I really like the idea of a game finally giving crafters some respect. However if it is a PVP full loot I am sorry you just lost me. Maybe you could have items wear out and break. I would like to know how you can keep the game from becoming a gankfest.
I really enjoyed crafting in SWG and would like to do something like that again but I really do not care for full loot PVP.
They said that this game will not be for everyone, will be a niche, so yea, i'm sorry for you but probably will not be your cup of tea.
Shadow Bane and SWG are having a baby! This is looking very interesting! Great group of Dev's and Designers on this team - I wish them the very best of luck and much success!
"That’s probably about all I should say about it for now, except, remember: the system was designed to create reasons to seek out and interact with other players.
Or, you know, kill them and take their stuff. That works, too."
I'm sorry but this sounds like forced pvp and that is a big no in my book.
With that said it's great to see Raph Koster back in action good luck with the project.
Given the people working on it, at the very least we can say it won't be a typical theme park. Looking forward to seeing this game develop. And cheers to Raph for stepping into the mmo development scene again. I will definitely support that.
Sounds awesome. One thing I would ask though is to be able to customise the appearance of the item while crafting it... nothing worse than crafting an awesome item (stat-wise) only to have it look awful (IMO).
Not sure how technically possible it is, but ideally I'd like to see a sort of component visual system... so you have a blade, guard and handle (for a sword), and you can pick the look of each of them individually (from designs you know), and possibly even scale them a bit. Also being able to add trinkets, for example a gem in the guard, runes on the blade, or a strip of cloth hanging from the handle.
Reading this article makes me excited to see how this game develops. Then visiting their forums and I see it's jam packed with "carebear this and carebear that, this game is no place for you filthy scum. This game is all about killing and looting other players!" Nowhere do the devs state this game is going to be 100% gankville PvP, but if anyone even mentions a game mechanic besides PvP there's a flood of immature "gtfo carebear" type posts.
I really hope the devs put the brakes on that line of thinking in the community. The artwork, the lore, some of the ideals they've mentioned, and the crafting are very appealing so far. Even if the game will have a PvP focus there's no reason for such a toxic community full of posts that sound like people can't wait to start griefing anyone they can.
I find it hard to imagine that is what the devs are hoping becomes of Crowfall.
Oh gawd! First off, someone should really put together a presentation on how to fail at pitching a game. Unless they're doing a founders program, then good one.
Why would someone ever try to attribute any system in their upcoming game to something as iconic as SWG? Is there any better way to be criticized incessantly during your development? I think not.
Well considering they've got people who actually built SWG and JTL, they have a better chance at succeeding in capturing it's spirit, than many others.They certainly have my attention.
For the record, Blixtev was primarily responsible for the massive crafting nerf/revamp that was part of the SWG-CU. How do we know? Because he said so himself, way back when.
What is troubling about that was the fact that at the time, Blixtev himself rationalized it because he thought thing were "too complicated", which they were not. The crafting abilities of several professions were greatly altered/damaged by this.
So while talking about the goodness of the SWG crafting system, also remember who was responsible for wrecking it, too.
Cu2 (as I like to call it) and later the NGE were part of a core focus at SOE as well as LA, to dumb down SWG to require less reading and provide more instant gratification, all changes were rationalized in this manner, IE cutting away needless bloat.
Considering that, I have to ask was that his own rationalization or simply a justification offered to justify said changes? that is the real question there.
As for Crowfall, it's a new game as well as studio, they shouldn't have to carry SOE's baggage into it with them.
I do not say you are wrong, but, you don't get to invoke the goodness that was the SWG crafting system on one hand citing "the guy in charge of crafting" for a while, and then not have to accept that Blixtev aka "Toilet Boy" himself went a long way to trashing that very system (which he did by his own admission.)
So, as far as using reputation as a way to build interest goes, you get the bad along with the good. And it is fair to do so (baggage or not.)
I remain skeptical....so many games have promised the Sun over the last 6-8 years and all of them have delivered a paper bag full of crap, labelled lite me.
I like what I read and hear...but at this point I refuse to get hyped, jsut too many failed promises from so many different development teams, mmo gaming has been terrible for years.
considering the games most of the developers worked on, I would assume a combination of inventory loot and durability damaged items you have equipped will be what they're shooting for.
The very concept that players can and will lose their items at some point is required, otherwise the game loop breaks. It is a very controversial topic for those who don’t like the potential of losing their items, and we understand that. But sometimes you have to embrace ideas that may not be popular at first glance, because they open up amazing areas of gameplay that are otherwise not accessible.
On Crowfall, we’re willing to take some of these risks, because we know that the payoff will be worth the effort.
You can achieve this goal only of the game is a FULL LOOT sandbox, if gear is not lost, full loted and broken, there is no crafting class profession at all because nobody need gear anymore if gear is infinite like in standard themepark mmo.
Finally someone learn the lesson here and have the courage to let crafters to be a main class completely unrelated to pvp but connected trough full loot where you need constant forniture of gear and you have to rely on your guild crafters or buy from other players around the world.
Thanks for this amazing update, now tell me about combat, the last part i really care.
The game economy would thrive even more if the victor could pick one equipped item to loot, The loser keep one random item that's left, and the rest of the loser's equipped items and gold were gone when he respawned.
Crafter as a primary class = interaction with other players. You can't do it alone.
Strategic Conquest = Domination and making other players quit the game. There can only be one winner/side/nation.
It should be interesting to see how they plan to balance the two sides. Crafters want more clients, Conquerors want fewer opponents.
i agree and mostly hate combat even for pvp & pve! play wizard101 ok for me because good spell but shadow magic spell seem overpowered only win pvp & pve easy being immunity!
I Like Wizard101 Fun & Easy because really becoming Immunity!
ONE thing hate about shadow magic!
1. shadow shrike (unfair ice pvp because can't use main gear and only better option to use immunity gear!
2. Malistaire Gear in Castle Darkmoor (unfair for dark nova pvp strategy because shadow magic shield)
3. Shadow Enhanced Spell (Ok Spell but Storm Seem to much overpower) Death/Myth/Ice more Better Luck with there spell clued Life but won't get AOE because I don't think won't going get it because heal to much never hardly ever attack unless in 1v1 at all why would they need aoe?
--------------------
I Like Pirate101 Ok Game but very boring (haven't been new update) already sick playing wizard101 because storm many storm so, made storm wizard too so, people complain more on storm wizard so, complain more so, don't have defense class help them to protection thereself?
------------------
I Like Game (talent not Overpowered) like "FREE REALMS" if was game maker be same thing more like free realms but differently! however
Oh gawd! First off, someone should really put together a presentation on how to fail at pitching a game. Unless they're doing a founders program, then good one.
Why would someone ever try to attribute any system in their upcoming game to something as iconic as SWG? Is there any better way to be criticized incessantly during your development? I think not.
Well considering they've got people who actually built SWG and JTL, they have a better chance at succeeding in capturing it's spirit, than many others.They certainly have my attention.
For the record, Blixtev was primarily responsible for the massive crafting nerf/revamp that was part of the SWG-CU. How do we know? Because he said so himself, way back when.
What is troubling about that was the fact that at the time, Blixtev himself rationalized it because he thought thing were "too complicated", which they were not. The crafting abilities of several professions were greatly altered/damaged by this.
So while talking about the goodness of the SWG crafting system, also remember who was responsible for wrecking it, too.
Cu2 (as I like to call it) and later the NGE were part of a core focus at SOE as well as LA, to dumb down SWG to require less reading and provide more instant gratification, all changes were rationalized in this manner, IE cutting away needless bloat.
Considering that, I have to ask was that his own rationalization or simply a justification offered to justify said changes? that is the real question there.
As for Crowfall, it's a new game as well as studio, they shouldn't have to carry SOE's baggage into it with them.
I do not say you are wrong, but, you don't get to invoke the goodness that was the SWG crafting system on one hand citing "the guy in charge of crafting" for a while, and then not have to accept that Blixtev aka "Toilet Boy" himself went a long way to trashing that very system (which he did by his own admission.)
So, as far as using reputation as a way to build interest goes, you get the bad along with the good. And it is fair to do so (baggage or not.)
Will keep my eye on this but at this point, its nothing.
Good crafting is meaningless without being in a good game and they really didn't say anything about the crafting that makes me jump. A great crafting system can be killed many ways like making some items a royal pain to get, making crafters completely reliant on groups to get materials...vastly limiting bag space and placing crafting materials in those limited bag spaces. And in SWGs case, limiting you 1 character (pre-JTL) while making crafters total gimps in combat forcing you to chose not be able to take part in most of the non-crafting game.
Will wait and see how it develops.
Nailed it. Way, way too early to start cheering. Crafters can still be seriously gimped and made the prey or entirely dependent on "real" classes.
Nah - this is the same argument we had back in SWG's day - all Crafters have to do... is craft. It didn't fit in the economic loop then, and it still won't. You can't have it both ways, specifically for the reasons they mentioned about gear being lost. Without the economic loop - it doesn't work.
Giving crafters the ability to create their wears, and then use them to full advantage, breaks that economic loop. You don't need other players for the mats or recipes or whatever - you can get them yourself.
The thing that SWG had to resolve crafter's fatigue was the skill system. At any point, you could unlearn your skills, and rank up in something else. Now, to be fair - it was a total pain in the ass to try and rank these skills up, and on that note, there could definitely be some room to grow.
But you cannot have a system where a player who specializes in crafting also just happens to be a beast on the battlefield. This is precisely what they were talking about when they said how crafting took a back-seat in MMO's. It's that very mentality that did it - that you can do both. Well... no. If you can suddenly do both, it removes the unique quality of both.
You have to make a choice, because picking an Armorsmith should be just like picking any other class. You aren't a Rogue who just happens to be a Leatherworker. You are either a Rogue... or you are a Leatherworker. If these guys design the actual crafting gameplay well... you'll never not be having fun as a Leatherworker.
I always wonder why we see the same systems over and over it is because everyone draws their experience form only a couple areas.Square Enix has imo ALWAYS been more creative than anyone else.
We always hear the same old,we need to make players rely on others or the system does not work...WRONG..FFXI is proof,you will never see a more struggle and needed crafting system than was in FFXI.If you make the chore of finding the mats and attaining hem really tough,then make the independent parts of a craft cumbersome it will create a massive market.
It also does something others games have over looked,the new player.I will use a perfect example from FFXI.First of all in FFXI you could craft ANY profession on the SAME player ,alts is the dumbest idea i have ever seen in gaming.
Leather craft.
You had to go out and kill sheep ad hope to get a drop.Then with that drop you needs other items to craft it into leather and those other items might have to be found in another distant city either off the auction house or by travelling there.
Then you have to craft many leather pieces to craft into usable items of gear.Then while crafting your skill would go up slowly over MANY crafts,this all creates a huge need for those leather pieces.
What it did was allow a brand new player to make a living in the game,killing sheep was not that hard,you needed like a level 4-5 player.The lazy players that simply want to craft the items would buy those stacks of leather at crazy high prices in a game where currency is premium.
Then you create the NEED and want by having areas of a game NEED those crafts.An example is a NPC wants a certain crafted item before he will train you with a new skill or if you want to advance your player into a new profession or tier again you need specific crafts.You might need a certain craft to unlock something or to enter a Boss fight,it is never ending what you can do with crafting.
If you create enough depth in your systems example racial stats and abilities,there is again a NEED for crafting.What FFX I did was create a few tiers to craft gear that over came a racial deficiency so it gave players options.
It doesn't stop there,yes MORE designers should have played FFXI through to learn you can do MORE with crafting and game systems.They created several currencies in game one of which was attained by doing and gaining favor with your nation IF the game has nations and imo SHOULD.That currency could buy nation dependent gear "ahaaa more crafting needs".Then you could take those items and make master versions so sort of like 3 or 4 tiers of that same item.
MY long winded point is to point out you can be MORE creative than simply copying the same old same old we saw in EQ and UO or SWG.
On a side note,not sure what he meant by "build a buff" and being able to patent it.
Tons of classes within FFXI were able to buff and i have never seen a better Bastmaster system than in FFXI.There were several flaws within FFXI but imo the best systems i have ever encountered in gaming.
What i saw in these designers ideas is simply alts alts alts and more alts.I also don't like the idea of constantly making the EXACT same crafting throughout a game every 10 levels,it gets real boring and lacks creative.You need to insert NEW crafts not just the next tier up and then the next tier up again,sure it is an EASIER system to design but not better for players that like crafting.
Last point"Drops versus crafting.
This is always going to be a tough area of concern and i don't like ALWAYS needing to kill said BOSS to get a mat for an elite craft either.There are ways around it if the designer is creative.
First of all drops SHOULD ONLY be what that mob is actually using and not some fabricated Mount drop or sword he doesn't even have.You can simply fill in a VOID with crafters so not to remove the excitement of BOSS drops.You do that by creating IN DEPTH combat.Example you might need a Water based weapon to fight Fire based mobs or a Fire based Boss,crafters can create those needed aspects that simple Boss drops do not provide.Perhaps a BOSS drop might have bigger numbers in ONE area but crafted gear can be more versatile.
Yes they can hire me if they need creative designs :P
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Please make this subscription based so we see less cash shops, hackers ect.
Thank you.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
They said that this game will not be for everyone, will be a niche, so yea, i'm sorry for you but probably will not be your cup of tea.
They lost me right here....
"That’s probably about all I should say about it for now, except, remember: the system was designed to create reasons to seek out and interact with other players.
Or, you know, kill them and take their stuff. That works, too."
I'm sorry but this sounds like forced pvp and that is a big no in my book.
With that said it's great to see Raph Koster back in action good luck with the project.
I log into this site regularly, and more often than not my response to these articles are a massive sigh, followed by a "Meh."
Not MMORPGs fault, but really...new release after new release they are a constant hype train that ends up in a fiery ball of flames, rage, and tears.
Why don't developers just SHUT THE %#$ UP and actually do less talking about what their game will do, and actually do it.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Sounds awesome. One thing I would ask though is to be able to customise the appearance of the item while crafting it... nothing worse than crafting an awesome item (stat-wise) only to have it look awful (IMO).
Not sure how technically possible it is, but ideally I'd like to see a sort of component visual system... so you have a blade, guard and handle (for a sword), and you can pick the look of each of them individually (from designs you know), and possibly even scale them a bit. Also being able to add trinkets, for example a gem in the guard, runes on the blade, or a strip of cloth hanging from the handle.
mmhmm,
At this point seeing a game selling itself as a SWG replacement is an instant turn off. Not looking for one anymore.
Smedley called H1z1 the spiritual successor of SWG... we all know how that turned out lol...
Reading this article makes me excited to see how this game develops. Then visiting their forums and I see it's jam packed with "carebear this and carebear that, this game is no place for you filthy scum. This game is all about killing and looting other players!" Nowhere do the devs state this game is going to be 100% gankville PvP, but if anyone even mentions a game mechanic besides PvP there's a flood of immature "gtfo carebear" type posts.
I really hope the devs put the brakes on that line of thinking in the community. The artwork, the lore, some of the ideals they've mentioned, and the crafting are very appealing so far. Even if the game will have a PvP focus there's no reason for such a toxic community full of posts that sound like people can't wait to start griefing anyone they can.
I find it hard to imagine that is what the devs are hoping becomes of Crowfall.
They need to raise money on kicksarter.
I do not say you are wrong, but, you don't get to invoke the goodness that was the SWG crafting system on one hand citing "the guy in charge of crafting" for a while, and then not have to accept that Blixtev aka "Toilet Boy" himself went a long way to trashing that very system (which he did by his own admission.)
So, as far as using reputation as a way to build interest goes, you get the bad along with the good. And it is fair to do so (baggage or not.)
I remain skeptical....so many games have promised the Sun over the last 6-8 years and all of them have delivered a paper bag full of crap, labelled lite me.
I like what I read and hear...but at this point I refuse to get hyped, jsut too many failed promises from so many different development teams, mmo gaming has been terrible for years.
i agree and mostly hate combat even for pvp & pve! play wizard101 ok for me because good spell but shadow magic spell seem overpowered only win pvp & pve easy being immunity!
I Like Wizard101 Fun & Easy because really becoming Immunity!
ONE thing hate about shadow magic!
1. shadow shrike (unfair ice pvp because can't use main gear and only better option to use immunity gear!
2. Malistaire Gear in Castle Darkmoor (unfair for dark nova pvp strategy because shadow magic shield)
3. Shadow Enhanced Spell (Ok Spell but Storm Seem to much overpower) Death/Myth/Ice more Better Luck with there spell clued Life but won't get AOE because I don't think won't going get it because heal to much never hardly ever attack unless in 1v1 at all why would they need aoe?
--------------------
I Like Pirate101 Ok Game but very boring (haven't been new update) already sick playing wizard101 because storm many storm so, made storm wizard too so, people complain more on storm wizard so, complain more so, don't have defense class help them to protection thereself?
------------------
I Like Game (talent not Overpowered) like "FREE REALMS" if was game maker be same thing more like free realms but differently! however
+1
Well said
Nah - this is the same argument we had back in SWG's day - all Crafters have to do... is craft. It didn't fit in the economic loop then, and it still won't. You can't have it both ways, specifically for the reasons they mentioned about gear being lost. Without the economic loop - it doesn't work.
Giving crafters the ability to create their wears, and then use them to full advantage, breaks that economic loop. You don't need other players for the mats or recipes or whatever - you can get them yourself.
The thing that SWG had to resolve crafter's fatigue was the skill system. At any point, you could unlearn your skills, and rank up in something else. Now, to be fair - it was a total pain in the ass to try and rank these skills up, and on that note, there could definitely be some room to grow.
But you cannot have a system where a player who specializes in crafting also just happens to be a beast on the battlefield. This is precisely what they were talking about when they said how crafting took a back-seat in MMO's. It's that very mentality that did it - that you can do both. Well... no. If you can suddenly do both, it removes the unique quality of both.
You have to make a choice, because picking an Armorsmith should be just like picking any other class. You aren't a Rogue who just happens to be a Leatherworker. You are either a Rogue... or you are a Leatherworker. If these guys design the actual crafting gameplay well... you'll never not be having fun as a Leatherworker.
I always wonder why we see the same systems over and over it is because everyone draws their experience form only a couple areas.Square Enix has imo ALWAYS been more creative than anyone else.
We always hear the same old,we need to make players rely on others or the system does not work...WRONG..FFXI is proof,you will never see a more struggle and needed crafting system than was in FFXI.If you make the chore of finding the mats and attaining hem really tough,then make the independent parts of a craft cumbersome it will create a massive market.
It also does something others games have over looked,the new player.I will use a perfect example from FFXI.First of all in FFXI you could craft ANY profession on the SAME player ,alts is the dumbest idea i have ever seen in gaming.
Leather craft.
You had to go out and kill sheep ad hope to get a drop.Then with that drop you needs other items to craft it into leather and those other items might have to be found in another distant city either off the auction house or by travelling there.
Then you have to craft many leather pieces to craft into usable items of gear.Then while crafting your skill would go up slowly over MANY crafts,this all creates a huge need for those leather pieces.
What it did was allow a brand new player to make a living in the game,killing sheep was not that hard,you needed like a level 4-5 player.The lazy players that simply want to craft the items would buy those stacks of leather at crazy high prices in a game where currency is premium.
Then you create the NEED and want by having areas of a game NEED those crafts.An example is a NPC wants a certain crafted item before he will train you with a new skill or if you want to advance your player into a new profession or tier again you need specific crafts.You might need a certain craft to unlock something or to enter a Boss fight,it is never ending what you can do with crafting.
If you create enough depth in your systems example racial stats and abilities,there is again a NEED for crafting.What FFX I did was create a few tiers to craft gear that over came a racial deficiency so it gave players options.
It doesn't stop there,yes MORE designers should have played FFXI through to learn you can do MORE with crafting and game systems.They created several currencies in game one of which was attained by doing and gaining favor with your nation IF the game has nations and imo SHOULD.That currency could buy nation dependent gear "ahaaa more crafting needs".Then you could take those items and make master versions so sort of like 3 or 4 tiers of that same item.
MY long winded point is to point out you can be MORE creative than simply copying the same old same old we saw in EQ and UO or SWG.
On a side note,not sure what he meant by "build a buff" and being able to patent it.
Tons of classes within FFXI were able to buff and i have never seen a better Bastmaster system than in FFXI.There were several flaws within FFXI but imo the best systems i have ever encountered in gaming.
What i saw in these designers ideas is simply alts alts alts and more alts.I also don't like the idea of constantly making the EXACT same crafting throughout a game every 10 levels,it gets real boring and lacks creative.You need to insert NEW crafts not just the next tier up and then the next tier up again,sure it is an EASIER system to design but not better for players that like crafting.
Last point"Drops versus crafting.
This is always going to be a tough area of concern and i don't like ALWAYS needing to kill said BOSS to get a mat for an elite craft either.There are ways around it if the designer is creative.
First of all drops SHOULD ONLY be what that mob is actually using and not some fabricated Mount drop or sword he doesn't even have.You can simply fill in a VOID with crafters so not to remove the excitement of BOSS drops.You do that by creating IN DEPTH combat.Example you might need a Water based weapon to fight Fire based mobs or a Fire based Boss,crafters can create those needed aspects that simple Boss drops do not provide.Perhaps a BOSS drop might have bigger numbers in ONE area but crafted gear can be more versatile.
Yes they can hire me if they need creative designs :P
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Gods, another full loot PvP game? How many games does this small market demand?
Will there be a PvE server option?