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I think it would be great to see a mmorpg with quest series dependent on deciphering foreign (fictional) languages. A couple in game might have cyphers, a couple might be spoken by npcs, others have no cyphers and are "dead", or upsoken languages. Clues garnered would then lead to obscure localities or practice of esoteric rituals, which then lead to more clues and ultimately decent rewards, not only in "material" form of gold or items, but also titles and prestige. Some games, such as TSW, have excellent cypher quests, but none seem to have quests without cyphers, forcing the player to figure it on his own.
I see two issues, in a practical sense. The first is that such obscure reasoning would be too difficult for the average layperson, and while that's part of the fun and achievement of those that do, perhaps add skills to the character set, or an entire scholar-like class, to which would be afforded "hints", such as ghostly-hued renditions of the script superimposed in the ui. The second is that the cypher would invariably be posted in online hints, and that's ok for the "easier ones". More challenging examples likely would become closely guarded secrets for a time, at least until fresh content of the same type is implemented.
When I go looking for an MMO to play, this is what I try to search for (and usually fail):
- No top-down or 3/4 overhead graphics.
- No mouse-only movement.
- Crafting system should include gathering materials from different types of terrain and plants.
- Crafting system should include craftable appliances which are used in higher-level crafting processes.
- Crafting system should include sim gameplay to grow crops, and should also include pet/mount breeding.
- Player-constructed housing in the main game, and it's can't be just prefab houses, it must be a modular customizable building-construction system. Item storage and appliance placement should be two of the main functions of housing, along with collection display of objects ranging from successfully-courted NPCs through outfits of clothing on mannequins and weapons on display racks to pets and purely decorative/sculptural objects.
- Craftable dye/paint should be usable to customize the colors of walls, clothing, hair, etc.
- PvE combat cannot be based around repeatedly whacking with a weapon, and should not be a modification of an originally pvp-focused type of combat. Combat also should not include guns or FPS perspective. (WoW-style guns are tolerable, though still bad atmospherically). Combat should include diverse magic skills, pet use, or both.
- World marketplace yes! Player shops no!
- No mandatory group activities, nor penalties for soloers.
- One avatar should be able to master all crafting abilities, given enough time.
- I prefer classless character systems, but I'll tolerate classes if their impact is limited to combat, there's a good soloing class, they aren't gender-specific, and they aren't religious within the game world.
- Races should not affect combat or crafting abilities.
- Big plus for an interactive story focused on the player's individual avatar. The avatar doesn't have to be the hero of the world, but their individual journey to climb faction ranks, climb the crafting tech tree, court NPCs, etc should be the heart of their story.
- No XP loss on death would be nice.
- Either PvP does not take place in the main game world, there is a non-PvP server, or the game has no PvP outside of minigames.
[quote] Originally posted by Enbysra
Originally posted by sunandshadow Being the thread is based on details you might want to see in an MMORPG, that are not common and not of commonly debatable features, I have chosen to reply by focusing on the following 2 points.
Originally posted by Enbysra Originally posted by sunandshadow - successfully-courted NPCs . This point in particular I have chosen as I have not personally seen anything close to this, with the exception perhaps in the Fable series. So if you could expand and explain how courtship would work, it would be appreciated.
Originally posted by sunandshadow - successfully-courted NPCs .
The Harvest Moon series is the most relevant example of courting NPCs, though Terraria has a non-romantic function where NPCs come to live in your house. The Sims series and dating sims in general also have varieties of character courtship. Personally I start with the concept of faction reputation, and I consider NPC courtship to be achieving max reputation with that 1-person faction.
Faction reputation is commonly earned by performing quests, navigating dialogue puzzles, or donating requested items. Sometimes donating labor is also an option. These all work just as well for a faction of 1 NPC as they do for an organization. Faction reputation rewards commonly include merchant discounts, gifted items, free heals or buffs, unique recipes, hidden/restricted quests, and the ability to wear a faction uniform or symbol above your name. Courtable NPCs could offer all except these last two, and instead of those a 'won' NPC (or a copy of them) could come live at your house. This is comparable to an MMO such as Wizard 101 where your owned pets live at your house, wandering around and making the place seem less empty.
Originally posted by Enbysra Originally posted by sunandshadow - One avatar should be able to master all crafting abilities, given enough time. This point in particular I have chosen against my own stated intentions of this thread, not because it is not common. The reason I have brought this point to attention is, why would you want 1 character to be able to do everything? Regardless of if it is crafting, harvesting, combat, or what have you? I will note right now however, I am completely and firmly opposed to this as being a possibility. But I would still like to know why this would be a point of interest to you.
Originally posted by sunandshadow - One avatar should be able to master all crafting abilities, given enough time.
I personally like to roleplay as a "Robinson Crusoe" or "renaissance man/woman". In real life I do almost every art and craft you can think of; my wish fulfillment fantasy is to have the time and resources to become a master at all of them. To me it is unrealistic that, in a fantasy world where I am apparently immortal and have all the time in the world, I am arbitrarily limited to one or two types of crafting. In addition to that, I hate MMOs where you are expected to create more than one avatar. It destroys my sense of immersion when I'm not sure whether _I_ am this yellow-haired archer alchemist or that brunette swordfighter blacksmith.
Plus, I don't like replaying games. I am a completist and I love to do 100% of quests and fond 100% of recipes, unlock 100% of the crafting tech tree; I want to do this on my ONLY character, since I'm not interested in making a second one. And finally, as you could probably tell by my list, I play solo about 85% of the time I am in an MMO. Limiting crafting professions per character is usually a choice made by developers who want to force players into interacting. I don't want to interact with other players that way. I want to be proud of myself for accomplishing things all by myself. I'm not interested in being forced into buying things from other players, nor do I particularly want to sell to them or try to build up a reputation as a craftsperson or any of that crap; I really enjoy crafting 1-of-a-kind things for myself.
I stop desire sandbox & complex long time ago
I WANT Dynamic Warfare based in faction mixed with RTS/MMO like people elect king and king want build Advanced outpost to protect important miner , players go build and defend against other realm / faction
But not heavy grind to build , craft , destroy , advance and lose territory(yes civilization online i like you concept but XLcash.... fear)
Originally posted by DMKano
Being able to procreate with other players OR NPCs and have a virtual family.
Being able to procreate with other players OR NPCs and have a virtual family.
Kano you perv! Not content with cybersex you want to get them pregnant too?
Originally posted by Enbysra And ah, well yeah, I did use uncommon wording perhaps. "Crafting" would be 1 aspect of what I called "Resource, Product and Service Tradeskills". "Resources" would apply to various methods of acquiring materials used for crafting and other options. "Products" would apply to any creations made through various "Crafting" methods. "Services" would apply to any act resulting in some intended outcome, possibly using resources, but not physically producing anything usable item-wise. All such general categories would fall under "Tradeskills", in the same usage as one would state, "a jack of all trades, but master of none." Although tradeskills are generally considered "Non-Combat", there are many tradeskills that are attached to combat-class skill sets for various reasons.
(Also, this centering of the crafting system around the house/estate is another reason it is a pain to have more than one avatar, unless all of a player's avatars share the same property. Even then, it would be better to treat the player as the owner or patron deity of a tribe than as one avatar alternating with another. Strange to have two or more people living on the same property, yet they never see each other, much less have a conversation...)
I do quite dislike attaching tradeskills to combat classes or skills - just felt the need to say that.
A Tale In The Desert, I did see some information on it, crafting included. I may actually have to look into that more then. The base concept I was looking at, with some of the crafting at least, was in the direction Vanguard took. That is not to say anything at all is carved in stone. And that is not to say that this thread is only about my own information collecting either. I do believe this thread can go well beyond just my own agendas.
Crafting in ATitD works like this: walking around, you can collect sand, mud, wood, grass, and slate. If you have two slate you can make the blade for a wood plane, and if you have some wood you can put the plane together. Then you run more wood through the plane to get planks. With planks you can make a brick frame. Having collected some grass, you can drop it, wait for it to dry into straw, then pick it up again. now with your straw, mud, and sand you can make basic bricks. Then with your bricks and planks you can build a basic storage chest. Meanwhile you can also get flax seeds. You grow flax by planting it, tending its various needs for about 5 minutes, then collecting the grown flax plus some seeds. You can also collect plant thorns, and with these and your planks and such, you can build a flax comb. After rotting your flax in some water you can separate it in the comb into straw and fabric fibers. You can build a spinning wheel thing (distaff) and spin the fibers into thread, twine, or rope. With twine you can string a loom and weave thread into cloth. Etc, etc.
Crafting process get more varied as you go up the tech tree. Mining is a minigame. Making two ores into an alloy is a different minigame. Hammering metal into a tool is a sort of 3D modeling simulation within the game. Growing papyrus by sowing seeds into the Nile is an adventure. For some of the art tests you have to build a sculpture and a tile mosaic and get other players to upvote them. You can collect herbs to exchange for getting a tattoo. You can find wild scarab beetles and breed them, then immortalize a particularly pretty one as a statue for other beetle-fanciers to judge. (I always hoped they would add an option to ride a beetle as a mount, but nope.) You can also crossbreed lilies. ATiTD does have many problems, but it has the single best crafting system I've seen in an MMO.
(Ah, that "NPC copy" thing might work)
-- If what you state here is true, and if I ever actually finish my own intended MMORPG as I intend to, you will likely be driven to drink in spades. Off the bat, there will be no "replaying" the game, depending what skills you take and what area you decide to travel to. "100% of quests" might be impossible, if what I envision works, with the exception of years if not decades to truly do everything quest-wise. Furthermore, doing 100% of all quests would by necessity mean playing every skill set possible... which I would think will be impossible in a single lifetime. The foundational Strategy Categories' System it is built on currently consists of only over 5.4 million (down from a month ago which sat at over 16 million) potential strategy categories, not including skills within each category... Quests are actually derived from that system. You should join AA and Anger Management classes now to prepare yourself It would be possible to gain all skills on one character based on intended design... however, such would be by losing points from one skill set and building them into another skill set. Hardly something I would personally suggest. I would actually like to even go as far as to state, "your 85% of the time soloing career" would be reduced dramatically, and by your own choice. You would possibly be able to make specifically a crafting character... it is an intended objective, but still may need more than one character to do that. But that would certainly not be the character that goes out conquering. Ah, so we begin with crafting and then end on crafting.
But it's quite appropriate to start and end on crafting, since crafting is at the heart of my relationship with MMOs. You mention 'going out to conquer' being impossible on a non-craftsman character... I am left wondering why anyone would hunt monsters if they weren't trying to collect crafting ingredients! Lol.
Originally posted by Enbysra
"Some games, such as TSW, have excellent cypher quests, but none seem to have quests without cyphers, forcing the player to figure it on his own." -- More information / Detail as to what you more exactly mean here would be appreciated. "hints", such as ghostly-hued renditions of the script superimposed in the ui." -- More information / Detail as to what you more exactly mean here would be appreciated.
"Some games, such as TSW, have excellent cypher quests, but none seem to have quests without cyphers, forcing the player to figure it on his own." -- More information / Detail as to what you more exactly mean here would be appreciated.
"hints", such as ghostly-hued renditions of the script superimposed in the ui." -- More information / Detail as to what you more exactly mean here would be appreciated.
One particular cypher mission in TSW is "hell and bach". You can google it if you don't readily know the details, but basically you're given most of the cypher, symbolic representation of phonetics, in a journal, and you need to correctly touch runes in a sequence to advance to the next tier. Some Earth languages like ancient egyptian hieroglyphics were historically decrypted with discovered artifacts, like the Rosetta Stone, which presented the same proclamation in three languages, so, using this tool, one could compare similar symbols and extrapolate the story or data in any subsequent written message.
Some languages, like ancient Hittite or symbolized communication of the Indus river valley had no such convenient cypher. Decrypting the messages required trial and error via numerous methods, eventually leading to revelations of base words, like food, water, salt, horse, fish, human, man, war, king, give, land, deity, river, tomb.
If you're not making the player do it himself, the "true translation" may appear in a user's ui, above or about the lettering or symbols, in blue, faintly glowing words, as if their character has gleaned some or most of the message, based on his applicable skill. Some words might be pink, as approximates, if the skill is not so high, which might lead to educated guesses or completely mistaken understandings, close enough that it reveals an illustration, but sets of a trap or series of other unfortunate encounters, were he to act upon the message.
edit: Additionally, a step farther, the literal translations might be set to a form of prose with dreadful depictions of something glorious or flowery depictions of something awful. "Ring around the rosy" is a children's rhyme, but not everyone's aware it's reference to the bubonic plague, evidence of the innate need in children for "play", even in the harshest of circumstance. Therefore, even if you hand correct transliterations to players, there's a following challenge to understand what exactly the message means, and it might be a horrible plague death from a curse (oh Hakkar, and your corrupted blood, you're the truest troll god).
I have 2 things kind of expanding on previous ideas, and 1 of my own.
I've always though an age/level relation was a good idea. What I mean is that lets say when you start not only do you start in a low level area killing easy stuff, but you are in a low level area killing easy stuff because you are a child. To me it doesn't make sense that somehow you made it to adulthood in a world that has things trying to kill you around every bend without having ever figured out how to hit a training dummy. Lets say the game has a 100 level system (as an example) So for the first 10 levels you are a kid (graphically you look basically 13. You've come of age, and it's time to start your training. Then once you reach level 10 you turn into a 20 year old. Still wet behind your ears, but be getting stronger and stronger. From that point on I think every let's say 5 levels you age a year. that would make you max level, and 38 years old. Not too old to have lost strength (look at Randy Couture from UFC as an example of aged warriors) Not so old that you have lost all your looks (I know...people are vain) The way it would work I think is during character creation you see the child, and the 38 year old like you see a Human while creating a worgen on WoW. You change a feature on one it changes the feature on the other. Then you would have to have a system that generated a progressive morph from the child to the adult as you were leveling. Facial hair, and all that wouldn't matter because you could add it as you level at a barber shop or whatever. maybe make the facial hair options thin when you are younger, and get thicker as you age. (You could preview yourself with facial hair as the older person so you would know your options, but you wouldn't be forced to stay with those options later)
The levels, and ages outlined are just general ideas, and obviously changeable based on designer preference. You could also have spells that make you look a different age if you really can't stand looking old.
TL:DR Age progression based on level.
Edit: Forgot to mention that the idea is partially because I liked the first Fable so much, but a bit expanded.
I think it would be great if there were only a certain amount of courtable NPCs available at any given time, and if someone else woos the one you're after before you do you have to move on. Will you play the field, or focus on one? lol I think the courtable NPCs should be randomly generated using the character creator so you have some ugly ones, and some attractive ones, but it's on random chance.
This is an idea I've been kicking around for awhile. What's a new way to make fans super loyal, and want to promote your game? Money! Now here me out lol....Let's say you make a game with a subscription of $15 a month. If someone refers another player they get $1 off a month for that player. Lets say the second player recruits someone.....then they get $1 off of there sub, and the person that referred them gets .50 off. I would go 3 levels with it....$1 off for first level referral $.50 off for second level referral, and $.25 off for 3rd level. If the original player get's 16 referrals not only is he no longer having to pay a sub, but he got you 16 people so he's getting a dollar kickback. Basically set it up like a pyramid scheme is set up, but it isn't a scheme because they are actually receiving a service if they do have to pay the $15 because they can't find anyone to refer, or just don't want to refer people. If someone didn't pay one month you don't get the discount for them, but the people below are still yours so instead of 1.75 max off that line of players you get .75, and won't get more unless that player decides to rejoin.
This is a very abstract idea, but I'm pretty sure that you could get a LOT of players like this. I don't think there should be a max on how many people you refer because you are getting business for the company.
Originally posted by grimal I, for one, would love to see item drops for mobs to be mob appropriate. So, if I have a mob attacking me with a sword and shield wearing leather armor, if I kill it, I'd like to see those items in the drop. If I kill something that has cool looking armor, I want to be able to wear that armor.
EQ used to do this. When fighting a boss or raid mob, it might have the weapon drop you want, but it would be using it on you. I used to dress all the Coldain in extra PoG breastplates so no one was tempted to put them on the market. I dunno if they still have that functionality.
Originally posted by Enbysra Only thing is, using ArcheAge as an example... If ArcheAge would have limited housing to 1 house and 1 farm (on land or aquatic) per account or per server, it would have already been received better than what can only be described as a sh^t storm, due to the "you have have as much land as you can grab" that it does have (or at least did, as I left shortly after Auroria expansion).
Originally posted by EnbysraWhereas I would intend on having complex or in-depth crafting, of which also required player skill, the part of ATitD's crafting you deliver here sounds more tiresome than what a playerbase could be expected to tolerate. It is also possible you are not quite sales pitching them right. The part of ATitD's crafting that I read about, which seemed like an interesting concept that possibly would need some revision, was such as cutting diamonds and other jewels. This may have also included shaping other items as well. It has been at least a few months since I read anything of ATitD. It acted as a mini-game, such that you would actually have to maneuver the materials you were working with, and somehow utilize the tools in order to craft the item. In the jewel crafting set of images, it seemed to show how each cut was made, and that a particular end result may be more valuable than others. I am not sure if this was entirely skill based, falling on actual player skill, or if it was just a series of choices you could choose from. This is because it also seemed like you could choose from a pictorial selection of possible cuts that could be made, simply by clicking on the image you wanted.
As for the jewel-cutting, it is pull-your-hair-out frustrating, actually. The problem is that the jewels are almost always flawed, and you can't detect if there's a flaw in the middle before you start cutting. But the way it works is, there is a catalogue of "goal" jewels in the cutting bench - that's the pictorial selection you mention. You also have 3 types of cut - shave a layer off one side of the cube, shave an angle off one side of the cube, or shave a corner off the cube. You have to do 16 or 20 such cuts to get a goal gem. The blacksmithing is way more fine-grained; the type of metal determines how many times it will tolerate being hit, and you might put 200 hits into a shovel blade. Metal tools have a quality up to 9999 if I remember correctly; best I ever got was about 8000. The real thing that makes blacksmithing more fun, though, is that if you really screw up you just get back the lump of metal you started with, whereas with the jewel-cutting you're destroying expensive jewels. It's no fun to try learning a new minigame when the cost of failure is so high.
Originally posted by EnbysraDifferent players seeing different things... I noticed this in WoW questlines too. The only time different players should see different things, I am thinking, is when they actually have different skills. Perhaps such skills would include being able to see the spiritual world, thus allowing one character to see ghosts, while those without that skill would not see them. Another possibility in this direction would involve "higher dimensional attunement" of sorts, whereas a character that is attuned to higher dimensions may see things that otherwise would not be seen, or some additional property of what is already seen.
Originally posted by EnbysraI am kinda shooting for high fantasy. It will include Sci-Fi, Horror, Industrial, Steampunk, High Fantasy, Ancient Times, Religious-based, Mystical, Post-Apocalyptic, and a number of other themes. I know that sounds like an awful mess of things to slap together, and a failure waiting to happen, but I am quite certain implementation is everything to decide whether or not that would be the case. Whereas there may certainly be comical or humorous parts, I am thinking the humor will more likely be of a "dark humor nature." I am looking at complex and-or in-depth being in the intended end result of the game, which is only to be expected based on the foundational strategy categories system it is built from. Prohibitive space would not really be an issue, weight limits however might be another story.
Originally posted by EnbysraHunting monsters for crafting ingredients is both, only one aspect of how to acquire raw materials for various purposes, and only one aspect of why to hunt monsters. The methods of raw material collecting and the reasons to hunt monsters, go well beyond just one.
Originally posted by Enbysra
Oh my, yeah, you probably would not like what I am planning then... "happy little fantasy world" is not exactly close to how I would describe it. I am definitely looking to do more of a "serious/realistic -looking, dark and foreboding" type. Well, then again, the "magitech" part I may just use to suck you in too. Muahahahaha. But true evil is part of the fun, as there is almost (hehe) nothing quite as sinister as a Necromancer and that visage of death and dread, and the raising of their undead (which will potentially be able to attack the Necromancer if they are not careful). Wait a minute... so you do not mind the darker aspects, so long as they appear as if they are kinda tucked away from the "everyday-type world of civilization"?
Oh my, yeah, you probably would not like what I am planning then... "happy little fantasy world" is not exactly close to how I would describe it. I am definitely looking to do more of a "serious/realistic -looking, dark and foreboding" type. Well, then again, the "magitech" part I may just use to suck you in too. Muahahahaha. But true evil is part of the fun, as there is almost (hehe) nothing quite as sinister as a Necromancer and that visage of death and dread, and the raising of their undead (which will potentially be able to attack the Necromancer if they are not careful).
Wait a minute... so you do not mind the darker aspects, so long as they appear as if they are kinda tucked away from the "everyday-type world of civilization"?
Not quite - I dislike horror as a genre because its 'darker aspects' are often too dark, and I don't want to experience foreboding or intimidation, fear or disgust. I would really rather not encounter cannibal cults, evil deities and demons, sadistic torturers, parasites, undead, or people who kill on a whim because they are so out of touch with their hearts that they think others' lives are meaningless. In general I prefer to fight non-humanoid opponents (i.e. monsters), but if there must be humanoid opponents for some reason then pirates and enemy soldiers and gang members are more my speed. I love some humorously incompetent supervillains too.
Sandbox that's not open world PvP. I'd like to see a sandbox that doesn't pit players against each other, but instead tries to unite its playerbase to common goals. Deep crafting skills, that allow dedicated players to really create something unique and not everyone the same iron sword.
Yes some of these features have been mentioned by SOE or whatever that company is called now. I'm hoping though more companies will realise that sandbox is not equal to PvP.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
No quests or levels
I am always thinking of ways to allow players to kill anything by removing the very linear progression systems.
Mobs would not be level related but SKILL related.So you might only be level 5 and a mob level 15.What separates the two is not so much level but their skill set.
The MOBS defense would be randomly changing among the Elements.SO if your using a Water based Sword and he is defending versus Water you would actually heal him instead of damage.The amounts would be determined by the elements,so if a dead on bad element choice you would heal him for 100%,if say ICE versus Fire 50% and if Water versus Fire you have a high % chance to hit.
Now mobs would have a small % that is always relevant ,example always has 10% Water DMG and 10% Fire resistance.The point is that through paying attention,knowing when to attack and when to defend you could defeat a mob that is higher level than you.
There would of course be a limit to how high you could win a BOSS fight,example a level 50 Boss might have a permanent set of 50% to all elements meaning he is likely to kill you no matter what but never impossible because he might only need 1 hit to kill you but if you time it right attacking and defending you could have a 50% chance to avoid every time ,using the 50% example.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.