If you compare content from WoW to ESO,GW2, EQ2,SWTOR and alike today not vanilla WoW, what things are more fun in WoW than in those games, questing?,crafting?, world design?, challenge, things like that.
Are there things in WoW that are not present in those games that makes it fun?, and if you say WoW does things better then those games please explain what you mean by "better".
Just genuin interested about these things.
The thing that keeps me coming back to WoW every couple years is Blizzard's talent in world design. They're undeniably one of the best if not the best. What Blizzard completely fails at, is keeping all that great world design relevant.
Blizzard's tech in making the world seem seamless is very impressive as well.
You are asking a loaded question. I have played all the games you list and all of them I have played seriously. I also can say I liked them all. 10 years in WoW (still playing) 8.5 years in Eq2 (it was hard to leave), SWTOR since release (still playing), GW2 since release (still playing), ESO played for about 3 months liked the game very much but simply did not have enough time to devote to it. I try to keep to two mmos at a time. So now it is WoW as main game, SWTOR as my second, and I dabble around in GW2.
All these games offer different experiences and do different things really well. SWTOR it is the story and the game presentation and it is Star Wars!. EQ2 huge world lots to do and explore, good crafting and great housing. However it is feeling very dated and to much zoning. GW2 great art style, good for solo play and it is buy to play. ESO beautiful graphics fun combat but lacks the deep variety to keep you playing for a long period of time. But all these games are good and top mmos I would recommend them to anyone.
This leaves WoW. In my opinion the king of the hill. Huge world to explore ton's of things to do. Easy to play hard to master so it offers a good experience for the new player but challenges for harder core players. Great group play, some of the most fun group action in my experience. While the look is cartoony the art style is fantastic and the world is very alive. The best description for WoW is polish! The game looks and plays exceptionally well. It is the total package. Saying that does not mean I think it is for everyone or perfect. However if you were to pick one game listed by the OP I would say your first pick should be WoW. I can list a huge variety of specifics about what makes it a good mmo today but simple put it is a work of art and a joy to play. Blizzard made a wonderful experience and I for one hope to be around for it's 20 years anniversary.
I have got to disagree with you on something fundamental.
Wow is easy to learn and easy to master. You don't even need to learn how to character build because you can inspect anyone who is beating you in pve or pvp and just copy their build.
The game is super casual, it has some good things left about it but it is most certainly easy to learn and easy to master which is a major flaw in the game.
They have deliberately made it that way so that the difference between the best and worst players is minor, they don't want the game to be competitive.
Btw I played on a pvp server, it wasn't a gank fest.
For all of wows flaws in the current gen, its pvp servers are lowest on the scale behind major problems like the non optional inspect build ability and the lack of competition due to easy to learn, easy to master gameplay.
Wow does not cater for competitive gamers like me and if I want to play a non competitive game, I can go play any single player rpg.
90% of the time while questing solo on a pvp server you were being ganked? You sure you want to double down on this statement? Why not just say you are an anti-pvp person who grossly exaggerated you original statement.
I'm a PVE player that occasionally plays on PVP server because i have friends that prefer open world PVP
when i say 90% gankfest -- i am referring to the *style of PVP* i experienced when solo questing (while leveling)
i was often left alone, but if and when i encountered PVP, it was an overpowered ganker looking for lone targets
Gameplay is basically the main thing. Few can compare to the fluidity and responsiveness of WoW's combat and controls. The combat is simple to learn and use, but still allows for a surprising amount of depth and finesse. You can play for years and still learn new tricks, especially with how Blizzard tends to shake up everything every expansion, which revives the "new" feeling of the game. The game is just downright fun to play, and for an MMO where you spend a majority of your time in combat in one way or another, your combat has to be able to hold up your game. I've played the game off and on since release, and every time I resub and just move around in the world, I remember why.
I feel some other games have improved upon various features of WoW, but WoW just has more features, and all of them are also very good. WoW also goes out of its way to provide content for many different types of players. Top difficulty Raids for instance are still brutally difficult and challenge even the very best of players while also providing easy content like LFR for people that don't have the time to devote to raiding. In essence no matter who you are you can probably find something fun to do in WoW.
Also one last point, Blizzard is ruthless in its competitive design strategy. Any game that comes out that tries to rival WoW will usually have a particular feature or features that they use to try and differentiate themselves from WoW. Blizzard however is constantly watching the market, and quietly starts implementing their own similar feature, but with a lot more polish.
Btw I played on a pvp server, it wasn't a gank fest.
For all of wows flaws in the current gen, its pvp servers are lowest on the scale behind major problems like the non optional inspect build ability and the lack of competition due to easy to learn, easy to master gameplay.
Wow does not cater for competitive gamers like me and if I want to play a non competitive game, I can go play any single player rpg.
Then why are you posting in a forum dedicated to WoW? Shouldn't you be streaming yourself being awesome in a game catered to competitive players?
WoW has Wpvp everywhere. That is the biggest difference outside of polish.
It's not great but if you get sick of BGs and Arenas, you can go look around for something to get into. This means a lot. I think other recent mmorpgs have hurt their product by listening to the very vocal anti-pvp minority.
I'm not talking about the casual pvpr or the person who preferes pve. I'm talking about the ones who go to the forums and make up horror stories based on irrational fear of what could possibly happen.
any mmo with PVP servers offer similar functionality
I can only speak from my experiences in WOW / RIFT
my experiences on their PVP servers (while questing to level) - it was 90% a gankfest
while questing alone, being stomped on by someone 10+ levels higher than myself
Are you saying this is what happens in WoW and RIFT? 90% gankfest? I respect a lot of the work you do here on the forums, but this is a flat out lie. At best a gross exaggeration.
These are the made up numbers and events propagated by the vocal minority of anti-pvprs that I was just speaking of, that you decided to remove from your quote of me.
edit- You are saying 90% of the time you quested in WoW on a pvp server you were ganked? Did I misunderstand you?
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by kitarad
The operative words were "questing alone" then it is highly believable that it would have been a 90 % gankfest if you are questing alone. There are people roaming around looking for lone players and this is true.
when questing alone if she got ganked it was a 90 % of the time a gankfest meaning either a group or a person many levels above her killed her.
correct -- i was referring to being ganked while solo questing
90% of the time while questing solo on a pvp server you were being ganked? You sure you want to double down on this statement? Why not just say you are an anti-pvp person who grossly exaggerated you original statement.
sorry for the semi-derail. I'm done here.
Why don't you pull your head out of yer @$$? Ok, look that was a harsh and inappropriate thing for me to say. What I should say is that you should never question what someone has to say about their own experience. You, and only you, know what you have been through, and how you remember and feel about it. You are the sole authority on your experience of life. If anyone wants to know what you have been through, or what you think, they need to ask, and to listen.
Open world PvP = gankfest.
Zergs, and level differences make it really bad. A game with open world pvp has to be purpose built for it, EvE does this well. With large safer zones that give a player much to do, a complex system that enables lowbies in frigates to take down battleships, and a skill system that enables advancement that other players cannot disrupt, EvE has key features needed to make open world PvP work. Darkfall, especially old DFO but DFUW as well, does not.
Subs went up when Trammel came out, not down. It was Age of Shadows, and 3D mmos, that cut UO off from growth.
Don't get angry at him, it's just annoying when people throw out arbitrary, completely inaccurate numbers. It's like people that say things like, "It literally took my 1 billion years to level my character". It's highly unlikely (although I'd rather say literally impossible) for you to be ganked 90% of the time. You can be ganked very often, but 90% of the time would be tough, especially considering that even if they killed you every time you spawned, you'd probably be spending at least half your time running back to your body.
Btw I played on a pvp server, it wasn't a gank fest.
For all of wows flaws in the current gen, its pvp servers are lowest on the scale behind major problems like the non optional inspect build ability and the lack of competition due to easy to learn, easy to master gameplay.
Wow does not cater for competitive gamers like me and if I want to play a non competitive game, I can go play any single player rpg.
Then why are you posting in a forum dedicated to WoW? Shouldn't you be streaming yourself being awesome in a game catered to competitive players?
Because WOW attracts the most ferocious of haters. They don't even play the game and yet can't stop talking about it. Such obsession only few games can induce into players.
Don't get angry at him, it's just annoying when people throw out arbitrary, completely inaccurate numbers. It's like people that say things like, "It literally took my 1 billion years to level my character". It's highly unlikely (although I'd rather say literally impossible) for you to be ganked 90% of the time. You can be ganked very often, but 90% of the time would be tough, especially considering that even if they killed you every time you spawned, you'd probably be spending at least half your time running back to your body.
as i later clarified
IF i encountered PVP while solo questing, it was a 90% the time about ganking (during solo questing)
most the time --- no one cares if you are solo questing and don't bother you
but i rarely saw anyone wanting a comparable 1 vs 1 match on a PVP server with players doing solo quests
90% of the time while questing solo on a pvp server you were being ganked? You sure you want to double down on this statement? Why not just say you are an anti-pvp person who grossly exaggerated you original statement.
I'm a PVE player that occasionally plays on PVP server because i have friends that prefer open world PVP
when i say 90% gankfest -- i am referring to the *style of PVP* i experienced when solo questing (while leveling)
i was often left alone, but if and when i encountered PVP, it was an overpowered ganker looking for lone targets
I think this is the inevitable state of open world pvp. People do not tend to start fights they don't think they can win, so it makes sense that the type of people who set out to find people to fight, do everything in their power to ensure their own success. Even if there were a level cap that forcibly prevented higher level players from fighting lower level players, I would think the people that still initiated combat would find some other way to gain advantage. Not to mention the more you do PVP the better you get at it. Most people that you have a reasonable chance of beating (even if they get the first strike advantage) tend to leave you alone. Often i'll be questing for some time alongside an opposing player, and then suddenly the turn on me when more of their faction show up.
Personally I enjoy the sense of unease and tension in these scenarios. You constantly have to read the actions of other players, and attempt to predict what they might do. Positioning is also far more important than people realize. Choosing mobs in the back of the questing area, standing so that you have a good view of the main entrances, pulling conservatively as to not overextend yourself, and present too tempting of a target.
What makes PVP really fun is to get better yourself, and then turn the tides on the would be gankers. Or if victory is impossible have some sort of escape plan ready, to escape and embarrass your would be attacker. I do understand that this type of pvp isn't for everyone, world pvp is never balanced, and the sides are never equal, but sometimes you can overcome the odds and it feels awesome. Also returning to a low level area after you get to max and get geared, and then hunt down all the gankers is extremely rewarding, as these players are usually not used to an even battle.
Personally I hold no ill opinion of people who want to play on PVE servers. There's a sense of honor in wanting to only face players of equal measure, where skill (and gear) alone decide the outcome. Also being interrupted when you are trying to do something can be frustrating. Also without the PVP element you can do things you might risk otherwise, such as mass pulling a quest area to aoe everything down.
bcbully and crazkanuk cannot understand what you mean by 90 %.
She is not saying 90% of the time she played she was ganked while solo questing. She is saying 'when' she got ganked it was a gankfest. Can you two understand the difference or not ?
She is of course not saying 90% of the time she was getting ganked that is quite a hyberbole.
Perhaps it would clarify things if she said when I was solo questing and I encountered PvP it was 90% a gankfest. Does that help ?
Presentation. This has always been one of blizzards specialties
Its got a great game world. Azeroth is both fun and interesting, something that MMOs like Rift lack. Part of this goes back to presentation.
Accessibility. This is another big reason.
Combat. It still has the best combat of its kind.
PvP. of all the games that are mainly PvE but have some PvP as well, WoW has the most fun PvP. A lot of this is because of the combat as well as the classes.
Raiding. It still has some of the best tuned, most challenging raiding out there, and it also has stupid easy, annoying raiding for people that want that sort of thing too. One of the most memorably difficult non WoW raids was Rift's Akylios raid, and WoW's current boss at the time, Heroic Ragnaros, was just as difficult.
It of course has some glaring issues (most notably a severe lack of group content challenge), but it does a lot of things better than its competition.
I tried WOW today, after about 6 years of not playing it. I only lasted a couple of hours sadly. So much has changed, which isnt a bad thing it just feels empty and bland with 'pick 10 things' constantly at the beginning.
The graphical updates of the characters does look much better though.
bcbully and crazkanuk cannot understand what you mean by 90 %.
She is not saying 90% of the time she played she was ganked while solo questing. She is saying 'when' she got ganked it was a gankfest. Can you two understand the difference or not ?
She is of course not saying 90% of the time she was getting ganked that is quite a hyberbole.
Perhaps it would clarify things if she said when I was solo questing and I encountered PvP it was 90% a gankfest. Does that help ?
Yeah, and I think that if that's the case, it's actually pretty accurate. I'm almost never ganked when in a group. However, if I'm running around on my own, someone will inevitably camp me. It's just a matter of time. So I'll /dance, /cry, /rude till the cows come home. Or I'll hop on an alt that's a higher level than they are and camp them, lol.
WoW has Wpvp everywhere. That is the biggest difference outside of polish.
any mmo with PVP servers offer similar functionality
I can only speak from my experiences in WOW / RIFT
my experiences on their PVP servers (while questing to level) - it was 90% a gankfest
while questing alone, being stomped on by someone 10+ levels higher than myself
Are you saying this is what happens in WoW and RIFT? 90% gankfest? I respect a lot of the work you do here on the forums, but this is a flat out lie. At best a gross exaggeration.
These are the made up numbers and events propagated by the vocal minority of anti-pvprs that I was just speaking of, that you decided to remove from your quote of me.
edit- You are saying 90% of the time you quested in WoW on a pvp server you were ganked? Did I misunderstand you?
Sorry to derail the thread again, but I have to ask Nadia, what the hell is your point??
Someone 10 levels higher stomped on you when you were alone? Geezus! I never saw that coming!
Hell I don't PvP, but I f I was 10 levels higher and saw you questing alone, I would stomp on you too.
Oh hello Nadia, I see you are 10 levels below me and questing alone. I guess I will just let you go about your business, since this would be a terribly unfair fight. Have a nice day!
I will never understand the PvP mentality.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
WoW has Wpvp everywhere. That is the biggest difference outside of polish.
any mmo with PVP servers offer similar functionality
I can only speak from my experiences in WOW / RIFT
my experiences on their PVP servers (while questing to level) - it was 90% a gankfest
while questing alone, being stomped on by someone 10+ levels higher than myself
Are you saying this is what happens in WoW and RIFT? 90% gankfest? I respect a lot of the work you do here on the forums, but this is a flat out lie. At best a gross exaggeration.
These are the made up numbers and events propagated by the vocal minority of anti-pvprs that I was just speaking of, that you decided to remove from your quote of me.
edit- You are saying 90% of the time you quested in WoW on a pvp server you were ganked? Did I misunderstand you?
Sorry to derail the thread again, but I have to ask Nadia, what the hell is your point??
Someone 10 levels higher stomped on you when you were alone? Geezus! I never saw that coming!
Hell I don't PvP, but I f I was 10 levels higher and saw you questing alone, I would stomp on you too.
Oh hello Nadia, I see you are 10 levels below me and questing alone. I guess I will just let you go about your business, since this would be a terribly unfair fight. Have a nice day!
I will never understand the PvP mentality.
It's not the general PvP mentality, imo. There is a type of person who really just enjoys making people suffer in-game. I'll have people camp me for 15 or 20 minutes sometimes. Longer if I didn't lose interest in getting ganked. I really don't get it either. Less skilled players? Looking to assert themselves as mighty?
If you compare content from WoW to ESO,GW2, EQ2,SWTOR and alike today not vanilla WoW, what things are more fun in WoW than in those games, questing?,crafting?, world design?, challenge, things like that.
Are there things in WoW that are not present in those games that makes it fun?, and if you say WoW does things better then those games please explain what you mean by "better".
Just genuin interested about these things.
Why do you think they do it? What are your thoughts on the matter? Why do you want to know?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
If you compare content from WoW to ESO,GW2, EQ2,SWTOR and alike today not vanilla WoW, what things are more fun in WoW than in those games, questing?,crafting?, world design?, challenge, things like that.
Are there things in WoW that are not present in those games that makes it fun?, and if you say WoW does things better then those games please explain what you mean by "better".
Just genuin interested about these things.
well, of cors i can just talk for myself here, but:
* solid and interesting story line
* nice and fluent combat (maybe WoW's biggest plus, no other game EVER reached that reactivity)
* nice world layout / -design
* amazing engine (maybe the same as point 2 and 3, but it HAS to be included here to make it more obvious)
and it's biggest plus
* my guild playing it
* good endgame (yes, i love raiding, get over it)
i play WoW since it's release in the same guild, on the same server and within the same 2 characters (my guild needed a reliable tank, so i switched from rogue to monk lately), getting those people to move to another game takes some SERIOUS work and energy i couldn't be arsed investing so far.
while i've beem playing WoW, i tested out most of the other mmos, including wildstar, guildwars 2, TSW, ToR, Aion and some others, but NONE of those could offer a at least similiar gaming experience to WoW.
whatever blizz does, they do it perfect. you don't like it? well, hf playing those other mmos
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Sorry to derail the thread again, but I have to ask Nadia, what the hell is your point??
It's not the general PvP mentality, imo. There is a type of person who really just enjoys making people suffer in-game. I'll have people camp me for 15 or 20 minutes sometimes. Longer if I didn't lose interest in getting ganked. I really don't get it either. Less skilled players? Looking to assert themselves as mighty?
i apologize for the detraction - you are correct, it's an offtopic discussion
I also agree that ganking is not the general PVP mentality
i should have left my comment as
any mmo with PVP servers offers similar functionality to WOWs wpvp
If you compare content from WoW to ESO,GW2, EQ2,SWTOR and alike today not vanilla WoW, what things are more fun in WoW than in those games, questing?,crafting?, world design?, challenge, things like that.
Are there things in WoW that are not present in those games that makes it fun?, and if you say WoW does things better then those games please explain what you mean by "better".
Just genuin interested about these things.
Virtually everything. Where I see others much better is only in two areas. Fully voiced dialogs in questing from Swtor (but otherwise great questing in Wow) and virtually limitless multiple builds from Rift (that "dual" spec we waited for so long is ... just better then nothing).
Only thing that disappointed me really a lot, is that abomination of new models I hope they redo from scratch. Otherwise will stay indifinetively with old models. We all wanted more resolution not TOTAL CHANGE TO VERY LOOK OF OUR ALTS! I would not bother so much if I would start all my alts from scratch.
WoW's level of polish is pretty much unmatched in the genre. Blizz doesn't innovate very much, but they also do not release shoddy products. They just make sure that what they have is working very well and won't break - a far cry from most mmorpgs.
If you compare content from WoW to ESO,GW2, EQ2,SWTOR and alike today not vanilla WoW, what things are more fun in WoW than in those games, questing?,crafting?, world design?, challenge, things like that.
Are there things in WoW that are not present in those games that makes it fun?, and if you say WoW does things better then those games please explain what you mean by "better".
Just genuin interested about these things.
well, of cors i can just talk for myself here, but:
* solid and interesting story line
* nice and fluent combat (maybe WoW's biggest plus, no other game EVER reached that reactivity)
* nice world layout / -design
* amazing engine (maybe the same as point 2 and 3, but it HAS to be included here to make it more obvious)
and it's biggest plus
* my guild playing it
* good endgame (yes, i love raiding, get over it)
i play WoW since it's release in the same guild, on the same server and within the same 2 characters (my guild needed a reliable tank, so i switched from rogue to monk lately), getting those people to move to another game takes some SERIOUS work and energy i couldn't be arsed investing so far.
while i've beem playing WoW, i tested out most of the other mmos, including wildstar, guildwars 2, TSW, ToR, Aion and some others, but NONE of those could offer a at least similiar gaming experience to WoW.
whatever blizz does, they do it perfect. you don't like it? well, hf playing those other mmos
I m with you 100%
I play WoW since start and the last 5 years i m in the same guild. In the meantime i played Warhammer-AoC-Rift-SWTOR-GW2-WildStar. My biggest problem in these games was that after a couple of months, almost everyone i knew in game quits. Same with ESO. I never bought it, but after a month or so 90% of my guild quit it also.
I m not saying these games are bad or worse than wow or anything else. Some of them loved them, but tbh WoW offers some things that most of them cant and first of all stability.
Stability in the overall population. Even when pop drops under 7m its still a huge number.
Stability for your guild and friends as you always will find ppl to recruit and friends to play.
Stability about the future of the game. It successfully exists and it will continue for long and it will also remain p2p for long too.
I can say many more things about wow, but having ALWAYS friends to play with, without changing guilds like shirts, are some very important reasons to play the game.
Btw the only game i feel the same as wow is EvE.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Better polish, better quality, more quantity... Theme Park wise, there's still no other game coming even remotely close to WOW.
I am with Picard.
Add the above mentioned stability in population and friends play and you nailed it.
You know these days when I want to play an mmorpg I play WOW and am done with seeking alternatives.
That's not to say I don't love these RPG games, but you really can only play ONE mmorpg decently and I lost enough time by trying others over the past 8 years.
I divide my time now between WOW and some other games (NON mmorpg's) like Fantasy boardgames, some card games and very few selected console and PC games mostly with a complete different theme than WOW, to avoid being burnt out by any game really (Sherlock Holmes or Heavy Rain come to mind).
I have been aging lately and I simply attach much more value to games that last, whatever the platform of board, card or computer games.
And frankly Blizzard, while also making games I completely dislike, is the old Avalon Hill or Fantasy Flight of PC games like forever. It is a pity they limit themsleves to "gamer games" avoiding at all price historical or realistic games.
I don't agree with the theme parc of Jean Luc though, I think it is silly to talk about theme parcs, you simply have good games and bad ones.
For me it's the MIX of lots of GOOD (not best) elements:
1). STORY
The Warcraft universe is expansive and well put together. The story in TSW is heaps better, yes, but that game doesn't have the player base to support gameplay.
2). PLAYERS
I can find a group for a dungeon in 10 seconds...awesome. I do admit I play a healer/tank tho, so I might be biased. I will admit that healing in SWTOR is aslo quick-queue for example (not so if you're a tank). FFXIV is the other way around!
3). DUNGEONS
WoW has very good (dare I say "the best") dungeons and raids. And I'm all for that. I don't group up when in the Open world, but 90% of my game time is dungeons and raids, so...yeah...Wildstar has equally good, sometimes better, raids/dungeons but there is no one to play them with (or there are soooooo many bugs it's stupid).
4). POLISH/no game-breaking bugs
What would you expect from such an old game? There are very few bugs, and no game-breaking stuff (and a lot of fixes come really quick).
Comments
The thing that keeps me coming back to WoW every couple years is Blizzard's talent in world design. They're undeniably one of the best if not the best. What Blizzard completely fails at, is keeping all that great world design relevant.
Blizzard's tech in making the world seem seamless is very impressive as well.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I have got to disagree with you on something fundamental.
Wow is easy to learn and easy to master. You don't even need to learn how to character build because you can inspect anyone who is beating you in pve or pvp and just copy their build.
The game is super casual, it has some good things left about it but it is most certainly easy to learn and easy to master which is a major flaw in the game.
They have deliberately made it that way so that the difference between the best and worst players is minor, they don't want the game to be competitive.
Btw I played on a pvp server, it wasn't a gank fest.
For all of wows flaws in the current gen, its pvp servers are lowest on the scale behind major problems like the non optional inspect build ability and the lack of competition due to easy to learn, easy to master gameplay.
Wow does not cater for competitive gamers like me and if I want to play a non competitive game, I can go play any single player rpg.
I'm a PVE player that occasionally plays on PVP server because i have friends that prefer open world PVP
when i say 90% gankfest -- i am referring to the *style of PVP* i experienced when solo questing (while leveling)
i was often left alone, but if and when i encountered PVP, it was an overpowered ganker looking for lone targets
EQ2 fan sites
Gameplay is basically the main thing. Few can compare to the fluidity and responsiveness of WoW's combat and controls. The combat is simple to learn and use, but still allows for a surprising amount of depth and finesse. You can play for years and still learn new tricks, especially with how Blizzard tends to shake up everything every expansion, which revives the "new" feeling of the game. The game is just downright fun to play, and for an MMO where you spend a majority of your time in combat in one way or another, your combat has to be able to hold up your game. I've played the game off and on since release, and every time I resub and just move around in the world, I remember why.
I feel some other games have improved upon various features of WoW, but WoW just has more features, and all of them are also very good. WoW also goes out of its way to provide content for many different types of players. Top difficulty Raids for instance are still brutally difficult and challenge even the very best of players while also providing easy content like LFR for people that don't have the time to devote to raiding. In essence no matter who you are you can probably find something fun to do in WoW.
Also one last point, Blizzard is ruthless in its competitive design strategy. Any game that comes out that tries to rival WoW will usually have a particular feature or features that they use to try and differentiate themselves from WoW. Blizzard however is constantly watching the market, and quietly starts implementing their own similar feature, but with a lot more polish.
Then why are you posting in a forum dedicated to WoW? Shouldn't you be streaming yourself being awesome in a game catered to competitive players?
Don't get angry at him, it's just annoying when people throw out arbitrary, completely inaccurate numbers. It's like people that say things like, "It literally took my 1 billion years to level my character". It's highly unlikely (although I'd rather say literally impossible) for you to be ganked 90% of the time. You can be ganked very often, but 90% of the time would be tough, especially considering that even if they killed you every time you spawned, you'd probably be spending at least half your time running back to your body.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Because WOW attracts the most ferocious of haters. They don't even play the game and yet can't stop talking about it. Such obsession only few games can induce into players.
as i later clarified
IF i encountered PVP while solo questing, it was a 90% the time about ganking (during solo questing)
most the time --- no one cares if you are solo questing and don't bother you
but i rarely saw anyone wanting a comparable 1 vs 1 match on a PVP server with players doing solo quests
EQ2 fan sites
I think this is the inevitable state of open world pvp. People do not tend to start fights they don't think they can win, so it makes sense that the type of people who set out to find people to fight, do everything in their power to ensure their own success. Even if there were a level cap that forcibly prevented higher level players from fighting lower level players, I would think the people that still initiated combat would find some other way to gain advantage. Not to mention the more you do PVP the better you get at it. Most people that you have a reasonable chance of beating (even if they get the first strike advantage) tend to leave you alone. Often i'll be questing for some time alongside an opposing player, and then suddenly the turn on me when more of their faction show up.
Personally I enjoy the sense of unease and tension in these scenarios. You constantly have to read the actions of other players, and attempt to predict what they might do. Positioning is also far more important than people realize. Choosing mobs in the back of the questing area, standing so that you have a good view of the main entrances, pulling conservatively as to not overextend yourself, and present too tempting of a target.
What makes PVP really fun is to get better yourself, and then turn the tides on the would be gankers. Or if victory is impossible have some sort of escape plan ready, to escape and embarrass your would be attacker. I do understand that this type of pvp isn't for everyone, world pvp is never balanced, and the sides are never equal, but sometimes you can overcome the odds and it feels awesome. Also returning to a low level area after you get to max and get geared, and then hunt down all the gankers is extremely rewarding, as these players are usually not used to an even battle.
Personally I hold no ill opinion of people who want to play on PVE servers. There's a sense of honor in wanting to only face players of equal measure, where skill (and gear) alone decide the outcome. Also being interrupted when you are trying to do something can be frustrating. Also without the PVP element you can do things you might risk otherwise, such as mass pulling a quest area to aoe everything down.
bcbully and crazkanuk cannot understand what you mean by 90 %.
She is not saying 90% of the time she played she was ganked while solo questing. She is saying 'when' she got ganked it was a gankfest. Can you two understand the difference or not ?
She is of course not saying 90% of the time she was getting ganked that is quite a hyberbole.
Perhaps it would clarify things if she said when I was solo questing and I encountered PvP it was 90% a gankfest. Does that help ?
Presentation. This has always been one of blizzards specialties
Its got a great game world. Azeroth is both fun and interesting, something that MMOs like Rift lack. Part of this goes back to presentation.
Accessibility. This is another big reason.
Combat. It still has the best combat of its kind.
PvP. of all the games that are mainly PvE but have some PvP as well, WoW has the most fun PvP. A lot of this is because of the combat as well as the classes.
Raiding. It still has some of the best tuned, most challenging raiding out there, and it also has stupid easy, annoying raiding for people that want that sort of thing too. One of the most memorably difficult non WoW raids was Rift's Akylios raid, and WoW's current boss at the time, Heroic Ragnaros, was just as difficult.
It of course has some glaring issues (most notably a severe lack of group content challenge), but it does a lot of things better than its competition.
I tried WOW today, after about 6 years of not playing it. I only lasted a couple of hours sadly. So much has changed, which isnt a bad thing it just feels empty and bland with 'pick 10 things' constantly at the beginning.
The graphical updates of the characters does look much better though.
(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')
Yeah, and I think that if that's the case, it's actually pretty accurate. I'm almost never ganked when in a group. However, if I'm running around on my own, someone will inevitably camp me. It's just a matter of time. So I'll /dance, /cry, /rude till the cows come home. Or I'll hop on an alt that's a higher level than they are and camp them, lol.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Sorry to derail the thread again, but I have to ask Nadia, what the hell is your point??
Someone 10 levels higher stomped on you when you were alone? Geezus! I never saw that coming!
Hell I don't PvP, but I f I was 10 levels higher and saw you questing alone, I would stomp on you too.
Oh hello Nadia, I see you are 10 levels below me and questing alone. I guess I will just let you go about your business, since this would be a terribly unfair fight. Have a nice day!
I will never understand the PvP mentality.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
It's not the general PvP mentality, imo. There is a type of person who really just enjoys making people suffer in-game. I'll have people camp me for 15 or 20 minutes sometimes. Longer if I didn't lose interest in getting ganked. I really don't get it either. Less skilled players? Looking to assert themselves as mighty?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Why do you think they do it? What are your thoughts on the matter? Why do you want to know?
Results speak for themselves.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
well, of cors i can just talk for myself here, but:
* solid and interesting story line
* nice and fluent combat (maybe WoW's biggest plus, no other game EVER reached that reactivity)
* nice world layout / -design
* amazing engine (maybe the same as point 2 and 3, but it HAS to be included here to make it more obvious)
and it's biggest plus
* my guild playing it
* good endgame (yes, i love raiding, get over it)
i play WoW since it's release in the same guild, on the same server and within the same 2 characters (my guild needed a reliable tank, so i switched from rogue to monk lately), getting those people to move to another game takes some SERIOUS work and energy i couldn't be arsed investing so far.
while i've beem playing WoW, i tested out most of the other mmos, including wildstar, guildwars 2, TSW, ToR, Aion and some others, but NONE of those could offer a at least similiar gaming experience to WoW.
whatever blizz does, they do it perfect. you don't like it? well, hf playing those other mmos
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
i apologize for the detraction - you are correct, it's an offtopic discussion
I also agree that ganking is not the general PVP mentality
i should have left my comment as
any mmo with PVP servers offers similar functionality to WOWs wpvp
EQ2 fan sites
Virtually everything. Where I see others much better is only in two areas. Fully voiced dialogs in questing from Swtor (but otherwise great questing in Wow) and virtually limitless multiple builds from Rift (that "dual" spec we waited for so long is ... just better then nothing).
Only thing that disappointed me really a lot, is that abomination of new models I hope they redo from scratch. Otherwise will stay indifinetively with old models. We all wanted more resolution not TOTAL CHANGE TO VERY LOOK OF OUR ALTS! I would not bother so much if I would start all my alts from scratch.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I m with you 100%
I play WoW since start and the last 5 years i m in the same guild. In the meantime i played Warhammer-AoC-Rift-SWTOR-GW2-WildStar. My biggest problem in these games was that after a couple of months, almost everyone i knew in game quits. Same with ESO. I never bought it, but after a month or so 90% of my guild quit it also.
I m not saying these games are bad or worse than wow or anything else. Some of them loved them, but tbh WoW offers some things that most of them cant and first of all stability.
Stability in the overall population. Even when pop drops under 7m its still a huge number.
Stability for your guild and friends as you always will find ppl to recruit and friends to play.
Stability about the future of the game. It successfully exists and it will continue for long and it will also remain p2p for long too.
I can say many more things about wow, but having ALWAYS friends to play with, without changing guilds like shirts, are some very important reasons to play the game.
Btw the only game i feel the same as wow is EvE.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
I am with Picard.
Add the above mentioned stability in population and friends play and you nailed it.
You know these days when I want to play an mmorpg I play WOW and am done with seeking alternatives.
That's not to say I don't love these RPG games, but you really can only play ONE mmorpg decently and I lost enough time by trying others over the past 8 years.
I divide my time now between WOW and some other games (NON mmorpg's) like Fantasy boardgames, some card games and very few selected console and PC games mostly with a complete different theme than WOW, to avoid being burnt out by any game really (Sherlock Holmes or Heavy Rain come to mind).
I have been aging lately and I simply attach much more value to games that last, whatever the platform of board, card or computer games.
And frankly Blizzard, while also making games I completely dislike, is the old Avalon Hill or Fantasy Flight of PC games like forever. It is a pity they limit themsleves to "gamer games" avoiding at all price historical or realistic games.
I don't agree with the theme parc of Jean Luc though, I think it is silly to talk about theme parcs, you simply have good games and bad ones.
For me it's the MIX of lots of GOOD (not best) elements:
1). STORY
The Warcraft universe is expansive and well put together. The story in TSW is heaps better, yes, but that game doesn't have the player base to support gameplay.
2). PLAYERS
I can find a group for a dungeon in 10 seconds...awesome. I do admit I play a healer/tank tho, so I might be biased. I will admit that healing in SWTOR is aslo quick-queue for example (not so if you're a tank). FFXIV is the other way around!
3). DUNGEONS
WoW has very good (dare I say "the best") dungeons and raids. And I'm all for that. I don't group up when in the Open world, but 90% of my game time is dungeons and raids, so...yeah...Wildstar has equally good, sometimes better, raids/dungeons but there is no one to play them with (or there are soooooo many bugs it's stupid).
4). POLISH/no game-breaking bugs
What would you expect from such an old game? There are very few bugs, and no game-breaking stuff (and a lot of fixes come really quick).