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  • MyownGodMyownGod Member UncommonPosts: 205
    Originally posted by superconducting

    I discovered something in the FAQ:

    https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home?region=US

     

    30-day Membership:

    • 1500 crowns at the start of each 30-day membership period
    • Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership
    • Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership
      • 10% bonus to experience point gain
      • 10% bonus to crafting research
      • 10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
      • 10% bonus to gold acquisition

    90-day Membership:

    • 4500  crowns at the start of each 90-day membership period
    • Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership
    • Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership
      • 10% bonus to experience point gain
      • 10% bonus to crafting research
      • 10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
      • 10% bonus to gold acquisition

    180-day Membership:

    • 9000 crowns at the start of each 180-day membership period
    • Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership
    • Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership
      • 10% bonus to experience point gain
      • 10% bonus to crafting research
      • 10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
      • 10% bonus to gold acquisition
     
    Don't know about you but this looks way worse than offering an exclusive horse with an imperial edition.
    Smell like P2W to you?

    It seems no matter what they do, they are always on the wrong side. People should just be grateful that they are letting them play for free/b2p, people that decides to support the game should be rewarded, I don't see this as p2w, as long as its not "Buy this to enhance your weapon with real money" or without it there's no way to enhance your weapon, that's pay to win to me.

  • junzo316junzo316 Member UncommonPosts: 1,706

    Some people consider xp potions in cash shops pay-to-win.  I, however, disagree.  To me, P2W gives you more of an advantage over other players.  Now, my problem is....If they nerfed the xp gain for non paying subs by 10% and the "xp bonus" is just "normal" xp...but, until we see the cash shop and what items are placed there, then, I don't think this is P2W.

     

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Member UncommonPosts: 476

    If we alter the definition of the word "winning" to mean any advantage that allows a player to surpass those not paying the sub fee, then yes... ZOS have implemented a "P2W" subscription model where players that subscribe have a distinct and clear advantage over those that do not.

  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 5,954

    This is not pay to win. It's not exactly hidden, but I was actually looking for a catch of this sort so...who knows about that? Pay to win is when you can purchase a piece/set of gear that is NOT OBTAINABLE within game and it is better than even the best gear in the game. What this is:

    Segregation based on fair play. And yes, it sucks to be segregated. But look on the bright side: in TOR you can't even post on forums without a sub! Or hide helm(ok whatever)...

    So two things: it could be worse and companies need to make money or you get no game. Or even worse: a game with no updates.

    "IT REALLY SUCKS TO BE SEGREGATED", eh?

    edit: @junzo: yeah that is how SWTOR works. They nerfed xp gain for non subs by 20% and it remains the same as before for subs. It's a wrong way to handle this because it should be like this: "non subs get 100% xp/subs get 125% xp". The xp nerf REALLY HURTS the gameplay in swtor and the sad part? I fully expect ES:O to do the exact same thing with their xp. Nerf for non subs.

  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,415

    Just free loaders being free loaders. They whined when it was a sub based game, they whine now due to some useless perks, theyll whine later when they charge for something else.

     

    The game on PC could have and should have stayed Sub based. Then there wouldnt be any problems. Because console players arent nearly the whiney ass bitches PC players are, and they have no problems paying for things. But then all the losers too poor or self entitled to sub for the PC version would have whined about that.

     

    I was hyper critical of this game and ZoS for along time. But they have made a lot of right moves since last year and this constant Pay to win talk is just dumb. I am not sure exactly what you win?

     

    The game is basically a solo game where youre on a server with other people. The PvP isnt nearly competitive or populated enough to even worry about so there is no 'win' there either. Even if they sold armor 10 times better than anything you could make or find in the game it wouldnt effect 95% of the people playing this game because they wouldnt even encounter people who bought said armor.

     

    Just bitches looking to bitch about something and since this is basically the only thing they can find to piss and moan about then IMO its a pretty good transition.

  • reemireemi Member UncommonPosts: 44

    Not p2w to me... just a little xp boost.

  • skeaserskeaser Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
    Originally posted by superconducting
    Originally posted by Hermod
    Or it could be a thank-you for paying the wages for the people that spend a lot of time making the game.

    that's not the point.

    The point is that most B2P models are really only supposed to have cosmetic or vanity items for sale to not be considered as offering unfair advantage over others.

    EQ2. LoTRO, Rift and SWTOR all have similar benefits for a sub. What are the "most" options you're looking at?

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,713

    The game is already even MORE pay to win!

    They won't even let me play unless I give them $15 a month! So I automatically lose if I don't pay and those who pay insta-win over me :(. It's not fair!!!

    image
  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow Member UncommonPosts: 1,185

    Subscription / VIP systems are generally not considered P2W because they cap the monthly payments to 10-15$.

    P2W is associated with games that allow you to spend more and more money to gain more and more power without any caps or limitations.

    /thread

  • SephrosSephros Member UncommonPosts: 424
    Wow , OP fell out of the short bus for sure.

    Error: No Keyboard Detected!
    Press F1 to continue......

  • Moxom914Moxom914 Member UncommonPosts: 688


    Originally posted by dotdotdash
    If we alter the definition of the word "winning" to mean any advantage that allows a player to surpass those not paying the sub fee, then yes... ZOS have implemented a "P2W" subscription model where players that subscribe have a distinct and clear advantage over those that do not.


    well if im paying $15/month to play then i should receive benefits that freeloaders do not.

  • Moxom914Moxom914 Member UncommonPosts: 688


    Originally posted by junzo316
    Some people consider xp potions in cash shops pay-to-win.  I, however, disagree.  To me, P2W gives you more of an advantage over other players.  Now, my problem is....If they nerfed the xp gain for non paying subs by 10% and the "xp bonus" is just "normal" xp...but, until we see the cash shop and what items are placed there, then, I don't think this is P2W. 

    i have no issue with nerfing xp for freeloaders. i paid $15/month for 100% xp. why should freeloaders get the same thing for free? nerf their xp. if they want 100%, then sub. i will.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 5,980

    Not sure how Zenimax managed to produce 3 expansions for Skyrim with no subscribers; just a bunch of freeloaders. Lots of other games have had lots of expansions as well with no subscribers.

    I don't buy a car and think sheesh I should be paying extra every month to keep those designers working. Ditto toasters, wallpaper, chairs, cakes - pretty much everything we buy in fact. Yet somehow manufacturers keep on coming up with new products. And if the product is good they thrive.

    As for this thread I think it could worry Zenimax:

    • The idea that TESO will still require a subscription when it launches on console - doubt Zenimax will like that.
    • The idea that TESO will have a P2W cash shop when it launches on consoles -doubt Zenimax will like that either.

    And I am talking "perception" here not reality.

    We have no idea how well TESO has done on PC. All the work done so far has been in support of the console launch. Simply an extension of the initial c. 7 years of development. And comments like I see lots of people mean nothing as a result of the megaservers. After the console launch we will see. Will there be DLC? There doesn't have to be - Blizzard demonstrated that when they went for 14 months with no content and then produced an expansion that everybody had to pay for. Surely, we say, Zenimax would never do that .... reminds me of the cash shop threads last March.

    If the message gets out that TESO on console will need a sub and has a P2W cash shop - and I am talking perception remember - then I think those dreams will remain dreams.

    What the game needs - in the opinion of Zenimax clearly - is what Skyrim achieved: high sales. 

    However TESO was reviewed for consoles last year - based on the PC launch because the game was due to launch. And the reviews were, as we know, not overwhelmingly positive. Not bad but not gushing with praise. So I think there is doubt about how well the game will do; hence the optional sub and the cash shop.

  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 Member UncommonPosts: 264
    Originally posted by superconducting
    Originally posted by Domoto
    This is not P2W, it's pay for convenience. Leveling faster because you are subbed is not winning because you payed money. You are not getting anything someone else cannot just because you paid money. Also, saying *BURIED IN THE FAQ* is misleading, and comes off as stirring shit up. The day they announced it, of the 4 or so places I saw the announcement, the terms of continuing a sub was there, including at XP bonus. I don't play this game, and most likely won't but is this really necessary?

    I don't consider it just convenience.

    After the champion system rolls out, experience past level 50 is supposed to mean something. More champion points into your char makes you stronger.

    If you have a guy who can do it faster, then yes, I DO see that as a clear advantage. It is not just a "convenience".

    Pay to win means you are more powerful getting things you can`t get otherwise via real money.

     

    Getting things 10% faster is just... getting things SLIGHTLY faster, not even worth mentioning as pay to win.

     

    Many games have bonuses that are a lot more than 10%, but even if they were 200% it would not be pay to win. You can get the same things just slower....

     

    When they release the Buy to Play some people will have a lot of champion points while others will be new player with non. OMG its clearly pay to win as some will have a clear advantage over others. :-)

    This kind of crap is just stupid, they need to make some money, they chose to give paying players more cosmetic options and the chance to gain xp/etc. 10% faster... more than fair.

    Pay to win originated in games where you could pay 10.000$ and be invincible with super powerful gear. Clearly not the case here, stop picking on every advantage a paying customer has especially when its in gold gained or xp and so on gained, things that you can get as a free player, just a bit slower.

    Besides, as a free player.... you are not helping them release more content or anything, getting stuff 10% slower is might generous of them. Be happy about it.

     

  • seigardseigard Member UncommonPosts: 286
    Well with OP's logic any subscription based game is P2W as well then. Since once you pay your sub, you can get higher level than those who dont pay...
  • Dagon13Dagon13 Member UncommonPosts: 559

    I would consider it pay to win in a recently launched game.  Players leveling faster than you with typical progression system are provided a definitive advantage in areas of competition.  An advantage with "compounding interest", as leveling faster usually also lends itself directly to more powerful gear and abilities to the point where "player skill" is irrelevant.

    However, when a significant portion of the populace is already pushing the limits of end game then leveling progression is hardly relevant.  This is the case with ESO so I would not consider it pay to win.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by superconducting

     

    Don't know about you but this looks way worse than offering an exclusive horse with an imperial edition.
    Smell like P2W to you?

    If that's pay to win to you, then never play an MMO because anyone that started playing before you has an advantage. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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