHAT HAPPEN NEXT? A lot of pleople started to drop off of the game, like today... And it will continue this way... the bad news for them, is that they gathered a VERY BAD REPUTATION for IGNORING its playerbase, and for being arrogant...
FINALLY, "...Somethings that shouldn't been forgotten, were lost..." as is lost the future of this game right now...
Nerfed toy duration,because the cosmetic change doesn't "fit" with their vision.
Removed flying in Draenor (I know, dead horse)
Removed a massive amount of class abilities in a poor attempt to clean up clutter
Trivialized heroic dungeons ( lol LFR)
Added Garrisons, which are about as optional as pants
Talent trees provide no real options, just cookie cutter at best or it doesn't matter
Lore is missing, I have no idea why Highmaul is a raid dungeon, other than "Ogres are bad, mkay"
Added followers and missions, which serve as vending machines for gear and gold, and remove any value that may have been added by "earning" it
In short, the magic is gone. The developers are lost to their own hubris, convinced that they know what best for the game. They have ignored the player feedback from beta on, because they think that they have all the answers. The developer post that made me cancel was this one:
"We just want there to be some kind of order to how characters in the game look. Even with the current restrictions you can do some pretty crazy stuff, but that doesn't mean it should necessarily be anything goes. And it's a big new(ish) system with potentially far reaching consequences if we're not careful. At least to start. We've pretty frequently made changes to the rules to allow more transmog options, and that's likely to continue. Over a slightly longer term we think there should be a more defined system around transmog, with more defined paths of gameplay to specific options and looks. It's not news it's something we've been working on, and we're continuing to work on it." - Bashiok
This response to a player about a class set that cannot be used for simple vanity purposes, simply because it doesn't fit in their vison. Furthermore, Bashiok expands that, saying that they want a defined system for vanity options, with defined paths. All the players want is the restrictions removed, so they are free to customize their character as they please.
I've played since patch 2.3, had a lot of fun, but there is no fun left.
I don't hate WoW, I hate the devs. They took a good, fun game and ruined it.
Nerfed toy duration,because the cosmetic change doesn't "fit" with their vision.
Removed flying in Draenor (I know, dead horse)
Removed a massive amount of class abilities in a poor attempt to clean up clutter
Trivialized heroic dungeons ( lol LFR)
Added Garrisons, which are about as optional as pants
Talent trees provide no real options, just cookie cutter at best or it doesn't matter
Lore is missing, I have no idea why Highmaul is a raid dungeon, other than "Ogres are bad, mkay"
Added followers and missions, which serve as vending machines for gear and gold, and remove any value that may have been added by "earning" it
In short, the magic is gone. The developers are lost to their own hubris, convinced that they know what best for the game. They have ignored the player feedback from beta on, because they think that they have all the answers. The developer post that made me cancel was this one:
"We just want there to be some kind of order to how characters in the game look. Even with the current restrictions you can do some pretty crazy stuff, but that doesn't mean it should necessarily be anything goes. And it's a big new(ish) system with potentially far reaching consequences if we're not careful. At least to start. We've pretty frequently made changes to the rules to allow more transmog options, and that's likely to continue. Over a slightly longer term we think there should be a more defined system around transmog, with more defined paths of gameplay to specific options and looks. It's not news it's something we've been working on, and we're continuing to work on it." - Bashiok
This response to a player about a class set that cannot be used for simple vanity purposes, simply because it doesn't fit in their vison. Furthermore, Bashiok expands that, saying that they want a defined system for vanity options, with defined paths. All the players want is the restrictions removed, so they are free to customize their character as they please.
I've played since patch 2.3, had a lot of fun, but there is no fun left.
I don't hate WoW, I hate the devs. They took a good, fun game and ruined it.
They've been doing this a lot longer than WoD... goes way back.... way way back. Last good-ish expansion was WotLK, and that expansion started the downward spiral. This is what WoW is now. It's not the old WoW. It will never be the old WoW again... no matter what PR spin they put on it. You either like this or you don't. If you don't, don't expect the next patch or expansion to be any different... because it isn't.
Most people picked up on this a long time ago and really haven't returned... maybe dabble in it when they are brain-dead bored, but not seriously playing it in any capacity at all. Could care less if the servers were up or down... that level of interest.
Originally posted by Bladestrom personally, its not WOW, its the greed of blizzard. investing 10% or so of your monthly sub back into the game and absorbing the rest as pure profit is nasty.
Boom.^ That all in a nut shell
They are by far the most greedy company to date. They simplified warcraft to where I can barely stand it at end game. Cata was a huge let down. 9+ months without any updates? Okay. Now, They introduced a cash shop for a Subscription based game. Level your toon instantly to 90 with one payment of 59.99?" Hah. what happened to playing the full game through? Show me the lore. Nope. Not blizzard. Just jump right in if you can afford it. And PVP is still unbalanced. STILL.it rubs players the wrong way/ Are they doing anything about that? NOPE
They destroyed the Diablo franchise; a franchise I grew up on. Why? because of the RMT auction house.Sure, they did away with it for RoS but they introduced ONE new class? What? D2 LOD introduced two new classes off the cuff. They didn't have a problem there. Yet now they introduce one? I'm not even going to mention the joke that is the skill tree. There is absolutely no reason for you to create two of the same toon. Zero. That type of "creativity" makes ZERO sense to me. Everyone running around using the same builds more so than not. Is that creativity or is that greed? Is there another expansion coming? Probably. Do I care? Fool me twice, and attempt a third.
The new SC2 expansion is being released as a stand alone game? "Dude, I own both games why do I have to shell out 60 for an expansion?" Nope. Not going to be doing that either.
That's why all the hate for WOW. It is NOT the same game I played in 2008, and that is why I hate it. That is why all my friends dropped it after black foundry was released.
There may not be a "WoW Killer," But blizzard is definitely no longer the company that cares and caters to their player base. The only "WoW killer is them." They butchered pretty much every franchise that I once loved.
"Everything the light touches is our kingdom" -- Mufasa ---
Blizzard is pretty much just taking new trends, then making it more simple so a toddler can understand it and make bucks from it. Once Blizzard can't take what other developers are doing, then we'll probably see how creatively limited they are nowadays. It's not even worth ''hating'' or giving them criticism anymore, because they're not likely ever to go back to Wrath and pre-Wrath. Now they're going to release expansions sooner, so they can make a quicker buck than ever before.
Instead of coming up with more interesting talent trees, they came up with the bright idea to use Diablo 3 as inspiration.
Blizzard is pretty much just taking new trends, then making it more simple so a toddler can understand it and make bucks from it. Once Blizzard can't take what other developers are doing, then we'll probably see how creatively limited they are nowadays. It's not even worth ''hating'' or giving them criticism anymore, because they're not likely ever to go back to Wrath and pre-Wrath. Now they're going to release expansions sooner, so they can make a quicker buck than ever before.
Instead of coming up with more interesting talent trees, they came up with the bright idea to use Diablo 3 as inspiration.
Vanilla and TBC were very different back in the day. Vanilla was very grindy but had this more of a slow feel where everything took ages to do. TBC introduced some INSANE grind. The raiding progression was just all too much. Our guild always struggled to have enough people who had all the attunements and the right gear. Also TBC raids were so much more complicated than MC, BWL, AQ40. Vanilla took tons of "preparation" work though.
Not sure why you mention Wrath as that expansion was the one that was seen as introducing all the easy mode stuff. Wrath was like a cake walk compared to Vanila's endless grind for preparing for raids and organising 40 people, and TBC's brutal grinds and endless raid gearing up to be able to beat Sunwell.
Only interesting raid I can think from Wrath was Ulduar. I was so excited for Naxx as I really wanted to play it in Vanilla but my guild never made it there. But it was sooooooo easy comig from Sunwell. Also levelling was made incredibly easy. Wrath was the expansion which made me unsubscribe after 2-3 mnoths after its launch only to come back for the "update" patches. I was subbed throughout all of vanilla and TBC without my sub ever lapsing!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It began long.... long time ago.... Blizzard started first... their first attack on the community it is a silly thing that they called: BATTLEGROUNDS or BG's... BG's was literally a blizzard's slap to the face to the "first" community of World of Warcraft...
Before BGs, people used to gather together to start a Raid to the contrarior Faction... It was amazing, you had your screen flooded with text msgs telling you that Tarren Mill, Xroads, Ashenvale, Orgrimmar, Undercity, etc etc... were under heavy attack... So , you had your team of friends and strangers gathering together to counterattack. The game was itself a BIG community of friends and foes... you had a reason to be someone: they killed your warchief, for example.
Vanilla WoW's world PvP was my most fun PVP experience in an MMO. It was so EPIC and massive. We had these massive 200-300 raids and the server crashed all the time but it was so much fun and so epic. I wasn't a huge fan of bgs But the old AV was fun
Blizzard's first strike to avoid people's counterattack, was called DISHONORABLE KILL. Everytime that you've killed a NPC, you get points removed: PVP Points or whatever they are called today... Community reaction was clear: STOP DOING RAIDS... STOP GATHERING.... STOP PLAYING.... Stop having fun....
Then I, and some others started asking: "Why do we have in the WoW First INTRO, the msg: THE DRUMS OF WAR THUNDER ONCE AGAIN?"
I remember reading on the wow forums: "BRING BACK THE WAR IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT" over and over again.... Blizzard second slap was being told by its forum moderators: "IT IS WORKING AS INTENDED", "WE, the developers, believe that OUR game represents OUR philosophy of how a MMO should be"
The ugly and putrid face of blizzard's arrogance was being unmask... by themselves....
Hidden within the sillies BG's was something really amazing... A unique battleground of epic proportions.. its name: ALTERAC VALLEY.... or AV... Basically, av was an excuse to have a bunch of people having fun for hours... or should I say, FOR DAYS? You could summons Gods of Earth and Forest, you could summon wolf/ram riders; and finally, you were fighting the foes of the other faction, the ones that u once were fighting in the OPEN WORLD, in your own town, in your own city steps....
Blizzard third slap: They removed the gods, the raiders, they removed the FIGHT and WAR and turned it into a RACE... A PvE Race of DISASTROUS Proportions... Their excuse: "It is too much to handle it", "WE BELIEVE that a BG should NOT last long, anyway" their forum moderators said to us...
Ironically, they were removing all the fun of the game to turned into a JOB... People started abandoning the BG's to do some PvE Raids then, which was Blizzard's malevolus intentions in first place... To this point to the actual game right now, is history... Blizzard was determined to tie the hands of the community to do THEIR WILL, to play by its understanding and point of view of FUN.
WHAT HAPPEN NEXT? A lot of pleople started to drop off of the game, like today... And it will continue this way... the bad news for them, is that they gathered a VERY BAD REPUTATION for IGNORING its playerbase, and for being arrogant...
YOu miss that part where the game still provided tons of epic moments for a LONG (and by I long I mean FREAKING LONG) time. True world pvp and AV were gone but there were tons of other epic moments too. The constantly raging Blackrock Mountain PvP was fun. It was a place of constant PvP war because all the highend instances and raids were there for a time.
Then there were tons of epic raids - MC, BWL, AQ40, Naxx, SUnwell, Kara, BT, the eye, SSC.
Did I mention the PvP trolling around the Emerald dragons or the crazyness that was the AQ event?
FINALLY, "...Somethings that shouldn't been forgotten, were lost..." as is lost the future of this game right now...
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I played EQ religiously for almost a decade. Then a host of other games. Never played wow though except tried it in an EMU. Not my thing nor was Diablo. Blizzard is quite successful but it produces games that are not my cup o tea.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Blizzard is pretty much just taking new trends, then making it more simple so a toddler can understand it and make bucks from it. Once Blizzard can't take what other developers are doing, then we'll probably see how creatively limited they are nowadays. It's not even worth ''hating'' or giving them criticism anymore, because they're not likely ever to go back to Wrath and pre-Wrath. Now they're going to release expansions sooner, so they can make a quicker buck than ever before.
Instead of coming up with more interesting talent trees, they came up with the bright idea to use Diablo 3 as inspiration.
Vanilla and TBC were very different back in the day. Vanilla was very grindy but had this more of a slow feel where everything took ages to do. TBC introduced some INSANE grind. The raiding progression was just all too much. Our guild always struggled to have enough people who had all the attunements and the right gear. Also TBC raids were so much more complicated than MC, BWL, AQ40. Vanilla took tons of "preparation" work though.
Not sure why you mention Wrath as that expansion was the one that was seen as introducing all the easy mode stuff. Wrath was like a cake walk compared to Vanila's endless grind for preparing for raids and organising 40 people, and TBC's brutal grinds and endless raid gearing up to be able to beat Sunwell.
Only interesting raid I can think from Wrath was Ulduar. I was so excited for Naxx as I really wanted to play it in Vanilla but my guild never made it there. But it was sooooooo easy comig from Sunwell. Also levelling was made incredibly easy. Wrath was the expansion which made me unsubscribe after 2-3 mnoths after its launch only to come back for the "update" patches. I was subbed throughout all of vanilla and TBC without my sub ever lapsing!
I pretty much agree with what you say about Vanilla and TBC, but personally our weekend raid didn't seem to have problems with people showing up for raids. They could probably have done attunements better, but i can't remember if i ever saw it as a bad thing. We managed to down C'thun in Vanilla, then some bosses in Naxx as well, but ultimately we were too late to finish the raid before TBC released. I still think we did well on Twins, considering we did it in 3 weekends and people were having a lot of trouble with it.
Wrath did have some redeeming factors, such as some class changes, raids like Ulduar and Icecrown, but i won't forgive them the filler like TotGC in place of a more Nerub focused raid / area. Granted that they really started to homogenize classes in Wrath, i think they at least went in the right direction with some despite their ''bring the player, not the class'' idea. The focus on Arthas is something else that kept me going in that expansion.
My journey ends shortly after Cataclysm releases. My guild had disbanded due to a lack of quality you could say, so my subscription ended in February 2011.
Blizzard is pretty much just taking new trends, then making it more simple so a toddler can understand it and make bucks from it. Once Blizzard can't take what other developers are doing, then we'll probably see how creatively limited they are nowadays. It's not even worth ''hating'' or giving them criticism anymore, because they're not likely ever to go back to Wrath and pre-Wrath. Now they're going to release expansions sooner, so they can make a quicker buck than ever before.
Instead of coming up with more interesting talent trees, they came up with the bright idea to use Diablo 3 as inspiration.
Vanilla and TBC were very different back in the day. Vanilla was very grindy but had this more of a slow feel where everything took ages to do. TBC introduced some INSANE grind. The raiding progression was just all too much. Our guild always struggled to have enough people who had all the attunements and the right gear. Also TBC raids were so much more complicated than MC, BWL, AQ40. Vanilla took tons of "preparation" work though.
Not sure why you mention Wrath as that expansion was the one that was seen as introducing all the easy mode stuff. Wrath was like a cake walk compared to Vanila's endless grind for preparing for raids and organising 40 people, and TBC's brutal grinds and endless raid gearing up to be able to beat Sunwell.
Only interesting raid I can think from Wrath was Ulduar. I was so excited for Naxx as I really wanted to play it in Vanilla but my guild never made it there. But it was sooooooo easy comig from Sunwell. Also levelling was made incredibly easy. Wrath was the expansion which made me unsubscribe after 2-3 mnoths after its launch only to come back for the "update" patches. I was subbed throughout all of vanilla and TBC without my sub ever lapsing!
I pretty much agree with what you say about Vanilla and TBC, but personally our weekend raid didn't seem to have problems with people showing up for raids. They could probably have done attunements better, but i can't remember if i ever saw it as a bad thing. We managed to down C'thun in Vanilla, then some bosses in Naxx as well, but ultimately we were too late to finish the raid before TBC released. I still think we did well on Twins, considering we did it in 3 weekends and people were having a lot of trouble with it.
Wrath did have some redeeming factors, such as some class changes, raids like Ulduar and Icecrown, but i won't forgive them the filler like TotGC in place of a more Nerub focused raid / area. Granted that they really started to homogenize classes in Wrath, i think they at least went in the right direction with some despite their ''bring the player, not the class'' idea. The focus on Arthas is something else that kept me going in that expansion.
My journey ends shortly after Cataclysm releases. My guild had disbanded due to a lack of quality you could say, so my subscription ended in February 2011.
If you did the Twins in 3 weekends, then you did REALLY WELL. Our guild struggled a lot on that one. WE did beat C'thun before TBC came out but we still struggled as not enough people had the gear for Naxx. And Naxx was brutal. Unlike in BWL and MC where you could have half of the raid carry the other half, Naxx was unforgiving. Everyone had to know what they were doing and the gear check was quite mean
Rereading my post it sounds like I hated TBC and Vanilla but I really loved the original game and TBC. I was having so much fun I didn't play any other game during my WoW time. But it's also my top gaming experience.
Cata literally took a shit on all the vanilla zones. Oh my god, how much I hate that expansion. MoP I could take. I actually didn't see any issue with MOP that much. It was just that CATA has already crapped all over all the zones and had those gimmicky talents and LFR (or was that MOP's doing?).
Wrath had as you said quite a lot of redeeming qualities - nice design, Ulduar, ICC but the LFG finder was it's doing.
Warlords of Draenor is not a bad expansion but after the damage that was done throughout the other 2 expansions and some of the damage Wrath did (mainly LFG finder).
If WoW just did TBC like expansions without the attunements but with the gear progression (e.g. new raid doesn't completely invalidate old raid, have a progression like in Vanilla - MC -> BWL -> AQ20/40 -> Naxx; or TBC's Kara -> SSC -> Eye -> BT -> Sunwell) I would probably still play. THe should've just stayed the same as Vanilla/TBC.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Exactly as really says Picard, this gas nothing to do with snobbery or any other projected chips on shoulder, it's about valid opinions about a 10 year old game earning 1 billion a year and th devs quite happy to suckle away with minimal investment for the next 10 years. Wether a pkayer enjoys if or not has nothing to do with the arguements raised especially when the answe to the arguement Is not counter arguement, it's fingers in ears and insult flinging.
Simply put any other game designer that done the same would be open for the same critisism, and blind defense matters little.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Snobs like to hate what is popular, be it a video game, a movie, a singer, etc...
They think they are better than everyone else for disliking what everyone else enjoys.
If that makes them a little happy in their bitterness, why not ;-)
That maybe how snobs feel, but a lot of gamers like myself have a overwhelming feeling of been there done that. Feelings that things keep getting simpler and simpler. From "dungeons over lunch" to the removal of arena gear ranking requirements to LFR. Also the removal of RPG elements like Locks needing to harvest soul stones.
WoW lost the ability to deliver the feeling of accomplishment for people like me. Yet we've seen developers do exactly as WoW has done over the past 6 years or so leaving the genre feel quite stall at times.
The simple honest question people should ask when evaluating blizzards ethics is this - does the content they provide equate to 1 billion a year revenue. The average AAA MMO takes 100-150 million to build from scratch with new tech.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom The simple honest question people should ask when evaluating blizzards ethics is this - does the content they provide equate to 1 billion a year revenue. The average AAA MMO takes 100-150 million to build from scratch with new tech.
Blizzard is not the only company to rake in that kind of revenue...
Comments
I dont hate wow but right now there are many issues which prevent me from enjoying pvp. Wow's PVE is an entirely different story though.
1) Devs Ignoring the state of certain specs even when the thread is capped out and full of `good suggestions`
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15699675341
2) CCs were promised to get toned down but it remains the same or even worse...,
3) Arena PVP revolves around training the healer, refer to the above vid. Have you ever seen wow championship 2014 push push vs skilled capped eu? That is the pvp i wanted to see, not PVEing the healer.
4) PVP generally favors melee. Spell lockouts are relevant during times where chaos bolts could take out chunks of your life. With the removal of disarms, there is nothing that could virtually stop a melee from decimating you except for hard ccs(insert healer dispels, cc breakers here)
*Fun fact: Lockout have no DRS , you could get kicked and the moment the lockout ends and u freecast, you could get counterspelld, woohooo
5) They wanted casters to cast like those early expacs but melee still remained on mop standards.
Played the shit outta this game, its just sad that it have come to this sorry state. WOD is suppose to be an improvement and now i kinda missed MOP, badly.......
Wow, another one of those!
So, just because you don't like it, anyone that does has to be a brain dead zombie for doing so?
Pretty much the point of this thread I guess, why do people who don't like the game feel that they have to drop in and make remarks like that, what is it about this game that makes people so emotional that they feel they have to make the point that they don't like it so strongly rather than just move along and enjoy a game they do like?
No amount of venom or bile will change the fact that this has been and still is a well polished, popular game and also the fact that it won't please everyone, but if that is the case, just let it go and move on.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
So who do you consider 'worthy' of a place in your gaming world?
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I think too many CONFUSE hate with simply not liking the game design.
I don't like Wow one bit,i think it is a crap game design,but i don't hate the game nor do i hate Blizzard i just feel Blizzard's games are not very good.
I really couldn't care less who makes what game nor do i care what the genre is,if a game is really well designed i will play it.
Having said that i have on occasion's played some shallow games just for a quick gaming fix,but just because i played them does not mean i would start handing out accolades for great game design,nor does it mean i HATE any game.
Matter of fact i have been or was depending on mood playing a Blizzard game ,Hearthstone,i have all the cards,played it a fair bit.However the game itself is a bad design and the way Blizzard operates it is a very weak to lazy.
If you look at ALL of Blizzard,it is the community who does more for the games than Blizzard does.That really shows how shallow the developer is,they make multi millions but put very little back into it.
Without getting into EVERY little detail,i can point to just one.Wow and Blizzard's design is nothing more than a connect the dot's leveling system.If you were an actual character in a world you would NOT follow a connect the dot's,it is everything a RPG should NOT be.People can use terms like Sandbox or Themepark,none of that matters to me,if you CLAIM the game is a RPG,it had better be designed like one and connect the dots questing is NOT.
Then to further degrade the RP aspect of game design,they toss XP in with those quests,wtf?Experience is suppose to be an indication of your characters ability,skill,handing xp for running some errand does not make you a better Shaman or Druid or whatever.So what Blizzard has simply done is create levels and a system to gain levels,they have NOT done anything to reinforce a RPG.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
1. i have seen people that haven't even played the game and just hate it and blizzard for no reason among other kinds of people. it is a bandwagon thing.
2. i also have seen people that blame WoW for no Warcraft 4 and i am sure if you search there are posts like "please no more wow just give us Warcraft 4 already" stuff around.
i am talking about Diablo 3 alone in the diablo series. if you liked the story in Diablo 3 then good for you. some cared for the story, most probably not sadly. doesn't mean they should lower the quality.
as for cards i am talking about Hearthstone. things like Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm don't need any story thanks to their genre so it makes things a lot easier in that aspect.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
It began long.... long time ago.... Blizzard started first... their first attack on the community it is a silly thing that they called: BATTLEGROUNDS or BG's... BG's was literally a blizzard's slap to the face to the "first" community of World of Warcraft...
Before BGs, people used to gather together to start a Raid to the contrarior Faction... It was amazing, you had your screen flooded with text msgs telling you that Tarren Mill, Xroads, Ashenvale, Orgrimmar, Undercity, etc etc... were under heavy attack... So , you had your team of friends and strangers gathering together to counterattack. The game was itself a BIG community of friends and foes... you had a reason to be someone: they killed your warchief, for example.
http://i.imgur.com/W58JzNQ.jpg?1
Blizzard's first strike to avoid people's counterattack, was called DISHONORABLE KILL. Everytime that you've killed a NPC, you get points removed: PVP Points or whatever they are called today... Community reaction was clear: STOP DOING RAIDS... STOP GATHERING.... STOP PLAYING.... Stop having fun....
Then I, and some others started asking: "Why do we have in the WoW First INTRO, the msg: THE DRUMS OF WAR THUNDER ONCE AGAIN?"
I remember reading on the wow forums: "BRING BACK THE WAR IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT" over and over again.... Blizzard second slap was being told by its forum moderators: "IT IS WORKING AS INTENDED", "WE, the developers, believe that OUR game represents OUR philosophy of how a MMO should be"
The ugly and putrid face of blizzard's arrogance was being unmask... by themselves....
http://imgur.com/W58JzNQ&BOFzbhW&xAGGanR&bpgLHvM#1
Hidden within the sillies BG's was something really amazing... A unique battleground of epic proportions.. its name: ALTERAC VALLEY.... or AV... Basically, av was an excuse to have a bunch of people having fun for hours... or should I say, FOR DAYS? You could summons Gods of Earth and Forest, you could summon wolf/ram riders; and finally, you were fighting the foes of the other faction, the ones that u once were fighting in the OPEN WORLD, in your own town, in your own city steps....
http://imgur.com/W58JzNQ&BOFzbhW&xAGGanR&bpgLHvM#3
Blizzard third slap: They removed the gods, the raiders, they removed the FIGHT and WAR and turned it into a RACE... A PvE Race of DISASTROUS Proportions... Their excuse: "It is too much to handle it", "WE BELIEVE that a BG should NOT last long, anyway" their forum moderators said to us...
Ironically, they were removing all the fun of the game to turned into a JOB... People started abandoning the BG's to do some PvE Raids then, which was Blizzard's malevolus intentions in first place... To this point to the actual game right now, is history... Blizzard was determined to tie the hands of the community to do THEIR WILL, to play by its understanding and point of view of FUN.
http://imgur.com/W58JzNQ&BOFzbhW&xAGGanR&bpgLHvM#2
WHAT HAPPEN NEXT? A lot of pleople started to drop off of the game, like today... And it will continue this way... the bad news for them, is that they gathered a VERY BAD REPUTATION for IGNORING its playerbase, and for being arrogant...
FINALLY, "...Somethings that shouldn't been forgotten, were lost..." as is lost the future of this game right now...
Blizz seems hellbent on nerfing fun.
Nerfed toy duration,because the cosmetic change doesn't "fit" with their vision.
Removed flying in Draenor (I know, dead horse)
Removed a massive amount of class abilities in a poor attempt to clean up clutter
Trivialized heroic dungeons ( lol LFR)
Added Garrisons, which are about as optional as pants
Talent trees provide no real options, just cookie cutter at best or it doesn't matter
Lore is missing, I have no idea why Highmaul is a raid dungeon, other than "Ogres are bad, mkay"
Added followers and missions, which serve as vending machines for gear and gold, and remove any value that may have been added by "earning" it
In short, the magic is gone. The developers are lost to their own hubris, convinced that they know what best for the game. They have ignored the player feedback from beta on, because they think that they have all the answers. The developer post that made me cancel was this one:
"We just want there to be some kind of order to how characters in the game look. Even with the current restrictions you can do some pretty crazy stuff, but that doesn't mean it should necessarily be anything goes. And it's a big new(ish) system with potentially far reaching consequences if we're not careful. At least to start. We've pretty frequently made changes to the rules to allow more transmog options, and that's likely to continue. Over a slightly longer term we think there should be a more defined system around transmog, with more defined paths of gameplay to specific options and looks. It's not news it's something we've been working on, and we're continuing to work on it." - Bashiok
This response to a player about a class set that cannot be used for simple vanity purposes, simply because it doesn't fit in their vison. Furthermore, Bashiok expands that, saying that they want a defined system for vanity options, with defined paths. All the players want is the restrictions removed, so they are free to customize their character as they please.
I've played since patch 2.3, had a lot of fun, but there is no fun left.
I don't hate WoW, I hate the devs. They took a good, fun game and ruined it.
They've been doing this a lot longer than WoD... goes way back.... way way back. Last good-ish expansion was WotLK, and that expansion started the downward spiral. This is what WoW is now. It's not the old WoW. It will never be the old WoW again... no matter what PR spin they put on it. You either like this or you don't. If you don't, don't expect the next patch or expansion to be any different... because it isn't.
Most people picked up on this a long time ago and really haven't returned... maybe dabble in it when they are brain-dead bored, but not seriously playing it in any capacity at all. Could care less if the servers were up or down... that level of interest.
Boom.^ That all in a nut shell
They are by far the most greedy company to date. They simplified warcraft to where I can barely stand it at end game. Cata was a huge let down. 9+ months without any updates? Okay. Now, They introduced a cash shop for a Subscription based game. Level your toon instantly to 90 with one payment of 59.99?" Hah. what happened to playing the full game through? Show me the lore. Nope. Not blizzard. Just jump right in if you can afford it. And PVP is still unbalanced. STILL.it rubs players the wrong way/ Are they doing anything about that? NOPE
They destroyed the Diablo franchise; a franchise I grew up on. Why? because of the RMT auction house.Sure, they did away with it for RoS but they introduced ONE new class? What? D2 LOD introduced two new classes off the cuff. They didn't have a problem there. Yet now they introduce one? I'm not even going to mention the joke that is the skill tree. There is absolutely no reason for you to create two of the same toon. Zero. That type of "creativity" makes ZERO sense to me. Everyone running around using the same builds more so than not. Is that creativity or is that greed? Is there another expansion coming? Probably. Do I care? Fool me twice, and attempt a third.
The new SC2 expansion is being released as a stand alone game? "Dude, I own both games why do I have to shell out 60 for an expansion?" Nope. Not going to be doing that either.
That's why all the hate for WOW. It is NOT the same game I played in 2008, and that is why I hate it. That is why all my friends dropped it after black foundry was released.
There may not be a "WoW Killer," But blizzard is definitely no longer the company that cares and caters to their player base. The only "WoW killer is them." They butchered pretty much every franchise that I once loved.
"Everything the light touches is our kingdom" -- Mufasa
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Blizzard is pretty much just taking new trends, then making it more simple so a toddler can understand it and make bucks from it. Once Blizzard can't take what other developers are doing, then we'll probably see how creatively limited they are nowadays. It's not even worth ''hating'' or giving them criticism anymore, because they're not likely ever to go back to Wrath and pre-Wrath. Now they're going to release expansions sooner, so they can make a quicker buck than ever before.
Instead of coming up with more interesting talent trees, they came up with the bright idea to use Diablo 3 as inspiration.
Vanilla and TBC were very different back in the day. Vanilla was very grindy but had this more of a slow feel where everything took ages to do. TBC introduced some INSANE grind. The raiding progression was just all too much. Our guild always struggled to have enough people who had all the attunements and the right gear. Also TBC raids were so much more complicated than MC, BWL, AQ40. Vanilla took tons of "preparation" work though.
Not sure why you mention Wrath as that expansion was the one that was seen as introducing all the easy mode stuff. Wrath was like a cake walk compared to Vanila's endless grind for preparing for raids and organising 40 people, and TBC's brutal grinds and endless raid gearing up to be able to beat Sunwell.
Only interesting raid I can think from Wrath was Ulduar. I was so excited for Naxx as I really wanted to play it in Vanilla but my guild never made it there. But it was sooooooo easy comig from Sunwell. Also levelling was made incredibly easy. Wrath was the expansion which made me unsubscribe after 2-3 mnoths after its launch only to come back for the "update" patches. I was subbed throughout all of vanilla and TBC without my sub ever lapsing!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
I pretty much agree with what you say about Vanilla and TBC, but personally our weekend raid didn't seem to have problems with people showing up for raids. They could probably have done attunements better, but i can't remember if i ever saw it as a bad thing. We managed to down C'thun in Vanilla, then some bosses in Naxx as well, but ultimately we were too late to finish the raid before TBC released. I still think we did well on Twins, considering we did it in 3 weekends and people were having a lot of trouble with it.
Wrath did have some redeeming factors, such as some class changes, raids like Ulduar and Icecrown, but i won't forgive them the filler like TotGC in place of a more Nerub focused raid / area. Granted that they really started to homogenize classes in Wrath, i think they at least went in the right direction with some despite their ''bring the player, not the class'' idea. The focus on Arthas is something else that kept me going in that expansion.
My journey ends shortly after Cataclysm releases. My guild had disbanded due to a lack of quality you could say, so my subscription ended in February 2011.
If you did the Twins in 3 weekends, then you did REALLY WELL. Our guild struggled a lot on that one. WE did beat C'thun before TBC came out but we still struggled as not enough people had the gear for Naxx. And Naxx was brutal. Unlike in BWL and MC where you could have half of the raid carry the other half, Naxx was unforgiving. Everyone had to know what they were doing and the gear check was quite mean
Rereading my post it sounds like I hated TBC and Vanilla but I really loved the original game and TBC. I was having so much fun I didn't play any other game during my WoW time. But it's also my top gaming experience.
Cata literally took a shit on all the vanilla zones. Oh my god, how much I hate that expansion. MoP I could take. I actually didn't see any issue with MOP that much. It was just that CATA has already crapped all over all the zones and had those gimmicky talents and LFR (or was that MOP's doing?).
Wrath had as you said quite a lot of redeeming qualities - nice design, Ulduar, ICC but the LFG finder was it's doing.
Warlords of Draenor is not a bad expansion but after the damage that was done throughout the other 2 expansions and some of the damage Wrath did (mainly LFG finder).
If WoW just did TBC like expansions without the attunements but with the gear progression (e.g. new raid doesn't completely invalidate old raid, have a progression like in Vanilla - MC -> BWL -> AQ20/40 -> Naxx; or TBC's Kara -> SSC -> Eye -> BT -> Sunwell) I would probably still play. THe should've just stayed the same as Vanilla/TBC.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Simply put any other game designer that done the same would be open for the same critisism, and blind defense matters little.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
That maybe how snobs feel, but a lot of gamers like myself have a overwhelming feeling of been there done that. Feelings that things keep getting simpler and simpler. From "dungeons over lunch" to the removal of arena gear ranking requirements to LFR. Also the removal of RPG elements like Locks needing to harvest soul stones.
WoW lost the ability to deliver the feeling of accomplishment for people like me. Yet we've seen developers do exactly as WoW has done over the past 6 years or so leaving the genre feel quite stall at times.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Blizzard is not the only company to rake in that kind of revenue...
This has nothing to do with ethics.
I don't hate WoW. But I don't love it as much as I used to.
My friends still play it though, so I make sure I log in every once in a while.
I mainly do transmog runs, I can't really get heavily into raiding.