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Say it's nostalgia all you want....
Kaledren
Member UncommonPosts: 312
....but it's really not. There are just SOME things from old EQ1 I wish were back in modern MMORPG's. Notice I capped the word some, not everything.
This will sound dorky, and it is, but I loved to get lost in the EQ world. Not "OMG, where the hell am I?!?" lost, but saturated in it, become another person/character in another world, and EQ1 did that for me unlike any MMORPG I've played since then. It was alive, and it allowed me to escape the drudges of RL and imagine, just as tabletop games did (Personally played D&D and Rifts).
Personally, I didn't RP much in EQ1...I did a bit, but not as much as many others did. But I LOVED that others did, and it didn't bother me at all...it actually immersed me even more in the environment.
What set it apart from almost all MMORPG's today, or at least the ones I've tried, which is A LOT of them is...
*(I'll address each colored section in regards to modern MMORPG's at the end of the EQ1 love blathering)*
- The huge open world ( I say open, although most of us know it was zoned...but still vast open expanses within those zones). A lot of zones had large level ranges, adding to the danger and excitement. I recall many times traveling and running into red mobs well above my level range...in the middle of zones meant for my level range.
- Quests/Epic Quests. The quests...most of the time, gave little detail. It made you have to find the location. Epic quests were just that...EPIC! You needed a good Guild, or group of friends to do parts of it to get a step closer to receiving your Epic Weapons for your specific class, which, took you all over the world.
- The danger. And there was plenty of it, despite what some may say. Get through Kithicor forest at night in one piece, Highhold Pass, Paludal Caverns, Crystal Caverns, Desert of Ro, and MANY other places in EQ1 then tell me there is no danger. Hell! Corpse runs!
Sure, they could suck at times...but if you knew the areas and were in trouble, you knew where you could go to die (if it was going to happen) to make the corpse run easier on yourself. Things like corpse runs, or even just barely being into a level and dying...hence de-leveling...making gear you may of been wearing suddenly unwearable made you think about your actions more.
- This is the biggest one of them all on this list...the COMMUNITY! It actually had one. People knew each other. Players that caused issues were know throughout the server via word of mouth, and usually blacklisted from anything and everything. They straightened up, or left the server eventually. Yeah...there were those that didn't care and still acted a fool...but really, nowhere near to the level in today's MMORPG's. I still have friends, yes...friends I stay in contact with from my EQ1 days. Even play other games together.
It was pretty cool to see players make their own vendor areas (Prior to the Bazaar) like in the tunnels between Desert of Ro and East Commonlands and peddle their wares, or even just sit around and chat.
"Selling bat wings at T1! 10cp a stack!"
I use to sit with my high level in noob zones, like Kelethin and shout I was giving buffs at a particular spot. I didn't charge money, but did it to be nice. Give away armor and weapons, beneficial foods and potions...even have games to get them as rewards. And MANY people did things like that, all the time.
Groups were essential. yeah, you COULD solo in EQ1...despite what some may say, but grouping was where it was at. I made a lot of good friends in groups. And it was a nice change of pace to have meditation periods to regain mana/health and just chat amongst yourselves about whatever.
- Leveling. Leveling took awhile in EQ1. Hell, I played religiously for 5 years...it took me my first full year to get to the level cap. Now yeah...starting a new character it became easier and faster to level up...but it still took time. And because of that...higher level characters were given a lot of respect and looked up to for advice, etc. it took a LOT of time and effort to get there.
- The travel. Believe it or not, I liked the long travel times. It made the world feel vast. You learned short cuts and the safest ways through zones. There were some quicker ways to travel (Pre-PoP)...like Spirit of Wolf (SoW), or a wizard teleport, but beyond that, you were hoofin it.
Which btw...was another great aspect...player/class specific beneficial spells that weren't necessarily a necessity, but a convenience that were sought by other classes. And it lent to the intrigue of playing particular classes.
These things, for the most part, are missing from modern MMORPG's. And personally, I feel this is why they fail to attract and retain players. Modern MMORPG's (Most, not all)...
- World. Yes, some DO have large worlds. But they are on rails for the most part. You are funneled from one area to the next...almost in a straight line. You are told exactly where to go and what to do. And even given map GPS in most cases, doing away with the excitement, intrigue, and satisfaction of discovery. But this is also hampered by another aspect...travel, which I'll get back to further down the list.
- What can I say about this. They really haven't changed a whole lot. You still have the "Collect X amount of this", "Kill X amount of that" types to this day.
However, as I said above, the one difference is the stories behind them, and the scale of them. Now a days, you get a quest and the area needed is within spitting distance. Quests feel like a necessary evil just to level to get to "endgame" (Another subject for another thread), or just an after thought. Where are the Epic quests that make it feel more RPG?
- There is danger in today's MMORPG's, but not quite like the EQ1 or even UO days. You can take on multiple mobs with little trouble now a days. And most possible danger is negated by the various fast travel modes available. I just don't feel, personally, the level of danger in today's MMORPG's are on par with EQ1, and especially the UO days.
- Community. Almost non-existent in modern MMORPG's. And this is for various reasons I feel. First is the huge level of soloability present in them. You don't need anyone to do almost anything. IDK how many times I've looked for groups and couldn't find one. But then discover I didn't need one after all when I am pretty much forced to go it alone. This also goes with the "danger" area. There isn't much when you can do this...I mean solo with such ease. Even when you do manage to get a group...no one talks, or talk very little beyond objectives, the robotic tactics to take down whatever you are going after, or to call you a noob, etc if you dare make a mistake. When the objective is met, some even leave the rest of the group in the bad areas and leave the group. FEW ask what other quests members of the group may have to continue on.
Even clans/guilds...or whatever they may be called in a particular game, are nothing more than outlets to get that new shiney. I've been in guilds where no one really helped each other beyond raids or quests. Few help just to be nice, unless there is something in it for them personally. And nearly no one had pride in their respective guilds beyond being "elite" (1337).
- Leveling. An after thought. A means to an end. In most MMORPG's today, you can get to cap in a couple of weeks. Some even within days! High levels are a dime a dozen...so they aren't anything special. This is why in a lot of the MMORPG's today you see massive groups of high levels sitting idle in major hubs. Nothing to do, nowhere to go...and most skipped gobs of content in their race to cap....and are usually the ones complaining on forums or even in-game there is no content. It's crazy!
- Travel. Today's means of travel in MMORPG's is almost completely instant, destroying discovery or the feeling of a vast world.
You know why the world feels empty and useless? Because nearly everyone fast travels,because today's MMORPG's are rat races to get to cap or "endgame"...a term that should not exist in MMORPG's. No one takes the time to appreciate the worlds created for them to play in.
I feel MMORPG's today are not really MMORPG's at all. They are more MMSPG's that companies pass off as MMORPG's. Sure...there are other players you see on occasion, but they are more like AI/fluff than anything else.
Personally? Achievements, stat boards/leader boards, over use of instances and instant travel, over use of soloability (soloing is ok, but wow is it over the top now), emphasis on "endgame", ease of getting to cap, allowing almost all classes to do everything..hence killing the need for interdependence all have killed MMORPG's for me, and I am sure for many other too.
If they could bring back most of the stuff mentioned at the beginning of my LONG post of blathering, but with the elements of modern MMORPG's such as, the UI's, battle (EQ1's was HORRIBLY bland and boring. Hit attack, stand and watch and hope for high hit to miss ratios), graphics, creative boss encounters..amongst many other modern ideas that I actually welcome and love...they would have me for YEARS and I'd happily fork over $15 a month...hell...even $20 or $30 a month if done right.
Ok...now discuss...and try not to troll or name call. This is a discussion board after all and people are entitled to their opinions and ideas....or in this case...dreams.
Comments
I agree with this for the most part. No matter how I try I cannot get into today's games for more than a couple of months at the most. The lack of immersion, the focus on instant gratification and cash shops just kills it.
I like the feeling of being in a living breathing world which is missing from the games today.
Nice post, sadly most of it will fall on deaf ears as only those that played back in the day can understand the magic of how all elements played together to make a perfect uncompromisng experience.
It takes ALOT to make an MMORPG just right, but you have covered alot and close to everything it takes in this post, though it's almost impossible to explain all the intricate details as the people that developed those games back in the days were geniuses and were majors in math and pretty much nerds "meant with all do respect", not people that threw together a game overnight in a pre-built engine, they knew how one system affected the other and the only ones that complained were the ones that couldn't understand or see the bigger picture, so now all we get is imbalanced and incomplete games, cause everyone keeps trying to do it better but they can't cause they had all of it calculated back then and it WAS perfect.
Most of the things i liked in eq i like in today's games as well.
But to each their own. We all have different likes and experiences.
I enjoyed travel because it made the game HUGE. That feeling never got old for me. I could never easily bypass a bad pull, so that threat kept it exciting. I couldn't bypass the threat of adds walking down the dungeon corridor or enemy players jumping me in a dungeon on the PvP server either. Or the harsh death penalty that paid off in making things intense.
But as you said, to each their own. I wish I could find these things in today's MMOs. Most aren't even MMOs really though.
Yep. De-leveling or corpse runs did suck, but they definitely made you think of tactics, etc. But to me...even corpse runs took skill and were exciting. IDK how many times I'd be running in my birthday suit (For the most part) to where I died thinking of how I am going to get back to where I was and drag my corpse out and safely loot my gear. Had my hear racing while doing it too.
Or random named high level mobs or rare mobs wandering lower level zones. You had to be attentive to your surroundings. Not so much these days.
I just never enjoyed EQ. It felt mindnumbingly boring. As you said combat was dull as hell and just couldn't put up with it. This was particularly ironic because the way to progress was to grind mobs till the end of time.
a great community is always good to have and if EQ community was good okay, I have no idea, I couldn't get past all the other shortcomings. However when playing lotro I found he community to be great which made the game much more enjoyable.
The world immersion you were referring to, I have experienced in other MMOs. I think a lot of EQ people love EQ because it was their first mmo. This also happens with people who started with other MMOs, e.g. Wow. However EQ fans act all dismissive as if they are the only ones who are allowed to be biased towards their first mmo.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I don't quite understand how such a dangerous world could be "boring" to you. I can understand if you didn't like the combat and you came from more action oriented games. There was real risk vs reward and you had to use tactics just to travel around. Maybe you like the more relaxed watch tv and jamb a few hotbuttons and kill 20 enemies at a time we have in more modern games.
EQ was considerably different than any other MMO out there and thus why people still talk about it. Tactics required on pulls and travel are all gone. Significant risk vs reward is only around in games like Darkfall. Open world PvE difficulty has been toned down to nonexistant and on and on....
Maybe he's like me and just didn't find it dangerous. I really didn't. The danger was bypassed by running the walls, running around or stopping and waiting. Not very dangerous at all imo.
Tactics are about not losing. The death penalty and the corpse run didn't increase anything for me. The challenge was in not losing, the same as big fights in today's games.
The mobs your level were generally harder, but that is just an arbitrary color code. We fought mobs that we found gave the best xp per kill, the exact same as today's games.
I pretty much played WoW, swtor, EQ2, HZ... even CoH, the exact same way I played EQ way back in 2002. There just really is not much difference again imo.
Whenever I see posts like this (and they're not uncommon) I often wonder why the authors don't join with like minded players and return to EQ1. Everquest can, by and large, still be played the way it was made originally. I know, because I've done it. You ignore the conveniences introduced by PoP. There are only a few things that don't pan out, such as trading in the EC Tunnels.
It is all there, just waiting for you.
He's entitled to his opinion. However, I am not the way I am about EQ because it was my first. And it was my first, yes. But because of all the things I mentioned that kept me drawn into it. The major staying point for me though was the community.
I have played Eve Online off and on for 6 years now, mainly because I love space and wanted to find a space oriented MMORPG to get lost in...but much like what you say for EQ1, I feel for Eve. To me, it got boring fast. it's mastering spreadsheets.
But to others, they love it for the combat...or the community. As Venge said, to each their own.
1. Quest are irrelevant now because anything you want or need to know can simply be Googled. So the sense of mystery and all that is gone. FOREVER. No game out now or in the future will ever be able to give you a unique quest experience.
2. Too many carebears cry about difficulty. Thus leading to nerfs so content is more accessible.
3. In today's market no one will stick around for a year to see endgame. No one has the time, and no is willing. Also, I highly doubt a studio will be able to produce a years worth of content for a release, and if so there will be so much repetitive grind it will make your head bleed.
4. Some people like long travel, others don't. This will inevitably cause a rift in the community.
Because it's not the same game it once was.
I have gone back. The game is still being played by many...it's on..IDK...like expansion #23 or so, but it's been changed to keep players. Mainly because it is a 16 year old MMORPG now, it is SERIOUSLY outdated. it's been revamped so much, yeah...it's a to different.
And after playing modern MMORPG's with MUCH MUCH improved combat and UI's...it just has no staying power anymore. it's mindnumbingly boring...and your paying for it too. Now as I said...if they brought a modern version of EQ1 with some of those modern enhancements without changing the original meat of it...I'd So be game.
Amazingly I remembered my info for EQ1 and got to play my 65 Beastlord lol. Got to lvl 66 before I stopped. Meh.
1. You were able to do the same in the days of EQ1. There were EQ help sites.
2. Unfortunately.
3. Well honestly, if has time for an MMORPG, they are in the wrong genre of MMO's to begin with. They were originally built to take time and be a long journey. It was about the journey, NOT the destination like they are now.
4. Yes..but as I said in the OP, as in EQ1...there can be modes of fast travel...but they should be limited to particular classes being able to do so. Or just mounts. Eq1 had ships too. The journey was long...but they had a game within the game you could put a command in for a lay o those journeys (Sort of like tetris), or chat with other travelers.
Here's where modern ideas included could make it like the old, but have new stuff to make it more appealing..like AI Pirate attacks on the passenger ship where all patrons band together to fight them off..maybe even have a Pirate Captain boss board they can fight to possibly win loot, sea monster attacks, bad weather, random island discovered players can jump ship and swim to for other discoveries and adventures, etc, etc.
Well I am sorry it hurts your eyes. It was done that way so the EQ1 and modern MMORPG comparisons could be easily connected for the various categories.
"why use a bike when you can use a car"
is a bad analogy that i don't agree with but it is what the industry is using right now. the newer mechanics that ruined the magic of the old are introduced in order to attract casuals and reward you faster. if these things are removed, many usually won't stick around. ironically at the end all these new mechanics will make the whole thing feel cheap for them after a while and they will not stick around for that long anyway. i am not saying they are right or wrong but that is what will happen unless other aspects of the game are covered. the problem lies with the wrong view that publishers have on the genre right now. MMORPGs are not meant to be for attract as many as possible and instant super mega bags of money shouldn't be expected at launch.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
Where the hell is "like", "approve", "+1" or something button?
Op, you sound like you like your memories, else you would play EQ stil..
Picture a "game" where you have to press the x key down all the time (and do nothing else) and if you let go of the x-key you die. There is also of course a running title over your head saying the amount of time you have pressed the x key down, so that your in game "friends" become jealous.
Very boring but also "dangerous." The two aren't mutually exclusive.
With the above game, silly people might very well create bot programs that pressed the x-key down for them. (Other people, of course, would realize that there is no point to playing the game and search elsewhere...)
I think my "game" above offers a lot
of insight into current MMOs.
I entirely agree with the OP.
However, the reason this is no longer the case is because of people who decided to get into mmorpgs and complain about everything that made it an mmorpg.
It would be like a bunch of people getting into the sport tennis but not liking the rackets so the change them out for bats. They don't like the court so they change it out for a field with bases. They continue to change it till what you have is no longer even tennis and instead you have baseball. This is essentially what happened to mmorpgs.
Apparently you didn't read this...
Because it's not the same game it once was.
I have gone back. The game is still being played by many...it's on..IDK...like expansion #23 or so, but it's been changed to keep players. Mainly because it is a 16 year old MMORPG now, it is SERIOUSLY outdated. it's been revamped so much, yeah...it's a to different.
And after playing modern MMORPG's with MUCH MUCH improved combat and UI's...it just has no staying power anymore. it's mindnumbingly boring...and your paying for it too. Now as I said...if they brought a modern version of EQ1 with some of those modern enhancements without changing the original meat of it...I'd So be game.
Its not going to be around for much longer under Daybreak games....
There were a lot of neat spells for certain classes that pertained directly to them when EQ first came out. Other then the ones you mentioned for travel like teleport for druids/wizards, Spirit of the Wolf for Druids/Rangers/Shamans, Wolf Form, for Druids/Rangers. There was also Shrink/Grow for Shamans. This was fun just for goofing around even though it had uses in dungeons. It was funny to see a tiny Ogre or a giant Gnome running around. High level Druids could stop the rain. This doesn't sound like much but there weren't a lot of high levels the first year I played and it was difficult to see when it was raining. Having a high level Druid stop the rain was pretty neat. Enchanters seemed to have a lot of fun/utility spells. They could cast illusion spells to make themselves look like almost anything in the game. This might seem useless, bit in EQ factions actually were important and being able to cast illusion and spells to improve you faction were both helpful to get access to certain spells in cities you were KoS and also a fun roleplaying mechanic. Levitate is always nice to have of course. Both for fun and for roleplaying. The different starting areas were all fun places and really fit in with the different cultures. As mentioned by some it was generally possible to overcome faction differences, but it required a lot of work helping a certain faction defeat their enemies.
Nice post OP.
I am 39 and as I get older I believe there will always be things that I miss when it comes to gaming. I hate to say it but I think the gaming community's overall attention span is pretty short, and so we just don't hang on to things for very long.
I miss that old-school feel too, but then again I can't help but be glad for the technical advances that have come with this. Maybe in 10 years we will see some sort of happy medium somewhere?
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune