People who "yearn for the dungeons of old" must have never ran the real BRD. It was a real nightmare. BRS wasn't a whole lot better, but at least it was divided in two.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop. Subscription = Actual content updates!
Well i understand you point of view OP. I feel the same way when it comes to log in, in the game now. I love the game don't get me wrong on that but it does not look like a mmorpg anymore. It is more like a single player rpg with some multiplayer addon twist to it.
If they keep listening to the bad players that wants everything now and max out each characters in a single month just to brag about been able to maximes there subs and because they are altoholics then it will go downhills. Sure Blizzard got back up to 10 million subs but it was not because of the xpc per say, it was about the fact they promis to go back to there old root. But now that we see that they again listened to the poor kids around the block again, i guess starting in january or february it will start again to go down hill in subs like before. This xpac won't last this time around. That is my prediction.
Originally posted by VassagoMael People who "yearn for the dungeons of old" must have never ran the real BRD. It was a real nightmare. BRS wasn't a whole lot better, but at least it was divided in two.
Original BRD was indeed mythic in scale, but also utterly unplayable for anyone who wasn't "hardcore" and able to give up real life duties and family for several hours... Make that half a day at least if lucky and everything goes smooth.
I've run BRD back then, and I killed the emperor when it was still "vanilla". And I think that today's way BRD is designed is MUCH better than back then.
I sometimes wonder if people posting here are still having a realistic view of life... or if they are all either jobless, or teenagers, or having a ton of gaming time for any other reason. I've seen people post here, straightfaced, that "only playing 3 hours per day is casual". Guess those who still think vanilla dungeons were cool are of the same kind. Wake up call: the very vast majority of people who make the games you play possible, aka who pay for them, are people with full time jobs who can't afford living in a video game, and you are the minority.
Ye i remember those days with fond memories, BRD run or the Attunement run - it wasn't hardcore, but you did need 5 players who could play their classes. I t think however they have taken it too far, a couple hours is too long but felt epic, but 15 -30 mins of aoeing everything is pointless. 45 man runs aka the 5 man runs in TBC wa a nice balance i felt, however blizzard wants that constant drip feed of chemical hits to the brain and runnig with 45 mins without gaining anything is too risky.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Original BRD was indeed mythic in scale, but also utterly unplayable for anyone who wasn't "hardcore" and able to give up real life duties and family for several hours... Make that half a day at least if lucky and everything goes smooth.
I've run BRD back then, and I killed the emperor when it was still "vanilla". And I think that today's way BRD is designed is MUCH better than back then.
I will say that PvE content is better than Vanilla nowadays. However, I wish WoW had expanded it's endgame horizontally rather than vertically. I think they were designing Titan to be less grind, more activities to pursue. WoW has funnelled everyone into either Arena/Raids. Essentially removed crafting and world pvp of any kind... and we are paying Blizz the most $ for any MMO on the market.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
As the OP I thought I'd come back and add my views to what's been posted. Incidentally, my sub ran out and I uninstalled the game and not only do I not miss it, there are a whole load of other games out there more deserving of my time and money (in my opinion).
Blizz originally released a full-priced game 10 years ago that had lots of classes, professions, two whole land-masses of content, thousands of quests and a fair bit to do. Each expansion, for the same price, seems to give us less to do and is designed in such a way that it probably takes thema lot less effort to make it but the repetitive nature is supposed to keep us happy.
The Garrisons, 6 weeks in, should all be maxed and creating an abundance of resources - to go their stuff every day is mindless now. Heroic dungeons don't even better the gear you get from making/salvaging in your Garrison - so what's the point?
Other than your Apexis Crystal daily and your Garrison, seriously, what else is there to do that's new, to justify a monthly sub - other than work towards raiding? I thought Blizzard were creating expacs that gave people options if they didn't like raiding. So what are they now?
For a full-priced game, we got a handful of small zones where there is nothing to do in them at level 100, no new professions, no new races or classes, little else really than other games give you for free, no take a full-priced expac fee and then charge a monthly sub.
I'm glad I'm out as I think that spending more hours on the game would be just wasting time when there are better games on the market now - WoW has shown it's age and Blizzard it's true colours. They want your money for the least effort. The bubble is about to burst on them, which they know and that's why they are making new games again.
I think as soon as you start dissecting a game to identify it's pro's and con's or look for reasons to justify playing it, it's not fun, period.
If it were fun, these things would never enter into your mind. You wouldn't care if it had a sub or a cash shop or was F2P it was fun. Fun is all about the moment. While you are in that moment, everything else stops... you have no recollection of time or anything else outside of that moment, you are fixated on the game. Some people call this the honeymoon period... because for this brief period of time, they were having fun.
The reality is, the OP got his money's worth because he indeed had fun playing it. That's all a game is supposed to do. A roller coaster ride typically doesn't last past 3 minutes... you will travel across the country, spend a fortune getting there, and wait in line for an hour or more, just for 3 minutes of fun. Fun is not endless... you have to find that moment and ride it like a wave until it crashes back at the shore.
"I've seen through WoD and I'm no longer impressed" could have easily been written as "I had a blast riding the wave." The fact that there isn't another wave to ride doesn't negate the one you had been on. Fun is all about the moment. You had that moment. You had fun.
I think as soon as you start dissecting a game to identify it's pro's and con's or look for reasons to justify playing it, it's not fun, period.
If it were fun, these things would never enter into your mind. You wouldn't care if it had a sub or a cash shop or was F2P it was fun. Fun is all about the moment. While you are in that moment, everything else stops... you have no recollection of time or anything else outside of that moment, you are fixated on the game. Some people call this the honeymoon period... because for this brief period of time, they were having fun.
The reality is, the OP got his money's worth because he indeed had fun playing it. That's all a game is supposed to do. A roller coaster ride typically doesn't last past 3 minutes... you will travel across the country, spend a fortune getting there, and wait in line for an hour or more, just for 3 minutes of fun. Fun is not endless... you have to find that moment and ride it like a wave until it crashes back at the shore.
"I've seen through WoD and I'm no longer impressed" could have easily been written as "I had a blast riding the wave." The fact that there isn't another wave to ride doesn't negate the one you had been on. Fun is all about the moment. You had that moment. You had fun.
You're right, I had fun, and for a monthly subscription, I expected to have more fun than I did, but given that there's nothing to do other than Garrison, 1 daily Apexis quest and Raid, it's not for me and I have to admit that I expected more from Blizzard, so now I'm disappointed. There's lots of others too and I suspect that the subs will begin to tail off again and drop even past their lowest previous point.
I think as soon as you start dissecting a game to identify it's pro's and con's or look for reasons to justify playing it, it's not fun, period.
If it were fun, these things would never enter into your mind. You wouldn't care if it had a sub or a cash shop or was F2P it was fun. Fun is all about the moment. While you are in that moment, everything else stops... you have no recollection of time or anything else outside of that moment, you are fixated on the game. Some people call this the honeymoon period... because for this brief period of time, they were having fun.
The reality is, the OP got his money's worth because he indeed had fun playing it. That's all a game is supposed to do. A roller coaster ride typically doesn't last past 3 minutes... you will travel across the country, spend a fortune getting there, and wait in line for an hour or more, just for 3 minutes of fun. Fun is not endless... you have to find that moment and ride it like a wave until it crashes back at the shore.
"I've seen through WoD and I'm no longer impressed" could have easily been written as "I had a blast riding the wave." The fact that there isn't another wave to ride doesn't negate the one you had been on. Fun is all about the moment. You had that moment. You had fun.
You're right, I had fun, and for a monthly subscription, I expected to have more fun than I did, but given that there's nothing to do other than Garrison, 1 daily Apexis quest and Raid, it's not for me and I have to admit that I expected more from Blizzard, so now I'm disappointed. There's lots of others too and I suspect that the subs will begin to tail off again and drop even past their lowest previous point.
And I suspect you have no clue what your talking about and for the next ten years we get to listen to people like you QQ about a video game they "uninstalled" and proclaim "the subs will fall to their lowest point" but of coarse when they surpass 10 MILLION they discredit that number.
Fun fact you know how many VIDEO GAMES I've uninstalled and then went to QQ about them in some random site? Yeah that would be ZERO.
Another fun fact because after reading this I find it hard to believe you ever played WoD and just took a few talking points from their forums. Everyday there are still pages and pages of people looking for groups to do reputation, Crystal , farming to activate specific invasion, plus all the pages and pages of people looking for groups in the raids. Queue times for lfr are under 10 min for dps, queue times for heroics have not gone up but gone down. So again good luck with your "population will go to its lowest point" lol.
I think as soon as you start dissecting a game to identify it's pro's and con's or look for reasons to justify playing it, it's not fun, period.
If it were fun, these things would never enter into your mind. You wouldn't care if it had a sub or a cash shop or was F2P it was fun. Fun is all about the moment. While you are in that moment, everything else stops... you have no recollection of time or anything else outside of that moment, you are fixated on the game. Some people call this the honeymoon period... because for this brief period of time, they were having fun.
The reality is, the OP got his money's worth because he indeed had fun playing it. That's all a game is supposed to do. A roller coaster ride typically doesn't last past 3 minutes... you will travel across the country, spend a fortune getting there, and wait in line for an hour or more, just for 3 minutes of fun. Fun is not endless... you have to find that moment and ride it like a wave until it crashes back at the shore.
"I've seen through WoD and I'm no longer impressed" could have easily been written as "I had a blast riding the wave." The fact that there isn't another wave to ride doesn't negate the one you had been on. Fun is all about the moment. You had that moment. You had fun.
You're right, I had fun, and for a monthly subscription, I expected to have more fun than I did, but given that there's nothing to do other than Garrison, 1 daily Apexis quest and Raid, it's not for me and I have to admit that I expected more from Blizzard, so now I'm disappointed. There's lots of others too and I suspect that the subs will begin to tail off again and drop even past their lowest previous point.
I expect to win a million dollars... hasn't happened yet, but I keep expecting it. That isn't the same thing as fun. Fun isn't about expectations... it's a moment. Children have fun because they don't expect anything, they just let it happen, naturally. You go into a game expecting anything and you will always be disappointed. That's the problem with websites like these... they dissect everything into a score card and you start playing games based on that score card. Right there you've already removed the "fun" of the experience. It's like reading the end of a book before starting the story. Knowing what is to come is a deterrent to fun. People always have fond memories of their old games... funny thing is, when they played them, they didn't have a 1000 dissertations on them as to why they were and were not fun. You just played them and rode the wave. Unless you are willing to hop on that wave, you will never have any fun.
And, whether you are the only person on the planet playing the game of one of billions... when you are having fun, you don't notice such things. These are things you notice when you are no longer having fun.
I think as soon as you start dissecting a game to identify it's pro's and con's or look for reasons to justify playing it, it's not fun, period.
If it were fun, these things would never enter into your mind. You wouldn't care if it had a sub or a cash shop or was F2P it was fun. Fun is all about the moment. While you are in that moment, everything else stops... you have no recollection of time or anything else outside of that moment, you are fixated on the game. Some people call this the honeymoon period... because for this brief period of time, they were having fun.
The reality is, the OP got his money's worth because he indeed had fun playing it. That's all a game is supposed to do. A roller coaster ride typically doesn't last past 3 minutes... you will travel across the country, spend a fortune getting there, and wait in line for an hour or more, just for 3 minutes of fun. Fun is not endless... you have to find that moment and ride it like a wave until it crashes back at the shore.
"I've seen through WoD and I'm no longer impressed" could have easily been written as "I had a blast riding the wave." The fact that there isn't another wave to ride doesn't negate the one you had been on. Fun is all about the moment. You had that moment. You had fun.
You're right, I had fun, and for a monthly subscription, I expected to have more fun than I did, but given that there's nothing to do other than Garrison, 1 daily Apexis quest and Raid, it's not for me and I have to admit that I expected more from Blizzard, so now I'm disappointed. There's lots of others too and I suspect that the subs will begin to tail off again and drop even past their lowest previous point.
I expect to win a million dollars... hasn't happened yet, but I keep expecting it. That isn't the same thing as fun. Fun isn't about expectations... it's a moment. Children have fun because they don't expect anything, they just let it happen, naturally. You go into a game expecting anything and you will always be disappointed. That's the problem with websites like these... they dissect everything into a score card and you start playing games based on that score card. Right there you've already removed the "fun" of the experience. It's like reading the end of a book before starting the story. Knowing what is to come is a deterrent to fun. People always have fond memories of their old games... funny thing is, when they played them, they didn't have a 1000 dissertations on them as to why they were and were not fun. You just played them and rode the wave. Unless you are willing to hop on that wave, you will never have any fun.
And, whether you are the only person on the planet playing the game of one of billions... when you are having fun, you don't notice such things. These are things you notice when you are no longer having fun.
I couldn't agree more - no longer having fun paying a monthly sub for no longer having fun, so I noticed those things. Spot on there.
I've played all of WoW expansions and enjoyed them to a greater or lesser degree. I started to enjoy WoD. Now, I've upgraded the majority of my Garrison to level 3, except for the Menagerie and fishing shack (I don't really do either). I feel almost compelled to log in every day and do the Garrison tasks to get my resources and the like. I do the Apexis Crystal task and I play a couple of dungeons, which I must admit feel like they are very short compared to the dungeons of old that we used to get at the lower levels and some of the other expansions.
All in all, it seems the game is now encouraging people to do their own thing - the Garrison and the dungeons. There are no dailies in Draenor, to speak of, so you don't really see much going on unless it's people still catching up to level 100.
The Garrison seems to be everyone's hub now, playing alone doing their thing - but I had to ask myself, "To what end?" The game is taking up people's time now, with the Garrison, and that's the key feature that people are encouraged to work at, because aside from the dungeons, that's the game now in it's entirety. You're paying your sub and dedicating time to repeat the same thing every day. Mmm.
The questing was so fast from 90-100 and the world map seems quite small - each zone may be ok in size, but much of the space is mountains, hills and forests, so there's not really that many places to explore.
When I think back to when WoW came out, it took an age to get to the level cap and that game costs the same as the expansions do now. There was a whole game of things to do, level 1-60; lots and lots of zones and a wide variety of stuff. Now you get charged the same price for a handful of zones and no new races, professions, talents, classes. Blizzard has got lazy and they think that by giving us our own farmville (again!) that it justifies it as a game.
I know I'll get flamed for this post as people are still in honeymoon period, but I think the masses will eventually realise that doing this WoD day after day is going to get boring fast.
Just my thoughts of course.
I could go on all day with examples but that is not my job here.
That's a copout, I challenge you to give 10 more examples. If you can "go on ALL DAY" you certainly should be able to conjure 10.
Seeing the quote in the previous post, I found another part of the OP to comment...
Originally posted by mark2123
When I think back to when WoW came out, it took an age to get to the level cap and that game costs the same as the expansions do now.
Ages? I bought the game at its release November 23, 2004, beginning January 2005 I was farming the max level dungeons to get ready for raiding.
There was a whole game of things to do, level 1-60; lots and lots of zones and a wide variety of stuff.
There's a metric ton more things to do in WoW nowadays than there was in 2004 at release.
Nostalgia often blurrs the reality.
I think you should just copy-paste this into all "Vet Since Launch, Bored & Done with WoW" posts.
I agree and can admit wholeheartedly that my view of current WoW is skewed since my fondest gaming memories lay in vanilla WoW. I've tried two expansions and just get the "meh" feeling when I'm max level. The problem is me, not Blizzard.
Seeing the quote in the previous post, I found another part of the OP to comment...
Originally posted by mark2123
When I think back to when WoW came out, it took an age to get to the level cap and that game costs the same as the expansions do now.
Ages? I bought the game at its release November 23, 2004, beginning January 2005 I was farming the max level dungeons to get ready for raiding.
There was a whole game of things to do, level 1-60; lots and lots of zones and a wide variety of stuff.
There's a metric ton more things to do in WoW nowadays than there was in 2004 at release.
Nostalgia often blurrs the reality.
That is deceptive... because you see, in today's WoW, you are told what to do whereas in vanilla WoW, you are not.
Example: Grinding rep with the Bloodsail Buccaneers was not as easy nor was it an achievement back then. You had to just discover it on your own.
So you see, there were many things to do in vanilla WoW that were later turned into achievements in current WoW. Why? Because players seemed to have fun creating their own fun. Sort of hard to do the same thing today since EVERYTHING is an achievement. You have a laundry list to follow built right into the game with a very high success rate for limited time of effort. Back in the day, you were considered nuts to do some of these things because there was no reward for doing so other than your own sick pleasure.
There are many more examples that one can find... modern WoW just makes it easier to do things... it does not necessarily give you more things to do. There is a big difference between advertising every little detail about everything one can do in game and merely tossing them into the world and saying, "explore!"
That's the real difference between vanilla WoW and modern WoW. Has nothing to do with nostalgia, has everything to do with game design.
The former was when WOW was a mmoRPG, now WOW has evolved into something different and I would argue that WOW is now fundementally a mmocoop i.e it has specialised to aim for people who enjoy solo play and activities and lobbies with fast queues for instances.
edit is mmo co-operative the best categorisation?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The former was when WOW was a mmoRPG, now WOW has evolved into something different and I would argue that WOW is now fundementally a mmocoop i.e it has specialised to aim for people who enjoy solo play and activities and lobbies with fast queues for instances.
edit is mmo co-operative the best categorisation?
If that is what YOU THINK wow is that is a YOU problem. Because the way I play and those in my guild play its still an MMORPG. If people sit in their Garrison and cry about sitting in their Garrison that is THEIR issue not the games. There is plenty to do.
Seeing the quote in the previous post, I found another part of the OP to comment...
Originally posted by mark2123
When I think back to when WoW came out, it took an age to get to the level cap and that game costs the same as the expansions do now.
Ages? I bought the game at its release November 23, 2004, beginning January 2005 I was farming the max level dungeons to get ready for raiding.
There was a whole game of things to do, level 1-60; lots and lots of zones and a wide variety of stuff.
There's a metric ton more things to do in WoW nowadays than there was in 2004 at release.
Nostalgia often blurrs the reality.
That is deceptive... because you see, in today's WoW, you are told what to do whereas in vanilla WoW, you are not.
Example: Grinding rep with the Bloodsail Buccaneers was not as easy nor was it an achievement back then. You had to just discover it on your own.
So you see, there were many things to do in vanilla WoW that were later turned into achievements in current WoW. Why? Because players seemed to have fun creating their own fun. Sort of hard to do the same thing today since EVERYTHING is an achievement. You have a laundry list to follow built right into the game with a very high success rate for limited time of effort. Back in the day, you were considered nuts to do some of these things because there was no reward for doing so other than your own sick pleasure.
There are many more examples that one can find... modern WoW just makes it easier to do things... it does not necessarily give you more things to do. There is a big difference between advertising every little detail about everything one can do in game and merely tossing them into the world and saying, "explore!"
That's the real difference between vanilla WoW and modern WoW. Has nothing to do with nostalgia, has everything to do with game design.
Have you played WoD? Because there is nothing that tells you how to activate specific invasions ( Im guessing you have no clue what those are). Well you need to figure out who you need to attack in order to open up specific invasions.
The former was when WOW was a mmoRPG, now WOW has evolved into something different and I would argue that WOW is now fundementally a mmocoop i.e it has specialised to aim for people who enjoy solo play and activities and lobbies with fast queues for instances.
edit is mmo co-operative the best categorisation?
If that is what YOU THINK wow is that is a YOU problem. Because the way I play and those in my guild play its still an MMORPG. If people sit in their Garrison and cry about sitting in their Garrison that is THEIR issue not the games. There is plenty to do.
I know I'll get flamed for this post as people are still in honeymoon period, but I think the masses will eventually realise that doing this WoD day after day is going to get boring fast.
Just my thoughts of course.
Some of us have reached the same conclusion as you have.
Sadly, though, Blizzard has been making games this way for some time now. And unfortunately, they've built such a praised name for themselves, that people are going to allow it for some time to come.
Blizzard has gotten to the point where it can sell us a turd, call it a game, and we'll pretend it is one. And when people get bored of Draenor? Well, there will be a handful of other bitesize games to enjoy. All within the time-tested Blizzard IP.
OP's first mistake was comparing WoD to vanilla WoW. Most of us compare it to MoP and Cata in which case WoD looks like the best expansion ever. The problem I'm seeing atm is aside from garrisons there's not nearly enough endgame content.
The former was when WOW was a mmoRPG, now WOW has evolved into something different and I would argue that WOW is now fundementally a mmocoop i.e it has specialised to aim for people who enjoy solo play and activities and lobbies with fast queues for instances.
edit is mmo co-operative the best categorisation?
If that is what YOU THINK wow is that is a YOU problem. Because the way I play and those in my guild play its still an MMORPG. If people sit in their Garrison and cry about sitting in their Garrison that is THEIR issue not the games. There is plenty to do.
Bingo!!!
I dont have a problem, I play other MMO that are still MMORPG's. You are mistaken because people are saying WOW is great for solo play, it does have a lobby based approach to gaming, in fact people are arguing hard against MMORPG's in general by arguing the WOW shows that MMORPG are on the way out and MMOs/COORGS etc are the way forward - maybe all those solo WOW players are mistaken as well eh?
In any case I don't remember saying all players play. You know fine well Blizzards big move forward for WOD is efficient queues and lobbies and Garrisons instead of dailies and they are aiming for SOLO casual players as their continued big money earner.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The former was when WOW was a mmoRPG, now WOW has evolved into something different and I would argue that WOW is now fundementally a mmocoop i.e it has specialised to aim for people who enjoy solo play and activities and lobbies with fast queues for instances.
edit is mmo co-operative the best categorisation?
If that is what YOU THINK wow is that is a YOU problem. Because the way I play and those in my guild play its still an MMORPG. If people sit in their Garrison and cry about sitting in their Garrison that is THEIR issue not the games. There is plenty to do.
Bingo!!!
I dont have a problem, I play other MMO that are still MMORPG's. You are mistaken because people are saying WOW is great for solo play, it does have a lobby based approach to gaming, in fact people are arguing hard against MMORPG's in general by arguing the WOW shows that MMORPG are on the way out and MMOs/COORGS etc are the way forward - maybe all those solo WOW players are mistaken as well eh?
In any case I don't remember saying all players play. You know fine well Blizzards big move forward for WOD is efficient queues and lobbies and Garrisons instead of dailies and they are aiming for SOLO casual players as their continued big money earner.
Yes yes you do have a problem.
What Mmos do you play that are still Mmorpgs ?
What "people" are saying WoW is great for solo play?
How does WoW have a lobby feel? The largest open world of all MMOs is a lobby to you lol?
What "people" are saying WoW shows MMORPGS are on the way out and Mmo coop as you call them are in?
Who are all these "solo wow player"?
Anyways please post a few more inaccurate non factual hater topics with zero proof to back up any of them.
I'd also love to see a link to your wow account to see if you actually play the game where all these "people" say the things you mentioned.
And btw since it's obvious you don't play this "solo coop" game why does it have pages and pages of groups forming for world boss, rep grinds, invasion grinds, raids, mount run questing and everything in between. You would think for being a solo game there wouldn't be so many people looking for groups.
The problem is you are talking about a subject you clearly don't have any knowledge on...
Uhu, well reading stuff on this forum would be a start, Blizzard design choices have been well discussed, (like them or not) then maybe this thread - are they all 'haters' too? To answer your question about my personal history, the basics are my sig, i have as much right and experience as you to comment.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Unfortunately at this point, Blizzard has become a company to avoid.
I get the feeling that they do not actually play the games they make. Surely potential problems like making a subscription game feel like a single player game would have been noticed?
What are the key characteristics of a mmo co-op, Lobbies?, Queues?, majority of party runs in PUG form? To be fair WOWis a good mmo co-op, and when labelled as such its a good game, and if blizzard invested properly as such I would have nothing to complain about here personally. At the moment the game is a mishmash.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
Well i understand you point of view OP. I feel the same way when it comes to log in, in the game now. I love the game don't get me wrong on that but it does not look like a mmorpg anymore. It is more like a single player rpg with some multiplayer addon twist to it.
If they keep listening to the bad players that wants everything now and max out each characters in a single month just to brag about been able to maximes there subs and because they are altoholics then it will go downhills. Sure Blizzard got back up to 10 million subs but it was not because of the xpc per say, it was about the fact they promis to go back to there old root. But now that we see that they again listened to the poor kids around the block again, i guess starting in january or february it will start again to go down hill in subs like before. This xpac won't last this time around. That is my prediction.
Ye i remember those days with fond memories, BRD run or the Attunement run - it wasn't hardcore, but you did need 5 players who could play their classes. I t think however they have taken it too far, a couple hours is too long but felt epic, but 15 -30 mins of aoeing everything is pointless. 45 man runs aka the 5 man runs in TBC wa a nice balance i felt, however blizzard wants that constant drip feed of chemical hits to the brain and runnig with 45 mins without gaining anything is too risky.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I will say that PvE content is better than Vanilla nowadays. However, I wish WoW had expanded it's endgame horizontally rather than vertically. I think they were designing Titan to be less grind, more activities to pursue. WoW has funnelled everyone into either Arena/Raids. Essentially removed crafting and world pvp of any kind... and we are paying Blizz the most $ for any MMO on the market.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
As the OP I thought I'd come back and add my views to what's been posted. Incidentally, my sub ran out and I uninstalled the game and not only do I not miss it, there are a whole load of other games out there more deserving of my time and money (in my opinion).
Blizz originally released a full-priced game 10 years ago that had lots of classes, professions, two whole land-masses of content, thousands of quests and a fair bit to do. Each expansion, for the same price, seems to give us less to do and is designed in such a way that it probably takes thema lot less effort to make it but the repetitive nature is supposed to keep us happy.
The Garrisons, 6 weeks in, should all be maxed and creating an abundance of resources - to go their stuff every day is mindless now. Heroic dungeons don't even better the gear you get from making/salvaging in your Garrison - so what's the point?
Other than your Apexis Crystal daily and your Garrison, seriously, what else is there to do that's new, to justify a monthly sub - other than work towards raiding? I thought Blizzard were creating expacs that gave people options if they didn't like raiding. So what are they now?
For a full-priced game, we got a handful of small zones where there is nothing to do in them at level 100, no new professions, no new races or classes, little else really than other games give you for free, no take a full-priced expac fee and then charge a monthly sub.
I'm glad I'm out as I think that spending more hours on the game would be just wasting time when there are better games on the market now - WoW has shown it's age and Blizzard it's true colours. They want your money for the least effort. The bubble is about to burst on them, which they know and that's why they are making new games again.
I think as soon as you start dissecting a game to identify it's pro's and con's or look for reasons to justify playing it, it's not fun, period.
If it were fun, these things would never enter into your mind. You wouldn't care if it had a sub or a cash shop or was F2P it was fun. Fun is all about the moment. While you are in that moment, everything else stops... you have no recollection of time or anything else outside of that moment, you are fixated on the game. Some people call this the honeymoon period... because for this brief period of time, they were having fun.
The reality is, the OP got his money's worth because he indeed had fun playing it. That's all a game is supposed to do. A roller coaster ride typically doesn't last past 3 minutes... you will travel across the country, spend a fortune getting there, and wait in line for an hour or more, just for 3 minutes of fun. Fun is not endless... you have to find that moment and ride it like a wave until it crashes back at the shore.
"I've seen through WoD and I'm no longer impressed" could have easily been written as "I had a blast riding the wave." The fact that there isn't another wave to ride doesn't negate the one you had been on. Fun is all about the moment. You had that moment. You had fun.
You're right, I had fun, and for a monthly subscription, I expected to have more fun than I did, but given that there's nothing to do other than Garrison, 1 daily Apexis quest and Raid, it's not for me and I have to admit that I expected more from Blizzard, so now I'm disappointed. There's lots of others too and I suspect that the subs will begin to tail off again and drop even past their lowest previous point.
And I suspect you have no clue what your talking about and for the next ten years we get to listen to people like you QQ about a video game they "uninstalled" and proclaim "the subs will fall to their lowest point" but of coarse when they surpass 10 MILLION they discredit that number.
Fun fact you know how many VIDEO GAMES I've uninstalled and then went to QQ about them in some random site? Yeah that would be ZERO.
Another fun fact because after reading this I find it hard to believe you ever played WoD and just took a few talking points from their forums. Everyday there are still pages and pages of people looking for groups to do reputation, Crystal , farming to activate specific invasion, plus all the pages and pages of people looking for groups in the raids. Queue times for lfr are under 10 min for dps, queue times for heroics have not gone up but gone down. So again good luck with your "population will go to its lowest point" lol.
I expect to win a million dollars... hasn't happened yet, but I keep expecting it. That isn't the same thing as fun. Fun isn't about expectations... it's a moment. Children have fun because they don't expect anything, they just let it happen, naturally. You go into a game expecting anything and you will always be disappointed. That's the problem with websites like these... they dissect everything into a score card and you start playing games based on that score card. Right there you've already removed the "fun" of the experience. It's like reading the end of a book before starting the story. Knowing what is to come is a deterrent to fun. People always have fond memories of their old games... funny thing is, when they played them, they didn't have a 1000 dissertations on them as to why they were and were not fun. You just played them and rode the wave. Unless you are willing to hop on that wave, you will never have any fun.
And, whether you are the only person on the planet playing the game of one of billions... when you are having fun, you don't notice such things. These are things you notice when you are no longer having fun.
I couldn't agree more - no longer having fun paying a monthly sub for no longer having fun, so I noticed those things. Spot on there.
That's a copout, I challenge you to give 10 more examples. If you can "go on ALL DAY" you certainly should be able to conjure 10.
I think you should just copy-paste this into all "Vet Since Launch, Bored & Done with WoW" posts.
I agree and can admit wholeheartedly that my view of current WoW is skewed since my fondest gaming memories lay in vanilla WoW. I've tried two expansions and just get the "meh" feeling when I'm max level. The problem is me, not Blizzard.
Played: Ultima Online - DaoC - WoW -
That is deceptive... because you see, in today's WoW, you are told what to do whereas in vanilla WoW, you are not.
Example: Grinding rep with the Bloodsail Buccaneers was not as easy nor was it an achievement back then. You had to just discover it on your own.
So you see, there were many things to do in vanilla WoW that were later turned into achievements in current WoW. Why? Because players seemed to have fun creating their own fun. Sort of hard to do the same thing today since EVERYTHING is an achievement. You have a laundry list to follow built right into the game with a very high success rate for limited time of effort. Back in the day, you were considered nuts to do some of these things because there was no reward for doing so other than your own sick pleasure.
There are many more examples that one can find... modern WoW just makes it easier to do things... it does not necessarily give you more things to do. There is a big difference between advertising every little detail about everything one can do in game and merely tossing them into the world and saying, "explore!"
That's the real difference between vanilla WoW and modern WoW. Has nothing to do with nostalgia, has everything to do with game design.
The former was when WOW was a mmoRPG, now WOW has evolved into something different and I would argue that WOW is now fundementally a mmocoop i.e it has specialised to aim for people who enjoy solo play and activities and lobbies with fast queues for instances.
edit is mmo co-operative the best categorisation?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
If that is what YOU THINK wow is that is a YOU problem. Because the way I play and those in my guild play its still an MMORPG. If people sit in their Garrison and cry about sitting in their Garrison that is THEIR issue not the games. There is plenty to do.
Have you played WoD? Because there is nothing that tells you how to activate specific invasions ( Im guessing you have no clue what those are). Well you need to figure out who you need to attack in order to open up specific invasions.
Bingo!!!
Some of us have reached the same conclusion as you have.
Sadly, though, Blizzard has been making games this way for some time now. And unfortunately, they've built such a praised name for themselves, that people are going to allow it for some time to come.
Blizzard has gotten to the point where it can sell us a turd, call it a game, and we'll pretend it is one. And when people get bored of Draenor? Well, there will be a handful of other bitesize games to enjoy. All within the time-tested Blizzard IP.
I dont have a problem, I play other MMO that are still MMORPG's. You are mistaken because people are saying WOW is great for solo play, it does have a lobby based approach to gaming, in fact people are arguing hard against MMORPG's in general by arguing the WOW shows that MMORPG are on the way out and MMOs/COORGS etc are the way forward - maybe all those solo WOW players are mistaken as well eh?
In any case I don't remember saying all players play. You know fine well Blizzards big move forward for WOD is efficient queues and lobbies and Garrisons instead of dailies and they are aiming for SOLO casual players as their continued big money earner.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Yes yes you do have a problem.
What Mmos do you play that are still Mmorpgs ?
What "people" are saying WoW is great for solo play?
How does WoW have a lobby feel? The largest open world of all MMOs is a lobby to you lol?
What "people" are saying WoW shows MMORPGS are on the way out and Mmo coop as you call them are in?
Who are all these "solo wow player"?
Anyways please post a few more inaccurate non factual hater topics with zero proof to back up any of them.
I'd also love to see a link to your wow account to see if you actually play the game where all these "people" say the things you mentioned.
And btw since it's obvious you don't play this "solo coop" game why does it have pages and pages of groups forming for world boss, rep grinds, invasion grinds, raids, mount run questing and everything in between. You would think for being a solo game there wouldn't be so many people looking for groups.
The problem is you are talking about a subject you clearly don't have any knowledge on...
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Unfortunately at this point, Blizzard has become a company to avoid.
I get the feeling that they do not actually play the games they make. Surely potential problems like making a subscription game feel like a single player game would have been noticed?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D