Poll: Why does everyone have to be THE hero?

PioneerStew · November 2014

I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

I would prefer to be a member of an army, who may perform a few heroic actions, but is in no way the sole saviour of the mmo world. There are several reasons for this: -

Everyone cannot be THE hero in an MMO. It is patently absurd.

One person cannot be THE hero in an MMO. It will alienate other players and create a situation where a single story arc cannot be shared by many players.

From a narrative point of view, viewing events from a slightly more remote position enables more freedom in creating an interesting and immersive story with twists that blind-side the player; largely due to their remoteness from the central characters.

So I have created a poll. Please share your thoughts.

Sovrath · November 2014

Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

PioneerStew · November 2014

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.

Yamota · November 2014

Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.

Agreed. Imagine a LOTR movie where there are 100 Aragons running parallel quests for the ring but some guy tells you that: "Hey just pretend there is one of them, ignore the rest". How many tickets do you think that movie will sell before being laughed out of the studio?

MMORPGs definitely need to start creating quests which makes sense in an MMORPG world. For some reason the devs cant be arsed to do that.

Sovrath · November 2014

Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.

again, you are the only one on the quest. You just can't let go and accept that (whether you think it's unfortunate, good, bad, etc) this is the "single player portion" of the game.

You are the one in the solo cut scene (or however the quest manifests itself) being addressed.

It's a solo portion of the game.

If there were 500 other players who have completed the quest before you then you and 499 of those players wouldn't have been sent on the quest.

kjempff · November 2014

Dear devs, free your mmorpg from narrative; embrace your inner gamer and make games, not interactive stories. Do this and you shall be rewarded.. Nothing more to say.

Gestankfaust · November 2014

There can be more than one hero in the world....ya think?

PioneerStew · November 2014

Originally posted by Gestankfaust
There can be more than one hero in the world....ya think?

Yes, there can be many heroes, I am talking about the mmo stories where you are THE hero.

PioneerStew · November 2014

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.

again, you are the only one on the quest. You just can't let go and accept that (whether you think it's unfortunate, good, bad, etc) this is the "single player portion" of the game.

You are the one in the solo cut scene (or however the quest manifests itself) being addressed.

It's a solo portion of the game.

If there were 500 other players who have completed the quest before you then you and 499 of those players wouldn't have been sent on the quest.

Well, maybe you are just able to suspend disbelief a lot, lot further than me. What you say is fine in a SP game, but an mmo should recognise that there are many players.

Gestankfaust · November 2014

Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Gestankfaust
There can be more than one hero in the world....ya think?

Yes, there can be many heroes, I am talking about the mmo stories where you are THE hero.

So...you made a thread about the minority of MMO that do this then? I think I can name one...GW2. Prolly more...but now many

Sovrath · November 2014

Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.

again, you are the only one on the quest. You just can't let go and accept that (whether you think it's unfortunate, good, bad, etc) this is the "single player portion" of the game.

You are the one in the solo cut scene (or however the quest manifests itself) being addressed.

It's a solo portion of the game.

If there were 500 other players who have completed the quest before you then you and 499 of those players wouldn't have been sent on the quest.

Well, maybe you are just able to suspend disbelief a lot, lot further than me.

That very well might be the case but maybe I can offer something that might resonate with you more.

These are theme park games (I am assuming you are referring to theme park games) where the players line up, get on their ride and take their single player turn.

My bet is that you are thinking of the mmo as 'a world' where all the players occupy and affect the world as per their disposition. Some are farmers, some fighters, some conquer, some trade etc.

Therefore any activity that happens in the world can, on various levels, affect all players depending on the role they adopt.

that's "a world" mmo. Some guild takes a castle and you and other guilds make deals, try to attack them try to get others to attack them, try to take resources, underbid, etc.

Everyone is a part of one great "thing".

but themepark mmo's are rides. You sidle up to the ticket seller, buy your ticket and experience the ride that quest giver has offered. Nothing you do in conjunction with that quest giver will ever affect any other player.

They have the right to sidle up to the same quest giver and take that ride or forgo it and do something else.

It's all about context.

Theme park mmo's offer single player experiences peppered with a variety of social activities.

PioneerStew · November 2014

Originally posted by Gestankfaust
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Gestankfaust
There can be more than one hero in the world....ya think?

Yes, there can be many heroes, I am talking about the mmo stories where you are THE hero.

So...you made a thread about the minority of MMO that do this then? I think I can name one...GW2. Prolly more...but now many

Really? Almost every mmo with a story-mode. Are you serious?

PioneerStew · November 2014

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.

again, you are the only one on the quest. You just can't let go and accept that (whether you think it's unfortunate, good, bad, etc) this is the "single player portion" of the game.

You are the one in the solo cut scene (or however the quest manifests itself) being addressed.

It's a solo portion of the game.

If there were 500 other players who have completed the quest before you then you and 499 of those players wouldn't have been sent on the quest.

Well, maybe you are just able to suspend disbelief a lot, lot further than me.

That very well might be the case but maybe I can offer something that might resonate with you more.

These are theme park games (I am assuming you are referring to theme park games) where the players line up, get on their ride and take their single player turn.

My bet is that you are thinking of the mmo as 'a world' where all the players occupy and affect the world as per their disposition. Some are farmers, some fighters, some conquer, some trade etc.

Therefore any activity that happens in the world can, on various levels, affect all players depending on the role they adopt.

that's "a world" mmo. Some guild takes a castle and you and other guilds make deals, try to attack them try to get others to attack them, try to take resources, underbid, etc.

Everyone is a part of one great "thing".

but themepark mmo's are rides. You sidle up to the ticket seller, buy your ticket and experience the ride that quest giver has offered. Nothing you do in conjunction with that quest giver will ever affect any other player.

They have the right to sidle up to the same quest giver and take that ride or forgo it and do something else.

It's all about context.

Theme park mmo's offer single player experiences peppered with a variety of social activities.

No, not really.

Take this as an example. You play a themepark MMO and role an archer. You are an archer in an army who plays a central role in whatever over-arching story carries through the MMO.

The protagonists play out their roles, and due to your remoteness from them you are not party to all discussions. This enables the writers to introduce some circumstances out of left field, some twists, some blind sides or some betrayals that otherwise you would have, in all reasonableness, seen coming.

It enables more freedom in the narrative structure.

You are also not left with the absurdity of being THE hero, knowing that every other player you have interacted with is also THE hero.

Get where I am coming form?

artemisentr4 · November 2014

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.

Agreed. Imagine a LOTR movie where there are 100 Aragons running parallel quests for the ring but some guy tells you that: "Hey just pretend there is one of them, ignore the rest". How many tickets do you think that movie will sell before being laughed out of the studio?

MMORPGs definitely need to start creating quests which makes sense in an MMORPG world. For some reason the devs cant be arsed to do that.

Actually it would be like having 100 individual movie screens in a single theater watching one Aragon running a single quest for the ring. It's just your own ability to take a hero quest as your own or as the same for everyone. I like it with a story line for the individual. With group quests for groups. But we each like what we like. That won't change.

iixviiiix · November 2014

How you sell RPG game in nowadays market without let player being hero ?

I always say nowadays MMORPGs are Singleplayer RPG disguised with instance multiplayer option .

And singleplayer RPG need player being hero to sell .

PioneerStew · November 2014

Originally posted by artemisentr4
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.

Agreed. Imagine a LOTR movie where there are 100 Aragons running parallel quests for the ring but some guy tells you that: "Hey just pretend there is one of them, ignore the rest". How many tickets do you think that movie will sell before being laughed out of the studio?

MMORPGs definitely need to start creating quests which makes sense in an MMORPG world. For some reason the devs cant be arsed to do that.

Actually it would be like having 100 individual movie screens in a single theater watching one Aragon running a single quest for the ring. It's just your own ability to take a hero quest as your own or as the same for everyone. I like it with a story line for the individual. With group quests for groups. But we each like what we like. That won't change.

I'd say the difference is between being a passive observer or an active participant and Yamota is correct on this one.

Sovrath · November 2014

Originally posted by PioneerStew

No, not really.

Take this as an example. You play a themepark MMO and role an archer. You are an archer in an army who plays a central role in whatever over-arching story carries through the MMO.

The protagonists play out their roles, and due to your remoteness from them you are not party to all discussions. This enables the writers to introduce some circumstances out of left field, some twists, some blind sides or some betrayals that otherwise you would have, in all reasonableness, seen coming.

It enables more freedom in the narrative structure.

You are also not left with the absurdity of being THE hero, knowing that every other player you have interacted with is also THE hero.

Get where I am coming form?

Are you arguing preference or are you arguing what these games are actually doing.

Because this seems like you are arguing preference in how they present their quest. I'm saying the current situation in theme park games are that they are social games with solo game play which is why you are not the 500th person in the world to do the quest as 499 people prior to you who have done the quest have not affected the world or changed one thing for any other player.

As a matter of fact, you wouldn't know what they had done unless you came across the quest yourself.

Single player game play.

What you are saying is that "this is the better way" which, for a game that allows for players to affect each other might be the case.

Again, this is just you not being able to set aside the fact that you know other players have done this before. An extreme example is whether it bothers you that I, playing skyrim, have killed Alduin as well as thousands of other people.

Sure, those are single player games but we all have done it and talking at the water cooler you will know we all have done it. The only difference with these mmo's is that players are occupying the same "landscape" and are allowed some interaction.

AlBQuirky · November 2014

There were 4 choices that fit my "style."
1) I want to perform heroic acts but not necessarily be the hero
2) I do not need to be the hero
3) I think that MMOs preclude one person being the hero
4) I am happy to be a bit-part player

I chose #2 (I do not need to be the hero) as the most fitting

PioneerStew · November 2014

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
There were 4 choices that fit my "style."
1) I want to perform heroic acts but not necessarily be the hero
2) I do not need to be the hero
3) I think that MMOs preclude one person being the hero
4) I am happy to be a bit-part player

I chose #2 (I do not need to be the hero) as the most fitting

Yes, I did repeat myself a bit in that poll.

AlBQuirky · November 2014

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.
Because you are not all the hero.I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.
I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.
again, you are the only one on the quest. You just can't let go and accept that (whether you think it's unfortunate, good, bad, etc) this is the "single player portion" of the game.You are the one in the solo cut scene (or however the quest manifests itself) being addressed.It's a solo portion of the game.If there were 500 other players who have completed the quest before you then you and 499 of those players wouldn't have been sent on the quest.

While at the quest giver, I can imagine other players seeking something else, but when I find myself also competing with them for the same quest objectives, then it gets tougher for me

Also, if the MMO decides to put a "Title" on the character's nameplate, then all immersion is lost for me.

Using Wizard101 as an example, there are titles a player can use for their characters as they play through the game. Once the "original" main villain (more villains have come with updates), a player can use the title "Savior of The Spiral." When I see 100's of other players so titled, it loses all importance for me.

Mensur · November 2014

I really dont have an opinion on that matter..why..its because for me its all about the story line and the world..as long as i can get lost in the story line and fall in love with the NPCs and Main Quest NPCs i realy dont care.

I remember maxing out in ARR..never in my life have i felt soo epic!

Varex12 · November 2014

I voted YES.

Why? Because it's a freakin' ROLE-PLAYING GAME. I play a role. And the role I choose to play is a badass. If I want to play an everyday common man I'll go back to real life.

For you folks that just want to rp a face in the crowd: Get some ambition.

GeezerGamer · November 2014

The break down in all this occurs at endgame where you are supposed to be the "badass" hero who saved the world but, really you just manage to break into the bottom of the progression pyramid. It's kind of a story shock if you will.

It really does break immersion.

Sovrath · November 2014

Originally posted by GeezerGamer
The break down in all this occurs at endgame where you are supposed to be the "badass" hero who saved the world but, really you just manage to break into the bottom of the progression pyramid. It's kind of a story shock if you will.

It really does break immersion.

Yeah, for my taste it's bad design.

Scot · November 2014

Because depending on the gaming house a decision was made about five to seven years ago to do just that. At that stage the playerbase they wanted MMOs to attract were console players. So MMO's were made more like the RPG's solo games that console players and PC solo games players understood.

Firstly MMO's got more solo play and things you traditionally got in MMOs like housing and roleplaying support were sidelined. Around the time Fable (2004) pushed 'you as the hero' in solo games to a new height, gaming companies looked at transposing this to MMOs.

It did not matter that being 'the hero' in a MMO makes no sense, it is what console and solo RPG players liked in solo games so it was transposed to MMOs. After all they made multiplayer MMOs more and more solo, so something like it being odd to be 'The hero' among a mob of other 'The heroes' was hardly going to be an issue.

immodium · November 2014

Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PioneerStew
I find it slightly absurd on those occasions in an MMO when you are queuing with several other players at an NPC, having completed the same quest-line, to be told that you are THE hero.

Because you are not all the hero.

I realize this is hard for some players to understand but when you are on the main quest and you are referred to as "the hero" then "YOU" are the only one on the quest and the only hero. Role playing wise they are all asking the NPC something different. Directions to the Tomb, where's that shady guy who took my wallet, who is that cute elf over there, etc.

The only reason why you think you and 500 other players are on the same quest is because you are not willing to just let go and immerse yourself in the story being told.

I realise this is hard for you to understand, but when a player is told they are THE hero for completing a quest several thousand of players have completed before them it breaks all immersion and is slightly absurd.

again, you are the only one on the quest. You just can't let go and accept that (whether you think it's unfortunate, good, bad, etc) this is the "single player portion" of the game.

You are the one in the solo cut scene (or however the quest manifests itself) being addressed.

It's a solo portion of the game.

If there were 500 other players who have completed the quest before you then you and 499 of those players wouldn't have been sent on the quest.

Well, maybe you are just able to suspend disbelief a lot, lot further than me. What you say is fine in a SP game, but an mmo should recognise that there are many players.

Why is it fine in a SP game? Unless you're the only one who bought the game, a lot of other gamers will be running the same hero story aswell.

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Poll: Why does everyone have to be THE hero?

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Poll: Why does everyone have to be THE hero?

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