Originally posted by ragz45 As far as and WoW are ESO concerned I think the best way to measure the activity in game for us players would be through campaigns and WvW. Given that the magaserver design makes it impossible to measure it by # of people in town etc. The only way to measure a mega server would be through campaigns. (how many are there at any given time, how populated are they). Or in GW2's case, WvW. How many people do you see in wvw on a regular basis?
Well to be fair you can look at GW2s quartly report to get a decent idea on how things are trending. Since June of last year ESO has sold another 200k physical boxes. We all know the rate of digital downloads is many times the number of physical boxes. I think that's a decent indication of growth of growth.
200K physical boxes sold doesn't mean 200K retention rate. All popular MMOS had stellar sales at release, what matter is how many stayed.
Well, I'm offering sales data that points towards growth. Do you have any sales or retention data to support you assertion?
Why do you think i am questioning your statement of 'steady increase since release'? if i had any official data i would share it here rather than just speculations being passed off as facts.
Once again to repeat myself..number of boxes sold are no indicator of steady growth. Steady growth is measured in terms of how many of those people who bought the game continue to play and support the game.
If you don't have the official data bout the retention rate then you can not talk about 'steady growth'. You are the one who made this claim not me. Onus of proof is on you and not me.
If you could actually stay on purpose to the thread and not always rant and rave the OP wanted unofficial feel of the population of games. There is something to be said for those feelings over statistics. Eve has how many accounts...how many of those belong to the same individuals.
Originally posted by ragz45 As far as and WoW are ESO concerned I think the best way to measure the activity in game for us players would be through campaigns and WvW. Given that the magaserver design makes it impossible to measure it by # of people in town etc. The only way to measure a mega server would be through campaigns. (how many are there at any given time, how populated are they). Or in GW2's case, WvW. How many people do you see in wvw on a regular basis?
Well to be fair you can look at GW2s quartly report to get a decent idea on how things are trending. Since June of last year ESO has sold another 200k physical boxes. We all know the rate of digital downloads is many times the number of physical boxes. I think that's a decent indication of growth of growth.
200K physical boxes sold doesn't mean 200K retention rate. All popular MMOS had stellar sales at release, what matter is how many stayed.
Well, I'm offering sales data that points towards growth. Do you have any sales or retention data to support you assertion?
Why do you think i am questioning your statement of 'steady increase since release'? if i had any official data i would share it here rather than just speculations being passed off as facts.
Once again to repeat myself..number of boxes sold are no indicator of steady growth. Steady growth is measured in terms of how many of those people who bought the game continue to play and support the game.
If you don't have the official data bout the retention rate then you can not talk about 'steady growth'. You are the one who made this claim not me. Onus of proof is on you and not me.
If you could actually stay on purpose to the thread and not always rant and rave the OP wanted unofficial feel of the population of games. There is something to be said for those feelings over statistics. Eve has how many accounts...how many of those belong to the same individuals.
The purpose of this thread is to get current unofficial numbers then please do that rather than making claims that 'game is growing steadily since release'.
I have no doubt ESO population must be on rise now after annoucement of B2P as people would want to sub and get some crowns beforehand but that isn't the same as making claims about steady growth since release.
So i have no idea why are you bringing up this point with me. the title of Op says 'what MMO's currently have a population increase"
Originally posted by ragz45 As far as and WoW are ESO concerned I think the best way to measure the activity in game for us players would be through campaigns and WvW. Given that the magaserver design makes it impossible to measure it by # of people in town etc. The only way to measure a mega server would be through campaigns. (how many are there at any given time, how populated are they). Or in GW2's case, WvW. How many people do you see in wvw on a regular basis?
Well to be fair you can look at GW2s quartly report to get a decent idea on how things are trending. Since June of last year ESO has sold another 200k physical boxes. We all know the rate of digital downloads is many times the number of physical boxes. I think that's a decent indication of growth of growth.
200K physical boxes sold doesn't mean 200K retention rate. All popular MMOS had stellar sales at release, what matter is how many stayed.
Well, I'm offering sales data that points towards growth. Do you have any sales or retention data to support you assertion?
Why do you think i am questioning your statement of 'steady increase since release'? if i had any official data i would share it here rather than just speculations being passed off as facts.
Once again to repeat myself..number of boxes sold are no indicator of steady growth. Steady growth is measured in terms of how many of those people who bought the game continue to play and support the game.
If you don't have the official data bout the retention rate then you can not talk about 'steady growth'. You are the one who made this claim not me. Onus of proof is on you and not me.
retention rate usually doesn't change all that much after the first couple months. that many box sales tends to support that the population is probably growing slowly(from its ~3month low) or atleast not declining.
as to the ops question
GW2- expansion announcement
ESO- b2p announcement
SWTOR- its profits are increasing over time
darkfall- they seem to have got there shit together and the game has has felt more populated then it did a year ago.
WoW- not as high as when WoD was released but still probably higher then the MoP low
retention rate usually doesn't change all that much after the first couple months. that many box sales tends to support that the population is probably growing slowly(from its ~3month low) or atleast not declining.
as to the ops question
GW2- expansion announcement
ESO- b2p announcement
SWTOR- its profits are increasing over time
darkfall- they seem to have got there shit together and the game has has felt more populated then it did a year ago.
WoW- not as high as when WoD was released but still probably higher then the MoP low
If anything i have learned from past releases is that the biggest drop off in population comes within first 2 to 6 months of MMOS. So yes retention rate does change a lot after release. look at any MMO from past SWTOR, RIFT, AOC etc. there is significant drop in population after first month is over.
If the game world seems pretty populated to you, does it matter what the numbers are, or whether it's going up or down, or what the server architecture is?
EVE shows how many are logged in, and the numbers are definitely lower than in it's heyday a few years ago, but still very busy everywhere, fools in my mining belt right now annoying me.
So I'm not concerned about trends in players, neither should most of you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by ragz45 As far as and WoW are ESO concerned I think the best way to measure the activity in game for us players would be through campaigns and WvW. Given that the magaserver design makes it impossible to measure it by # of people in town etc. The only way to measure a mega server would be through campaigns. (how many are there at any given time, how populated are they). Or in GW2's case, WvW. How many people do you see in wvw on a regular basis?
Well to be fair you can look at GW2s quartly report to get a decent idea on how things are trending. Since June of last year ESO has sold another 200k physical boxes. We all know the rate of digital downloads is many times the number of physical boxes. I think that's a decent indication of growth of growth.
200K physical boxes sold doesn't mean 200K retention rate. All popular MMOS had stellar sales at release, what matter is how many stayed.
Well, I'm offering sales data that points towards growth. Do you have any sales or retention data to support you assertion?
Sales data only shows growth when the game first launches (when all sales are growth). Just look at WoW which has at times had great sales (compared to other games) yet was still in decline.
When games publish numbers we can then see if they are going up/down/flat. However, until that happens, the best data we have is from sites like SuperData, that aggregate data, and get some feedback from the publishers.
We can speculate that at times of activity (expansion, business model change, etc) that a game will have more player activity as well, but that does not necessarily mean a population increase, or game growth.
What we get when we try to scale up our individual experiences by 100k or 1M times is much worse than using XFire or Raptr. So we may as well just use them; it is real data with the same problem we have: how does the data relate to "the whole". If a game is exclusive to Steam we can but otherwise - as I say - just use Raptr or whatever.
As far as sales data goes pretty much the same problem. Neilsen started producing some in the US and because of their name the data started to be discussed - until both EA and Activision rubbished it. They still produce data but it is a) different and b) makes no great claims.
And if you check any game for which a publisher releases actual data with what e.g. vgchartz shows the numbers have, in my experience, been majorly wrong every time. Known vgchartz to change their historic data as well. Watch Dogs numbers were released last year by platform by Ubi Soft for example.
And this should come as no surprise if you read how these sites arrive at their estimates: comparisons with other games - so if WoW is selling lots assume other mmos are selling lots; focus groups - which is what Neilsen used; historic trends - oh dear; tracked data from millions of uses (probably means Raptr
So we may as well just discuss Raptr and XFire trends. And if the numbers support a person view on a game the data is wonderful; if the numbers don't it is useless. More accurate than our guesses though.
Originally posted by rodingo Originally posted by FoomerangJudging by my experience since beta, I'd say ffxiv is the most stable. Maybe slightly going up and down
One of these days I'm going to try that game out. I think they have a trial too. Combat is very polarizing. You'll either love it or hate it. I kinda hate it haha. But the crafting gathering economy housing and the crapton of other activities are amazing
There is no way to obtain irrefutable accurate information on subscribers. Only the companies responsible for the games have access to the statistics and their interpretation of an active account may be different from yours.
The majority count anyone who is paying for a subscription, anyone in a free trial period or anyone who has been active on an account within the last month. They make no distinction for users with multiple accounts so they will be counted separately.
Over 80% of mmo gamers prefer fantasy genre, since 2009 there has been a decline in mmo gamers while people playing all video games in the US has risen 241 percent since 2008. ref
So I'm curious what MMO's are you playing atm that you notice a month to month population increase in? Whether it's through more people in citiies, more players to group with, or what have you. Since most companies don't release any kind of player retention metrics, these are the only notable things by which to measure this sort of thing.
We hear enough about what MMO's are bleeding players, so lets flip the table and go positive. What MMO's are retaining their players?
Why is the OP asking the question is important.
There is a HUGE difference in player base types,healthy ones unhealthy ones ect ect.A perfect example is if 90% of the population stick to the same core of players repeating the same content over and over aka dungeon running.They are not interacting with the server so might as well be on a 20-25 man shard.
What if the OP is looking for a NEW game to play and all noob zones are barren waste lands,then again merely posting total numbers would do little to answer that question.
A HEALTHY player base is the most important one and HOW those players are playing the game is also important.Open world gaming means EVERYONE is interacting with each other and that is IF the content requires it.If all one is doing is solo questing,then why care what game has how many players.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I just restarted ESO this last week and am very surprised at how man people are in every area I go. Seems more people now then when it launched. Just seems to be a lot of players.
Originally posted by Keushpuppy I just restarted ESO this last week and am very surprised at how man people are in every area I go. Seems more people now then when it launched. Just seems to be a lot of players.
It'll be a game hop soon. The content locusts will be able to add it to their game list come this March when it goes B2P. That's likely why they are seeing the increased numbers.
I try to stay away from those people as much as I can and so I've left ESO and now back to SWTOR which has a paygate for post 50 content so it does a fine job of keeping those people at bay.
I play SWTOR and my server seems to have increased activity. But that's not really surprising since they recently released an expansion. Every indication I'm seeing suggests they are in an upswing for the time being. Whether that continues after the newness of the expansion wears off remains to be seen. I hope it does. It is among my favorite MMOs. I'm not one to stick with any MMO long, but SWTOR is one of 3 MMOs that I have played for a year or more. The other two being WoW and Eve.
You have WOW and then you have all the others that are around a million or less. WoW and Eve are probably the only two games that continued to grow in active players after the initial surge. I imagine that ESO will see huge growth when they release on console.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Judging by my experience since beta, I'd say ffxiv is the most stable. Maybe slightly going up and down
One of these days I'm going to try that game out. I think they have a trial too.
I don't know if it is growing, but it is certainly remaining steady. You can't even make a character on many of the servers unless you log in at off peak times. Like the other person said, combat is kind of slow, but they do have a ton of things to do. I also like the fact that I can level all classes on one character, though it involves a ton of grinding.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
GW2 we don'y know since it has megaservers / instancing. Forums are busy but after the recent news you would expect that.
TESO we don't know since it uses megaservers - and after the recent news you would expect the forums to be busy.
SWTOR - hard to tell; although not classed as mrgaservers they are not small and there is a huge amount of instancing. And it to has had a recent topic of conversation with Revan.
Wow went from 6.8M to 10M+ (not 10 to 13) so it certainly had a rise; lots of fourm activity of course.
Eve - there is speculation given the lack of any recent announcements but again megaserver tech ....
I am seeing a pattern here .... we don't know.
Well, GW2 did have a lot more instances open for silvermarches the last week so there were plenty of players at least checking in since the expansion reveal. f that just is very temporary or not is anybodys guess.
With Wow it had a huge increase when the last expansion released but how many of the returning player that is still there and how things will go in the next few months is also unsknown.
In ESOs case i expect a rather large dip until the B2P starts, after that it might grow (probably will with the console launch, maybe even double the players) but you can never be sure.
Yeah, we have very little clue. You can only notice large changes and it is very hard to guess if a large influx of play is just something temporary due to publicity, a newly released expansion or something similar or if it is something more permanent.
We do know a bit of which games are the larger right and the small games but judging exact player numbers are close to impossible, even the games that actually announce numbers usually announce the numbers a month or more afterwards and who know what the numbers are right now?
And frankly, as long as the games earn enough money to keep the crews intact and add some updates, and an expansion now and then it matters little.
I would have to say SWTOR. A ton and I mean a ton of more people from when I played a year ago. People everywhere and I'm not being facetious.
I wonder how much it has to do with Star Wars Rebels and anticipation for the new movie? I wouldn't be surprised if that game had a massive population increase in December.
Originally posted by bcbully ESO seems to have been growing steady sense a few moths after launch. The have the busiest forums out there atm.25 or so threads on the front page all with comments within the last 17 mins.
There we go again. No proof, no data, no official stats to back it up. Before you quote me super data i will just save you time by saying no thanks.
There is absolutely no official info out there which shows or indicates that ESO has been growing 'steady' since launch. You really take us for fools don't you? there is not one single MMO other than WOW which had nothing but upward steady increase.
WoW had a huge drop in MoP, they were at 6.8 million at the tail end of that expansion.
So the 'nothing but upward steady increase' is factually false.
Then jumped back to 10m. I am surprised that wow subs only dropped to 7m given that there was absolutely no new content for 12 months prior to WOD.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
GW2 we don'y know since it has megaservers / instancing. Forums are busy but after the recent news you would expect that.
TESO we don't know since it uses megaservers - and after the recent news you would expect the forums to be busy.
SWTOR - hard to tell; although not classed as mrgaservers they are not small and there is a huge amount of instancing. And it to has had a recent topic of conversation with Revan.
Wow went from 6.8M to 10M+ (not 10 to 13) so it certainly had a rise; lots of fourm activity of course.
Eve - there is speculation given the lack of any recent announcements but again megaserver tech ....
I am seeing a pattern here .... we don't know.
Well, GW2 did have a lot more instances open for silvermarches the last week so there were plenty of players at least checking in since the expansion reveal. f that just is very temporary or not is anybodys guess.
With Wow it had a huge increase when the last expansion released but how many of the returning player that is still there and how things will go in the next few months is also unsknown.
In ESOs case i expect a rather large dip until the B2P starts, after that it might grow (probably will with the console launch, maybe even double the players) but you can never be sure.
Yeah, we have very little clue. You can only notice large changes and it is very hard to guess if a large influx of play is just something temporary due to publicity, a newly released expansion or something similar or if it is something more permanent.
We do know a bit of which games are the larger right and the small games but judging exact player numbers are close to impossible, even the games that actually announce numbers usually announce the numbers a month or more afterwards and who know what the numbers are right now?
And frankly, as long as the games earn enough money to keep the crews intact and add some updates, and an expansion now and then it matters little.
It's been the opposite. I'm seeing people I haven't seen in months back. It seems like people are coming back to prepare for 1.6 Kinda like they do for WoWs pre-expansion patch. It's a fun time in ESO right now seeing old friends. I just ran tonight with my old group/guild leader. He's been gone for 4-5 months. He's the best small group leader the game has seen. Behind his lead 8 of us would mow through 30. A truly brilliant pvp mind. Sounds silly? It's true. Yeah fun times atm in ESO.
WoW and that is about it. Anyone who says FFXIV or ESO are gaining subs is delusional. Usually xpack subs only last a month or two in WoW so those will go away soon too. The MMORPG market is in a really bad place atm because they have just had too many mediocre games in a row now. Nothing has really been able to take off.
Comments
If you could actually stay on purpose to the thread and not always rant and rave the OP wanted unofficial feel of the population of games. There is something to be said for those feelings over statistics. Eve has how many accounts...how many of those belong to the same individuals.
The purpose of this thread is to get current unofficial numbers then please do that rather than making claims that 'game is growing steadily since release'.
I have no doubt ESO population must be on rise now after annoucement of B2P as people would want to sub and get some crowns beforehand but that isn't the same as making claims about steady growth since release.
So i have no idea why are you bringing up this point with me. the title of Op says 'what MMO's currently have a population increase"
retention rate usually doesn't change all that much after the first couple months. that many box sales tends to support that the population is probably growing slowly(from its ~3month low) or atleast not declining.
as to the ops question
GW2- expansion announcement
ESO- b2p announcement
SWTOR- its profits are increasing over time
darkfall- they seem to have got there shit together and the game has has felt more populated then it did a year ago.
WoW- not as high as when WoD was released but still probably higher then the MoP low
If anything i have learned from past releases is that the biggest drop off in population comes within first 2 to 6 months of MMOS. So yes retention rate does change a lot after release. look at any MMO from past SWTOR, RIFT, AOC etc. there is significant drop in population after first month is over.
If the game world seems pretty populated to you, does it matter what the numbers are, or whether it's going up or down, or what the server architecture is?
EVE shows how many are logged in, and the numbers are definitely lower than in it's heyday a few years ago, but still very busy everywhere, fools in my mining belt right now annoying me.
So I'm not concerned about trends in players, neither should most of you.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What we get when we try to scale up our individual experiences by 100k or 1M times is much worse than using XFire or Raptr. So we may as well just use them; it is real data with the same problem we have: how does the data relate to "the whole". If a game is exclusive to Steam we can but otherwise - as I say - just use Raptr or whatever.
As far as sales data goes pretty much the same problem. Neilsen started producing some in the US and because of their name the data started to be discussed - until both EA and Activision rubbished it. They still produce data but it is a) different and b) makes no great claims.
And if you check any game for which a publisher releases actual data with what e.g. vgchartz shows the numbers have, in my experience, been majorly wrong every time. Known vgchartz to change their historic data as well. Watch Dogs numbers were released last year by platform by Ubi Soft for example.
And this should come as no surprise if you read how these sites arrive at their estimates: comparisons with other games - so if WoW is selling lots assume other mmos are selling lots; focus groups - which is what Neilsen used; historic trends - oh dear; tracked data from millions of uses (probably means Raptr
So we may as well just discuss Raptr and XFire trends. And if the numbers support a person view on a game the data is wonderful; if the numbers don't it is useless. More accurate than our guesses though.
Combat is very polarizing. You'll either love it or hate it. I kinda hate it haha. But the crafting gathering economy housing and the crapton of other activities are amazing
150130
There is no way to obtain irrefutable accurate information on subscribers. Only the companies responsible for the games have access to the statistics and their interpretation of an active account may be different from yours.
The majority count anyone who is paying for a subscription, anyone in a free trial period or anyone who has been active on an account within the last month. They make no distinction for users with multiple accounts so they will be counted separately.
Over 80% of mmo gamers prefer fantasy genre, since 2009 there has been a decline in mmo gamers while people playing all video games in the US has risen 241 percent since 2008.
ref
Why is the OP asking the question is important.
There is a HUGE difference in player base types,healthy ones unhealthy ones ect ect.A perfect example is if 90% of the population stick to the same core of players repeating the same content over and over aka dungeon running.They are not interacting with the server so might as well be on a 20-25 man shard.
What if the OP is looking for a NEW game to play and all noob zones are barren waste lands,then again merely posting total numbers would do little to answer that question.
A HEALTHY player base is the most important one and HOW those players are playing the game is also important.Open world gaming means EVERYONE is interacting with each other and that is IF the content requires it.If all one is doing is solo questing,then why care what game has how many players.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I would have to say SWTOR. A ton and I mean a ton of more people from when I played a year ago. People everywhere and I'm not being facetious.
It'll be a game hop soon. The content locusts will be able to add it to their game list come this March when it goes B2P. That's likely why they are seeing the increased numbers.
I try to stay away from those people as much as I can and so I've left ESO and now back to SWTOR which has a paygate for post 50 content so it does a fine job of keeping those people at bay.
I'll just drop this here:
http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
I play SWTOR and my server seems to have increased activity. But that's not really surprising since they recently released an expansion. Every indication I'm seeing suggests they are in an upswing for the time being. Whether that continues after the newness of the expansion wears off remains to be seen. I hope it does. It is among my favorite MMOs. I'm not one to stick with any MMO long, but SWTOR is one of 3 MMOs that I have played for a year or more. The other two being WoW and Eve.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I don't know if it is growing, but it is certainly remaining steady. You can't even make a character on many of the servers unless you log in at off peak times. Like the other person said, combat is kind of slow, but they do have a ton of things to do. I also like the fact that I can level all classes on one character, though it involves a ton of grinding.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Well, GW2 did have a lot more instances open for silvermarches the last week so there were plenty of players at least checking in since the expansion reveal. f that just is very temporary or not is anybodys guess.
With Wow it had a huge increase when the last expansion released but how many of the returning player that is still there and how things will go in the next few months is also unsknown.
In ESOs case i expect a rather large dip until the B2P starts, after that it might grow (probably will with the console launch, maybe even double the players) but you can never be sure.
Yeah, we have very little clue. You can only notice large changes and it is very hard to guess if a large influx of play is just something temporary due to publicity, a newly released expansion or something similar or if it is something more permanent.
We do know a bit of which games are the larger right and the small games but judging exact player numbers are close to impossible, even the games that actually announce numbers usually announce the numbers a month or more afterwards and who know what the numbers are right now?
And frankly, as long as the games earn enough money to keep the crews intact and add some updates, and an expansion now and then it matters little.
I wonder how much it has to do with Star Wars Rebels and anticipation for the new movie? I wouldn't be surprised if that game had a massive population increase in December.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
Edgar Allan Poe
Then jumped back to 10m. I am surprised that wow subs only dropped to 7m given that there was absolutely no new content for 12 months prior to WOD.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
yeh i notice that in MH too.
Given that it is a pretty good game, and with all the marvel tie-ins, it is just going to get better.
It's been the opposite. I'm seeing people I haven't seen in months back. It seems like people are coming back to prepare for 1.6 Kinda like they do for WoWs pre-expansion patch. It's a fun time in ESO right now seeing old friends. I just ran tonight with my old group/guild leader. He's been gone for 4-5 months. He's the best small group leader the game has seen. Behind his lead 8 of us would mow through 30. A truly brilliant pvp mind. Sounds silly? It's true. Yeah fun times atm in ESO.
WoW and that is about it. Anyone who says FFXIV or ESO are gaining subs is delusional. Usually xpack subs only last a month or two in WoW so those will go away soon too. The MMORPG market is in a really bad place atm because they have just had too many mediocre games in a row now. Nothing has really been able to take off.