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Still one of the best and unique MMOs

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  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Lovelocke
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    A subcription gives you access to everything but the 5 expansions the game has.

    This is definitely not true. There are many things that are store exclusive and can't be obtained in game, and a few more that are only available in game through a grind which makes winning the lottery appear as an easy thing.

    That wouldn't be too bad if it was only cosmetic stuff, but it isn't.

    Even with a subscription, LOTRO is still "pay to win". And that's sad.

    Can you give examples about the pay2win bits? 

    For instance, several items related to optimizing legendary weapons can only be obtained through the store, or behind such ridiculous grinds in game that winning the lottery seems to be an easy thing compared to it and the store becomes once again the only reliable way to get them.

    I call that pay to win when you can't play the game optimally without buying stuff from the store even if you also pay a subscription.

     

    Ok because YOU think something is pay 2 win by no means equals a fact, because it's factually inaccurate to call lotro pay 2 win.  Your post even proved its NOT pay 2 win.  Legendary grind is no worse than any other grind in MMOS.  Any chance you have ever gone after a legendary item in WoW?  Because something is difficult to get doesn't equal ridiculous unless you are one of those give it to me now people.  

     

    Again in this situation what you think and what is actually FACT are two completly different things.  Just for example before I stopped playing I had my 1st age Halberd maxed out, I didn't spend a dime in the shop.  Again lotro is NOT pay 2 win just stop with that garbage.  

  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,092
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by syriinx

    LOTRO certainly has the worst payment model of any AAA game.

     

    Here is an example:

    LOTRO has a lot of content as you level, and games like WoW and EQ2 offer you ways to lock your level so you don't outlevel other content.

    LOTRO also offers this option-at a cost of 6 bucks per character you want to do it on, even as a subscriber.  It even takes away an inventory slot to do so.

     

     

    Good game, shit model.

    No way, the item is account bound, and can be reused...  I certainly can live with that

    BoA until its used, then becomes bound to that character.

    Not entirely true. There are a lot of BOUND items on my toons and I can drop them in the shared storage to transfer them from one toon to the other. There are only a few Account bound items that'll BoA, but those items can be acquired unlimited times.

  • DarkFailDarkFail Member Posts: 66
    Always found the game kinda.... meh.
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by Athisar
    Originally posted by syriinx

    I guess its come down in price, was definitely 595 TP last I played.

     

    Point is: they charge their subscribers for a fairly standard feature, and they didnt even take the time to do it right, making it something you have to equip as opposed to a menu option or even an NPC toggle is poor design.  At least they finally lowered it past the point of the monthly stipend, but its something that a subscriber should never have to use their stipend on in the first place.

    It's definitely 100 now - I bought one last week for 50.

    Not all games offer an experience disabler, and don't forget that once you have this you have it permanently, whether you're subscribing or not.

    It should be a buff or something rather than an equipped item, sure, but that's not an issue with the revenue model.

    Thats why subscribers get 500 tp free each month, to buy stuff like this...   You are making an issue of a non issue here, just so you dont have to admit your example was wrong..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Lovelocke
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Even with a subscription, LOTRO is still "pay to win". And that's sad.

    Can you give examples about the pay2win bits? 

    For instance, several items related to optimizing legendary weapons can only be obtained through the store, or behind such ridiculous grinds in game that winning the lottery seems to be an easy thing compared to it and the store becomes once again the only reliable way to get them.

    I call that pay to win when you can't play the game optimally without buying stuff from the store even if you also pay a subscription.

    Sorry, I have to disagree (which puts me in an odd place, LI grind is maybe THE worst part of LotRO ;) ). Even if your definition of "play the game optimally" has a narrow range, the convenience bonuses you can get from the Store possibly don't affect it I guess. But of course, everyone have their own preferences.

     

    A few posts above, answering to Locke I tried to make a list about the store items from memory, but this time, with a given example I checked ingame to be more precise :) So, what's in the Store for LIs:

    TA items. Not better than the in-game TA drops, which are dropping like candy, and also barterable any time. Don't even know why is it in the store, seems a pointless purchase.

    Legacies. I admit, for a first-timer, during the first level-up these can give some convenience. But at around lvl60 and above, after breaking the first couple of LIs... purchasing Legacies from the Store becomes a pointless- , and more later, towards the level cap becomes a dumb move even. Just ask any higher players, how many Legacy scrolls they have, gathering dust and waiting for a chance to be used :)

    Titles. Available in game. I rarely use them, but I know folks who are switching their damage type on a daily basis, and even they get the scrolls for that from the game... Let's say not that pointless purchase than the previous two, but seriously depends on the given player's playstyle.

    Relics. Like the items, don't really know who's buying this. Anyone can craft relics, you can combine relics, switching relics, etc. It can give some convenience, maybe even spare some time and in-game gold if you purchase a relic pack, but I think it's a pretty dumb move... Relics are easily available in game too.

    Scrolls. Now, that's a bit more interesting. All of these are available in-game (end bosses, bartering, etc.) but I admit some can be a bit grindy. So purchasing a scroll can save a few days - if someone wants to make his/her LI right now without any delay. If not that hasty, scrolls are regular guests at the AH too. But getting them by yourself is not that tough either...

    LI slots. Just convenience, with the purchase you can level up more than 6 LIs at a time. Since the xp is divided among them, having more slots doesn't shorten the leveling time, only a convenience: when you need to visit the Forge master, you can give him more LIs at once, so you need less visits. Also it's just a post-f2p addition, between Moria launch and the f2p switch everyone had the default number of slots...

     

    So, in the end what's in the Store which is "win"? Scrolls can save you some time and lessen the grind, but available in-game too. More LI slots can save some time. Titles, if you need them for your playstyle and don't want to get them in-game. Sorry, I don't see the "win" here, just some added convenience bonuses...

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    LOTR's Raison d'être is no longer winning the game or being the most powerfully geared person in the game, so buying items from the shop is irrelevant, and certainly not a route to 'win' .

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
    There is nothing unique about LOTRO but then again a MMO doesn't need to be unique to be fun. I just wish people would stop throwing around words like 'innovative' and 'unique' to sound more important with their subject lines.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Let's not forget how stunning the game's scenery can look. For a game this old it's impressive. These are taken from a thread on the official forums.

    http://i.imgur.com/MC4WbM5.jpg

    http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af256/Sennedjem/LOTRO2462_zps50148f64.jpg

    http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af256/Sennedjem/668aa9cc-d6ed-4b73-a895-0f3540f52f0a_zps53fd3f5e.png

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10482129_796747117049378_4792300584054422612_o.jpg

    Cool :)  An even cooler (aka 'cold') video from last year:  http://youtu.be/P33aoWulJUY  LotRO under snow.

     

    And from the thread you mentioned, a perfect shot for the arriving end of this 2014:  http://lotro.talonsoffreedom.org/images/ScreenShot01353.jpg  Happy New Year everyone!

    (ok, it's still a couple more hours left, but just in case I'll be offline  image)

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Let's not forget how stunning the game's scenery can look. For a game this old it's impressive. These are taken from a thread on the official forums.

    http://i.imgur.com/MC4WbM5.jpg

    http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af256/Sennedjem/LOTRO2462_zps50148f64.jpg

    http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af256/Sennedjem/668aa9cc-d6ed-4b73-a895-0f3540f52f0a_zps53fd3f5e.png

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10482129_796747117049378_4792300584054422612_o.jpg

    Cool :)  An even cooler (aka 'cold') video from last year:  http://youtu.be/P33aoWulJUY  LotRO under snow.

     

    And from the thread you mentioned, a perfect shot for the arriving end of this 2014:  http://lotro.talonsoffreedom.org/images/ScreenShot01353.jpg  Happy New Year everyone!

    (ok, it's still a couple more hours left, but just in case I'll be offline  image)

    Some nice scenery in that video, the game does snow and ice really well. Though I had to laugh at the character playing in game instruments to the music, it was a bit cheesy.

    That fireworks picture is a good one too. I'm guessing that SweetFX is used to saturate the colours a bit.

  • JaedorJaedor Member UncommonPosts: 1,173

    I think the thing that impressed me the most with LOTRO was how they managed to build a completely viable game using this IP where the player isn't the hero. Also has some of the best environmental art and music in any game today.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    Originally posted by Athisar
     

    Some nice scenery in that video, the game does snow and ice really well. Though I had to laugh at the character playing in game instruments to the music, it was a bit cheesy.

    That fireworks picture is a good one too. I'm guessing that SweetFX is used to saturate the colours a bit.

    I /salute before the effort, when he appears the first time even the hand movement is close to the rhythm of the song.

    Yep, it's a great pic, I saved it for background :) Not bad from an (almost) 8 years old game.

  • CoNk3rCoNk3r Member UncommonPosts: 70
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    I tought most people have forgotten about how good this game actually is for players like me that are into lore and stories...   I think this was the first game that put story so high on their agenda, and set the scene for the newer story based games like ESO, TSW and SWTOR.  And yet still it feels like a unique place..

     

    here is why i keep returning to this game..

    - even after 7 years the graphical art style is still convincing

    - the scenery is still the best in any MMO, traveling the lands has so many beatifull sights

    - despite many storie areas and dungeon being instanced, it really feels like a huge open world, more then any other themepark game

    - mounted combat, best in any MMO

    - big epic battles, being part of mass combat in PvE feels unique

    - skirmishes...  Quick group content..

    - fun du

    *snip-snap*

     

    Have to agree with OP, except for one thing....... it´s the bestest for a reason according to this fella

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by Athisar
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Let's not forget how stunning the game's scenery can look. For a game this old it's impressive. These are taken from a thread on the official forums.

    http://i.imgur.com/MC4WbM5.jpg

    http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af256/Sennedjem/LOTRO2462_zps50148f64.jpg

    http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af256/Sennedjem/668aa9cc-d6ed-4b73-a895-0f3540f52f0a_zps53fd3f5e.png

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10482129_796747117049378_4792300584054422612_o.jpg

    Cool :)  An even cooler (aka 'cold') video from last year:  http://youtu.be/P33aoWulJUY  LotRO under snow.

     

    And from the thread you mentioned, a perfect shot for the arriving end of this 2014:  http://lotro.talonsoffreedom.org/images/ScreenShot01353.jpg  Happy New Year everyone!

    (ok, it's still a couple more hours left, but just in case I'll be offline  image)

    Some nice scenery in that video, the game does snow and ice really well. Though I had to laugh at the character playing in game instruments to the music, it was a bit cheesy.

    That fireworks picture is a good one too. I'm guessing that SweetFX is used to saturate the colours a bit.

     

    But then if you play the game long enough, those cheesy musical annimations fit the game very well...  And tell me, what other game has a music system that actually lets you play your own compositions...

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    Has anyone added up exactly how much TP  or real money someone would have to spend to play this game as a Premium (not VIP) player?  I have up to Rise of Isengard but I think (?) that vanilla LOTRO, MoM and ROI quest chains would still be locked off unless I was a VIP - or is that wrong? Their F2P is so weird and clunky with "adventure packs" and "expansions" I don't even know what I'm entitled to as an owner of Vanilla up to RoI.

    I'd be willing to do a one time "unlock all key expansions and key features" if the price wasn't too high. I get a little priority as a Premium player who subbed several times up to RoI but I still am not thrilled with the idea of quests and areas being gated off to me if I've already bought the game/expansions. Anyone know exactly how that works?

    To be Premium you just have to spend any amount of real money on the game, so 1 month VIP or a starter pack of some sort, or a copy of the physical game. You don't get all quests in all areas prior to the expansions in premium, you get them all with VIP. You can buy the quest packs to unlock the ones not free permanently (I think each region is about 500TP at full price). It'd be better though to buy the Mithril edition since that includes 2,000 TP and four or so quest packs.

    The expansions are the areas from Moria onwards. These aren't included in VIP, but once you buy them you have all their content permanently whether VIP or Premium. The Moria expansion also includes two extra classes.

    The quad pack (all expansions except Helm's Deep) is on offer at the moment for £15 / $20. Helm's Deep Premium Edition is on sale on Steam, for a little more including 2,000 TP, +10 quest slots and a couple of cosmetic things.

     

  • SJStrikersSJStrikers Member UncommonPosts: 34
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    I tought most people have forgotten about how good this game actually is for players like me that are into lore and stories...   I think this was the first game that put story so high on their agenda, and set the scene for the newer story based games like ESO, TSW and SWTOR.  And yet still it feels like a unique place..

     

    here is why i keep returning to this game..

    - even after 7 years the graphical art style is still convincing

    - the scenery is still the best in any MMO, traveling the lands has so many beatifull sights

    - despite many storie areas and dungeon being instanced, it really feels like a huge open world, more then any other themepark game

    - mounted combat, best in any MMO

    - big epic battles, being part of mass combat in PvE feels unique

    - skirmishes...  Quick group content..

    - fun dungeons and raids, very diverse, many of them scaling in level

    - housing, still one of the best systems, part of the sociall system

    - Quests and lore, having a story paralel to the big events in the books, makes you really feel part of the tolkien lore

    - Society, is unbelievable, no other game has so many player organised events

    - the music system, and people performing in the game world

    - all those little fun things implemented in the world, like chicken runs

    - Magic in the Tolkien world feels quite rare compared to other fantasy MMOs, as it should be...

    - Regular content updates, like 3 major updates over the last year..

    - Class diversity, all classes feel and play totally different, with unique mechanics for every class. Adding to the replayabillity

    - so much story and quests, that you need several characters to see and play it all

    - monster play, i love fighting other players this way, it does not break the worlds immersion

     

    yes, its a leveling game, not an endgame game currently, but there are people everywhere, espescially with the new class recently released, level 1 to 50 zones are booming.  And while the lore is not totally true to tolkiens books, i am sure Tolkien himself would have loved to play a character in this game build around his very own world. 

     

    Yet the story is allready in the 3rd book, and progressing towards the probable Mordor Climax, which got me wondering what will happen after that, but then thats another discussion entirely.  So far they they succeeded to make new content feel fresh every time, at allmost every update the game gets a new push into a different direction with new things to experience.

     

    as a game hopper, i really hope that i can allways keep returning to this game and feel like getting home..  Its currently the only MMO that feels closer to a virtuall world then to a game

     

    You sir have inspired me.

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

     

    But then if you play the game long enough, those cheesy musical annimations fit the game very well...  And tell me, what other game has a music system that actually lets you play your own compositions...

    You're being oversensitive :p I like the in game music, I just think the video having the character randomly pull out a harp or a flute from nowhere when the unrelated backing track has one was amusing.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    Originally posted by Athisar
    Originally posted by KaitarBesh

    Has anyone added up exactly how much TP  or real money someone would have to spend to play this game as a Premium (not VIP) player?

    To be Premium you just have to spend any amount of real money on the game, so 1 month VIP or a starter pack of some sort, or a copy of the physical game.

    ......

    I think Kaitar ment a flat total sum :)

    Yep, many folks did that calculation, there are guides with neat, tricky hints, etc.  I too mentioned maybe a year ago in an F2P thread here my buddy, who unlocked the whole game from scratch, as a newcomer, for about 60 bucks (without HD, since he finished the purchases around HD launch, and it was too pricey then... lol. But now, with both HD and the quad-pack is on sale for 20 bucks each, I think it's still possible to do the full unlock within the 60 bucks limit, but now with HD included)

    Turbine themself made such a calculation, that's why there's the 23k TP bundle on the Market, they stated that's enough for unlocking everything. Obviously I wouldn't suggest that to anyone :) why spent 200 bucks if you can get the same for 60 and with some clever planning, using the frequent sales?

    Of course if you don't want to wait, and do a "one time "unlock all key expansions and key features" ", then it's around that number - minus everything you have already, like the two expansions, the character unlocks from your former vip status, etc. Also depends on your current characters, and if you plan to roll more in the future or not. All things included I'd say somewhere around 10k TP you'll need...

    edit: and that sum can be lowered severely by using real money. Buy HD now for 20 bucks, that's a good price, and you can lower the needed TP number by 3k for example.

  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Athisar
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by Athisar

    Let's not forget how stunning the game's scenery can look. For a game this old it's impressive. These are taken from a thread on the official forums.

    http://i.imgur.com/MC4WbM5.jpg

    http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af256/Sennedjem/LOTRO2462_zps50148f64.jpg

    http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af256/Sennedjem/668aa9cc-d6ed-4b73-a895-0f3540f52f0a_zps53fd3f5e.png

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10482129_796747117049378_4792300584054422612_o.jpg

    Cool :)  An even cooler (aka 'cold') video from last year:  http://youtu.be/P33aoWulJUY  LotRO under snow.

     

    And from the thread you mentioned, a perfect shot for the arriving end of this 2014:  http://lotro.talonsoffreedom.org/images/ScreenShot01353.jpg  Happy New Year everyone!

    (ok, it's still a couple more hours left, but just in case I'll be offline  image)

    Some nice scenery in that video, the game does snow and ice really well. Though I had to laugh at the character playing in game instruments to the music, it was a bit cheesy.

    That fireworks picture is a good one too. I'm guessing that SweetFX is used to saturate the colours a bit.

     

    But then if you play the game long enough, those cheesy musical annimations fit the game very well...  And tell me, what other game has a music system that actually lets you play your own compositions...

    Mabinogi and Archeage are two that let you do that.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    There is nothing unique about LOTRO but then again a MMO doesn't need to be unique to be fun. I just wish people would stop throwing around words like 'innovative' and 'unique' to sound more important with their subject lines.

    Innovation is when you do something completely new or when you do something which already exists in a different way. For something to be innovative it doesn't need to be groundbreaking.

    There were quite a few things which LOTRO did when it launched which were new to MMOs. Unique/innovative classes like minstrel, lore master, rune keeper, warden. Significantly improved questing compared to MMOs at the time, it was the only (and still is) game to capture Middle Earth on such a massive scale. Music system was awesome too!

    Not everything has to completely reinvent the wheel to be considered unique/innovative.

    LOTRO can be considered unique as it gives you a unique experience which no other MMO can. How's that for unique?

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    Originally posted by whilan

    [snipped...  And tell me, what other game has a music system that actually lets you play your own compositions...

    Mabinogi and Archeage are two that let you do that.

    Sorry, but nope... like apples and oranges or how's that phrase, and not because those use MML instead of .abc

    (it was already discussed to the bone several times, so just the summarised version)

    In those games the music is part of the core gameplay, like crafting for example. You have to grind it, level it, it gives bonuses, all those crap. ("crap", as in it's far away from the mere fun music-making should be, it's just an additional grind beside the other grinds in the game). Telling a musician "now you can only play x lenght at a time, but if you grind enough, and then grind for sheets and all the other stuff you'll be able to play even double that length in the distant future, chop-chop, onto the grind now!" is just lame :)

     

    While in LotRO the music is above and beyond the gameplay, just in the game for fun. Even the lowest character of any class, right out of the tutorial can play music on a few instruments, and learn all the others for free any time, minstrels are eager to teach you all the instruments you don't know yet. Music doesn't give boosts, bonuses, extra stats, nothing. Its purpose is just the fun, as it should be.

    (to be 100% accurate, there's 1 ingame tie, if you're a minstrel, you get a deed to teach 10 players an instrument to play. Easy deed :)  But that's all.)

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666

    I think the Warden and Minstrel are very unusual. I've not seen anything like them in other games. Even captain, as a DPS warrior, is unusual with all the shouts and things. They've also had to be imaginative with things a bit to make up for the lack of magic in the world outside of the named wizards, but it's done effectively.

    There's certainly room for improvement in the game. I'd very much like to see better kinship integration and updated character models. The UI is improved from before, but it's still non-scalable and uses dated bitmapped graphics. It doesn't seem WB is prepared to invest in the game to improve the engine, even though it'd most probably pull in loads more people.

  • burdock2burdock2 Member UncommonPosts: 420
    Would you say the spike in popularity is also due to the new Hobbit movie, and the timley release of the new update?
  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by burdock2
    Would you say the spike in popularity is also due to the new Hobbit movie, and the timley release of the new update?

    I don't think there's been a big boost since then. Numbers did seem to be up after the Beorning race update, certainly in the lower level regions for obvious reasons. WB certainly didn't promote the game at all, or even mention it.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by Athisar
    Originally posted by burdock2
    Would you say the spike in popularity is also due to the new Hobbit movie, and the timley release of the new update?

    I don't think there's been a big boost since then. Numbers did seem to be up after the Beorning race update, certainly in the lower level regions for obvious reasons. WB certainly didn't promote the game at all, or even mention it.

    Which really worries me, it would be a shame if they ever took the world of Tolkien offline...  We dont want another SWG..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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