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[Column] WildStar: Learning from WildStar

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Comments

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Originally posted by rodingo
    The biggest thing I hope that is learned from Wildstar is how dull and overdone quest hubs are or questing that leads you to specific areas.   I guess we will see how EQNext does their level progression since they are one of the bigger upcoming AAA mmos.  Of course I'm still hoping I will find my next fix in games such as Elite: Dangerous or Star Citizen.

    Rather the lesson should be that much like AA, WIldstar is an example of questing done wrong from the ground up.. Questing is fine if it's handled well in both presentation and tasks, you just have to have other things of interest as well, which most tend to lack that extra incentive to play... an inherent problem with themeparks in general, most only offer something for extremely niche audiences once questing is said and done (PVP or raiding).

    Questing isn't the problem, nor quest hubs.

    Stale presentation, lore no one really cares about, themes few care about, tasks that offer little more than collect or kill with little reason or interest to be doing so.. etc.. That's what has got to go, hence why titles like TOR remain at least semi popular, people have a connection to the story(stories) and wish to see it through, that alone can make a huge difference.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Rastan1Rastan1 Member UncommonPosts: 73
    Good time killer. Horrible mmo. I actually liked a good bit of this game but the end game was terrible. The combat is so boring and lacks any real synergy. The community was total garbage as well. It's hard to have a solid mmo without those things being right.
  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381

    Enjoyed a lot Wildstar, despite terrible lag at times (until one of last updates before launch game run incredibly smooth), bugs and bots (fixed however very fast).

    All in all in many ways very original game, still missing in any game since then that double jump, great cartoony style, enough homour, very active combat, .... actually I would gladly return at any time (ok, after Wod and then SWTOR, wears off) IF THEY REMOVE THAT SINGLE SILLY BUTTON MASHING BAR! I hate button mashers! Otherwise would not leave PS world. When I stopped to play Wildstar was not at all for bugs, bots, lag, ... was because I did not see any future in this game because of that terrible decision to have few buttons. Period.

  • V_i_OV_i_O Member UncommonPosts: 55
    action-Combat including telegraphs/raids (20-men)/housing/sound tracks/classes/paths/amps/tiers/art style/zones/battle grounds/warplots/crafting/dungeons/cinematics/dev speaks/ challenges/adventures/the fast paced gameplay and the lore were all done absolutely good and perfect in my opinion and i actually don't care about any negative feedback on what i previously said HOWEVER, in my opinion what really made the game go down is itemization(pvp wise), poor opimization of system requirments, user interface was so messy, tutorial (boring) and quests some time turn to be very boring (exclamation marks, traditional quest hubs with kill that , collect that , press on that) and the 40-men hardcore must do end game content is just chaotic. a note here ( the instant recieve quest reward from the communicator and collecting droped items by pressing V was a nice touch aswell as the crowd control effects)
  • SaluteSalute Member UncommonPosts: 795

    Like:

    1. Combat

    2. Mechanics (cc, interrupt etc)

    3. Mob AI

    4. Movement, animations, sprint

    5. Boss fights

    6. Housing

    7. Rewards for playing within a party

    8. Graphics

    9. Music

    10. PvE in general (shiphands, adventures, dungeons, raids, open world pve content)

     

    Dislike:

    1. Optimization

    2. 40man Raids

    3. PvP in general

    4. Itemization

    5. AH

    6. Look of gear & weapons

    7. Daily quests & rep grind

    8. Overhauled by quests during lvling

    9. No separate starting zones for different races

    10. Feels soulless

    All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
    Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2

  • V_i_OV_i_O Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by Salute

    Like:

    1. Combat

    2. Mechanics (cc, interrupt etc)

    3. Mob AI

    4. Movement, animations, sprint

    5. Boss fights

    6. Housing

    7. Rewards for playing within a party

    8. Graphics

    9. Music

    10. PvE in general (shiphands, adventures, dungeons, raids, open world pve content)

     

    Dislike:

    1. Optimization

    2. 40man Raids

    3. PvP in general

    4. Itemization

    5. AH

    6. Look of gear & weapons

    7. Daily quests & rep grind

    8. Overhauled by quests during lvling

    9. No separate starting zones for different races

    10. Feels soulless

     

    they are removing 40 men raids, fixing itemization and optimization issues in drop 4 and adding more lore for that souless feeling... you can always play in the pve server if you dislike pvp.. wildstar is the least grindy mmo out there , if you dislike grinding then i don't think you can play any mmo... there just removed 6 of the problems you are facing

  • SaluteSalute Member UncommonPosts: 795
    Originally posted by V_i_O

    they are removing 40 men raids, fixing itemization and optimization issues in drop 4 and adding more lore for that souless feeling... you can always play in the pve server if you dislike pvp.. wildstar is the least grindy mmo out there , if you dislike grinding then i don't think you can play any mmo... there just removed 6 of the problems you are facing

    i know about raids, lore, optimizations fixes etc and i also wait to see the changes in Drop 4.

    As for grind, i don't have any problem as its not all about daily quests and rep. Not only in WS but in every mmo. I hate it in wow also and i  hate it where ever i m forced to do it.

    Btw i m currently playing WoD but still having my sub active in WS, just to support the game. I think Drop 4 will show if they can turn things around, else imho F2P/B2P is the only solution. I m in Jabbit server (EU-PvE).

    All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
    Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2

  • V_i_OV_i_O Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by Salute
    Originally posted by V_i_O

    they are removing 40 men raids, fixing itemization and optimization issues in drop 4 and adding more lore for that souless feeling... you can always play in the pve server if you dislike pvp.. wildstar is the least grindy mmo out there , if you dislike grinding then i don't think you can play any mmo... there just removed 6 of the problems you are facing

    i know about raids, lore, optimizations fixes etc and i also wait to see the changes in Drop 4.

    As for grind, i don't have any problem as its not all about daily quests and rep. Not only in WS but in every mmo. I hate it in wow also and i  hate it where ever i m forced to do it.

    Btw i m currently playing WoD but still having my sub active in WS, just to support the game. I think Drop 4 will show if they can turn things around, else imho F2P/B2P is the only solution. I m in Jabbit server (EU-PvE).

     

    Well we will see , i hate to see this game going f2p in my opinion i think it deserves the sub but not in its current situation , however it is a new ip with so many bugs which is normal and typical, what made wow/eso/SWOTOR/dc online/GW2/final fantasy xiv/ successful more than wildstar is one word ( FRANCHISE) although ESO in my opinion is a very poorly optimized game even more than wildstar

  • SaluteSalute Member UncommonPosts: 795
    Originally posted by V_i_O
    Originally posted by Salute
    Originally posted by V_i_O

    they are removing 40 men raids, fixing itemization and optimization issues in drop 4 and adding more lore for that souless feeling... you can always play in the pve server if you dislike pvp.. wildstar is the least grindy mmo out there , if you dislike grinding then i don't think you can play any mmo... there just removed 6 of the problems you are facing

    i know about raids, lore, optimizations fixes etc and i also wait to see the changes in Drop 4.

    As for grind, i don't have any problem as its not all about daily quests and rep. Not only in WS but in every mmo. I hate it in wow also and i  hate it where ever i m forced to do it.

    Btw i m currently playing WoD but still having my sub active in WS, just to support the game. I think Drop 4 will show if they can turn things around, else imho F2P/B2P is the only solution. I m in Jabbit server (EU-PvE).

     

    Well we will see , i hate to see this game going f2p in my opinion i think it deserves the sub but not in its current situation , however it is a new ip with so many bugs which is normal and typical, what made wow/eso/SWOTOR/dc online/GW2/final fantasy xiv/ successful more than wildstar is one word ( FRANCHISE) although ESO in my opinion is a very poorly optimized game even more than wildstar

     

    I dont know if WS is better than the other games you mentioned and tbh i dont care. I can say for sure that WS doesnt have the advantage of those other games, their HUGE ip. Its a very difficult task for an unknown ip game to stay alive as a sub one until it fixes its problems. 10 years ago maybe, but in the current mmo market this is almost an impossible task. Except ofc if some1 creates a perfect mmo at launch.

    All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
    Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2

  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878

    This site gave WildStar an 8.4 rating.

     

    What does it mean? Like 8.4 out of 10? Isn't that a must-buy game? I don't understand the disconnect between the rating and the fallout post-launch. What happened?


  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254
    Originally posted by d_20

    This site gave WildStar an 8.4 rating.

     

    What does it mean? Like 8.4 out of 10? Isn't that a must-buy game? I don't understand the disconnect between the rating and the fallout post-launch. What happened?

    I really wonder this too - I think it is very fun, well designed and polished. I don't know why people are so down on it. The reasons they give just don't strike true with my experience.

     

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Souless.
    Just a collection of everything badly implemented.

    But its biggest problem is that Wildstar is 2 different games in one.
    The most casual when you level and the hardest endgame.
    I am a raider but I could not bring myself to get through the dull leveling in order to play Raids.

    For the casuals is the opposite.
    They enjoy the ride but when they get to the endgame is like hitting a brick wall.
    Very badly design game IMO.
    One of the worse one around.

  • OriousOrious Member UncommonPosts: 548

    Wildstar is a prime example of why devs need to focus on a niche nowadays instead of attempting to become the next WoW. WoW had years to improve and grab a small piece of every MMO niche. You can't launch a game like that from the start. Start with a niche and a focused audience so you have systems with DEPTH, then add in pieces of other things that won't alienate your main player-base yet brings in more people.

    Just like people said above, if the lore is good... you can't start it halfway through the leveling a stale/soulless leveling progression.

    There was just way too many little things to focus on. Find a big thing and stick to that big thing as long as possible then add in the sub-sets. This is the same issue beginner novellist have. They pour too many "niches" into one book, which makes the book depthless and unfocused.

    But the main question: Is wildstar fun? I'd say it has great "game" aspects too it, but an MMORPG should feel more than just a game. Some would find the game aspects the best part and really fun. Others like me want something more philosophical about our MMOs.

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  • JotteJotte Member UncommonPosts: 5

    From article:

    "It’s also not inconceivable that we gamers are a fickle bunch, and are a bit too quick to criticize a product that we praised when it was the new hotness."

    -

    This signifys a VERY large portion of the "gamer" community of today that is active on forums and sites like this, unfortunatly. 

  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 520

    I didn't like the combat. I thought it would be fun and innovative on paper, but in reality it was just boring.

    But more than that, I didn't like the quest content. Every five seconds I would get a call giving me another quest, or I'd run into an area with a challenge, or I'd find another 10 NPCs each with 10 quests, or I'd be given a bunch of lore to read. It was ridiculous. 

  • tordurbartordurbar Member UncommonPosts: 421

    Target a specific audience? They tried that by un-officially advertising the game as for hardcore players. Obviously that did not work.

    But I agree with the OP in a sense. He is dead on with the overwhelming input. I got to the main city as the Exile (do not remember the name) and had no idea what I should be doing. Crafting and building had SO many options, what to do?

    Carbine did go for too much. They went after the console players with action combat and after the hardcore with the 40 man dungeons. The tone of the game was tongue in cheek maybe to go after the casual. 

    Personally I liked the game but could not deal with the action combat.

  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904

    I don't think the game is worth the price of a sub.

    My reasons as the same as countless posts above, but if it were of the b2p, f2p variety then i could probably justify investing some time the game.

    I was excited for this game at one stage but it quickly became apparent that they had a "inner circle" of community that they were catering to and any suggestion that was not doing fan service to them was quickly rejected.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • VolgoreVolgore Member EpicPosts: 3,872

    "What can we learn from Wildstar?"

    I think the more important question is "What can Carbine learn from Wildstar?"

    After all, they haven't learned anything from previous games during the 9yr development -so hopefully their own title taught them something by now.

    image
  • meonthissitemeonthissite Member UncommonPosts: 917

    Actually no three things contributed to it's demise and it wasn't just the hype.

    1st: is hands down it's focus on the 1% a group of diminishing elitist jerks who pine for the old days never to find it in anything. They couldn't even bother with supporting the 1 game that was built just for them.

    2nd: is the focus on raiding. that kind of progression was left behind by even the giants like WoW because they too knew that if you made the game solely about one playstyle you lose customers in the long run. Adapt to survive is the reason why WoW is still here. They changed their title to include other methods of advancement that are very close to the raiding gear you get. Not as pretty in many cases but very much functional in a similar way.

    3rd: the subscription model. There's a reason why only one game seems to do well with subs (WoW) because the subscription model is on it's way out, has been for years now. Granted there's been a wave of disappointments from the other billing models of late but that's not due to the alternative model being viable (as we've seen from games like Rift) it's due to a new wave of players that's come in who are being duped into thinking that they should pay out of pocket for progression. It's a sad day when people who have a gambling problem keep defending the problem in forums everywhere and nayone who points out their problem with being okay with spending for progression is viciously attacked.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591

    Soulless, like many other people have already said, is exactly how I'd describe WildStar. It's a game filled with boring and outdated PvE mechanics such as quest hubs that are literally filled with the most unexciting, extremely repetitive quests I've seen in an AAA+ MMORPG. If you're going to have an MMORPG that is filled with the most trite quests and charge a subscription for it, it at least needs to be voice acted. 

     

    I am not going to pay $15 a month to play a game that feels like every other PvE-centric MMORPG just because it has different combat mechanics (that are actually more annoying than fun). WildStar just didn't feel special. None of the races grabbed me, and there wasn't a single memorable NPC. I played this game when it was in closed beta and found it difficult just to get to level 10 without quitting.

     

    WildStar didn't seem to have it's own feel about it. I don't know if some players will know what I mean, but... When I played WildStar I didn't think "this is WildStar" because it felt so generic. Games like Allods Online have this unmistakable presence about them, where they create their own vibe, and WildStar failed to do that for me.

     

    Bottom line: It's just not a fun game.

     

    Smile

  • sludgebeardsludgebeard Member UncommonPosts: 788

    I actually found the storylines, the world, and the characters very intriguing. 

     

    Unfortunately being hand-held through content at the starter levels and the fact that I wasnt allowed to explore and feel threatened on these worlds just made me lose intrest really fast.

    I made it to the first major planet and there was literally one other person in the entire zone with me, on top of that the mobs were uninspired and easy, and there was no real exploration beyong my profession missions. Just too much of nothing, and like the first poster said, a very souless landscape.

  • MechanismMechanism Member UncommonPosts: 137

    I think I figured out the problem with this games combat. Enemies feel like the have unique attacks to keep you on your toes but they rarely have a unique defence. You've got to dance around their intricate telegraphs and interrupt certain attacks to stay alive but in order to kill them you just repeat an ability rotation until they die. And this isn't helped by the fact that each class has one or sometimes two different rotations to choose from if you're hoping to do the best damage possible.

  • OriousOrious Member UncommonPosts: 548
    Originally posted by tordurbar

    Target a specific audience? They tried that by un-officially advertising the game as for hardcore players. Obviously that did not work.

    They did and they didn't. They said it was hardcore, but those hardcore players had to waddle threw a lot of things they didn't like to get there. The game should have a cohesive experience and not say "oh we'll build this piece and then boom lets make the last bit to target the super niche". You have to target an audience throughout, which includes budgeting the game for that audience as well. 

    image

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Member UncommonPosts: 907
    Originally posted by V_i_O
    Originally posted by Salute

    Like:

    1. Combat

    2. Mechanics (cc, interrupt etc)

    3. Mob AI

    4. Movement, animations, sprint

    5. Boss fights

    6. Housing

    7. Rewards for playing within a party

    8. Graphics

    9. Music

    10. PvE in general (shiphands, adventures, dungeons, raids, open world pve content)

     

    Dislike:

    1. Optimization

    2. 40man Raids

    3. PvP in general

    4. Itemization

    5. AH

    6. Look of gear & weapons

    7. Daily quests & rep grind

    8. Overhauled by quests during lvling

    9. No separate starting zones for different races

    10. Feels soulless

     

    they are removing 40 men raids, fixing itemization and optimization issues in drop 4 and adding more lore for that souless feeling... you can always play in the pve server if you dislike pvp.. wildstar is the least grindy mmo out there , if you dislike grinding then i don't think you can play any mmo... there just removed 6 of the problems you are facing

    They can fix all that and that will not bring back some of us that did not like/enjoy the "Action Combat" or who had to quit WildStar due to the Action Combat causing physical ailments such as the flaring up of Arthritis for example. Playing WildStar for some of us caused more real life problems than any MMO is worth.

    If I had a say in things, and I don't of course, I would suggest to MMO Devs to keep Action Combat in Console Gaming where it belongs. Carbine mixing MMO gameplay and Console Gaming combat mechanics for me was disappointing. If they want to mix the styles then they need a new genre title.

     

    Other than that I found WildStar enjoyable... up to the point I had to stop playing due to my medical problems that arose out of playing WildStar. Too bad it wasn't designed for me, a MMO Gamer that plays ONLY MMOs. I am not upset with Carbine for what I did see of the game was fantastic.

  • DestaiDestai Member Posts: 574

    The best thing developers can learn from Wildstar is simple. 

    Stop.

    Stop making MMOs. There I said it. There's no pleasing the patrons of this genre, and every single game to have come out has been punished because the developers cannot appease the insatiable demand of players. I've compiled a list, so that developers can clearly understand why they're failing. Games are scorned for the following:

    1. Having a questing system.

    2. Not having a non-questing leveling system with clear instructions. So, not having a questing system. 

    3. Having no endgame.

    4. Not having endgame like WoW.

    5. Having endgame like WoW. 

    6. Having classes.

    7. Not having classes. 

    8. Not having a grouping features.

    9. Discouraging social interaction by having group finders. 

    10. Not having a recognized IP to drive sales and attract consumers. 

    11. Butchering an existing IP.

    12. Being Guild Wars 2 and releasing the equivalent of some high school girl's furry fan fiction where she tries to figure out if she's bi or not. 

    13. Being Destiny and having the CEO's 5 year old write the story after a week long bible camp. 

    14. Not having open world pvp.

    15. Not having a toggle to turn off said pvp, or having sufficient ointment for the butthurt. Seriously, they're people too. 

    16. Not having crafting.

    17. Not having craftable end game gear.

    18. Having the best end game gear be craftable. 

    19. Not having enough classes. We need more classes than reasonable, just so we can say, "don't play that class."

    20. Having too many classes. 

    21. Having an archaic skill system. 

    22. Having active combat. 

    23.Having a shitty UI.

    24. Having a shitty name. Wakfu. Yes, you. Stop that.

    25. Being Korean-made.

    26. Not appealing to Koreans.

    27. Not appealing to COD players.

    28. Not appealign to COD players who are also Korean. 

    29. Not appealing to LoL players.

    30. Not appealing to non-LoL players who like MOBAs, but also like a sensible UI. 

    31. Ripping off minecraft. 

    32. Ripping off World of Warcraft. Seriously, grab a box of WoW from Target, some screenshots, and take it to a kid's birthday party. Ask the drunk clown entertaining the kids if the game looks like WoW. If he says yes, DON'T MAKE IT. 

    33. Being a browser game. You should know better.

    34. Releasing no expansions.

    35. Releasing an expansion that's not really an expansion, but you just call it that so you can milk people $30 more. Destiny. 

    36. Saying expansion is a marketing term and replacing it with bags and 2 quests per month. 

    37. Having a gem store. 

    38. Having elves.

    39. Being sci-fi.

    40. Having a binary gender choice. Some people can't accept the fact they're an exception to a genetic rule and need that validation. Have some sensitivity. 

    I think I covered it.

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