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Is this going to be the way...
Angervien
Member UncommonPosts: 24
in Star Citizen
I am truly worried about the way I have seen this game play out, this isn't a troll thread and I am wondering.
To the people that have actually followed the game closely and are probably playing it in its current state, my concern is cost.
With posts that talk so nonchalantly about the cost of the special ships (are these ships ptw?).
Are the developers going to continue to go down this road with some big ticket items that are possibly more powerful than ships/items that you can get in game without putting up big money.
Thanks in advance for answering my concerns.
Comments
Everything you every wanted to know about the Star Citizen P2W discussion (including Chris Roberts official answer):
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/93157/katamari-damashii-pay-to-win/p1
Have fun
PS: For those that do not want to read 2500+ posts, here is only CR answer:
"Wow, there's a few things that get real gamer's blood boiling more than "micro-transactions" - perhaps "DRM", "EA" and "Pay2Win" but that's about it.
It would be nice if everyone that was getting up in arms about the OP actually read the article that was referred to as I DON'T mention micro-transactions anywhere. The full article is here http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-22-chris-roberts-how-incredible-community-transforms-development. If you read my words I'm incredibly happy and excited about making the game, how the interaction with all of YOU is making the game better AND how grateful I am that everyone has been so generous in their contributions as its allowing us to make a game without compromises.
My reference to World of Tanks was purely about how I felt the ability for people that don't have 40 hours a week to sink into a game have the opportunity to spend some money to keep up (an early post called this Pay2BeEqual) or drive a sexy tank they don't have 200 hours of game time to earn. I think WoT has some similarities to SC because they are both skill based games so having better equipment may help you but it will NOT guarantee victory - which is very important and similar to real life (I can have a better sports car than you but if you're a better driver you'll probably be able to beat me on a road course). And it is encouraging to me that they are doing well financially as it is a PC game in what I would have considered a niche category, which at first glance is how you could categorize Star Citizen. Its going to cost significant money to make Star Citizen and more money to continue to run it. I would love to see Star Citizen hit a 10 year anniversary like Eve, and knowing that another online PC game is doing well makes me feel confident that SC has the potential for longevity that I think everyone would like to see (which was the context for my comments in the article)
For the record here are my simple rules for what I'm aiming for with Star Citizen (and personal play preference)
1) NO grind - basic gameplay should be fun.
2) NO subscription to play. Once you've bought the game you should be able to play and have fun without paying another penny. Maybe this is from all the MMOs I signed up for and then didn't have time to play yet still had to pay to keep my character (I think I paid over 2 years of subs for both WoW and SWG before I canceled, despite only playing them for the first month or so!)
3) NO unfair advantage to people with either too much money or too much time. I think its disingenuous for people to claim that they should have a big advantage just because they can commit 40 hours a week in play time over someone that can only spend 4. Both types of player have purchased the game and are both entitled to have fun. If I make a game that only caters to people that have lots of time and nothing else I'm cutting out a huge part of the audience. The same goes if I build a game that just caters to people that have money to burn (The Asian P2W game style). Just because someone plays one way doesn't mean everyone should play that way. Some people will want to just spend a few hours dogfighting, some may want spend dozens of hours doing trade runs and building up a merchant empire. Others may just want to explore corners of the galaxy. A big audience supplies lots of players to make the universe more interesting. A big audience also spreads the costs of running the persistent universe (as it costs money for new content and servers), which in turn makes it cheaper for all.
4) NO Pay2Win - You should never be able to buy anything with real money that you can't buy in with in game credits. Once fully live SC in-game items will only be purchasable with in-game credits. There will even be some items you can ONLY earn by playing / flying missions. All you will be able to spend money on that is gameplay related would be buying some in-game credits as you don't want or don't have enough time to earn the credits you need for your contemplated purchase. We'll cap purchase of in-game credits to avoid someone unbalancing the game / economy. Finally as I point out above skill will always play a factor - there will be no "magic spaceship of death" that will sweep all before it, so while you may have bought a more expensive spaceship / weapon a better pilot can still beat you (this is where people with lots of time get an advantage as they'll have spent a lot more time honing their combat skills!)
From my perspective my above 4 rules and solutions are the best compromise that factors the need to make the game fun for people with lots of time or little time, while allowing the game the ability to cover its running costs based on player's actual engagement with the game. I am confident we can balance all this in a way that works and doesn't feel unfair to any one group. Contributing additional money beyond your initial ship package will be entirely optional and not required to have fun or progression (but if you do short cut once in a while, know that you're money is going to support the development of the game and on-going content!)
I hope this allays some concerns. If not, I ask that you wait to you have a chance to actually play and see how everything will work and be balanced before making your mind up.
-Chris"
At this point no one honestly knows.
Personally I find their method of raising money quite off-putting, there's definitely a 'talking out of both sides of their mouth' thing going on and lots of comments or decisions are obviously financially motivated despite claiming they're not.
The game looks great, it has real potential but a lot of the marketing practices come across as totally scummy. With that in mind, it's hard to not put anything past them.
Forgive my cynicism, but what this "Pay2BeEqual" design usually ends up being is: "Either play 40 hours a week or pay $40 a week"...
It's an inherent problem in any F2P design, because even if it is well-intentioned and only meant to help those "time-poor but cash-rich" players to catch-up, it usually has quite a different outcome. It's impossible to increase your playtime beyond a certain point (there's only 24 hours in a day), but it's quite easy (for some) to increase their spending exponentially.
Spend $40 per week and be equal to the player playing 40 hours per week ? Sure, but why not spend $80 per week and pwn that poor sap's ass ?
"SC will limit how many credits you can buy per week".
How exactly ? Players are not able to trade anything between themselves ? Each character may only receive X amount of credits per week, regardless of the source ? It's an F2P game, what stops me from buying credits on 5 different accounts and feeding them to my main ?
what is this "I have to play the game longer " than someone else attitude, first world problems really.
Is it a punishment for you to play a game, then why play it anyway? Gaming is timewasting anyway why do it if you don´t enjoy it?
It´s all about instant gratification nowadays, skip the gameplay!! Give me LOOT!! /facepalm
What´s next maybe the roles will switch again, like people now PAY to play alphas (formerly a job the developer had to pay for), maybe in the future developers will pay 40$ to gamers so they play their game?
Who knows- the world is crazy
I wonder how you pwn someones ass with money in a game based on your real world skill with your joystick .....
even the best equipment that money can buy won't save someone if (s)he sucks as a pilot.
Have fun
I tell you a little secret I only spent 140$ all in all on Star Citizen including a T-Shirt shipped and a Hoodie
The best gratification (not instant!) will be to work in the game and doing jobs and having a hard earned ship will be much more gratification than outright getting it for pledging as a reward.
I want to start in my Aurora and work up from there, climb the ladder from zero to hero.
I only have an Aurora and a 300i and this is okay for now, I am mostly looking forward to the single player campaign, then the open universe when the ships come into play.
So don´t criticise the people who support the game and sacrifcing this experience, because they will miss out on it and probably are the ones to get bored first.
This is going to be one of those games, that no matter how good it is, will never live up to expectations. Not for people dropping hundreds / thousands on ships.
Yes, some people have lots of discretionary income, but I assure you that a lot of people are putting their ships on credit cards with wide eyed optimism that the game will be everything they ever imagined. It just won't. Even if it's a great game, people are setting their expectations way too high and the tears will be legendary.
Lol. That was a really poor attempt, you must be in a rush.
In World of Tanks you use your RL aiming skills too. You can't buy better aiming skills in the game either.
But you can buy better ammo...
In F2P games with a Cash Shop, there's thousands of ways to sell players small "advantages" that don't represent a clearly defined "I win" button. Only the poorly designed monetization schemes have those.
Let's hope that SC does not stray too far in that direction.
So true and so, so sad! This isn't a problem with F2P, though, like the first quoted post eludes to, it's a problem with "winning" I blame WoW for introducing World Firsts. Reality is, though, World First is rarely the "best". I raided with a World First tank at one point (WotLK). When he dinged, he almost immediately left our Guild (which was actually one of the better guilds on the server at the time), pulled a server transfer, just so he could tank for some higher profile guild. In the end, he ended up on their reserve team, lol.
I'd be lying if I ignored the guild's influence on that, too, though. Guilds tend to push their players through content, also, and if you don't, then you're cut.
Why you rush bro?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Gamer Day
11am: get up, get Coffee and Cheetos for breakfast
11.30am: reading something on a game site about some game in development
11:35am to 1pm: being concerned
Getting lunch from Taco Bell
1pm-9pm: playing some instant gratification game with lots of loot
9pm to 11pm: being concerned
12pm going to sleep, dreaming about concerns
It's not about heaving to play longer, as an issue in and of itself.
The problem, at least they way I see it, is a time factor.
Getting a ship that is better than what someone else can get initially, but can catch up later, may (or may not) still be pay to win. It really depends on the game itself and what a player can do with those ships during the time when others are playing catch up, there will be a temporary advantage.
Now, if the game mechanics have a similar effect as say GW2, that's not really a problem. Just playing through puts you on par with everyone else eventually. However, if the game has mechanics that use things like resources or any kind of "king of the hill" or "1st come, 1st serve" mechanics, then those temporary advantages can be translated into permanent ones. Because by the time someone earned a comparable ship through game play, the whale has had much time to set up advantages in other ways that the grinding player didn't have access to. And now that he does, it's too little too late.
That's still P2W.
I wonder who was in a rush ;-)
May i point out to you (AGAIN) the answer from Chris Roberts - especially Point 4 - where he explicitly rules out things like the WoT premium ammo. On general principle. Nothing will be buyable ONLY with real world money. Everthing will also be obtainable with in game money. CR was quite clear here.
You can speculate to your hearts content what you THINK will be in the shop. Me, i rather base my judgement on facts like official statements by the games designer.
Have fun
You must live a pretty crappy life if that's how your typical day goes Doc