The word 'grind' is used by op to describe an activity thru don't personally like. Doing dungeons is a grind, doing battlegrounds is a grind, doing pvp is a grind. Anything that is repeatable could be classified as a grind.
Op thread would make more sense if it said 'you like doing that thing I don't like, really???'
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by LovrNoFightr Some people think that grinding equals fun. Doing the same things over and over again.Why is that?
It's partially because some MMO gamers have a different definition of 'grind' than the rest of the world. If you ask them if they felt what they were doing was enjoyable or a laborious task, they'd say the former. So, in reality, NO ONE like grinding except maybe the occasional masochist.
Long ago I defined for myself that everything in every video game is a grind. The end result is that it isn't a negative to me. That being said, that doesn't mean I have to play every aspect of a game if I choose not to. I just think grind is one of those game terms that players can use to take away enjoyment of a game.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Grinding is part of the game, but sometimes it irritates me for too much grinding without good benefits or if the experience that I gain is still low or very very very low....
Grinding is something that is unpleasant, especially if it is for an extended period of time. If the person finds the activity fun, then it is not a grind to them.
Doing a dungeon crawl, leveling up with a group tackling tough mobs, raiding, I enjoy, it is not a grind. Quest based progression, doing menial tasks, now THAT is a grind, ugh. True epic quests, while it can be difficult and a pain in the ass, not a grind for me.
Even some things that I would consider a grind, can be alleviated by the reward and outcome. Grinding for rep might suck, but not so bad if I am no longer KoS to a certain faction, making things easier and adding in some RP element.
Farming atmas in ffxiv was a bit of a grind, but wasn't so bad because I did some with friends, and I tended to be extremely lucky hehe. Had my own system and it seemed to work.
I'm sure a lot of people think of their jobs as a grind, but for those who enjoy it (myself) and don't just work to pay for bills, it is not a grind. Of course even though I like my job, I would retire right now if I could, lol.
I dislike grinding quest hubs with a passion i dont like the running around the world delivering letters or killing 10 wolves only to go back and collect the teeth off wolves right after. and that is a " quest " ? no its lame.
The kind of grind i like is killing mobs in a world pvp setting. I enjoy grinding in a fellow with others with the chance pvp can happen.
one example of this was in age of conan, there was a area that had a wagon. you destroy the wagon and tons of mobs come running to it and we would have a huge battle to clear the mobs for great xp. and allways was the chance of getting ganked by another group wanting to grind the wagon. we would pvp for hours just for the right to have that grind spot. tons of fun.
another example of grind i dont like.
grinding mobs for hours only to get .1% xp then if you die you lose 5% xp. this is mostly the type of grind i have done in korean grind games such as silk road and archlord. those are very heavy grind games with little xp in return. didnt like that kind of grind.
Some people think that grinding equals fun. Doing the same things over and over again.
Why is that?
I'm very happy to see that many MMOs allow us to buy things instead of grinding for them. IMO everything in a game should be able for purchasing. Equipment, races, levels and what have you.
If it's fun it's not a grind is it?
Doing slightly different quests all the way to max level is way more of a grind then wandering around killing stuff on my terms like EQ classic. At least to me.
If you're bored seeing your Character grinding over and over again, then why don't you try Rohan: Blood Feud, you can also buy equipments and things for craftings in their item mall. But the best part of Rohan when you don't want to spend much cash, there's hunter kit where your character grinds automatically even if your not playing your character. Just log into it and activate the hunter kit and go to some dungeon where there are many monsters.
SO OP is saying that doing something over and over can't be fun? Look at life and i am sure there are a million things you would love to repeat over and over.
If you can simply buy everything,why are you playing the game,a rpg is NOT the shopping channel nor is it supposed to be.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
SO OP is saying that doing something over and over can't be fun? Look at life and i am sure there are a million things you would love to repeat over and over.If you can simply buy everything,why are you playing the game,a rpg is NOT the shopping channel nor is it supposed to be.
seems like the cash shop mmorpg generation wants more to buy and less to play.
I played Phantasy Star (one) for the Sega Master System when it came out in '88. It was my first intro to modern CRPG gaming and also my first intro to grinding. I loved it.
The one thing I noticed form that point on that made RPGs stand out is that you had to put effort (play time) and work (days of playing, grinding and fighting) into advancing the game. Prior to this people were playing Super Mario Brothers and Tetris, where you just plug it in and go; every one, every time from the same point all the time, right from the start.
Grinding is what actually made a game feel like you were somehow gaining and edge over the game. Even in Legend of Zelda, I used to grind rupees to buy the blue ring and grind mobs for bombs instead of paying for them at a store; I was cheating the system!
Same still holds true for modern MMOs. If you're playing a game where everything is available to anyone who pays for it, I feel like I might at well turn on my PS3 and play an online FPS; you pay for the DLC gun, equip it and start shooting random noobs with it... I think Battlefield 2 started that trend, and also saved your stats for progression through the ranks.
But I don't want to be playing FPS style games, I want to play RPGs and the nearly 30 years of examples I've seen with RPGs means... grinding.
After WoW shitty generation, unfortunatelly, fast leveling and instanced everything once you reach the so called "end game" destroyed the social interaction of MMOs, there is no risk-reward in game either.
Before WoW, the rush to level cap in 24 hours quest chain + instanced dungeons as end game was never the intention of a MMO player, but the slow journey + interaction with the community as you gain allies and enemies in a persistent world.
At least I'm happy to see Lineage 1 the 2nd most sucessful MMO being full of old school features plus real risk + reward and real pvp while several WoW clones made in the past few years burn few months after launch.
If other players don't want grinding, then how will you make your character strong? Or you just want to buy items in the item mall to make you character improve. Is that what you want? Some players don't want to waste cash for a game. So, if you don't want to spend cash, learn to grind. I think, all MMORPG that I played have grinding systems. This is were they make players to become excited for the loots and adventures they will be having. So, if you want to become strong even if you're not grinding, Play Warcraft and cheat whosyourdaddy, iseedeadpeople, greedisgood 9999, and -wtf.
It's what the early content-poor, sub-only MMOs taught us to do... and some people enjoy recreating what they once did in their youth... getting spanked, for instance ...
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Originally posted by Iselin It's what the early content-poor, sub-only MMOs taught us to do... and some people enjoy recreating what they once did in their youth... getting spanked, for instance ...
The way I look at it is that you are actually "doing something".
Most quest based games have me running around reading text, doing something a few times and then running around with more text.
That's why I like the single player elder scrolls games over, say, ESO.
I can get in a dungeon and explore and "do something" for a while. Fight, go from dungeon to dungeon exploring and discovering or reliving the dungone. But after a while doing one quest after another quest after another quest gets tiring as they don't sustain over the long haul. I'd much rather have a looooong quest with a lot of components than bite sized quests that have me doing very little but traveling and listening.
I just want to "explore the world and make my way discovering and fighting monsters" all the while progressing at a reasonable rate.
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Comments
Op thread would make more sense if it said 'you like doing that thing I don't like, really???'
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
It's partially because some MMO gamers have a different definition of 'grind' than the rest of the world. If you ask them if they felt what they were doing was enjoyable or a laborious task, they'd say the former. So, in reality, NO ONE like grinding except maybe the occasional masochist.
Long ago I defined for myself that everything in every video game is a grind. The end result is that it isn't a negative to me. That being said, that doesn't mean I have to play every aspect of a game if I choose not to. I just think grind is one of those game terms that players can use to take away enjoyment of a game.Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Grinding is something that is unpleasant, especially if it is for an extended period of time. If the person finds the activity fun, then it is not a grind to them.
Doing a dungeon crawl, leveling up with a group tackling tough mobs, raiding, I enjoy, it is not a grind. Quest based progression, doing menial tasks, now THAT is a grind, ugh. True epic quests, while it can be difficult and a pain in the ass, not a grind for me.
Even some things that I would consider a grind, can be alleviated by the reward and outcome. Grinding for rep might suck, but not so bad if I am no longer KoS to a certain faction, making things easier and adding in some RP element.
Farming atmas in ffxiv was a bit of a grind, but wasn't so bad because I did some with friends, and I tended to be extremely lucky hehe. Had my own system and it seemed to work.
I'm sure a lot of people think of their jobs as a grind, but for those who enjoy it (myself) and don't just work to pay for bills, it is not a grind. Of course even though I like my job, I would retire right now if I could, lol.
For me it depends on the grind and the game.
I dislike grinding quest hubs with a passion i dont like the running around the world delivering letters or killing 10 wolves only to go back and collect the teeth off wolves right after. and that is a " quest " ? no its lame.
The kind of grind i like is killing mobs in a world pvp setting. I enjoy grinding in a fellow with others with the chance pvp can happen.
one example of this was in age of conan, there was a area that had a wagon. you destroy the wagon and tons of mobs come running to it and we would have a huge battle to clear the mobs for great xp. and allways was the chance of getting ganked by another group wanting to grind the wagon. we would pvp for hours just for the right to have that grind spot. tons of fun.
another example of grind i dont like.
grinding mobs for hours only to get .1% xp then if you die you lose 5% xp. this is mostly the type of grind i have done in korean grind games such as silk road and archlord. those are very heavy grind games with little xp in return. didnt like that kind of grind.
If it's fun it's not a grind is it?
Doing slightly different quests all the way to max level is way more of a grind then wandering around killing stuff on my terms like EQ classic. At least to me.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Its only a grind if you dont enjoy it.. well thats how i see it. Saying that if i dont enjoy a game i dont play it.
SO OP is saying that doing something over and over can't be fun? Look at life and i am sure there are a million things you would love to repeat over and over.
If you can simply buy everything,why are you playing the game,a rpg is NOT the shopping channel nor is it supposed to be.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
seems like the cash shop mmorpg generation wants more to buy and less to play.I played Phantasy Star (one) for the Sega Master System when it came out in '88. It was my first intro to modern CRPG gaming and also my first intro to grinding. I loved it.
The one thing I noticed form that point on that made RPGs stand out is that you had to put effort (play time) and work (days of playing, grinding and fighting) into advancing the game. Prior to this people were playing Super Mario Brothers and Tetris, where you just plug it in and go; every one, every time from the same point all the time, right from the start.
Grinding is what actually made a game feel like you were somehow gaining and edge over the game. Even in Legend of Zelda, I used to grind rupees to buy the blue ring and grind mobs for bombs instead of paying for them at a store; I was cheating the system!
Same still holds true for modern MMOs. If you're playing a game where everything is available to anyone who pays for it, I feel like I might at well turn on my PS3 and play an online FPS; you pay for the DLC gun, equip it and start shooting random noobs with it... I think Battlefield 2 started that trend, and also saved your stats for progression through the ranks.
But I don't want to be playing FPS style games, I want to play RPGs and the nearly 30 years of examples I've seen with RPGs means... grinding.
Its only a grind if you arent enjoying it.
Sometimes 'grinding' can be fun. If it is within the larger context of the game.
I dont really mind 'grinding' mobs that drop rare loot.
I don't mind grinding for something i feel is worth grinding for.
In Daoc for example there was a lot of 'grinding' but knowing that you were going to enjoy the fruits of your labor made it enjoyable.
There is, for me at least, a certain pleasure involved in building up my character.
Playing games where there is no character building is just not as fun for me.
If you offer me an mmo where there is no character progression i'm likely to lose interest rather quickly.
On the other hand, if the endgame is something like WoW where you just grind raids for years and years, then yeah im definately not into that.
Grinding to grind more is bad. Grinding to do fun stuff (like doac pvp) is not only acceptable but desirable.
After WoW shitty generation, unfortunatelly, fast leveling and instanced everything once you reach the so called "end game" destroyed the social interaction of MMOs, there is no risk-reward in game either.
Before WoW, the rush to level cap in 24 hours quest chain + instanced dungeons as end game was never the intention of a MMO player, but the slow journey + interaction with the community as you gain allies and enemies in a persistent world.
At least I'm happy to see Lineage 1 the 2nd most sucessful MMO being full of old school features plus real risk + reward and real pvp while several WoW clones made in the past few years burn few months after launch.
Grinding is great if the combat is fun.
Otherwise, why is Diablo so successful?
Grinding is a cheap and lazy way to keep players on the game, they abuse skinner box systems.
Having said that, Koreans seem to love grinding with an extreme passion.
I'd be very impressed if you could suggest one game that has zero grind in it. I'd be even more impressed if you could give a top 3.
Crazkanuk
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Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Like many things in life, grinding is dependent on your likes and frame of mind when doing certain chores.
Since you can say, 'I grind mobs all day' or 'I grind quests all day'. The result is usually the same. A goal.
Be it XP for the next level, or a desired drop. If you aren't enjoying the work to get to that goal, it's easy to complain about the 'grind'.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The way I look at it is that you are actually "doing something".
Most quest based games have me running around reading text, doing something a few times and then running around with more text.
That's why I like the single player elder scrolls games over, say, ESO.
I can get in a dungeon and explore and "do something" for a while. Fight, go from dungeon to dungeon exploring and discovering or reliving the dungone. But after a while doing one quest after another quest after another quest gets tiring as they don't sustain over the long haul. I'd much rather have a looooong quest with a lot of components than bite sized quests that have me doing very little but traveling and listening.
I just want to "explore the world and make my way discovering and fighting monsters" all the while progressing at a reasonable rate.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo