Awesome job, the game has massively improved since I last logged on keep up the good work. Really love the atmosphere in the world. It would be cool if you could get abit more Mount and Bladelike combat, directional swings and directional blocks, it almost has that feel atm.
I think I am going to have to up my investment when I get some more disposable income.
The best part about this opinion is that it isn't actually rooted in any fact. They'll say things like, "well show me a OWPvP game that succeeded!!?!?" If you look at UO, it was a massive success for its time. WoW had PvP servers with tons of OWPvP between factions and it is the most popular MMO on the planet. If you're talking about total factionless PvP, show me a triple-A game that actually has that.
Oh, and 75%? Cool numbers. Where did you get these? Oh right, from no where.
Buddy, you play MMORPG's because you like PvE. Stop your baseless opinions on games that are trying to do something different. None of what you say is true, no matter how hard you want to believe it.
Show me the last PvP centric game to 'succeed'. You cant because they dont exist. You cite two games, WoW and UO, when were those made and released again? When was open world PvP part of their focus? How many games have been released since those two (1997 and 2004) where the developers touted PvP and the games were better for it?
PvP is dead in MMOs or should be at least as a major focus.
Darkfall is the most 'hardcore' PvP MMO out there right now. Its a complete ghost town. When you have player driven games you need one thing...players. Whether it be PvP, economy, RP. There is a definite correlation between a games PvP rules and the amount of players it retains.
But its obvious youre in the group I was describing with the initial post. The kind that think PvP is the end all be all, then hate on a game for being whatever and then leaving it once it doesnt meet your expectations. PvE games or limited PvP games dont have nearly the same expectations and if people just took a pass on them altogether it is actually better for them than the initial hype and subsequent flop most games have.
The best part about this opinion is that it isn't actually rooted in any fact. They'll say things like, "well show me a OWPvP game that succeeded!!?!?" If you look at UO, it was a massive success for its time. WoW had PvP servers with tons of OWPvP between factions and it is the most popular MMO on the planet. If you're talking about total factionless PvP, show me a triple-A game that actually has that.
Oh, and 75%? Cool numbers. Where did you get these? Oh right, from no where.
Buddy, you play MMORPG's because you like PvE. Stop your baseless opinions on games that are trying to do something different. None of what you say is true, no matter how hard you want to believe it.
Show me the last PvP centric game to 'succeed'. You cant because they dont exist. You cite two games, WoW and UO, when were those made and released again? When was open world PvP part of their focus? How many games have been released since those two (1997 and 2004) where the developers touted PvP and the games were better for it?
PvP is dead in MMOs or should be at least as a major focus.
Darkfall is the most 'hardcore' PvP MMO out there right now. Its a complete ghost town. When you have player driven games you need one thing...players. Whether it be PvP, economy, RP. There is a definite correlation between a games PvP rules and the amount of players it retains.
Going to disagree that Darkfall is the most "hardcore" PVP mmo on the market. I dont rreally like that term "hardcore" period but if anything would be "hardcore" it would be EVE.
The best part about this opinion is that it isn't actually rooted in any fact. They'll say things like, "well show me a OWPvP game that succeeded!!?!?" If you look at UO, it was a massive success for its time. WoW had PvP servers with tons of OWPvP between factions and it is the most popular MMO on the planet. If you're talking about total factionless PvP, show me a triple-A game that actually has that.
Oh, and 75%? Cool numbers. Where did you get these? Oh right, from no where.
Buddy, you play MMORPG's because you like PvE. Stop your baseless opinions on games that are trying to do something different. None of what you say is true, no matter how hard you want to believe it.
Show me the last PvP centric game to 'succeed'. You cant because they dont exist. You cite two games, WoW and UO, when were those made and released again? When was open world PvP part of their focus? How many games have been released since those two (1997 and 2004) where the developers touted PvP and the games were better for it?
PvP is dead in MMOs or should be at least as a major focus.
Darkfall is the most 'hardcore' PvP MMO out there right now. Its a complete ghost town. When you have player driven games you need one thing...players. Whether it be PvP, economy, RP. There is a definite correlation between a games PvP rules and the amount of players it retains.
But its obvious youre in the group I was describing with the initial post. The kind that think PvP is the end all be all, then hate on a game for being whatever and then leaving it once it doesnt meet your expectations. PvE games or limited PvP games dont have nearly the same expectations and if people just took a pass on them altogether it is actually better for them than the initial hype and subsequent flop most games have.
"I don't like it so they shouldn't make these games anymore."
If you pass on these types of games do us a favor and pass on the forums as well. Why do you have to piss in our wheaties?
Actually the very vast majority of mmos pander to the pve crowd and very very few actually are for the pvp types, so your rant comes off as your being sad that an interesting game is based upon a play style you don't like instead of being desiged for the actual lowest common denominator.. the pve crowd, the 75% you mentioned.. which as far as I know is more common than 25% ya?
This title looks good in the screenshots.. Sounds like something I might try out, because so far the pvp games have flopped except maybe darkfall
The vast majority of MMO's are themeparks, you also don't have to be a pve oriented player to prefer Flagging systems and the like (reply to your second post on the subject under this one).
What makes a sandbox work is community oriented play, without that aspect it is really nothing at all. Hence where almost every "MMORPG sandbox" has gone wrong in the last several years. When half your playerbase is there to kill for the lawl... You have no real community, you have a deterrent to positive growth of that community.
That's why "rules" or "systems" don't work as a deterrent to that killing for the lawl, these folks aren't there to build communities, follow rules, be deterred.. they are there to ruin the experience. They'll do that no matter what devs throw at them. They're also not there to be competitive, they're there to kill the weaker guy and piss him off.
These chest beating arguments about playing a "real man's game" (that is basically what they amount to). miss the forest for the trees on why many who want a sandbox want one without FFA PVP ruining the atmosphere of the virtual world.
Creating something people can turn into a no mans land results in one thing...That's exactly what it becomes, then your game stagnates.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
My original comment simply said its too bad to waste a decent looking game world on a game that after a month no one will be left playing.
EVE isnt hardcore its barely Pvp I havent seen PvP in that game in a hi sec area in forever. Not even a random Jita massacre. So comparing EVE to this game which is going to be open world gankfest anywhere anytime with looting of other players with zero repercussions is stupid.
It will take 3 or 4 losers with nothing better to do about a week to drive anyone willing to even try it away. if it has exploits and hacks it might take less than that.
These concepts are all good until people remember most MMO players, and especially 'hardcore' PvP wannabes are guys with tiny penises sitting at a computer half (if not fully) naked getting stiff ruining other peoples gaming experience.
But have fun at it I guess. Whatver players it has now is probably the max it will see.
The only reason why you haven't seen a successfully launched Open PvP game is because the devs never have enough money to make them . Market is over-saturated by the WoW model. The "majority" is already taken care of. Niche is the way to give hope to a lot of the unsatisfied gamers.
That said, I think you need some sort of good flagging and justice system for open pvp to work, but I haven't played this game so don't really know. I jumped into DF:UW a few months ago and out randomly in the world I saw a couple guys and instead of jumping me we grouped up to level. Ganking and griefing happens, but not always.
My original comment simply said its too bad to waste a decent looking game world on a game that after a month no one will be left playing.
EVE isnt hardcore its barely Pvp I havent seen PvP in that game in a hi sec area in forever. Not even a random Jita massacre. So comparing EVE to this game which is going to be open world gankfest anywhere anytime with looting of other players with zero repercussions is stupid.
It will take 3 or 4 losers with nothing better to do about a week to drive anyone willing to even try it away. if it has exploits and hacks it might take less than that.
These concepts are all good until people remember most MMO players, and especially 'hardcore' PvP wannabes are guys with tiny penises sitting at a computer half (if not fully) naked getting stiff ruining other peoples gaming experience.
But have fun at it I guess. Whatver players it has now is probably the max it will see.
I just want a game like this without the "anytime - anywhere" pvp. Is it really that hard? Every developer out there acts like pve players only like themeparks. I am looking for a skill based sandbox pve for a long time and there is none. Not a single one. Seems like you dont get sandbox without the ffa pvp. It is like a rule. This is one of the reasons why sandbox mmo's aren't succesful enough and locks themselves with only a minor, toxic playerbase.
Make some areas pvp enabled. But dont let some asshole grief me whenever and wherever he wants just because he wants to. Is it really, really that hard?
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
Don't want to say anything too quickly but the system is fully convertable to all types pvp servers. Of course it would create a bit of troubles with balancing but still, it is possible.
As our community is not only based on PvPers, but also PvE or even just a Medieval Setting target it might be a solution someday. Don't take it as a final word, its just a free thought.
If I might ask, as there are some MMO with both server types, could you please let me know your insights on that case?
Originally posted by flizzer I also don't understand why the game cannot use a flag system. Since I don't want to participate in the open world gankfest, I would not flag myself for PvP. Those players who chose to can simply flag themselves for PvP. Without this mechanic I doubt I will even give this game a try.
Being a gamer and someone who led a guild for 16 years we where a guild who ganked the gankers. We helped the newbies. There are guilds out there making it fun, and actually work with a guild rather than play a game like WOW, Rift and just use your guild for loot reasons, raiding, then leave because you did not get what you wanted.
With PVP games, I find more people want to join to have friends and play together, not wander off alone and never hear from them again. This is why I like PVP in games.
Also now a developer myself, flagging systems do not work you know why??? You can be flagged, I wont be. I look at you, your not flagged, I turn my back, you flag and kill me.. Stupid system, That's why people and developers dislike flagging systems.
You guys have a million PVE games, even H1Z1 gave you PVE. Games like GV may not be great with out PVP, because of the theme and mechanics..
FYI, Asheron call 1 had hard core PVP, full loot, and its still out, they had PVE servers and the PVP were more popular go figure.... Not sure whats the deal with people today, getting attached to pixels.
I can model you some armor that you can have for ever if you want? I did that to a guild mate once who whined about losing loot.. So annoying!
Pure PvErs don't get it. The element of PvP being *there* wherever you go in a game world makes the FUN OF THE GAME. I rarely ever PvP in a PvP game but I prefer playing them. Why? Because a human can outsmart you.
I can outsmart an AI in a heartbeat; jump up a rock, swim across a river, etc. in order to win a battle or at least survive. Having a player controlling the other end of my aggressor though, adds an entirely new and different element to playing the game.
It's not about being an ass. It's not about killing people on a whim. It's about knowing I CAN be killed on a whim. If I wanted to play a game where the goal was to outsmart AI, I'd load up a single player game. If I want a game that offers some challenge, then I turn to MMOs.
Pure PvErs don't get it. The element of PvP being *there* wherever you go in a game world makes the FUN OF THE GAME. I rarely ever PvP in a PvP game but I prefer playing them. Why? Because a human can outsmart you.
I can outsmart an AI in a heartbeat; jump up a rock, swim across a river, etc. in order to win a battle or at least survive. Having a player controlling the other end of my aggressor though, adds an entirely new and different element to playing the game.
It's not about being an ass. It's not about killing people on a whim. It's about knowing I CAN be killed on a whim. If I wanted to play a game where the goal was to outsmart AI, I'd load up a single player game. If I want a game that offers some challenge, then I turn to MMOs.
You are not what turns people off from pvp games, it is the griefers that flock to this type of game who set out to make sure your time in it is as miserable as possible. While it can be thrilling at times, once these people take this game over enmasse (and they will) your fun will cease to exist. Happens every time, which is why there has been no real successful game like this since the internet turned into a cesspool. Unless you want to hang your hat on Darkfall....
I played UO back in the day and it was amazing, because just as in real life the majority of people playing were not murdering dicks, and many who were murderers roleplayed the part which made it cool. Now it is all about the "i pwnz joo!!"
First of all, if any think anyone can make a full pvp and 100% loot game with MASS APPEAL, key word here, MASS APPEAL... You are delusional... Full pvp is TODAY, keyword TODAY... a marginal attraction.
How many pvp servers, with NO LOOTING mind you, does WoW have? Exactly... If they were to implement player loot, the number would be even smaller ,trust me. Where do I get these "statistic"? Well let me put it this way, if YOU the reader dont believe me, i dont care, im just saying...
The last PvP oriented game that had good success was DAOC and that was in 1990... See where im going? We are in 2015... So to be fair we have to compare to the times we live in. Wich PVP "hardcore" game had major success recently? (hardcore being pvp everywhere and player loot and all). The answer is none of them. Wich one had very mild success? Darkfall maybe? Maybe some other I dont know about...
So im not saying a pvp game cant finacially succeed, its just not the gonna be a massive success...
The same reason PVPers go into a PVE centric game complaining there is not the right kind of PVP here. Unfortunately for this game they have NOT chosen wisely. Good luck making this game successful. I for one will not waste my cash on this. Once again devs...MMOs are PVE games, not MMOFPS games.
First of all, if any think anyone can make a full pvp and 100% loot game with MASS APPEAL, key word here, MASS APPEAL... You are delusional... Full pvp is TODAY, keyword TODAY... a marginal attraction.
How many pvp servers, with NO LOOTING mind you, does WoW have? Exactly... If they were to implement player loot, the number would be even smaller ,trust me. Where do I get these "statistic"? Well let me put it this way, if YOU the reader dont believe me, i dont care, im just saying...
The last PvP oriented game that had good success was DAOC and that was in 1990... See where im going? We are in 2015... So to be fair we have to compare to the times we live in. Wich PVP "hardcore" game had major success recently? (hardcore being pvp everywhere and player loot and all). The answer is none of them. Wich one had very mild success? Darkfall maybe? Maybe some other I dont know about...
So im not saying a pvp game cant finacially succeed, its just not the gonna be a massive success...
First of all, if any think anyone can make a full pvp and 100% loot game with MASS APPEAL, key word here, MASS APPEAL... You are delusional... Full pvp is TODAY, keyword TODAY... a marginal attraction.
How many pvp servers, with NO LOOTING mind you, does WoW have? Exactly... If they were to implement player loot, the number would be even smaller ,trust me. Where do I get these "statistic"? Well let me put it this way, if YOU the reader dont believe me, i dont care, im just saying...
The last PvP oriented game that had good success was DAOC and that was in 1990... See where im going? We are in 2015... So to be fair we have to compare to the times we live in. Wich PVP "hardcore" game had major success recently? (hardcore being pvp everywhere and player loot and all). The answer is none of them. Wich one had very mild success? Darkfall maybe? Maybe some other I dont know about...
So im not saying a pvp game cant finacially succeed, its just not the gonna be a massive success...
Take it or leave it.
i dont think there making a mass appeal game
I'm definitely sure they're not.
But that's not a problem for them if they correctly scale down the target numbers in recognition of this. The mistakes other developers have made is thinking their niche game will somehow attract the mass market.
History has show time and again that it doesn't, and development teams need to scale down their aspirations and plan accordingly.
The mmo genre does need variety, and hopefully this game will be a success for the type of playerbase it is aimed at. But the risks are considerably higher than the mainstream formats.
First of all, if any think anyone can make a full pvp and 100% loot game with MASS APPEAL, key word here, MASS APPEAL... You are delusional... Full pvp is TODAY, keyword TODAY... a marginal attraction.
How many pvp servers, with NO LOOTING mind you, does WoW have? Exactly... If they were to implement player loot, the number would be even smaller ,trust me. Where do I get these "statistic"? Well let me put it this way, if YOU the reader dont believe me, i dont care, im just saying...
The last PvP oriented game that had good success was DAOC and that was in 1990... See where im going? We are in 2015... So to be fair we have to compare to the times we live in. Wich PVP "hardcore" game had major success recently? (hardcore being pvp everywhere and player loot and all). The answer is none of them. Wich one had very mild success? Darkfall maybe? Maybe some other I dont know about...
So im not saying a pvp game cant finacially succeed, its just not the gonna be a massive success...
Take it or leave it.
Actually Daoc was 2001, and it was in not considered a "pvp" game since 90% of the areas of the game were pve and protected. In no way did it have pvp as is being discussed with this game. The end game was RvR/pvp focused. Warhammer Online did also have a good run and was RvR just as Daoc was, with as many low population MMOs that stick around today I have no clue why this game couldn not. The only reason it died was because Mythic made some stupid changes. GW2 is also very popular for WvW.
So let's recap here because I actually agree with you....the last good, successful game that had full loot open world pvp was a loooooooong time ago in 1997, Ultima Online. Ironically it failed because it got too carebear. Go figure.
First of all, if any think anyone can make a full pvp and 100% loot game with MASS APPEAL, key word here, MASS APPEAL... You are delusional... Full pvp is TODAY, keyword TODAY... a marginal attraction.
How many pvp servers, with NO LOOTING mind you, does WoW have? Exactly... If they were to implement player loot, the number would be even smaller ,trust me. Where do I get these "statistic"? Well let me put it this way, if YOU the reader dont believe me, i dont care, im just saying...
The last PvP oriented game that had good success was DAOC and that was in 1990... See where im going? We are in 2015... So to be fair we have to compare to the times we live in. Wich PVP "hardcore" game had major success recently? (hardcore being pvp everywhere and player loot and all). The answer is none of them. Wich one had very mild success? Darkfall maybe? Maybe some other I dont know about...
So im not saying a pvp game cant finacially succeed, its just not the gonna be a massive success...
Take it or leave it.
Actually Daoc was 2001, and it was in not considered a "pvp" game since 90% of the areas of the game were pve and protected. In no way did it have pvp as is being discussed with this game. The end game was RvR/pvp focused. Warhammer Online did also have a good run and was RvR just as Daoc was, with as many low population MMOs that stick around today I have no clue why this game couldn not. The only reason it died was because Mythic made some stupid changes. GW2 is also very popular for WvW.
So let's recap here because I actually agree with you....the last good, successful game that had full loot open world pvp was a loooooooong time ago in 1997, Ultima Online. Ironically it failed because it got too carebear. Go figure.
Yep, I said that on top of my head, remembering it being at the end of 90' but was actually the begining of 2000... My bad. Personally, i think there is a reason why the last game with "full loot open world pvp" like you said was in 1997. None of that as ever worked out really good since then. That's almost 20 years with mild to no success since.
I personally believe that it stop working, not because all the company since then have been very bad at making games but because it's just not a good model to use anymore. Just stating my opinion here, not arguing or contesting anyone's idea...
Comments
Awesome job, the game has massively improved since I last logged on keep up the good work. Really love the atmosphere in the world.
It would be cool if you could get abit more Mount and Bladelike combat, directional swings and directional blocks, it almost has that feel atm.
I think I am going to have to up my investment when I get some more disposable income.
Show me the last PvP centric game to 'succeed'. You cant because they dont exist. You cite two games, WoW and UO, when were those made and released again? When was open world PvP part of their focus? How many games have been released since those two (1997 and 2004) where the developers touted PvP and the games were better for it?
PvP is dead in MMOs or should be at least as a major focus.
Darkfall is the most 'hardcore' PvP MMO out there right now. Its a complete ghost town. When you have player driven games you need one thing...players. Whether it be PvP, economy, RP. There is a definite correlation between a games PvP rules and the amount of players it retains.
But its obvious youre in the group I was describing with the initial post. The kind that think PvP is the end all be all, then hate on a game for being whatever and then leaving it once it doesnt meet your expectations. PvE games or limited PvP games dont have nearly the same expectations and if people just took a pass on them altogether it is actually better for them than the initial hype and subsequent flop most games have.
Going to disagree that Darkfall is the most "hardcore" PVP mmo on the market. I dont rreally like that term "hardcore" period but if anything would be "hardcore" it would be EVE.
"I don't like it so they shouldn't make these games anymore."
If you pass on these types of games do us a favor and pass on the forums as well. Why do you have to piss in our wheaties?
The vast majority of MMO's are themeparks, you also don't have to be a pve oriented player to prefer Flagging systems and the like (reply to your second post on the subject under this one).
What makes a sandbox work is community oriented play, without that aspect it is really nothing at all. Hence where almost every "MMORPG sandbox" has gone wrong in the last several years. When half your playerbase is there to kill for the lawl... You have no real community, you have a deterrent to positive growth of that community.
That's why "rules" or "systems" don't work as a deterrent to that killing for the lawl, these folks aren't there to build communities, follow rules, be deterred.. they are there to ruin the experience. They'll do that no matter what devs throw at them. They're also not there to be competitive, they're there to kill the weaker guy and piss him off.
These chest beating arguments about playing a "real man's game" (that is basically what they amount to). miss the forest for the trees on why many who want a sandbox want one without FFA PVP ruining the atmosphere of the virtual world.
Creating something people can turn into a no mans land results in one thing...That's exactly what it becomes, then your game stagnates.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
My original comment simply said its too bad to waste a decent looking game world on a game that after a month no one will be left playing.
EVE isnt hardcore its barely Pvp I havent seen PvP in that game in a hi sec area in forever. Not even a random Jita massacre. So comparing EVE to this game which is going to be open world gankfest anywhere anytime with looting of other players with zero repercussions is stupid.
It will take 3 or 4 losers with nothing better to do about a week to drive anyone willing to even try it away. if it has exploits and hacks it might take less than that.
These concepts are all good until people remember most MMO players, and especially 'hardcore' PvP wannabes are guys with tiny penises sitting at a computer half (if not fully) naked getting stiff ruining other peoples gaming experience.
But have fun at it I guess. Whatver players it has now is probably the max it will see.
The only reason why you haven't seen a successfully launched Open PvP game is because the devs never have enough money to make them
. Market is over-saturated by the WoW model. The "majority" is already taken care of. Niche is the way to give hope to a lot of the unsatisfied gamers.
That said, I think you need some sort of good flagging and justice system for open pvp to work, but I haven't played this game so don't really know. I jumped into DF:UW a few months ago and out randomly in the world I saw a couple guys and instead of jumping me we grouped up to level. Ganking and griefing happens, but not always.
----
Keep up the good work GV. Game looks gorgeous.
I just want a game like this without the "anytime - anywhere" pvp. Is it really that hard? Every developer out there acts like pve players only like themeparks. I am looking for a skill based sandbox pve for a long time and there is none. Not a single one. Seems like you dont get sandbox without the ffa pvp. It is like a rule. This is one of the reasons why sandbox mmo's aren't succesful enough and locks themselves with only a minor, toxic playerbase.
Make some areas pvp enabled. But dont let some asshole grief me whenever and wherever he wants just because he wants to. Is it really, really that hard?
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
Don't want to say anything too quickly but the system is fully convertable to all types pvp servers. Of course it would create a bit of troubles with balancing but still, it is possible.
As our community is not only based on PvPers, but also PvE or even just a Medieval Setting target it might be a solution someday. Don't take it as a final word, its just a free thought.
If I might ask, as there are some MMO with both server types, could you please let me know your insights on that case?
Support/Sound Designer
www.gloriavictisgame.com/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gloria-Victis/352162408142252
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/896/Gloria-Victis.html
Being a gamer and someone who led a guild for 16 years we where a guild who ganked the gankers. We helped the newbies. There are guilds out there making it fun, and actually work with a guild rather than play a game like WOW, Rift and just use your guild for loot reasons, raiding, then leave because you did not get what you wanted.
With PVP games, I find more people want to join to have friends and play together, not wander off alone and never hear from them again. This is why I like PVP in games.
Also now a developer myself, flagging systems do not work you know why??? You can be flagged, I wont be. I look at you, your not flagged, I turn my back, you flag and kill me.. Stupid system, That's why people and developers dislike flagging systems.
You guys have a million PVE games, even H1Z1 gave you PVE. Games like GV may not be great with out PVP, because of the theme and mechanics..
FYI, Asheron call 1 had hard core PVP, full loot, and its still out, they had PVE servers and the PVP were more popular go figure.... Not sure whats the deal with people today, getting attached to pixels.
I can model you some armor that you can have for ever if you want? I did that to a guild mate once who whined about losing loot.. So annoying!
Pure PvErs don't get it. The element of PvP being *there* wherever you go in a game world makes the FUN OF THE GAME. I rarely ever PvP in a PvP game but I prefer playing them. Why? Because a human can outsmart you.
I can outsmart an AI in a heartbeat; jump up a rock, swim across a river, etc. in order to win a battle or at least survive. Having a player controlling the other end of my aggressor though, adds an entirely new and different element to playing the game.
It's not about being an ass. It's not about killing people on a whim. It's about knowing I CAN be killed on a whim. If I wanted to play a game where the goal was to outsmart AI, I'd load up a single player game. If I want a game that offers some challenge, then I turn to MMOs.
You are not what turns people off from pvp games, it is the griefers that flock to this type of game who set out to make sure your time in it is as miserable as possible. While it can be thrilling at times, once these people take this game over enmasse (and they will) your fun will cease to exist. Happens every time, which is why there has been no real successful game like this since the internet turned into a cesspool. Unless you want to hang your hat on Darkfall....
I played UO back in the day and it was amazing, because just as in real life the majority of people playing were not murdering dicks, and many who were murderers roleplayed the part which made it cool. Now it is all about the "i pwnz joo!!"
First of all, if any think anyone can make a full pvp and 100% loot game with MASS APPEAL, key word here, MASS APPEAL... You are delusional... Full pvp is TODAY, keyword TODAY... a marginal attraction.
How many pvp servers, with NO LOOTING mind you, does WoW have? Exactly... If they were to implement player loot, the number would be even smaller ,trust me. Where do I get these "statistic"? Well let me put it this way, if YOU the reader dont believe me, i dont care, im just saying...
The last PvP oriented game that had good success was DAOC and that was in 1990... See where im going? We are in 2015... So to be fair we have to compare to the times we live in. Wich PVP "hardcore" game had major success recently? (hardcore being pvp everywhere and player loot and all). The answer is none of them. Wich one had very mild success? Darkfall maybe? Maybe some other I dont know about...
So im not saying a pvp game cant finacially succeed, its just not the gonna be a massive success...
Take it or leave it.
i dont think there making a mass appeal game
I'm definitely sure they're not.
But that's not a problem for them if they correctly scale down the target numbers in recognition of this. The mistakes other developers have made is thinking their niche game will somehow attract the mass market.
History has show time and again that it doesn't, and development teams need to scale down their aspirations and plan accordingly.
The mmo genre does need variety, and hopefully this game will be a success for the type of playerbase it is aimed at. But the risks are considerably higher than the mainstream formats.
Actually Daoc was 2001, and it was in not considered a "pvp" game since 90% of the areas of the game were pve and protected. In no way did it have pvp as is being discussed with this game. The end game was RvR/pvp focused. Warhammer Online did also have a good run and was RvR just as Daoc was, with as many low population MMOs that stick around today I have no clue why this game couldn not. The only reason it died was because Mythic made some stupid changes. GW2 is also very popular for WvW.
So let's recap here because I actually agree with you....the last good, successful game that had full loot open world pvp was a loooooooong time ago in 1997, Ultima Online. Ironically it failed because it got too carebear. Go figure.
Yep, I said that on top of my head, remembering it being at the end of 90' but was actually the begining of 2000... My bad. Personally, i think there is a reason why the last game with "full loot open world pvp" like you said was in 1997. None of that as ever worked out really good since then. That's almost 20 years with mild to no success since.
I personally believe that it stop working, not because all the company since then have been very bad at making games but because it's just not a good model to use anymore. Just stating my opinion here, not arguing or contesting anyone's idea...