You are leaving out the other half of the definition "material result"
in·vest
in?vest/
1.
expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture.
If it was an investment you'd own part of that "material result". Crowdfunding is not investment anymore than pledging to a public television pledge drive is investment. It's a donation in return for a promise of something cool which may or may not ever actually exist.
I'm a big advocate of crowdfunding but think its very important that people lose this wrongheaded idea that they're investing in something. There's really no accountability beyond the people's word.
^ Exactly this. It is important that people understand they are not making an investment.
But I can also see where some of the promises for crowdfunders could be seen as an investment. You give $xxx.xx and in return, when the game launches you will get an exclusive dohickey in the game. Sure it's no financial investment, but there is a hopeful return on an entertainment value.
If you go by the wider definition of investment- but when it comes to crowd funding people are using it in a financial sense- in which case it is a long long way from being an investment.
Wait people were just arguing the "wider definition" before you said this...and you insisted on keeping the subject on track to say it's only an investment if you stand to gain...
A investment and a donation can mean you get no material gain (nothing in return, unless you count tax right offs)... LIke say investing in an emulation project because they can not sell their product legally.. SO they resort to taking donations.
You don't need to earn money to invest into something, money is not the only gain to be earned, a product can still be a gain can it not? You can also invest in talent... Helping that talent to rise, without gaining anything... THE talent is who stands to gain in this case.
People do this all the time here though. Ignore the greater definition to argue one fine point. It's usually the sign of an agenda.. You are the guy who started the Crowdfunding is bad thread, so that would seem to fit.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You are leaving out the other half of the definition "material result"
in·vest
in?vest/
1.
expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture.
If it was an investment you'd own part of that "material result". Crowdfunding is not investment anymore than pledging to a public television pledge drive is investment. It's a donation in return for a promise of something cool which may or may not ever actually exist.
I'm a big advocate of crowdfunding but think its very important that people lose this wrongheaded idea that they're investing in something. There's really no accountability beyond the people's word.
^ Exactly this. It is important that people understand they are not making an investment.
But I can also see where some of the promises for crowdfunders could be seen as an investment. You give $xxx.xx and in return, when the game launches you will get an exclusive dohickey in the game. Sure it's no financial investment, but there is a hopeful return on an entertainment value.
If you go by the wider definition of investment- but when it comes to crowd funding people are using it in a financial sense- in which case it is a long long way from being an investment.
Well, yes, the "investment" is more from a perspective and not a true definition.
Well, it really doesn't matter to me anyway. I won't do it.
I'll pay for released games that are proven........PERIOD.
Likewise. If my local vacuum cleaner manufacturer asked me to fund his factory, and in return I would get a hoover while he kept all of the profit he earned off the back of my money, I would tell him to sod off.
I don't understand why people find it acceptable for game manufacturers to do this.
The material result is the game you invested in. what's not to understand? Investment is more than financial
Actually, you are wrong.
You get access to this game. You dont own the game, just like you dont own any mmo game.
All you have done is purchase the right to play whatever the developers want you to play and for however long they wish for you to play.
you get no material possession in this.
Crowdfunding is pretty much patronage more then investments.
I am interested in this game however, and i am thinking of backing it.
No MMO has held me since SWG shut down and this is certainly looking interesting
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2 Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR Best MMO: SWG Worst MMO: SWTOR
Making an MMO isn't easy. A group of people have to come together and make it work. Backers, developers, marketing, players, everyone have their own expectations of how the game should be. That takes on a life of it's own and at times the game develops in ways that couldn't be anticipated. I think the bottom line is no matter what type of game they come up with a group of players will be unhappy. Do I get annoyed at times in how a game is turning out? Yes. It may be one way in beta, one way on release, then a total different game as it develops after release. That's the way it goes.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Likewise. If my local vacuum cleaner manufacturer asked me to fund his factory, and in return I would get a hoover while he kept all of the profit he earned off the back of my money, I would tell him to sod off.
I don't understand why people find it acceptable for game manufacturers to do this.
I dont care if a vacuum company gets money from investors, banks where ever, so long as i get a machine that will clean my carpet. If that company end up not producing a vacuum there who cares.
There are plenty other companies selling perfectly adequate vacuums.
The big difference is, we have all seen what the big investors/publishers and alike want to do with new MMORPGs (emulate WoW - and failing) and so i am very glad this game is being crowd funded and not going down the more corporate route - the devs can stay focused on making the game that players want not some money men.
There are not plenty of other companies making games like The Repopulation.
To answer the question how i see it, Helping to fund indie games means the possibility of a game launch and many many hours of entertainment. This is why I was happy to pay upfront for this game, i dont care what extras i get, i just want this game to happen!
That said there are a fair few crowdfunded games that I dont agree with their strategy, such as those with AAA studio finances already, or those with many millions in the bank from their earlier games or those who make a ton of money from crowrdfunding but keep milking it - but all that is personal preferences and the bigger thing is i see it as if people do want to pay for things early, invest, fund or how ever they personally see it, its their choice
I hardly ever post and I been a huge fan of this game. I gave them 75 bucks to support them and to get in early, I found out that its going to early access in a month so what was the point to get into beta for a few weeks early, when we all paid a few years ago, or a year ago, or what ever.
I find that to be annoying... What was the point.? Also they did invite guilds to test, that never got to test when asked, I plan to still play, but it considers me that they seem disorganized a bit.. Delays happen thats the industry, but a few weeks? cmon, I feel like that was s lap in the face, I got over 20 people to support them and everyone of us got slapped in the face if we would of known this we could of waited..
Also the whole guild thing when they asked on twitche and then screwed people over and invited there buddy guilds instead, I have seen other indies do this as well, I eneded upquiting the game, when some company play favorites. Anyways, wanted to post to let the devs know what they did was wrote, and I hardly ever post about this stuff ever.
You got exclusive perks basically, not a bad deal at all considering platinum subscription will cost about that much.
your kidding right?? I run a company as an Indie, and i'm also in the industry, this is a bad practice to say your going to do something and you don't.. So your saying I can promise you this and that for 75 bucks,. and in return I will sell the same thing, nearly, for less? yes I get items but most items that you pay for in games suck, and a lot of company try and sell for less in the future, that was annoys me..
I believe if you say hey you supported me, I will take care of you, I see indies and AAA's company pull that shit to often, I opened my own company as I could no longer support companys who screw over there player base any longer.
If you state you are letting someone in a year later and it happens that does not bother me if I had to wait 4 years that does not bother me.
But to let people in weeks later than pay way less pisses me off and it horrible business practice.... So again if you want to make people happy do not let people in weeks after that pay way less.
I wanted over a year to get in which I had no problem with... Also the whole beta thing, JC stated to me they never did any inviting after Pax, I even send him the email... That was from Josh.. I seen people get invited when our guild was suppose to, so again, DO NOT ask for help from guilds who been around for 16 years just to slap them in the face it makes you look bad!!!
We have supported all indies , but our guild WILL NOT support this game due to this fact since they seem unorganized. Mistakes happen, but learn to take notes ..as I do..
So whats your company or is your foot in your mouth?
I love how people say I am in the industry, guess what so am I. I own a business, we just branched off into video games. SWEET! We are an indie developer. Stay tuned for our first announcement in this decade!
On a more serious note, I am annoyed at the entire layout of this game. Everyone is like its SWG. The game looks like something prior to that and the menu and whole system needs a fresh look.
The first hub Thicket something is a mess and laid out horribly. They need base towns laid out perfectly letting us go into the wilderness etc. SWG got lots of things right and if your trying to build upon it, at least start with the same type of core instead of something that looks like it was hashed together worse than Fallen Earth. At least its systems were in place and made a lick of sense at the beginning.
The OP runs a company but can't write 4 paragraphs without many grammatical errors? Anyway....just because you are in a guild you should get invited into a game for free? The dev team is small and the game is huge. They are, from what I can see, trying very hard to make a great game. Everyone likes to complain about everything, I get it. In this day and age, people are used to getting to play games for free and having big companies beg them to spend money, but not care what they actually think. I think it speaks volumes about this company that I have seen not only JC-Smith, but the owner of the game, post on this forum. If you do work for a game dev, as you say OP, I would think you would have enough respect for other indie devs, to take your problems to email or PM, rather than an open forum with the intent on making this game and/or Above and Beyond look bad.
During the time I played this game it never had an update. The graphics of this game remined me of 80s graphics. I dont think it ever wil be released. Its just taking our money for as long as it can get away with it!!
i got this game on steam early alpha access and comparing this to SWG is kinda a joke and false advertisement. The combat is no where near even pre cu combat at all its slow clunky and sluggish and the crafting is just overly complex and confusing. SWG had fun crafting this game just gives you a headache trying to figure out everything. Not to mention the way the questing/mission system emailing you over and over every 30 seconds gets old. I honestly think this company advertising this game as a SWG UO mix is going to in the end piss off a ton of people because it doesnt play like either of them and seems to be a cash grab. Not to mention you cant even place your house anywhere like in SWG and pvp is limited to a few zones.
I got in for free (won a contest) and I won't play it in its current state. It needs a TON of work IMO. This is coming from a guy who thinks WURM is a solid and fun gaming experience.
Comments
Wait people were just arguing the "wider definition" before you said this...and you insisted on keeping the subject on track to say it's only an investment if you stand to gain...
A investment and a donation can mean you get no material gain (nothing in return, unless you count tax right offs)... LIke say investing in an emulation project because they can not sell their product legally.. SO they resort to taking donations.
You don't need to earn money to invest into something, money is not the only gain to be earned, a product can still be a gain can it not? You can also invest in talent... Helping that talent to rise, without gaining anything... THE talent is who stands to gain in this case.
People do this all the time here though. Ignore the greater definition to argue one fine point. It's usually the sign of an agenda.. You are the guy who started the Crowdfunding is bad thread, so that would seem to fit.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually, you are wrong.
You get access to this game. You dont own the game, just like you dont own any mmo game.
All you have done is purchase the right to play whatever the developers want you to play and for however long they wish for you to play.
you get no material possession in this.
Crowdfunding is pretty much patronage more then investments.
I am interested in this game however, and i am thinking of backing it.
No MMO has held me since SWG shut down and this is certainly looking interesting
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
Making an MMO isn't easy. A group of people have to come together and make it work. Backers, developers, marketing, players, everyone have their own expectations of how the game should be. That takes on a life of it's own and at times the game develops in ways that couldn't be anticipated. I think the bottom line is no matter what type of game they come up with a group of players will be unhappy. Do I get annoyed at times in how a game is turning out? Yes. It may be one way in beta, one way on release, then a total different game as it develops after release. That's the way it goes.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I dont care if a vacuum company gets money from investors, banks where ever, so long as i get a machine that will clean my carpet. If that company end up not producing a vacuum there who cares.
There are plenty other companies selling perfectly adequate vacuums.
The big difference is, we have all seen what the big investors/publishers and alike want to do with new MMORPGs (emulate WoW - and failing) and so i am very glad this game is being crowd funded and not going down the more corporate route - the devs can stay focused on making the game that players want not some money men.
There are not plenty of other companies making games like The Repopulation.
To answer the question how i see it, Helping to fund indie games means the possibility of a game launch and many many hours of entertainment. This is why I was happy to pay upfront for this game, i dont care what extras i get, i just want this game to happen!
That said there are a fair few crowdfunded games that I dont agree with their strategy, such as those with AAA studio finances already, or those with many millions in the bank from their earlier games or those who make a ton of money from crowrdfunding but keep milking it - but all that is personal preferences and the bigger thing is i see it as if people do want to pay for things early, invest, fund or how ever they personally see it, its their choice
So whats your company or is your foot in your mouth?
I love how people say I am in the industry, guess what so am I. I own a business, we just branched off into video games. SWEET! We are an indie developer. Stay tuned for our first announcement in this decade!
On a more serious note, I am annoyed at the entire layout of this game. Everyone is like its SWG. The game looks like something prior to that and the menu and whole system needs a fresh look.
The first hub Thicket something is a mess and laid out horribly. They need base towns laid out perfectly letting us go into the wilderness etc. SWG got lots of things right and if your trying to build upon it, at least start with the same type of core instead of something that looks like it was hashed together worse than Fallen Earth. At least its systems were in place and made a lick of sense at the beginning.
The OP runs a company but can't write 4 paragraphs without many grammatical errors? Anyway....just because you are in a guild you should get invited into a game for free? The dev team is small and the game is huge. They are, from what I can see, trying very hard to make a great game. Everyone likes to complain about everything, I get it. In this day and age, people are used to getting to play games for free and having big companies beg them to spend money, but not care what they actually think. I think it speaks volumes about this company that I have seen not only JC-Smith, but the owner of the game, post on this forum. If you do work for a game dev, as you say OP, I would think you would have enough respect for other indie devs, to take your problems to email or PM, rather than an open forum with the intent on making this game and/or Above and Beyond look bad.
(JC is one of the owners, too, according to Above & Beyond official site (although the blurb here at mmorpg.com doesn't mention him as such))
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"Evening Star": a The Repopulation novel.
They release 1-2 big patches every month plus hotfixes every few days:
https://therepopulation.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=28
Joined - July 2004