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This should have been open world PvP

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Comments

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,989

    Open world pvp in Wow: Get into some good even level battles in zones ... 5 minutes later WTF stomped by several max level/BIS geared toons who consider themselves the "pvp police".

     

    There was once a time when Wow had fun OWpvp but not with today's mmo players. ESO is attempting to introduce pvp into the main world that does not interrupt players not wanting to participate while actually creating lore friendly pvp mechanics not done before in nearly any mmo. I have no idea if it will work but it sure sounds interesting.

     

    It is basically cops and robbers which is pretty much the only thing allowed in a civilized society. OWpvp in current mmos such as Wow is nothing more than ganking chaos with zero checks and balances. Zero thought was put into it other than abandoned attempts at regional objectives that still had every draw back of their normal OWpvp. A leveling toon trying to have some fun is still WTF stomp camped into submission by what is effectively mmo bullying ... and people wonder the the vast majority of mmo players want nothing to do with it.

     

    Playing a thief/enforcer in ESO provides objectives, benefits and escape options that does not interfere with normal game play all wrapped in a lore friendly manner. Heaven forbid if a developer actually put some thought into open world pvp and gave an ounce of shit about the lore of the world they created while protecting those players not wanting to participate (i.e. law abiding citizens).

    You stay sassy!

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,585
    why cant games just have a couple of pvp servers that are open pvp and if nobody plays on them then close em simple as that.
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,989
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    why cant games just have a couple of pvp servers that are open pvp and if nobody plays on them then close em simple as that.

    Some do. Many tried free for all because a shit ton of players asked for it ... then the server(s) were created and nobody played and they were shut down. Truth is players don't know what they want.

     

    ESO is a different beast though. The core game is not designed for it. It would be a mess and it NOT worth the dev's time to create one separate from their mega-server technology. It is 100% nonviable as they are running a business.

     

    ESO is built off of a single player rpg game and that is audience they want to preserve. This is entirely why they are adding a lore friendly pvp mechanic through the justice system. They do not care about the OW pvp crowd because that player has NOTHING to do with the IP. They had to engineer a war through story to even generate a place for OW pvp.

     

    You want OW pvp? Go to Cyrodiil. You can go there at level 10 (but bolstered) and there are many pve quests there. It is 100% like OW pvp expect for the easy mode ganking which appears to be the only argument behind wanting it in leveling zones.

    You stay sassy!

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906

    Originally posted by bcbully

    I hear a lot of self absorbed anti pvp people in this thread. They actually think when they are in enemy territory questing and farming then get killed the killer did it to grief them. 

     

    Again WoW has one of the least restrictive Wpvp systems in the genre. Why don't you see the boards filled with these same complaints? Why, because 99% of the complaints you read are gross exaggerations of events that may have happened to them once or twice in all their hours of gaming. Something that happened to them 10 years ago in UO.

    Stop with the poor me. I hear there are a lot of good single player rpgs with co-op now a days.

    Why do you keep using WOW as a wpvp game?  They got like 2 servers with wpvp and the other 1000 are pve servers. 

    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    why cant games just have a couple of pvp servers that are open pvp and if nobody plays on them then close em simple as that.

    This is what games did for a long time and the ratio is sad.  The PVP servers are about 1/10th the playerbase of any mmorpg.  Look at WOW they got like 20 servers and only 2 of them are PVP.  Also look at RIft they got like 10 servers and 1 of them is PVP.  Tera,Swtor all the same deal.  The vast majority of the players don't want a WPVP game.

    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    They should just add a priest of discord lol, i guess that concept is to hard for modern coders. If you dont know a priest of discord, makes it so you can open world pvp, with every one who chocies to go to the POD. That way every one gets what they want. 
  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Member Posts: 533

    The first fail is open world pvp doesn't work in a mmorpg. The player base is too immature.

    The second fail is using WoW as an example of open world pvp.

     

  • NeherunNeherun Member UncommonPosts: 280
    Originally posted by Ikeda

    I hate these PvP creeps that try to ruin a perfectly good game because they feel they have the right to "grief" me.

    Yes, there should have been a server.  Have at it.  Let all of you kill each other til you get bored with your min/maxing and leave me to my PvE entertainment.

    It's like these kids now adays don't realize how shitty stuff like UO was when you would randomly open a chest in the woods to have someone stand over your dead poisoned body and grief the hell out of you (or your ghost).

    First of all, doing what the PvP mechanics allow isn't exactly griefing. Corpse camping isn't griefing either if you have the option to respawn somewhere else. As long as the "victim" has the option of doing something else, it doesn't fit the description. Sure, for some people being outnumbered in PvP or surprised during PvE fight is frustrating, but that's just sense of self-entitlement where you should be excluded from this option, that you out of all players should be immune to this kind of behaviour.

    For TESO, the lack of PvP outdoors actually caused a lot more problems than having it in the game would have, here are few perfect examples from launch:

    - All public dungeons were infested by bots camping the boss, people had extremely hard if not impossible time claiming the proper rewards from these bossess, especially the loot.

    - Vampire / werewolf bite cartel. This was a megaserver wide issue, people sold these bites for high prices, and camped the spawns so no one else could get it for free. This was a huge issue, and I was one of the lucky ones to extort all people of their cash because they wanted to be vamp / werewolf, but couldn't get it by any other means than paying us, thanks to the squads making sure the spawns die prior to infecting anyone.

     

    You couldn't do anything regarding the matter, then what if we had open PvP? Guilds would have fought over the vampire / werewolf spawns, everyone would have slaughtered all the bots in the dungeons. Those problems would have been solved, and this game should have launched with justice system first-hand.

     

     

    image

  • wyldmagikwyldmagik Member UncommonPosts: 484

    "but couldn't get it by any other means than paying us, thanks to the squads making sure the spawns die prior to infecting anyone."

     

    ^^ see thats what makes you an ahole - if the game you were in was eve or darkfall I would say lol yes its part of the game, but in the pve game that eso is where the wwbite resides all you are doing is making yourself look like a tool and ok fair enough money also.

    Another reason why not just gaming worlds are fucked up, the mentality is beyond......

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,574
    Originally posted by FreedomBlade

    There the title says it all.

    Having an instanced area where PvP happens ruins the "world" feel and just makes the game feel like a game. Nothing like playing Skyrim or Oblivion that managed to create the feel of a world that was alive even with just NPCs.

    They really missed a trick not making this game the same as Oblivion/skyrim but just MMO. People could have really taken cities and towns and built stuff.

    As it is it just feels like an artificial world and the lore just does not fit it.

    Such a shame.

    Your not making any sense. Skyrim/Oblivion had no PvP yet the worlds felt alive?

    You've really not expressed your opinion all that well. Your coming across as someone who likes openworld PvP and tries to justify it appearance in a game by using the "it makes it feel more like a world and games without it feel artifical"

    Which you yourself have shot down with the comment in red.

     

    IMO games with OW PvP feel more like games than worlds as the punishment/consequences to killing in the world are non existent.

     

    image
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,749
    Originally posted by Soandsoso

    The first fail is open world pvp doesn't work in a mmorpg. The player base is too immature.

    The second fail is using WoW as an example of open world pvp.

     

    On most servers WoW is the usual optional arena pvp etc. but for those who enjoy a more 'unstructured' pvp experience, there are pvp servers, players only play on them if they intend to pvp, its very much a thing that players have to opt into, and yeah, there aren't many pvp servers. ESO is in a way not much different, the pvp in ESO is just as much an optional choice as it is in WoW, as you have to choose to join one of the cyrodiil campaigns in order to take part, afaik there is no requirement for you to join a cyrodiil campaign for any other reason than to join the pvp.

    The point is, is that where players have a choice about the PVP, it can work, what doesn't work, and never has yet, is where the player does not have a choice in the matter, when that happens, then the inevitable choice devolves to which other game should they play instead, which is probably yet another reason why WoW is as popular as it is.image

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,067
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I hear a lot of self absorbed anti pvp people in this thread. They actually think when they are in enemy territory questing and farming then get killed the killer did it to grief them. 

     

    Again WoW has one of the least restrictive Wpvp systems in the genre. Why don't you see the boards filled with these same complaints? Why, because 99% of the complaints you read are gross exaggerations of events that may have happened to them once or twice in all their hours of gaming. Something that happened to them 10 years ago in UO.

    Stop with the poor me. I hear there are a lot of good single player rpgs with co-op now a days.

    WoW has a less PvP servers than PvE servers and on those PvP servers there is a huge discrepancy in the Horde versus Alliance population. That seems to indicate that people enjoy open world PvP when they outnumber the other faction considerably. Shows the common cowardice that most PvP players are afflicted with. 

     

     Further do not presume to tell people what they should play when the majority of the MMORPG caters to PvE players with a choice to PvP when they 'want' seems that instead of telling the self absorbed PvE players to go play elsewhere the PvP players should play their niche games quietly instead because every time an open world PvP game like Mortal Online , Darkfall or Archage is released they end up becoming niche so perhaps this hostility towards PvE players is borne from your own frustration at not getting the huge open PvP game you think you deserve. Demographics are a funny thing but thank heavens the developers are watching the numbers.

     

    With the megaservers on ESO it is very hard to know what their true population is and if you have open world PvP that figure will probably plummet even more plus there is no realm pride when your servers are all meshed up together . What exactly are you fighting for when your servers are all mashed up in one bowl . Not the best recipe to instill pride in winning is it .

     

    Go play League of Legends or DOTA that seems right up your alley.

     

    How do you like that being stereotyped and told to quietly go play your game huh ?

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,071
    Wanting to be keft alone is not cowardness...only joining a fight because you outnumber someone is.
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,067
    Originally posted by cura
    Originally posted by kitarad
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I hear a lot of self absorbed anti pvp people in this thread. They actually think when they are in enemy territory questing and farming then get killed the killer did it to grief them. 

     

    Again WoW has one of the least restrictive Wpvp systems in the genre. Why don't you see the boards filled with these same complaints? Why, because 99% of the complaints you read are gross exaggerations of events that may have happened to them once or twice in all their hours of gaming. Something that happened to them 10 years ago in UO.

    Stop with the poor me. I hear there are a lot of good single player rpgs with co-op now a days.

    WoW has a less PvP servers than PvE servers and on those PvP servers there is a huge discrepancy in the Horde versus Alliance population. That seems to indicate that people enjoy open world PvP when they outnumber the other faction considerably. Shows the common cowardice that most PvP players are afflicted with. 

     [...]

    So it seems the outnumbered side players are some masochists.

    If pvp playeras are such cowards, pve'rs have to be below the scale of cowardness.

    Really dont want to be part of that dabate again but your hatred cloud your judgement.

    cura should have read the whole post my dear I was responding to the prejudiced comment with my own version of it . My last sentence should have been a clue. Ahh well sarcasm never translates well I guess no worries.

     

    As for allowing hatred to cloud my judgment let me say frankly I have never ever been in a position to hate any open world PvP game because I always play a game where I have a choice to PvP like battlegrounds. There is no hatred but the post I was responding to was attempting to ridicule and marginalize PvE players so I responded in kind. Never nice when the shoe is on the other foot is it ?

  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 Member UncommonPosts: 264

    Can`t be done... studies have shown internet trolls are the douchebags/pedophiles and generally bad people in real life... take this thought further:

     

    An open PvP game allows them to grief all they can out of other players.... and you know you will have people camping a spot for 8h just for the opportunity to grief others.

     

    That is the reason nobody does it, humans are too mean and internet anonymity just reveals the worst sides in some people to the point where its a grief fest and not PvP.

     

    The fact that you kill(are better) than that other human playing... its a feeling many don`t get at all in real life(where they are not worth much/look like much) so they  will do anything to get it in the game including exploiting or well anything. Most developers don`t want to touch that... some tried but their game were never that popular mostly because of the balancing, exploits and other crap you just can`t balance in a MMO.

     

    That`s why games like LOL, DOTA, World of Tanks are so popular, they are PvP games BUT in an arena with balanced terrain and teams and mostly balanced heroes/tanks whatever. It may not be perfect but its a lot more balanced vs a MMO where you can have 3v1 or gear with a lot better stats...

    Maybe some day developers will know how to make it like you want and keep it fair/fun/balanced, but right now they don`t so they don`t bother with it... 

  • EntinerintEntinerint Member UncommonPosts: 868

    I have to agree with the OP. I'm loving the game, don't get me wrong but...it would have been so much more interesting with OWPvP.

     

    Even the type of PvP SWG had that was faction based and people could opt out by choosing neutrality.  That would have been enough for me.  But it should have been able to happen anywhere.  Open up the zones allow passage for anyone, anywhere, actively sign up for your arming and fight it out.

     

    We can only hope the justice system lives up to the hype.

  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,700
    Originally posted by kitarad
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I hear a lot of self absorbed anti pvp people in this thread. They actually think when they are in enemy territory questing and farming then get killed the killer did it to grief them. 

     

    Again WoW has one of the least restrictive Wpvp systems in the genre. Why don't you see the boards filled with these same complaints? Why, because 99% of the complaints you read are gross exaggerations of events that may have happened to them once or twice in all their hours of gaming. Something that happened to them 10 years ago in UO.

    Stop with the poor me. I hear there are a lot of good single player rpgs with co-op now a days.

    WoW has a less PvP servers than PvE servers and on those PvP servers there is a huge discrepancy in the Horde versus Alliance population. That seems to indicate that people enjoy open world PvP when they outnumber the other faction considerably. Shows the common cowardice that most PvP players are afflicted with. 

     

     Further do not presume to tell people what they should play when the majority of the MMORPG caters to PvE players with a choice to PvP when they 'want' seems that instead of telling the self absorbed PvE players to go play elsewhere the PvP players should play their niche games quietly instead because every time an open world PvP game like Mortal Online , Darkfall or Archage is released they end up becoming niche so perhaps this hostility towards PvE players is borne from your own frustration at not getting the huge open PvP game you think you deserve. Demographics are a funny thing but thank heavens the developers are watching the numbers.

     

    With the megaservers on ESO it is very hard to know what their true population is and if you have open world PvP that figure will probably plummet even more plus there is no realm pride when your servers are all meshed up together . What exactly are you fighting for when your servers are all mashed up in one bowl . Not the best recipe to instill pride in winning is it .

     

    Go play League of Legends or DOTA that seems right up your alley.

     

    How do you like that being stereotyped and told to quietly go play your game huh ?

    anti-pvp =/= pve

     

    The majority of players enjoy both to some degree. Some leaning towards pve, some leaning towards pvp and this is how they identify themselves. 

     

    It's the anti-pvp who makes up stories or recants long past experiences in UO. They cite games like mortal online or darkfall who no one plays, not even pvprs because they are bad games. Hell in MO people run around naked in fear of losing there gear! Terrible game design. Yet those same anti-pvprs ignore the success of WoW which has Wpvp everywhere or Age of Wushu which has such harsh penalties for murder that makes it a civil FFA world. 

     

    These anti-pvprs would be better served playing an online single player with an auction house and co-op instead of trying to hold back the mmorpg genre with there extreme views.

  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Member CommonPosts: 682
    Originally posted by Soandsoso
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by kitarad
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I hear a lot of self absorbed anti pvp people in this thread. They actually think when they are in enemy territory questing and farming then get killed the killer did it to grief them. 

     

    Again WoW has one of the least restrictive Wpvp systems in the genre. Why don't you see the boards filled with these same complaints? Why, because 99% of the complaints you read are gross exaggerations of events that may have happened to them once or twice in all their hours of gaming. Something that happened to them 10 years ago in UO.

    Stop with the poor me. I hear there are a lot of good single player rpgs with co-op now a days.

    WoW has a less PvP servers than PvE servers and on those PvP servers there is a huge discrepancy in the Horde versus Alliance population. That seems to indicate that people enjoy open world PvP when they outnumber the other faction considerably. Shows the common cowardice that most PvP players are afflicted with. 

     

     Further do not presume to tell people what they should play when the majority of the MMORPG caters to PvE players with a choice to PvP when they 'want' seems that instead of telling the self absorbed PvE players to go play elsewhere the PvP players should play their niche games quietly instead because every time an open world PvP game like Mortal Online , Darkfall or Archage is released they end up becoming niche so perhaps this hostility towards PvE players is borne from your own frustration at not getting the huge open PvP game you think you deserve. Demographics are a funny thing but thank heavens the developers are watching the numbers.

     

    With the megaservers on ESO it is very hard to know what their true population is and if you have open world PvP that figure will probably plummet even more plus there is no realm pride when your servers are all meshed up together . What exactly are you fighting for when your servers are all mashed up in one bowl . Not the best recipe to instill pride in winning is it .

     

    Go play League of Legends or DOTA that seems right up your alley.

     

    How do you like that being stereotyped and told to quietly go play your game huh ?

    anti-pvp =/= pve

     

    The majority of players enjoy both to some degree. Some leaning towards pve, some leaning towards pvp and this is how they identify themselves. 

     

    It's the anti-pvp who makes up stories or recants long past experiences in UO. They cite games like mortal online or darkfall who no one plays, not even pvprs because they are bad games. Hell in MO people run around naked in fear of losing there gear! Terrible game design. Yet those same anti-pvprs ignore the success of WoW which has Wpvp everywhere or Age of Wushu which has such harsh penalties for murder that makes it a civil FFA world. 

     

    These anti-pvprs would be better served playing an online single player with an auction house and co-op instead of trying to hold back the mmorpg genre with there extreme views.

    Dude, you can troll much better than this, I have seen it.

    Yeah, he seems off his game today.

    Maybe the tryptophan hasn't worn off yet.

    I'm sure he'll be back to his usual annoying self in a few hours.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,312
    Originally posted by Ikeda

    I hate these PvP creeps that try to ruin a perfectly good game because they feel they have the right to "grief" me.

    Yes, there should have been a server.  Have at it.  Let all of you kill each other til you get bored with your min/maxing and leave me to my PvE entertainment.

    It's like these kids now adays don't realize how shitty stuff like UO was when you would randomly open a chest in the woods to have someone stand over your dead poisoned body and grief the hell out of you (or your ghost).

    And its dev's that listen to them that amaze me the most. The big reason why this genre is going down the toitet is people like the Op and the Hardcore players wanting to turn mmo's into gear grinding second jobs. The OP is looking for more games to fail just like the ones out there that have what he's looking for and why isn't he playing them is the question. Nothing worse than people asking for more failed game mechanics put in games.  A game company putting open world pvp and lots of raids in their game won't see growth. AA and Wildstar are real proof of this.

  • neumneum Member UncommonPosts: 143
    The best thing about the PoD was getting him to fight guards or the monk guild in Qeynos.

  • chakalakachakalaka Member UncommonPosts: 291
    I agree with you OP. And with the way the game was designed initially I would have really enjoyed this!
  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,864

    I think ZOS made the right call with their current main RvR map intsead of OWPvP.  They followed the queues of other games like DAoC and GW2 and their is no shame with that.  They did, however, over estimate how populated the game would get by releasing too many Cyrodil servers or whatever they called them.  Most them ended up being ghost towns or dominated by one faction.  I think the only one that actually had PVP as they planned for was in Wabbajack.

    I'm curious if they plan on adding more maps to RvR in though because just the one, no matter how big it is, will still get stale eventually. 

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • ValatheusValatheus Member UncommonPosts: 30
    Originally posted by rodingo

    I'm curious if they plan on adding more maps to RvR in though because just the one, no matter how big it is, will still get stale eventually. 

    Imperial City.

  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,700
    Originally posted by rodingo

    I think ZOS made the right call with their current main RvR map intsead of OWPvP.  They followed the queues of other games like DAoC and GW2 and their is no shame with that.  They did, however, over estimate how populated the game would get by releasing too many Cyrodil servers or whatever they called them.  Most them ended up being ghost towns or dominated by one faction.  I think the only one that actually had PVP as they planned for was in Wabbajack.

    I'm curious if they plan on adding more maps to RvR in though because just the one, no matter how big it is, will still get stale eventually. 

    No matter the queue everyone wanted to play on the same server. No matter how much lag was caused. All that mattered was playing on the server with 3 locks. 

     

    I don't think we will see another AvAvA area until an expansion, if ever. That would be redesigning a 1/3 of the game world. There will be more added to Cyrodiil like the Imperial city.  The shear size of the map makes it so that deep enemy territory still feels foreign. I haven't heard anyone say that they are bored with Cyrodiil yet. 

  • askdabossaskdaboss Member UncommonPosts: 631

    Open world PvP would have been great I think.

    Open world PvP is great, most implementations are poor. When 90% of MMOs quickly tuck some PvP on top of a core PvE game, it's no wonder why usually PvP is a failure and some people complain PvP is only gankers and cowards.

    Most businesses who invest money in a AAA project will attempt to minimize the risk of failure. Thus you get a stale market with few novel ideas... And it sells, so good on them.

     

    Still it annoys me that most players have integrated the fact that every new MMO PvP system has to be exactly like the previous failures... And that some of the issues associated with an open world PvP game will never be solved. It seems a little short sighted to me.

  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,738
    OWPvP would have immediately meant they put off about 60-70% of their target MMO audience who do NOT PvP.  OWPvP would have meant an "Archage" or "Age of Wushu" kind of BS where grief runs rampant.  OWPvP does not work when there is no penalty other than respawning specifically to the PK'er.
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